HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Arizona Coyotes
Notices

1 EVG in past 4 games

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-13-2009, 12:32 AM
  #1
Guest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,245
vCash: 500
1 EVG in past 4 games

I'm not sure that it deserves it's own thread, but the past two shutouts and the game in Buffalo strike me as concerns with this teams offense.

In the past 4 games (@PIT, @BUF, CBJ, @SJS) the Coyotes have one even strength goal. To a lesser extent, the Coyotes only have 6 even strength goals in 5 games played this young season.

Tippet seems to be juggling the lines trying to find the right chemistry, which is appropriate, but short of the power play there has been almost no offense from this team.

Lombardi & Pyatt being out hasn't helped, but I doubt they figure in anything more than 1 goal at this point if they didn't miss their games.

Move Mueller to center? Recall someone like Porter? Let them find their own chemistry and don't panic until the losses start to mount?

I see this team having a deceptively nice start to the season like last year, but the team on the ice not actually being as good as the record indicates. Even though the power play seems improved the Coyotes are in the bottom third through 5 games. They are middle of the pack for the penalty kill, and if not for incredible goaltending they are probably looking at a worse record.

Guest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 03:07 AM
  #2
white_tiger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Phoenix
Country: United States
Posts: 1,473
vCash: 500
I would be concerned if they weren't getting scoring chances. But they are. In time they will start finishing them.

white_tiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 03:23 AM
  #3
yakko
Registered User
 
yakko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northern California
Country: United States
Posts: 3,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Converse View Post
Move Mueller to center? Recall someone like Porter? Let them find their own chemistry and don't panic until the losses start to mount?
I don't think any of these things will help. There are two keys to scoring goals on a regular basis against NHL goalies.

1 - Get shots with the goalie moving laterally.

As I mentioned in another thread, the Coyotes seem completely unable to control cross ice passes. Most NHL goalies can do a good job of covering the net if they are square to the shot. The holes open when a goalie has to move side to side. If you can't either one time a pass (which is hard because it requires a perfect pass and perfect timing) or at least cup the puck and shoot in one motion (any player considered offensive minded ought to be able to do this) you are going to have trouble scoring. The Coyotes are terrible at doing anything productive with a pass that isn't just a touch pass out in front that they can skate into. That might generate transition, and even shots, but it will not generate a lot of goals.

2 - Get traffic

If you can't get a goalie to move laterally by passing (the Coyotes can't) then make him move to look around a screen and make him move to cover rebounds. The Coyotes have done an okay job of getting traffic at all the wrong times. When the puck is in the high slot or at a bad angle, they might get traffic. The Coyotes need to get traffic when the puck goes out to the point, because it is getting out there a lot. The defense needs a free pass to shoot when there is a lane, screen or not. Maybe someone can get a stick on the puck off of a rebound if there wasn't traffic on the shot. Maybe the forwards will work harder to get into the slot if they know the defense is going to shoot instead of just helping the team cycle.


Quote:
I see this team having a deceptively nice start to the season like last year, but the team on the ice not actually being as good as the record indicates.
You and I agree there. I have posted quite a few flaws in the Coyotes game so far and they have not played much. Those flaws are not subtle problems or rare problems. They are basic hockey skills.

The sad thing is that the Coyotes seem to have picked up the hard part quickly. Their positioning is more than solid in all three zones early in the season. They have picked up the new system really fast. That is remarkable and I am quite impressed.

The Coyotes are failing on the basics that they should have been learning since they first started playing hockey. Maybe they just need to get more comfortable in the system so they can think less? Maybe they need more drills on the basics? I don't know, but I know it is disturbing to watch them play pro league positioning and team play but rec league basic skills at best.

yakko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 08:54 AM
  #4
Waldo
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,878
vCash: 500
playing defensive

I think they myt be trying too hard to play great defensive hockey at the expense of offense. Once the get more comfortable with that maybe they will relax more in the offensive zone. Everyone is looking to impress Tippet. The players that need the ice time that we hope results in goals are Boedker, Hanzal,Mueller, and Korpikoski.

