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Something wrong with Josh Bailey?

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Old
10-18-2009, 02:47 PM
  #51
Trumanperro
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He's young, and young players tend to go through both hot streaks and cold streaks. If he is still playing like this 15-20 games into the season I will start becoming concerned.
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i think it may have to do with linemates.

Last season he played most of his time with KO. KO has the ability to make his players around him better. But yeah he doesnt really seem to have that poise he had last season. Him and comeau seemed to have cemestry during the preseason. So it may have to do with his line mates but right now. I would like to see baily sent to the bridge when nielson comes back no point in burying baily on the 4th line. Let him play out the year with 1st line minutes down their, get his confidence up and bring him back next season.
I think these two got it right. He's young and streaks come and go, but, it's difficult to play with new line mates. During the opener he had moments with KO that were magic. It's nice to play with talents like KO, but, it does take some time to adjust to new line mates.

Also, i see confidence being a problem. He's hesitant to shoot and go into corners (and when he does he puts himself in horrible positions and ends up getting creamed), but right now we can blame it on growing pains. If he's the same down the road. Then we can ***** about him "being brought up to early".

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10-20-2009, 01:02 PM
  #52
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I still hated that draft pick. Nothing against Josh, but we needed an impact player in the 2008 draft, we had the #5 pick, and though we've picked up some nice prospects in the draft after trading down twice, I still would have rather had Filatov (in 12 NHL games, has 5 goals, only 2 less than Josh has had in 75 games), Wilson, Boedkker or Hodgson than Bailey. Being one of the lowest scoring teams for the last 10 years, this team needed an offensive player. Josh is a nice 3rd line defensively responsible center. All the scouts agreed that Josh would never be able to be an offensive force like he was his last year of junior hockey.

Also, why does it seem like we are always being out drafted by teams like the Rangers, or any other team who usually have lower draft picks than us ? Bailey drafted 9th, Del Zotto drafted 20th, this years draft NYI pick 31, Mikko Koskinen, pick 33 Colorado, Ryan O'Reilly (who has scored one less point than our own JT as a rookie). It's been like this for years, very annoying.

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10-20-2009, 01:14 PM
  #53
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why not send him down to the AHL where he can get some top line minutes & perhaps some confidence. I really don't see how getting 3rd line minutes is helping his development at all. While he held his own last year and learned a lot, he was rushed to the NHL. and I was in favor of him spending the whole year in the NHL. but just because he spent all of last year in the NHL doesn't mean that he can't/shouldn't be sent down to the AHL this year.

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10-20-2009, 01:46 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
I still hated that draft pick. Nothing against Josh, but we needed an impact player in the 2008 draft, we had the #5 pick, and though we've picked up some nice prospects in the draft after trading down twice, I still would have rather had Filatov (in 12 NHL games, has 5 goals, only 2 less than Josh has had in 75 games), Wilson, Boedkker or Hodgson than Bailey. Being one of the lowest scoring teams for the last 10 years, this team needed an offensive player. Josh is a nice 3rd line defensively responsible center. All the scouts agreed that Josh would never be able to be an offensive force like he was his last year of junior hockey.

Also, why does it seem like we are always being out drafted by teams like the Rangers, or any other team who usually have lower draft picks than us ? Bailey drafted 9th, Del Zotto drafted 20th, this years draft NYI pick 31, Mikko Koskinen, pick 33 Colorado, Ryan O'Reilly (who has scored one less point than our own JT as a rookie). It's been like this for years, very annoying.
Most scouts also thought that Ryan Getzlaf would top off as a 3rd liner with limited offensive skill. A lot of scouts thought that Del Zotto's defensive game would keep him from being an effective dman in the league. A lot of scouts also had questions about the guys you mention. Filatov's knock was that he was too small. He still is, and his contributions have been minimal thus far. Colin Wilson's knock was that he wasn't going to produce many points at the NHL level (much like Bailey), but was seen as more physically mature. Boedker exploded in his draft year, but there were questions about his goalscoring ability. Luke Schenn is a one-dimensional defensive dman (albeit an effective one).

Two points here. 1) Scouts can only predict so much, as they were wrong a number of players like Getzlaf, Statsny, and hundreds of other players; 2) You're comparing Bailey to players that haven't separated themselves at all as being better prospects/players; and 3) If Bailey went back to juniors and dominated (after scoring 96 points in his draft year), I think you'd be singing a different tune, as he may have outperformed Hodgson in year 1 post-draft.

I was one of the fans that did not like or understand the Bailey pick. I'm still not convinced he was the right pick. But considering none of the other guys we could have had have separated themselves as elite prospects/players, it's all premature. Until we start forming a more definitive picture of all the guys drafted between picks 5 and 12ish, this is all rhetoric.

