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Old
02-05-2010, 06:47 PM
  #301
Ashe
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Paperwork could of been filed right at the deadline. Might not hear it til tomorrow.

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02-06-2010, 10:14 PM
  #302
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Are you guys going to wait until after the olympic break to work Kari back into the lineup?

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02-06-2010, 11:12 PM
  #303
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Waddell on the post game radio show said the team would NOT carry three goalies for the rest of the season.

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02-06-2010, 11:38 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by LetNoneIn View Post
Waddell on the post game radio show said the team would NOT carry three goalies for the rest of the season.
he did everything short of saying Kari's name in describing who was leaving. One person asked, "are you saying Kari is going to be traded?" Everyone laughed and DW kind of smirked and said, "well the guy who isn't playing is the one to go." He said the team has lost confidence in his ability to be there for them. Nothing about talent and he said Kari was a good person, but...

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02-07-2010, 12:01 AM
  #305
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this will be interesting

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02-07-2010, 12:34 AM
  #306
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Poor Kari, can they give him a chance to see if the surgeries worked at least? I mean, what if he really can perform at his highest level now, consistently?

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02-07-2010, 12:40 AM
  #307
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We have been waiting on Kari for years. It is time to move him. If he live up to his potential elsewhere then so be it. Thrashers have invested enough time in him. Its time to move on.

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02-07-2010, 12:42 AM
  #308
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That is true, but what value can he bring back at this current point in time......(not much)......the only choice is to play him a bit and hope for the best....

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02-07-2010, 02:02 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Chucky17 View Post
he did everything short of saying Kari's name in describing who was leaving. One person asked, "are you saying Kari is going to be traded?" Everyone laughed and DW kind of smirked and said, "well the guy who isn't playing is the one to go." He said the team has lost confidence in his ability to be there for them. Nothing about talent and he said Kari was a good person, but...
Yeah, well goaltending is a brutal job. You stop the puck or you don't, and then you sit. If Lehtonen gets a start and plays up to his ability, that is stops the pucks, you can forget about all the trust stuff and whatever. On the other hand if not he does not he needs to be moved. You don't pay goalies to be nice personalities.

The same goes with Pavelec and Moose. Moose is concistent and occasionally gets hot, which is exactly what a good backup does and what he is, nothing more, nothing less. Number one goalie should demoralize opponents, leading to too complicated plays and thus getting the entire team off their game. Basically number one goalie inspires fear. Moose doesn't, and Pavelec certainly does not either.

Pavs has great leg spead, but his hands aren't that great and his positioning is faulty. Which leaves him vulnerable to good high shots. Lehtonen actually has some of the same issues, but he is so much better at covering the net he doesn't have to make that mancy fancy saves. Anyway, teams know how to beat Pavelec, or at least think they too, which is the key. They should be scratching their heads. Pavs may very well get better over time, those are things that can be fixed, but number one goalie on a team hoping to go anywhere is not a trainee spot. He needs to be a backup now, and if his ego can't deal with it he needs to be moved.

Only other consideration not strictly related to actual goaltending is compatibility with the defence. Most goalies are bit of both, but there are roughly two types of goalies: those that cover the net (for example Sean Burke, Vokoun, and I'd put the thawn on Thrashers side Niittymäki in this category) and those that make the saves (Hasek, Cujo, Belfour, Thomas, former Thrasher Nurminen would be an excellent example). With covering goalies you want a more passive defence, it is not so much about the number of shots rather then the quality of them. If the opponent wants to take long or bad angle shots, let them, just keep them off the prime scoring areas. With the big save types it is more about the number of shots, which means a more aggressive defence. Try to steal the puck, go after the other team in you own zone, and if your defence breaks down rely on your goalie to make the save.

Lehtonen is more of a percentage goalie, Pavs and Moose make the saves. So it kind of depends on what kind of defence you have.

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02-07-2010, 08:31 AM
  #310
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Yeah, well goaltending is a brutal job. You stop the puck or you don't, and then you sit. If Lehtonen gets a start and plays up to his ability, that is stops the pucks, you can forget about all the trust stuff and whatever. On the other hand if not he does not he needs to be moved. You don't pay goalies to be nice personalities.