Waldo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 09:15 AM
  #5
PhoPhan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,223
vCash: 500
I'll agree that, at 3-2 with only 11 goals scored, the Coyotes are a bit of a paper tiger, though allowing only 7 goals and even just having a positive goal differential are positives. But this team genuinely looks different than they did last year.

In close games last year, I always felt nervous, watching the other team get opportunity after opportunity, a goal seeming inevitable. In those situations, the Coyotes only scored on lucky bounces.

This year, though, the games have seemed a lot more balanced. Last night in particular, I never got that, "Oh, god, San Jose is going to score on this shift" feeling I got all the time last year.

PhoPhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 09:30 AM
  #6
CitizenCoyote
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,610
vCash: 500
It's a very small sample size, and 4 of the 5 games played have been on road ice.

Before I concluded it was a problem, I'd need to have a comparison of good scoring chances versus other teams in the league, not just a comparison of goals scored. If the same trend exists after 10 games, I'll start to worry.

A goal prevented is as good as a goal scored too.

CitizenCoyote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 10:13 AM
  #7
Guest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,245
vCash: 500
There have been some scoring chances, but I don't think it's enough to justify the cold streak on offense. If they were getting tons of scoring chances and just not finishing then I would say it'll wear off, but I don't think the scoring chances are that much improved in quantity compared to years past for this team.

I too have been a little disturbed about the fundamentals for this team. I swear Jovo can't take a pass without settling it down then shooting it. I'm not sure I've seen a single one-timer executed correctly from them yet.

I do think there are bright spots. Some combo of the Czech's will find the right chemistry and stick together for a line. I'm personally thinking that will involve a combo of Prucha, Lang, Hanzal and Vrbata. I'd like to see a line of Doan, Upshall and Pyatt (I know, no center), as well as Lombardi, Boedker, Upshall.

I think Yandle is poised to breakout offensively, much like he was to start last season, once this team starts to bury the pucks. He's quickly moving up the ranks of defensemen on this team.

Despite the slow start offensively I would like to see some more consistency in the line combo's to start the season. Let them stay together long enough to build on something. I've been a bit annoyed with the early line juggling due to the Gretzky nightmares, but Tippet gets a pass...for now.

Guest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 10:37 AM
  #8
AnalogMan
Moderator
 
AnalogMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cave Creek, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 8,034
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
I'll agree that, at 3-2 with only 11 goals scored, the Coyotes are a bit of a paper tiger, though allowing only 7 goals and even just having a positive goal differential are positives. But this team genuinely looks different than they did last year.

In close games last year, I always felt nervous, watching the other team get opportunity after opportunity, a goal seeming inevitable. In those situations, the Coyotes only scored on lucky bounces.

This year, though, the games have seemed a lot more balanced. Last night in particular, I never got that, "Oh, god, San Jose is going to score on this shift" feeling I got all the time last year.
This ^^^^^^^

I kept wanting to feel like, "Oh crap, here we go again." But it just doesn't happen. I'm looking at this like the defense is ahead of the offense and we will start scoring. Not 3+ goals a night on average, but the goals are going to come as the players get more comfortable with how each moves along the ice, and the Tippett offensive system develops.

AnalogMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 10:39 AM
  #9
zyllyx
STH Hipster
 
zyllyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Peoria
Country: United States
Posts: 3,177
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Converse View Post
Tippet gets a pass...for now.

zyllyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 11:07 AM
  #10
Dolemite
The one...the only..
 
Dolemite's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 37,512
vCash: 50
You guys need to wait until the 1/3 point in the season. The team is still coming together and getting some chemistry. If you noticed from the game last night they had some great offensive opportunities but never connected. This is just a lack of the Coyotes being familiar with the other players on the team. You'll all get a better feel for what this team is capable of doing by the 1/3 point in the season.