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10-21-2009, 10:55 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by scott99 View Post

Also, why does it seem like we are always being out drafted by teams like the Rangers, or any other team who usually have lower draft picks than us ? Bailey drafted 9th, Del Zotto drafted 20th, this years draft NYI pick 31, Mikko Koskinen, pick 33 Colorado, Ryan O'Reilly (who has scored one less point than our own JT as a rookie). It's been like this for years, very annoying.
I aksed this question also but i either get clueless islander fans telling me that the rangers prospects are inferior to ours or no one can give me a legit answer because there aren't any to give.

i think i have an answer but don't want to get into any arguments because i am tired of talking about the same things over and over.

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10-21-2009, 12:07 PM
  #56
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I think the quick answer would be to put him back on a line with Okposo and Comeau, which might help him get back into it but I feel the answer is deeper than just that.

Personally they need to send him to the AHL to develop properly. Let him find his own game and just progress naturally instead of forcing him to play up to the level in the NHL already. If I was Snow I would've let him play Juniors last year and then brought him up to the AHL for a season, maybe two max or until I started seeing what I wanted to in him.

But seriously Snow, send him to the AHL, first line center minutes, first pp, let him be the man down there because up here he's just not going to develop his game properly.

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10-21-2009, 12:19 PM
  #57
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I think the quick answer would be to put him back on a line with Okposo and Comeau, which might help him get back into it but I feel the answer is deeper than just that.

Personally they need to send him to the AHL to develop properly. Let him find his own game and just progress naturally instead of forcing him to play up to the level in the NHL already. If I was Snow I would've let him play Juniors last year and then brought him up to the AHL for a season, maybe two max or until I started seeing what I wanted to in him.

But seriously Snow, send him to the AHL, first line center minutes, first pp, let him be the man down there because up here he's just not going to develop his game properly.
Is it even possible at this point to send him down (contract-wise)?

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10-21-2009, 12:30 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
Also, why does it seem like we are always being out drafted by teams like the Rangers, or any other team who usually have lower draft picks than us ? Bailey drafted 9th, Del Zotto drafted 20th, this years draft NYI pick 31, Mikko Koskinen, pick 33 Colorado, Ryan O'Reilly (who has scored one less point than our own JT as a rookie). It's been like this for years, very annoying.
1) 19 teams passed on Del Zotto and every team passed on O'Reilly. Yet you are singling out the Isles.
2) These kids are 18-20 years old. We still don't know who the better players will be. You are assuming that their careers will follow their first 5-10 games. Lots of players have early success but don't continue developing or struggle early before adjusting and becoming successful players.
3) You are focusing on two players. The Isles have a few players that are currently performing better than the ones drafted ahead of them (Hamonic, Ullstrom for example).
4) Yes, Bailey is struggling. But so are the players that people wanted the Isles to pick, namely Filatov, Schenn and Boedker. Are they all busts? Or are they just young players who have a lot to learn?

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10-21-2009, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
Also, why does it seem like we are always being out drafted by teams like the Rangers, or any other team who usually have lower draft picks than us ? Bailey drafted 9th, Del Zotto drafted 20th, this years draft NYI pick 31, Mikko Koskinen, pick 33 Colorado, Ryan O'Reilly (who has scored one less point than our own JT as a rookie). It's been like this for years, very annoying.
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Originally Posted by potvins4cups View Post
I aksed this question also but i either get clueless islander fans telling me that the rangers prospects are inferior to ours or no one can give me a legit answer because there aren't any to give.

i think i have an answer but don't want to get into any arguments because i am tired of talking about the same things over and over.

There's a new one. Trust me the Rangers are unfortunately unlucky in the draft for the most part with a few gems thrown in. And even when they draft great something still goes wrong more than it goes right. Del Zotto is looking like the real deal and that's great but so is Tavares. The Rangers are in pretty good shape but when I look at the players the Islanders have coming down the pipe I can't believe that you're unhappy with that.