The same goes with Pavelec and Moose. Moose is concistent and occasionally gets hot, which is exactly what a good backup does and what he is, nothing more, nothing less. Number one goalie should demoralize opponents, leading to too complicated plays and thus getting the entire team off their game. Basically number one goalie inspires fear. Moose doesn't, and Pavelec certainly does not either.

Pavs has great leg spead, but his hands aren't that great and his positioning is faulty. Which leaves him vulnerable to good high shots. Lehtonen actually has some of the same issues, but he is so much better at covering the net he doesn't have to make that mancy fancy saves. Anyway, teams know how to beat Pavelec, or at least think they too, which is the key. They should be scratching their heads. Pavs may very well get better over time, those are things that can be fixed, but number one goalie on a team hoping to go anywhere is not a trainee spot. He needs to be a backup now, and if his ego can't deal with it he needs to be moved.

Only other consideration not strictly related to actual goaltending is compatibility with the defence. Most goalies are bit of both, but there are roughly two types of goalies: those that cover the net (for example Sean Burke, Vokoun, and I'd put the thawn on Thrashers side Niittymäki in this category) and those that make the saves (Hasek, Cujo, Belfour, Thomas, former Thrasher Nurminen would be an excellent example). With covering goalies you want a more passive defence, it is not so much about the number of shots rather then the quality of them. If the opponent wants to take long or bad angle shots, let them, just keep them off the prime scoring areas. With the big save types it is more about the number of shots, which means a more aggressive defence. Try to steal the puck, go after the other team in you own zone, and if your defence breaks down rely on your goalie to make the save.

Lehtonen is more of a percentage goalie, Pavs and Moose make the saves. So it kind of depends on what kind of defence you have.
I can understand that the team has lost confidence in Kari--probably DW and the fans have too! Trading Kari might be inevitable but his value now is at an all-time low. If DW does trade him, we'll be lucky to get much in return. Some GM will be getting a cheap lottery ticket in Kari for a middling draft pick in a weak draft (maybe a prospect).

Another organizational "centerpiece" gone for a song!

Someday, future GMs will study the Thrashers as a lesson on how not to build a franchise from scratch.

Oh, one last point, DW is right about developing a new organizational persona not built around one player. I love that--should have been the plan 10 years ago! Then, shortly after saying that he countered with, "If Kovy is unsigned on July 1, I will call!" So much for the new plan.

That's why DW must go!

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02-07-2010, 10:01 AM
  #311
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About kari though... As far as I know, he never had a glass groin or sugar straw back in his days before being a Thrasher. Perhaps the physicality demanded in the NHL game brought out previously dormant problems. There's no way you would have seen that in a scouting report.

As for losing Franchise players, the only ones we've really lost are Kovalchuk and Savard. Heatley left because of the Snyder situation. Hossa never wanted to play in Atlanta. Don't forget that he'd just signed a nice extension in Ottawa when he got shipped off. Hossa never had an intention to resign in Atlanta.

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02-07-2010, 10:03 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by dunwoody_joe View Post
Oh, one last point, DW is right about developing a new organizational persona not built around one player. I love that--should have been the plan 10 years ago! Then, shortly after saying that he countered with, "If Kovy is unsigned on July 1, I will call!" So much for the new plan.

That's why DW must go!
Those aren't mutually exclusive ideas. If Kovy comes back, he'll have to play as part of the team. That means no long shifts, no cutting figure 8s, etc.

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02-07-2010, 10:07 AM
  #313
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In my opinion.

Kari is a very good goalie.

He is not an 'athlete.'

That's the problem.

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02-07-2010, 10:17 AM
  #314
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Those aren't mutually exclusive ideas. If Kovy comes back, he'll have to play as part of the team. That means no long shifts, no cutting figure 8s, etc.
If all of a sudden he is such a defensive liability and is detrimental to the team concept, why was this not realized and why did we not unload him three or four years ago. Why then are figure 8's and cherrypicking in the neutral zone overlooked and we reward his actions with a Captaincy?

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02-07-2010, 10:32 AM
  #315
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If all of a sudden he is such a defensive liability and is detrimental to the team concept, why was this not realized and why did we not unload him three or four years ago. Why then are figure 8's and cherrypicking in the neutral zone overlooked and we reward his actions with a Captaincy?
He sold a crapload of jerseys.