__________________
http://thenhlhotlist.azvibe.com/
Follow along on Twitter: http://twitter.com/azvibesports
Dolemite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 11:11 AM
  #11
YotesFan
Registered User
 
YotesFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North Phoenix
Country: United States
Posts: 2,403
vCash: 500
We're playing great 5 on 5 positional defensive hockey. As long as the other team is not scoring it's not going to cost us games. We have chances and good shots but nothing is going in yet. Those chances will turn into goals, just a matter of time. As long as we keep our mindset of playing great D we'll be fine.
Bryz has made timely saves, and Lombardi being out as hurt our attack. But otherwise I think we are doing good at this point, just wait till Doan gets going, we all know he starts slow.

YotesFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 11:11 AM
  #12
indczn
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,435
vCash: 500
Theres really no reason to worry about the offense yet. 1st game against LA we scored. Pit is a tough team, and we played them on the road. Buff was back to back on the road, and the team looked tired. Columbus is a good team, with a good defensive system. We played them early in the year last year before they started playing well. It was the home opener and the coyotes came out trying to hard, and it showed. Squeezing sticks, bad passing, etc. After they settled down, we outplayed CBJ, and had chances. Then SJ on the road again. We should be encouraged by how much NOTHING marluea, Thornton, Heatley had the whole game.

Lets not forget that we have improved on areas that have needed to improve, given the little downtime weve had between games. Post LA - defensive coverage/PK improved alot. Its way to early to be panicking over short term trends. At least we can expect to improve on areas of weakness, as opposed to during the Gretzky era.

indczn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 11:14 AM
  #13
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 41,228
vCash: 500
San Jose was averaging four goals a game, coming into last night. There is only one way we had any hope of stealing a point from them, and it wasn't trying to win eight to seven. We had to Minnesota Wild them. We did, and it paid off. Yay, two points!

rt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 11:55 AM
  #14
Guest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,245
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post


After all of Gretzky's line juggling you are happy to sit here and see Tippet do the same thing to the same extent? I think it's perfectly reasonable to express my annoyance with it now, yet cite that I'll let it pass as long as it doesn't continue. If he's doing the same thing 2-3 months from now, then I will be pissed and I don't think I will be the only one.

Guest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 12:02 PM
  #15
yakko
Registered User
 
yakko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northern California
Country: United States
Posts: 3,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waldo View Post
I think they myt be trying too hard to play great defensive hockey at the expense of offense. Once the get more comfortable with that maybe they will relax more in the offensive zone. Everyone is looking to impress Tippet. The players that need the ice time that we hope results in goals are Boedker, Hanzal,Mueller, and Korpikoski.
I don't know about trying too hard, but this early in the season I might buy that their minds are very focused on positioning and defensive play which is distracting them from making basic plays offensively. I hope that is true and they can get more comfortable with the defensive game, settle down and make those basic plays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YotesFan View Post
As long as the other team is not scoring it's not going to cost us games.
That is not a good strategy. Bryzgalov cannot and should not be relied upon to get a shutout every game. He currently has a 0.98 GAA and a .960 SV%. I really like Bryzgalov and have for some time, but those stats are not realistic. He cannot keep that up.

Quote:
We have chances and good shots but nothing is going in yet.
There have been very few chances and even fewer good shots. Don't let their shot totals fool you, the vast majority of the Coyotes shots are not good scoring chances. Good scoring chances are coming few and far in between.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
San Jose was averaging four goals a game, coming into last night. There is only one way we had any hope of stealing a point from them, and it wasn't trying to win eight to seven. We had to Minnesota Wild them. We did, and it paid off. Yay, two points!
Don't get me wrong. I am very impressed with the Coyotes positioning and transition play. They are doing a really amazing job playing the trap and executing their defensive coverage. The Coyotes are also doing a great job of combining defensive positioning in transition and hand eye coordination to break up a lot of passes with good poke checks, good sweep checks and even some nice interceptions. I can't remember seeing a team put those two things together quite as well as the Coyotes have thus far this season.

