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News: Cop pulls gun on Ranger fans on LIRR

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Old
10-13-2009, 05:27 PM
  #26
offdacrossbar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR View Post
Even tasing him (bro) would've been excessive, more so than pulling a gun, 'cause he'd be doing actual harm.

In any case, I've heard of this and MUCH worse done by police. Good and bad, humble and arrogant people in all professions. But 16 years on the job and he threw it away for that? Moron.
i was joking. like making a joke here.

i didnt really mean they should be tasered.

bro.

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10-13-2009, 05:28 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
A taser is pretty much ineffective when approached by a group of people. Plus I think the article said he was off-duty and in plain clothes, so I doubt he would be carrying his taser with him.

As for my opinion on this, I tend to fall to favor the trained LEO, but I would need more information on what acutally happened to say if he was at fault or not. I mean did he announce himself and show his badge? Did two or three of the drunk fans approach him in an aggressive manor? Was he asked by one of the conductors to go over to them to quite them down (I see this VERY often on the Ronkonkoma line, where the conductor goes over to an off-duty LEO if there is some sort of issue on the train).

The fact that people on the train were calling 911, saying someone was brandishing a gun, leads me to believe that he didn't identify himself. That and the fact that the judge actually set bail/bond for him also makes me think that as well.
again. *joking*. as in, sarcasm.

i wasnt really suggesting a taser be used here.

wow. this place is getting creepy.

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10-13-2009, 05:35 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
an officer charged with "menacing"

What a PC world we live in, good god.
That's just the name. New York courts have "wrong" names for everything.

For example, what the rest of the nation calls "battery", we call "assault". What the rest of the nation calls "assault", we call "menacing".

Believe it or not, but the regular trial court in NY is called the Supreme Court. Above is is the Appellate Division. The highest court is the Court of Appeals. Yes, the Supreme Court is two steps below the Court of Appeals.

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10-13-2009, 05:36 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Second report has come out

People were not frightened as the officer was wearing a Lisin jersey and they were sure he would have shot wide.
yeah because lisin and now shooting wide some how just goes together.

as i said before, pretty much anything that happens going forward will somehow have a lisin component.

this is getting fun. really. you guys make my day. :

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10-13-2009, 05:41 PM
  #30
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Unfortunately, far too many cops abuse their power. A client of mine, a 60-year-old Orthodox Jew got beat up by an off duty 22-year-old cop who was showing off in front of his girlfriend. When the cops arrived, the little old man got arrested despite the fact that even the cop's girlfriend wouldn't agree to back up his story. Several people in front of the Coney Island Hospital said that the cop was the one who began yelling and was the only one assaulting anyone. Still, the cops wouldn't arrest their own. Needless to say, the District Attorney's Office dropped the case, but they refused to prosecute the cop also.

That's why this 16-year vet thought he could get away with this. Cops get away with all sorts of crap all the time, and then charge their victims with resisting arrest on top of assault.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
So, first it was an issue about political correctness, but now it's a question of not rushing to judgement? Sorry, but if the officer had been in a life-threatening situation (as he claimed in the NY Daily News), someone else would have been arrested too. There are plenty of ways to quiet people down (and as someone else mentioned conductors on suburban trains are experts at it), without drawing your weapon in a confined space. That's the last resort.

I have nothing against police carrying weapons when they're off duty, but they have to use extreme caution and have no other choice. Nothing I see here suggests this police officer was in that kind of situation.

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10-13-2009, 05:51 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
Unfortunately, far too many cops abuse their power. A client of mine, a 60-year-old Orthodox Jew got beat up by an off duty 22-year-old cop who was showing off in front of his girlfriend. When the cops arrived, the little old man got arrested despite the fact that even the cop's girlfriend wouldn't agree to back up his story. Several people in front of the Coney Island Hospital said that the cop was the one who began yelling and was the only one assaulting anyone. Still, the cops wouldn't arrest their own. Needless to say, the District Attorney's Office dropped the case, but they refused to prosecute the cop also.

That's why this 16-year vet thought he could get away with this. Cops get away with all sorts of crap all the time, and then charge their victims with resisting arrest on top of assault.
It certainly isn't unheard of for a police officer to abuse their power. There is an investigation going on in Yonkers right now about an officer(s) falsely accusing an innocent person. They filed a report that they arrived on a scene and a man took off running and discarded crack cocaine, which they booked into evidence. They were unable to apprehend him. The "suspect" was later picked up on a warrant in crutches due to a broken ankle he sustained the day prior to the "incident". I really hope they weren't outrun by a man on crutches...

