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News: Cop pulls gun on Ranger fans on LIRR

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Old
10-14-2009, 07:05 AM
  #51
Mio41
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Had an interesting ride home on the LIRR following the Ottawa game got on the train and asked the ticket taker, who was literally 4' 10" tall, a question and he wouldn't answer me, he was yelling get in the train or get off we are leaving. The train was loud and full of happy Ranger fans, `so when he went to ask for my ticket I yelled at him what's your problem, I was trying to ask you a question, by the way I'm a 51 year old white guy wearing an Eddie Giacomin jersey, things got worse for him after I yelled at him, every started calling him shorty, and other assorted small jokes and he called out the whole train and said he would call a cop, it was pretty funny, they wouldn't stop torturing the little jackass and he finally ran and hid in his little compartment.

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Old
10-14-2009, 07:16 AM
  #52
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Why does the LIRR allow alcohol to be consumed on the train? You take a train in the mid afternoon and all of the construction workers going home each have a six pack with them. By the time they reach Jamaica,they are out of beer.

The LIRR sell beer at their main stations.

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Old
10-14-2009, 08:37 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR View Post

By no means should a cop be allowed to carry a gun off the job, and that's a ridiculous concept. Without the uniform and off the clock, a cop is a civilian, and even on the job, they are NEVER above the law.
Well, at 23, you seem to have life all figured out. Congratulations, it should all be easy street from here. Now, I'm not trying to turn this into a personal attack on you, but you're 100% wrong on what I quoted above. When a cop is sworn in, they are swearing in to uphold and protect the law ALL THE TIME. It does not end at their 8 hour shift. They are not mall security guards. This is the very basis for why they carry "off duty" firearms. Because a "police officer", unlike a "peace officer" is duty bound and obligated to act in their official capacity at all times, provided they are witihin the jurisdiction that they work in. They can't be standing in the line at the bank on their day off and some guy comes in and robs the place, and they just act like it never happened because they are a civilian that day. Acting in their official capacity may not be single handedly taking down the suspect, it may be providing witness, description, details, etc. But they don't get to just sit there and "not want to get involved" like John Q. Public can. Secondly, think about this "Ridiculous" concept for a second. Police deal with the very worst people in our society, call them on their actions, and are the face the criminal associates with the repercussions they must face for breaking the laws that we, the rest of society, have agreed that we want to follow. You don't think a few of those nasty criminals might not take that a bit personally? I'm running drugs on my corner and you catch me out there, and ruin what was a lucrative money making opportunity for me and my guys? So it wouldn't be real easy for me to just wait until all the cops in your perfect world punch out for the day and walk out of the station for me to exact my revenge? Or maybe I just search the public tax records and find out where you live, and wait for that Sunday morning when you and your wife and kids are heading out to church and do a driveby. Because there are people out there who think like that and would do it. Cops are what keep the wolves of our society from turning you all into sheep. To sit there and think that not only should they stick their neck out to protect yours, but to have to be at a disadvantage and be unarmed unless they are working is the real ridiculous concept.

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Old
10-14-2009, 09:04 AM
  #54
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Funny thing is these idiots were probably quiet at the Garden.

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Old
10-14-2009, 09:13 AM
  #55
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All in all it sounds like a pleasant evening.

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Old
10-14-2009, 09:15 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Why does the LIRR allow alcohol to be consumed on the train? You take a train in the mid afternoon and all of the construction workers going home each have a six pack with them. By the time they reach Jamaica,they are out of beer.

The LIRR sell beer at their main stations.
I thought they didnt allow it anymore.

Or maybe Im just thinking of the specific train back west from the Boardy Barn. They now dont allow alcohol back on that train, for VERY good reason.

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Old
10-14-2009, 09:17 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR View Post
By no means should a cop be allowed to carry a gun off the job, and that's a ridiculous concept. Without the uniform and off the clock, a cop is a civilian, and even on the job, they are NEVER above the law.
As in any other walk of life, there are cops who are bad guys, but it seems that you don't really know any cops and have never read about them getting involved in helping to stop a crime when they are "off duty".

but there is also something else you are forgetting: "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

Everyone who is properly trained and licensed and following local law can carry a gun.

Carrying a gun, like driving a car or taking prescription medication, is dangerous when it is done irresponsibly. Which applies to this cop in the published version of the story. But it is not automatic that anyone carrying a gun is irresponsible.