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10-21-2009, 12:48 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
1) 19 teams passed on Del Zotto and every team passed on O'Reilly. Yet you are singling out the Isles.
2) These kids are 18-20 years old. We still don't know who the better players will be. You are assuming that their careers will follow their first 5-10 games. Lots of players have early success but don't continue developing or struggle early before adjusting and becoming successful players.
3) You are focusing on two players. The Isles have a few players that are currently performing better than the ones drafted ahead of them (Hamonic, Ullstrom for example).
4) Yes, Bailey is struggling. But so are the players that people wanted the Isles to pick, namely Filatov, Schenn and Boedker. Are they all busts? Or are they just young players who have a lot to learn?
I wouldn't say Filatov is struggling, 5 NHL goals in 12 games is far from struggling (35 goal season pace). I do think his ice time is at a minimum though. If he were with the Islanders, he'd probably be given top 6 ice time (I drool at the thought of him with Weight, And Filatov, Tavares, Weight, Streit and Okposo on our powerplay). Columbus is more of a veteran team that the Isles are. Like Tavares, Filatov was the right pick for the Islanders, a much better pick than Bailey has been, or will be. Mark my words, like 2000 (Trading Luongo & Jokinen, and then picking DiPietro over Gaborik or Heatley, two great offensive players) and 2001 (Yashin for Spezza & Chara), 2008 will come back to haunt us. No doubt in my mind, Bailey will NOT be the best out of the guys we could have had. Filatov, Schenn, Wilson, Boedkker & Hodgson were all better prospects then, and they are now, and probably always will, face it, like always, we screwed up.

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10-21-2009, 01:03 PM
  #61
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Mark my words, like 2000 (Trading Luongo & Jokinen, and then picking DiPietro over Gaborik or Heatley, two great offensive players) and 2001 (Yashin for Spezza & Chara), 2008 will come back to haunt us. No doubt in my mind, Bailey will NOT be the best out of the guys we could have had. Filatov, Schenn, Wilson, Boedkker & Hodgson were all better prospects then, and they are now, and probably always will, face it, like always, we screwed up.
Bailey might not turn out to be a great pick, with guys like Myers, Del Zotto behind him.. But I don't think it's anything like the blunders you mentioned. Not even close. If it's a blunder, it's not even as bad as the 2003 blunder, taking Nilsson over a whole bunch of people. His development might be a blunder, but that's another story.

None of the other forwards are setting the world on fire. Del Zotto seems great, but he'd be redundant on this team. Myers, on the other hand, is impressive. Size and D is what the Isles needed and still need.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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10-22-2009, 10:18 AM
  #62
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I wouldn't say Filatov is struggling, 5 NHL goals in 12 games is far from struggling (35 goal season pace). I do think his ice time is at a minimum though. If he were with the Islanders, he'd probably be given top 6 ice time (I drool at the thought of him with Weight, And Filatov, Tavares, Weight, Streit and Okposo on our powerplay). Columbus is more of a veteran team that the Isles are. Like Tavares, Filatov was the right pick for the Islanders, a much better pick than Bailey has been, or will be. Mark my words, like 2000 (Trading Luongo & Jokinen, and then picking DiPietro over Gaborik or Heatley, two great offensive players) and 2001 (Yashin for Spezza & Chara), 2008 will come back to haunt us. No doubt in my mind, Bailey will NOT be the best out of the guys we could have had. Filatov, Schenn, Wilson, Boedkker & Hodgson were all better prospects then, and they are now, and probably always will, face it, like always, we screwed up.
A bit of an overexaggeration. I was really dissapointed with the Bailey pick at the time it happened. But the guys you're endowing with greatness already haven't shown much. Like I've said before, if Bailey went back to Juniors last year, he would have dominated statistically, and you would have a different outlook, and I say this only because you're giving unknown commodities the benefit of the doubt over a struggling 19/20 year old playing at the NHL level. You may be right, but it's ridiculous to say that this is at the magnitude of the blunders you mentioned.

Even Thornton and Lecavalier struggled mightily their first few years in the league. And both looked awful, so I refuse to label any prospect a bust or a dissapointment until they develop.

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10-22-2009, 01:08 PM
  #63
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A bit of an overexaggeration. I was really dissapointed with the Bailey pick at the time it happened. But the guys you're endowing with greatness already haven't shown much. Like I've said before, if Bailey went back to Juniors last year, he would have dominated statistically, and you would have a different outlook, and I say this only because you're giving unknown commodities the benefit of the doubt over a struggling 19/20 year old playing at the NHL level. You may be right, but it's ridiculous to say that this is at the magnitude of the blunders you mentioned.

Even Thornton and Lecavalier struggled mightily their first few years in the league. And both looked awful, so I refuse to label any prospect a bust or a dissapointment until they develop.
I'm not doubting he'll develop, but the question is, develop into what ? I doubt he'll ever be a 1st or 2nd line center, though on the Isles, he probably will be a 2nd line center. he's just not offensively gifted, and that's what the Isles needed then, and need now, and in the future. He is going to be a fine defensive 3rd line center, Is that what you purposely trade down from a lottery pick for ? There were better options available for a team that struggles mightly offensively. Filatov, Wilson, Boedker & Hodgson were rated higher than Bailey for a reason.

Don't let Hodgson being sent back to junior hockey sway your judgement, Vancouver is way more stacked in the forward position than the Isles, Hodgson would be our #2 center RIGHT NOW. Filatov is playing on a playoff team, also getting less icetime for the same reason (and yet, still has 5 goals in 12 games, a 35 game pace). i just have a bad feeling about the Bailey pick, just like I did with Scott Scissons, when we missed out on some elite talent.