It's unfortunate because I have family and friends that are law enforcement officers and it's folks like this that cast a shadow upon them.

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10-13-2009, 05:54 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
Unfortunately, far too many cops abuse their power. A client of mine, a 60-year-old Orthodox Jew got beat up by an off duty 22-year-old cop who was showing off in front of his girlfriend. When the cops arrived, the little old man got arrested despite the fact that even the cop's girlfriend wouldn't agree to back up his story. Several people in front of the Coney Island Hospital said that the cop was the one who began yelling and was the only one assaulting anyone. Still, the cops wouldn't arrest their own. Needless to say, the District Attorney's Office dropped the case, but they refused to prosecute the cop also.

That's why this 16-year vet thought he could get away with this. Cops get away with all sorts of crap all the time, and then charge their victims with resisting arrest on top of assault.
It's gotten much better over the last 30 years--and the majority of police try to do a good/fair job. This guy, however, didn't and will now pay the price.

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10-13-2009, 06:00 PM
  #33
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Yes, guys, please keep this in perspective. For every report of a police office abusing his power, there are 100 police officers that do a damn fine job. Public safety is no different than any other sector...you get some bad apples. But please, don't make blanket statements critical of the men and women in blue when they're simply untrue.

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Old
10-13-2009, 06:02 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Yes, guys, please keep this in perspective. For every report of a police office abusing his power, there are 100 police officers that do a damn fine job. Public safety is no different than any other sector...you get some bad apples. But please, don't make blanket statements critical of the men and women in blue when they're simply untrue.
Thank you. People have one bad experience with an officer and all of a sudden they all become power abusing *******s.

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10-13-2009, 06:05 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
That's just the name. New York courts have "wrong" names for everything.

For example, what the rest of the nation calls "battery", we call "assault". What the rest of the nation calls "assault", we call "menacing".

Believe it or not, but the regular trial court in NY is called the Supreme Court. Above is is the Appellate Division. The highest court is the Court of Appeals. Yes, the Supreme Court is two steps below the Court of Appeals.
Menacing is a more accurate term than assault, when you are threatening someone and not actually doing physical harm.

We have different names in NY, but not necessarily wrong. Check your legal history, because on many of these matters we were first to name things and to set up a court structure (other than the commonwealths that had a different structure entirely).

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Old
10-13-2009, 06:47 PM
  #36
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I wouldnt say the odds are 100 to 1, thats for sure.

Regardless... this story's ridiculous.

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Old
10-13-2009, 07:04 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
yeah because lisin and now shooting wide some how just goes together.

as i said before, pretty much anything that happens going forward will somehow have a lisin component.

this is getting fun. really. you guys make my day. :
DUDE GET OVER IT!

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Old
10-13-2009, 07:08 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Thank you. People have one bad experience with an officer and all of a sudden they all become power abusing *******s.
For me it's not one bad experience. I saw this stuff far too much until I eventually changed my mind and I no longer believe it's one bad incident, as I used to believe.

I am generally very sympathetic to law enforcement. I loved Rudy as mayor, I support the Patriot Act, etc.

The problem is that far too many cops act like d**ks and the rest regularly protect those who act this way.

I can see when I get a predicate felon who fights a cop and gets beat up. That's one thing.

It's another when I have a teenager who is a straight A student or an old guy gets beat up by a cop and then get charged with resisting arrest.

I get that cops have a tough job to do, but it would be easier if they treated people with some respect. Yes, predicate felons don't deserve it. But if you catch a 17 year old who breaks a minor law, there's no reason to abuse your power screaming at him, by holding up his documents for a full day or longer, and do other stuff you wouldn't do if his lawyer was present.

Not all cops do it, but most will protect those who do.

And that's from someone who believes that cops deserve a pay raise and New York State should reinstate the death penalty.

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Old
10-13-2009, 08:26 PM
  #39
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Off-duty cops need to be EXTREMELY careful with brandishing their concealed gun when they're off-duty.... You do not pull our your fire-arm unless the situation absolutely warrants it...

If a mob of drunken passengers started targeting him or other passengers with violence, and simply identifying himself as a police officer (brandishing his badge) did not defuse the situation, pulling out his gun might be warranted.... Doesn't sound like that was how this unfolded.....