I am frustrated by the offense. It was terrible against Columbus, but that happens to every team now and then, especially against a good defensive team like the Blue Jackets. It was actually more frustrating against San Jose because they actually looked like they were executing some plays and getting into position in the offensive zone. They actually had Nabokov moving and even completely out of position at times. If they could just catch a pass and shoot they might have won that game in regulation. Seeing NHL players be completely unable to handle a good pass on a regular basis is sad.

yakko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 12:14 PM
  #16
zyllyx
STH Hipster
 
zyllyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Peoria
Country: United States
Posts: 3,177
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Converse View Post


After all of Gretzky's line juggling you are happy to sit here and see Tippet do the same thing to the same extent? I think it's perfectly reasonable to express my annoyance with it now, yet cite that I'll let it pass as long as it doesn't continue. If he's doing the same thing 2-3 months from now, then I will be pissed and I don't think I will be the only one.
The guy's had the job for TWO WEEKS, dude. It's not like he's Barry Melrose. He barely knows these guys by name.

Right now what Tippett is doing is evaluating how different players play together in a game environment. He has said several times that when he finds guys with chemistry he wants to keep them together - but he can't find that chemistry in practice situations only.

If he's still doing it 2-3 months from now, then I'll be upset too. And maybe my was exaggerated... but even given the recent trend of perplexing pessimism I just wasn't ready to see a comment like that 14 days into Tippett's Coyotes coaching career.

zyllyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 12:17 PM
  #17
zyllyx
STH Hipster
 
zyllyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Peoria
Country: United States
Posts: 3,177
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by yakko View Post
I am frustrated by the offense. It was terrible against Columbus, but that happens to every team now and then, especially against a good defensive team like the Blue Jackets. It was actually more frustrating against San Jose because they actually looked like they were executing some plays and getting into position in the offensive zone. They actually had Nabokov moving and even completely out of position at times. If they could just catch a pass and shoot they might have won that game in regulation. Seeing NHL players be completely unable to handle a good pass on a regular basis is sad.
Sad, yes, but not unprecedented with this team. The players who have been in our system for the past year or two have a lot of bad habits to unlearn, and I think what Tippett is doing is trying to patch the hole in the hull before starting to bail out the water. You can get more aggressive on the offense once you're sure you have a defense that can handle mistakes, and that seems to me to be what Tippett (and Burke) is working on systematically at the moment.

zyllyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 12:21 PM
  #18
yakko
Registered User
 
yakko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northern California
Country: United States
Posts: 3,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
the recent trend of perplexing pessimism
Are you serious? Just because people have constructive criticisms of the team's play early in the season does not equal pessimism at all. You should really consider taking some analysis at face value instead of equating analysis of early problems as pessimism. Some of us would rather have thoughtful conversations about the team's play instead of coming online and playing cheerleader.

I do enough defending of the Coyotes to people that are not fans. I want to have a thoughtful conversation with people that are fans already.

yakko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 12:24 PM
  #19
yakko
Registered User
 
yakko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northern California
Country: United States
Posts: 3,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
Sad, yes, but not unprecedented with this team. The players who have been in our system for the past year or two have a lot of bad habits to unlearn, and I think what Tippett is doing is trying to patch the hole in the hull before starting to bail out the water.
Maybe you're right. I have already said that if that is the case, so be it. What ever the coaching staff is teaching in terms of positioning and defensive play is working. I will continue to be frustrated with the offense until it is resolved though.

Quote:
You can get more aggressive on the offense once you're sure you have a defense that can handle mistakes, and that seems to me to be what Tippett (and Burke) is working on systematically at the moment.
I am not talking about being more aggressive. I want to see basic execution. I would be scared to see this team try to get more aggressive as sloppy as they are in the offensive zone right now.

yakko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 12:39 PM
  #20
zyllyx
STH Hipster
 
zyllyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Peoria
Country: United States
Posts: 3,177
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by yakko View Post
Some of us would rather have thoughtful conversations about the team's play instead of coming online and playing cheerleader.
I'm not being a Pollyanna. I just want to see some perspective around here. If the problems being discussed are still around in a couple of weeks then people should get antsy about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yakko View Post
I am not talking about being more aggressive. I want to see basic execution. I would be scared to see this team try to get more aggressive as sloppy as they are in the offensive zone right now.
By "aggression" I don't mean to pile willy-nilly into the offensive zone or try to play an Ovechkin-style game. I think part of the problem with the offense is a fundamental tentativeness - "Is this going to work?" - and more often than not it leads to the yips, particularly with the younger players. To me a big part of the offensive issue is getting the confidence instilled in the players to press the opposing players harder and take advantage of quality chances when they present themselves instead of hesitating.