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02-07-2010, 11:29 AM
  #316
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I can understand that the team has lost confidence in Kari--probably DW and the fans have too!
DW, team, fans are probably frustrated with his injuries, but confidence in his play? Let me put it this way, when say Hainsey turns the puck over he'd rather have Pavelec then Lehtonen facing the odd man rush?

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02-07-2010, 12:25 PM
  #317
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Pavelec sucks he won't be this teams goalie in a year or 2 anyway... another setback is about to be taken by this franchise via Wahddell. Paveelc is nothin but a soft inconsistent over hyped rookie.

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02-07-2010, 12:27 PM
  #318
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Lehtonen was recalled today as per AJC

went 1-1-2 in his stint in the AHL. Both OT losses went to shoot outs and low scoring games.

the loss was his first game back. Overall he looked pretty damn good.

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02-07-2010, 12:33 PM
  #319
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He's played what, 68, 48, 46 games. That's not great for a #1, but it's certainly not awful. This year he will be under 45 for the first time in 4 years.

A lot of goalies have been injured the past few years, not as much as Kari, but Cam Ward has missed a lot of time, MAF has missed parts of multiple seasons, Kari has been more fragile, but at the end of the day he's the best of the 3 we have here in Atlanta.

Who knows, I'm not going to be too upset if they trade him, but I think it's the wrong move. However, I do understand the motivation behind it w/ Pavs on the roster. He always put up good numbers on some really bad teams defensively, so I think trading him when his value is somewhere around ZERO is pretty risky.

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02-07-2010, 12:38 PM
  #320
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He's played what, 68, 48, 46 games. That's not great for a #1, but it's certainly not awful. This year he will be under 45 for the first time in 4 years.

A lot of goalies have been injured the past few years, not as much as Kari, but Cam Ward has missed a lot of time, MAF has missed parts of multiple seasons, Kari has been more fragile, but at the end of the day he's the best of the 3 we have here in Atlanta.

Who knows, I'm not going to be too upset if they trade him, but I think it's the wrong move. However, I do understand the motivation behind it w/ Pavs on the roster. He always put up good numbers on some really bad teams defensively, so I think trading him when his value is somewhere around ZERO is pretty risky.
Especially if Pav's still has egibility to go back to the AHL without going through waivers. To be honest, Pav's has come back down to earth a lot lately, And what we get in a trade for lehtonen will be next to nothing. I dont find the harm in sending pav's down, giving lehtonen a start or two after the olympics, if he sucks. Put him on waivers and take the hit on him if anyone claims him.

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02-07-2010, 12:38 PM
  #321
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i just hope we give him a few games before we trade him. he's still an RFA after this season if i remember correctly. we can trade him after the season if need be.

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02-07-2010, 12:41 PM
  #322
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i just hope we give him a few games before we trade him. he's still an RFA after this season if i remember correctly. we can trade him after the season if need be.
After reading those quotes my guess is he's gone as soon as possible.

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02-07-2010, 12:51 PM
  #323
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After reading those quotes my guess is he's gone as soon as possible.
unfortunately so is mine, that is certainly a move i won't agree with though unless the return is surprisingly good

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02-07-2010, 01:54 PM
  #324
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Those aren't mutually exclusive ideas. If Kovy comes back, he'll have to play as part of the team. That means no long shifts, no cutting figure 8s, etc.
One guy eating up the max salary makes it awfully hard though

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02-07-2010, 02:04 PM
  #325
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unfortunately so is mine, that is certainly a move i won't agree with though unless the return is surprisingly good
Especially after the Kovy trade, Atlanta needs a bonafide NHL starter to build the franchise around. Not saying Kari is the answer, but neither is Pavs or Hedberg. Lehtonen seems to be gone, so there needs to be a new building block from where to start.

Overall, Atlanta's roster (defense) is so weak, that goaltending just cannot be average. Which teams could be after Lehtonen then?

Oilers, Dallas, Philly, Ottawa, Chicago...perhaps? With Lehtonen, trade for him would be only to get him for the future, not upgrading playoff goaltending. That makes this a bit tricky, specially if he's not showcased enough. Going to be interesting.

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