If you pull your firearm out in a public place, in plain clothes, without properly identifying yourself to all that are present in the vicinity, a crisis can unfold... All of a sudden you have people running and screaming "He's got a gun" and then 911 calls of a man with a gun, and then you have police officers rushing to the scene with thoughts of having to pull out their guns to address the situation.... It creates for a really bad situation.... Or you might have everyday passengers see the gun and freak out and possibly try to disarm the off-duty cop or attack him... You never know how people are going to respond in those types of situations... Some have rational reactions, others freak out.

My roommate is a trooper and my other best friend is NYPD... My roommate wears his off-duty gun on an ankle holster where people will not see it.... Imagine being out at the bar and someone leans forward over the bar or a table and you see a gun on their waist or under their shirt? What would you do? Call 911 and report it right away, who wouldn't.... You need to be very careful....

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Old
10-13-2009, 10:04 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedsBlueforNYR View Post
You think MTA conductors calm people down with guns? Nope. I've seen some rowdy drunks on the way home from the Garden before and the conductor usually asks them nicely to behave or they will be removed at the next stop. You don't need a gun in these situations.
Pssssh...I wish I could sometimes!! But I'm a Conductor on the SUBWAY. BIG difference from the LIRR. I wish my rowdy passengers were simply fans coming from a game...some of these people are just out of their ******* minds, but what can ya do.

Just the other day I had 25-30 school kids (boys and girls) kicking and pushing my passengers, yelling and not letting anyone in or out of my train from 125th St to 149 st Grand Concourse. They wouldn't let me close the doors and I was getting so I just started blowing the train horn long short, long short continously (signal for police) and the police just came out of nowhere within 35-40 seconds. Those 2 cops grabbed every single one of those kids off the train and single handedly took control of the situation.

As far as this cop...bad judgement call. He power tripped it to the max. I've seen it happen...on duty and off duty.

-Brian

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10-13-2009, 10:27 PM
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Good for the cop. I'm sick of all these rowdy people acting like they own the whole train (they are breaking the law by disturbing the peace on a train probably publicaly intoxicated which is another misdemeanor, FWIW). I don't care if they are Rangers fans or not, stop acting like a animals.

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10-13-2009, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
i was joking. like making a joke here.

i didnt really mean they should be tasered.

bro.
And I was kidding, like kidding.

Guess you haven't seen the internet craze "don't tase me, BRO!" I shouldn't have assumed.

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Old
10-13-2009, 11:46 PM
  #43
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Dude I wish for one second your kids or wife were on that train and see how fast you would change your mind.
It wouldn't change my mind in the least. I am saying that I don't necessarily believe the first report I read about incidents because they aren't always the way things actually happened. Everyone here is reacting as though they just watched irrefutable video evidence of this incident. So if it were a citizen charged with breaking a law, he's innocent until proven guilty, unless he has a badge and a gun, in which case all you guys are ready to send him up the river. Everybody hates a cop until they need one though, right? Actually, I'm kinda surprised at you, Dagoon, because I know you're not some 19 year old freshman who thinks cops sole purpose on this earth is to keep them from having fun. The bottom line is, not a single person commenting on this was there. I don't know how much experience any of you have in this kind of situation. Alot of police and peace officers ride mass transit. A police officer is duty bound to act in many situations whether on duty or off. You cannot just sit by and watch crimes take place because you're not on the clock. What may have started off as a request to keep things down could rapidly get out of hand, particularly when you are outnumbered by people who may be under the influence of alcohol or other substances. In that case, you do what you need to do to get that situation in hand. I'd rather be the cop who got fired for being wrong than the one who underestimated the gravity of the situation, and wound up beat to death or shot with his own gun. And maybe it's me, but I'm not going to put in 16 years and be 4 away from retirement so I can throw it away because I don't like the way a few fun loving Rangers fans are celebrating on the train. There's probably a little more to this story. BTW, I think it's downright despicable what some of you are saying about cops here, because if you called out any other group, be it blacks, jews, homosexuals, or whatever by saying that because you had a bad experience or that you've seen ones act like this, that they are all like that, it would not be tolerated for a single second and you'd find yourselves banned, and you know it. You all loved 'em on 9/11 though right? Hypocrites.

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10-13-2009, 11:49 PM
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I am 100% pro cop but idiots like this give them a bad name.