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Old
10-14-2009, 10:37 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SML View Post
Well, at 23, you seem to have life all figured out. Congratulations, it should all be easy street from here. Now, I'm not trying to turn this into a personal attack on you, but you're 100% wrong on what I quoted above. When a cop is sworn in, they are swearing in to uphold and protect the law ALL THE TIME. It does not end at their 8 hour shift. They are not mall security guards. This is the very basis for why they carry "off duty" firearms. Because a "police officer", unlike a "peace officer" is duty bound and obligated to act in their official capacity at all times, provided they are witihin the jurisdiction that they work in. They can't be standing in the line at the bank on their day off and some guy comes in and robs the place, and they just act like it never happened because they are a civilian that day. Acting in their official capacity may not be single handedly taking down the suspect, it may be providing witness, description, details, etc. But they don't get to just sit there and "not want to get involved" like John Q. Public can. Secondly, think about this "Ridiculous" concept for a second. Police deal with the very worst people in our society, call them on their actions, and are the face the criminal associates with the repercussions they must face for breaking the laws that we, the rest of society, have agreed that we want to follow. You don't think a few of those nasty criminals might not take that a bit personally? I'm running drugs on my corner and you catch me out there, and ruin what was a lucrative money making opportunity for me and my guys? So it wouldn't be real easy for me to just wait until all the cops in your perfect world punch out for the day and walk out of the station for me to exact my revenge? Or maybe I just search the public tax records and find out where you live, and wait for that Sunday morning when you and your wife and kids are heading out to church and do a driveby. Because there are people out there who think like that and would do it. Cops are what keep the wolves of our society from turning you all into sheep. To sit there and think that not only should they stick their neck out to protect yours, but to have to be at a disadvantage and be unarmed unless they are working is the real ridiculous concept.
Never said I had all the answers. But at 23, I am an adult with an adult mind and adult responsibilities. Sorry I misunderstood some of it. But "they stop the wolves from turning [I]us[I] into sheeps?" I suppose they're superhuman or of a superior race in that case.

Oh yeah, the concept of ANY civilian carrying a gun is ridiculous. Not saying YOU, but your concept. If the law says I can't carry a gun, neither should any civilian, I don't care what they do 8-4 or 12-8 (or even 4-12.

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Old
10-14-2009, 10:43 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aslim240 View Post
As in any other walk of life, there are cops who are bad guys, but it seems that you don't really know any cops and have never read about them getting involved in helping to stop a crime when they are "off duty".

but there is also something else you are forgetting: "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

Everyone who is properly trained and licensed and following local law can carry a gun.

Carrying a gun, like driving a car or taking prescription medication, is dangerous when it is done irresponsibly. Which applies to this cop in the published version of the story. But it is not automatic that anyone carrying a gun is irresponsible.
This argument is about the Constitution, not police.

Think, god-forbid, a child you know killed himself because his 8th grade girlfriend dumped him.How would his parents feel? What good have guns done, besides Kotalik's shot from the point?

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Old
10-14-2009, 11:16 AM
  #60
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LOL at a lot of you. If the fans were Devils or Flyers fans, you would have probably said it was their fault for being drunk and deserve to have a gun pulled on them.

Unless you were on that train, or are a police officer, you have no idea what kind of situation the cop was in. If he tells people to keep quiet without identifying himself, then shame on him.

But drunk people are irrational. If you are a cop and two or three or four drunk guys threaten to kick your butt and are moving towards you in an aggressive manner, what is he supposed to do? Forget 16 years of standard police training?

It's one thing if they were just verbally attacking the cop. If he has to pull his gun out for that, then he should be punished. But if several of them were approaching him in an aggressive manner (Cop's discretion and translation) he has every right to pull out his gun and give verbal warning.

It's called "Escalation of Force"

1) Shout -- "Hey...stop where you are"

If assailant continues to act aggressively,

2) Show -- "I have a weapon"

If assailant continues to act aggressively

3) Shove -- Use weapon to push assailant away

If assailant continues to act aggressively

4) Shoot to disable (legs)

5) Shoot to kill


There you have 5 simple steps. According to the officer, he verbally identified himself as a Cop several times to two guys who were smoking, drinking, cursing and "disprespecting" the other passangers.

After giving them a final warning, the two men became a aggressive and attacked the Cop. he pulled out his gun, and the fighting stopped.

If what he says is true, I dont care if the two guys were Mark Messier and Brian Leetch. The Cop acted the right way.

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Old
10-14-2009, 11:34 AM
  #61
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I wasn't there. I don't know what happened, but about half of my rides home from Rangers games come complete with blathering, obnoxious, loudmouthed drunks who I wouldn't mind seeing tossed off the train.

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Old
10-14-2009, 12:08 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I wasn't there. I don't know what happened, but about half of my rides home from Rangers games come complete with blathering, obnoxious, loudmouthed drunks who I wouldn't mind seeing tossed off the train.
Ahhhh the drunk train.

I actually kind of like that the LIRR allows alcohol on the train. The Bar Cars are apparently coming back. When I was riding the Babylon line every day a few years back (moved to Brooklyn, ahhh JMZ how I love you) its kind of nice to relax on the train with a beer or two after a hard days work. When you're commuting for the city its hard to stay for a drink after work unless you want to get home at 10pm.

But I do think there should be alcohol free cars. Theres nothing worse than a group of 6 people drinking and being morons in the afternoon rush hour while you're trying to take a nap (WITH headphones in!). Hell, I think there should be cars for monthly ticket holders so I don't have to listen to trophy wives chat on their cell phones after a hard day of shopping, but hey, thats just me.

For all its faults, the price and service for the subways has made my life so much nicer. PROTIP: for those of you on the Babylon line, the first stop on the Speonk line is Babylon.