As far as basic execution goes, I already see an improvement over last year - a big one. Are they where they should be ideally? No, but they're getting there. Considering the context - off-season rust, new coaches, new system, etc. - I think they're making steady progress. As long as they continue to do so I'll continue to be optimistic.

zyllyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 12:57 PM
  #21
ShootThePuckCoyotes
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Phoenix
Country: United States
Posts: 2,208
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
I'm not being a Pollyanna. I just want to see some perspective around here. If the problems being discussed are still around in a couple of weeks then people should get antsy about it.
This is a discussion board. If everyone agreed all the time there would be no discussion. I just think some people are getting tired of you calling them out every time they offer "their" perspective of things.

ShootThePuckCoyotes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 01:09 PM
  #22
Sindiggy
Go Desert Dogs
 
Sindiggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 2,475
vCash: 500
We all remember what happened after the break last year...we'd watch game after game knowing that the Yotes wouldn't score and if Bryz let in anything it was going to be a loss...

This year's team is different in that I truly believe we're getting scoring chances, but as stated by many, we're not executing...the difference has been the opponents we have played.

LA/Pitts do not imploy the hard 'trapping style' defense, so our transistion game looked more impressive against those teams than we did against equally talented 'trapping' teams in Buffalo/Columbus/SanJose.

However, we still carried the play to Columbus/SanJose which is a "key takeaway". Tyson Nash in all his wisdom yesterday finally said something useful. We're not getting tape to tape passes on the PP, and on 5x5 we're not catching the pass with ability to shoot. Just the slightest delay from controlling a pass can "kill" a scoring oppotunity as witnessed yesterday. The good news is that we're getting them unlike last year.

One of the only negative things so far about Tippett is his total lack of faith in Boedker...I think with Boedker's speed and stick-handling, he'd be perfect for the wing on the PP...but that is just me...and lets just retire Jovo from the PP all together. Give the time to Aucoin and Yandle.

Sindiggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 01:09 PM
  #23
zyllyx
STH Hipster
 
zyllyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Peoria
Country: United States
Posts: 3,177
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootThePuckCoyotes View Post
I just think some people are getting tired of you calling them out every time they offer "their" perspective of things.
I beg your pardon. I wasn't aware that my presence was that toxic. I'll leave y'all to your discussion. Enjoy the rest of the season, folks.

zyllyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 01:16 PM
  #24
Sindiggy
Go Desert Dogs
 
Sindiggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 2,475
vCash: 500
I come in peace...

Fellas, lets stop with the "absolutes"...lets discuss anything and everything...that's what makes these boards "fun and entertaining" to come too, read and participate.

The more ideas the better, the more opinions the better, the more dialogue the better.

'steps off soap-box'
'waves to the crowd of 1'
'retires to begin drinking heavily'

Btw, has anyone ever dreamt about putting "chilly cheese fries" and "megan fox" together? Or is just me


Last edited by Sindiggy: 10-13-2009 at 01:25 PM.
Sindiggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2009, 01:18 PM
  #25
ShootThePuckCoyotes
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Phoenix
Country: United States
Posts: 2,208
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
I beg your pardon. I wasn't aware that my presence was that toxic. I'll leave y'all to your discussion. Enjoy the rest of the season, folks.
Come on now....this is exactly what I was talking about. I was not saying you should go away just that you should let people (our fans) have their opinions. Leave the arguing for the trolls that come on our board.

Edit: BTW I happen to agree with your posts a lot of the time so this isn't about me disagreeing with you just that I like to hear others point of view too.

ShootThePuckCoyotes is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:23 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.