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10-14-2009, 12:03 AM
  #45
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It wouldn't change my mind in the least. I am saying that I don't necessarily believe the first report I read about incidents because they aren't always the way things actually happened. Everyone here is reacting as though they just watched irrefutable video evidence of this incident. So if it were a citizen charged with breaking a law, he's innocent until proven guilty, unless he has a badge and a gun, in which case all you guys are ready to send him up the river. Everybody hates a cop until they need one though, right? Actually, I'm kinda surprised at you, Dagoon, because I know you're not some 19 year old freshman who thinks cops sole purpose on this earth is to keep them from having fun. The bottom line is, not a single person commenting on this was there. I don't know how much experience any of you have in this kind of situation. Alot of police and peace officers ride mass transit. A police officer is duty bound to act in many situations whether on duty or off. You cannot just sit by and watch crimes take place because you're not on the clock. What may have started off as a request to keep things down could rapidly get out of hand, particularly when you are outnumbered by people who may be under the influence of alcohol or other substances. In that case, you do what you need to do to get that situation in hand. I'd rather be the cop who got fired for being wrong than the one who underestimated the gravity of the situation, and wound up beat to death or shot with his own gun. And maybe it's me, but I'm not going to put in 16 years and be 4 away from retirement so I can throw it away because I don't like the way a few fun loving Rangers fans are celebrating on the train. There's probably a little more to this story. BTW, I think it's downright despicable what some of you are saying about cops here, because if you called out any other group, be it blacks, jews, homosexuals, or whatever by saying that because you had a bad experience or that you've seen ones act like this, that they are all like that, it would not be tolerated for a single second and you'd find yourselves banned, and you know it. You all loved 'em on 9/11 though right? Hypocrites.
I'm a 23-year-old, white, disabled, law-abiding citizen. Also a political activist, and the police are always pleasant (if not usually supportive) of the peaceful protests I participate in. In fact, they usually congratulate us when they cart us off.

I have also been brutalized by an officer for no other reason than the fact that I was hanging out with a squatter. My perspective on cops (as well as politicians, lawyers, doctors and bartenders) is on a case-by-case basis.

Now, I didn't see anyone say horrible things about cops. Some are ********. So are some disabled activists. Police officers are a necessary part of society, but should never be revered for doing their jobs (no matter how much someone cries 9/11). We have to establish that it is a minority that do wrong however.

By no means should a cop be allowed to carry a gun off the job, and that's a ridiculous concept. Without the uniform and off the clock, a cop is a civilian, and even on the job, they are NEVER above the law.

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10-14-2009, 12:14 AM
  #46
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I can only speak of what i see here in the UK but from my experience most cops are ****ers, they abuse their power and think they have a law for us and a law for them. Cops cover each others tracks all the time and regularly abuse their power, Over here the amount off police brutality has shot up and its no wonder there was recently a law introduced making it illegal to photograph cops, but hey its for the war against terror right? to keep us safe? ********. the two go hand in hand.

I am forever reading on the net about how cops who have broke the law are getting away with things that me or you would be punished for, You are guilty until proven innocent nowadays, people really need to get familiar with the law so that when people are stopped by police they know what to say and how to say it, I am starting to read more about it just lately but admittedly i am not where i would like to be but that will come in time.

I know people who are cops and they are ok guys but i know they always have their cop head on, always listening. I dont trust them to be honest, any of them. Not all are bad but i look at the police like the government, you think they are there for your protection but more often than not they screw you over.

I believe most probably go in with good intentions but in time the power gets to them, give them a gun, truncheon and taser and what do you expect.

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10-14-2009, 12:18 AM
  #47
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it's nice to see these types of cops actually getting into trouble instead of the usual "paid administrative leave" you usually see.

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10-14-2009, 01:12 AM
  #48
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Second report has come out

People were not frightened as the officer was wearing a Lisin jersey and they were sure he would have shot wide.


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Old
10-14-2009, 01:36 AM
  #49
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That Lisin line made my night.

But back to the incident, I take the LIRR six, seven days a week and have been for years (damn, I have to move already) and work evenings/nights. There are tons of drunks, tons of "boisterous" idiots ... and if you can't take it, then you get up and move to another car. That simple. Problem solved. You don't wave a gun around. That's just stupid. I have friends that are cops, and friends that are drunk idiots, and friends that are both. You just don't pull your piece, that is retarded. While I wouldn't want to see the guy go to jail - stupidity isn't a crime in this country (yet, sadly) - he should lose his job. No one should have power like that and not know how and when to use it.

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Old
10-14-2009, 06:54 AM
  #50
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The more rowdy Rangers fans the better.

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