And on this whole situation, i really think its being blown out of proportion.

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Old
10-14-2009, 12:14 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR View Post
This argument is about the Constitution, not police.

Think, god-forbid, a child you know killed himself because his 8th grade girlfriend dumped him.How would his parents feel? What good have guns done, besides Kotalik's shot from the point?
Oh do not even start with that right now. What good have guns done? Maybe.... established the United States as an independent nation???

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Old
10-14-2009, 12:38 PM
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Old
10-14-2009, 12:39 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus View Post
If what he says is true, I dont care if the two guys were Mark Messier and Brian Leetch. The Cop acted the right way.
If what the cop said was true, then why was he immediately arrested? Why would the word of a 16 year police veteran get him nowhere with the arriving officers?

After listening to this guy's interview (http://gothamist.com/2009/10/13/off-...ce_to_shut.php), he may be one of NYC's finest, but he's definitley not one of their brightest. I mean he himself admits that his arrest was warranted and that his behavior "might not have been the best thing to do".

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Old
10-14-2009, 12:45 PM
  #66
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Okay, that's funny. I'll stop now. Sorry for bringing it that far off track. My apologies,all. Post deleted.

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Old
10-14-2009, 12:47 PM
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I have a friend who is a cop and knows a little inside info on this situation. The cops that arrested the officer consulted with the conductor who destroyed the cop on the police report. NOT ONE witness sided with the cop and MANY innocent bystanders offered to go to the station to write statements etc..

Now its all hearsay and I got the info second hand but from what I understand the cop only identified himself to the conductor NOT to the Rangers fans and that's the main reason this is a big deal.
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Old
10-14-2009, 01:06 PM
  #68
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Don't know what happened but have noticed during the games the crowd is usually well behave it is when going down the stairwells and
escalators from the Garden and on the railroad trains they get loud and obnoxious Why I do not know

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Old
10-14-2009, 01:18 PM
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I was on this train I can judge this cop and he was dead wrong! Pol keep defending him saying noone knows what really happened... He pulled out a gun and caused absolute chaos without identifying himself. Employees and passengers alike were fighting to run inbetween cars to get to the back. NOONE knew this guy was a cop. He was wrong, dead wrong. Stop saying noon knows what happened . Btw I'm from a family of nypd, my brother is nypd. I'm fdny, i usually defend police in every situation

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10-14-2009, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Why does the LIRR allow alcohol to be consumed on the train? You take a train in the mid afternoon and all of the construction workers going home each have a six pack with them. By the time they reach Jamaica,they are out of beer.

The LIRR sell beer at their main stations.
BEERS + TRAIN RIDE = AWESOME....

I always consume 2 beers on my ride from the Bergen line to Secaucus.

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Old
10-14-2009, 02:28 PM
  #71
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Man, on the DC Metro, you can't drink at all. ANYTHING. Or eat. It's a fine pushing $500.

You can drink/eat on the MARC train (a commuter rail in Baltimore/Washington), but I have no reason to ride that ever.

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10-14-2009, 02:39 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Tom122205 View Post
I was on this train I can judge this cop and he was dead wrong! Pol keep defending him saying noone knows what really happened... He pulled out a gun and caused absolute chaos without identifying himself. Employees and passengers alike were fighting to run inbetween cars to get to the back. NOONE knew this guy was a cop. He was wrong, dead wrong. Stop saying noon knows what happened . Btw I'm from a family of nypd, my brother is nypd. I'm fdny, i usually defend police in every situation
Were you in the train car when this went down?

If not, I would think it would be hard for you to determine whether or not he identified himself.

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Old
10-14-2009, 02:47 PM
  #73
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I thought they didnt allow it anymore.

Or maybe Im just thinking of the specific train back west from the Boardy Barn. They now dont allow alcohol back on that train, for VERY good reason.
They raised the prices last year. I remember reading it and shaking my head. They make so much money selling alcohol.

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Old
10-14-2009, 03:02 PM
  #74
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Were you in the train car when this went down?

If not, I would think it would be hard for you to determine whether or not he identified himself.
i was about 4 cars back but 15+ ppl came running into my car and all told the same story. some ppl were arguing and some "wackjob" pulled out a gun. nobody that was running scared had any idea this guy was a cop. you should've seen the choas this guy created on that train. after things calmed down a bit i made my way up to that car because i thought i heard someone say they needed medical assistance ,and im an EMT...i heard one of the women he pointed it at telling the nassau pd what had happened.

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Old
10-14-2009, 03:09 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Man, on the DC Metro, you can't drink at all. ANYTHING. Or eat. It's a fine pushing $500.

You can drink/eat on the MARC train (a commuter rail in Baltimore/Washington), but I have no reason to ride that ever.
I wish the eating thing was more enforced on the subways here in the city. I sat on the Williamsburg bridge yesterday for a good 20 mins having to smell someones stinky dumplings they were chowing down on while we waited for the damn train in front of us to leave Marcy Ave.

Why is it people always feel the need to eat cabbage in small spaces?

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