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10-22-2009, 01:20 PM
  #64
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I'm not doubting he'll develop, but the question is, develop into what ? I doubt he'll ever be a 1st or 2nd line center, though on the Isles, he probably will be a 2nd line center. he's just not offensively gifted, and that's what the Isles needed then, and need now, and in the future. He is going to be a fine defensive 3rd line center, Is that what you purposely trade down from a lottery pick for ? There were better options available for a team that struggles mightly offensively. Filatov, Wilson, Boedker & Hodgson were rated higher than Bailey for a reason.

Don't let Hodgson being sent back to junior hockey sway your judgement, Vancouver is way more stacked in the forward position than the Isles, Hodgson would be our #2 center RIGHT NOW. Filatov is playing on a playoff team, also getting less icetime for the same reason (and yet, still has 5 goals in 12 games, a 35 game pace). i just have a bad feeling about the Bailey pick, just like I did with Scott Scissons, when we missed out on some elite talent.
The question to what a player will develop into is valid for all prospects. I'm not defedning one pick over another, and I too have similar concerns. However, to say he doesn't have offensive talent is inaccurate. The kid put up 96 points in his draft year. That was more than Hodgson. Going into the draft there were long-term scoring potential questions regarding Hodgson, Wilson, and Bailey. IMO (not being swayed by Hodgson getting sent down), the other forwards drafted have not showed elite scoring potential since being drafted.

Furthermore, in the 2003 draft, most of the pre-draft reports I read had Nilsson as being more offensively gifted than Parise for instance. In fact, he got drafted for his "offensive instincts and skills" over Parise. We all know how that turned out.

Last year Bailey showed some superb vision and passing skills in spurts. So the potential to be a very good assist man at the NHL level is there. Now the issue becomes about developing them. I think being sent down to the AHL for the full year, or until he gets going offensively would be the best course of action for Bailey. But with long-term potential, I think he has as much as any of the other forwards drafted before and after him, because nobody has separated yet. As far as I'm concerned they're all too raw to judge at this moment.

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10-22-2009, 01:52 PM
  #65
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I wouldn't say Filatov is struggling, 5 NHL goals in 12 games is far from struggling (35 goal season pace).
I believe the previous poster was referring to Filatov this season, who has one goal in 4 games and hasn't been able to crack the Blue Jackets line-up regularly, although many thought he'd be a regular on a scoring line. He's young, small and has MUCH to work on in order to hold down a spot in an NHL line-up.

I'd say he's struggling - to at least meet many people's expectations. None of this says anything about his long-term potential though, which is what many here seem to be saying about Bailey too.

And it's fair.

As others have mentioned, it's not like Schenn, Boedker or Wilson are tearing things apart right now and if you had chatted with Vancouver fans a month ago about Hodgson, you'd have heard a chorus of "sure thing rookie of the year baby" coming from the northwest part of the continent. Uhhh, so where's their second coming now?

They should all be fine players at some point.

I for one am disappointed with Bailey this year because he seems to forgetting to keep things simple. It's like he's thinking he should be Savard or Gomez out there, but he needs to be Bailey and do what's easiest and smartest. He's had lots of problems along to boards and he just hasn't been a proactive factor. He looks like he's a step behind everyone else too at times. Every opponent thus far has been able to show him his limits and expose a weak spot.

I believe he will be fine, but it would have been nicer if he had just come out like gangbusters. It hasn't been and he's obviously fighting with himself and has little confidence.

Hard to keep even-keeled at the age of 19/20 when things just aren't going like you thought they would.

As stated in other posts, I just can't wait to see Comeau-Bailey-Okposo again.

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10-22-2009, 02:03 PM
  #66
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I doubt he'll ever be a 1st or 2nd line center, though on the Isles, he probably will be a 2nd line center. he's just not offensively gifted, and that's what the Isles needed then, and need now, and in the future. He is going to be a fine defensive 3rd line center, Is that what you purposely trade down from a lottery pick for ?
Josh Bailey is not a defensive player and will not develop into a defensive center in this league unless something drastic happens. His defensive game was piss poor last year. This year it is getting to where it needs to be but still not there. He is a lot like Tim Connolly was at age 18 and 19.

His offensive game is there its just not of a sniper. He is a playmaker now and if he plays in this league in 6 years he will then also be a playmaker playing on either the first or second line.

Im not too concerned about bailey yet.

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10-22-2009, 02:44 PM
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Josh Bailey is not a defensive player and will not develop into a defensive center in this league unless something drastic happens. His defensive game was piss poor last year. This year it is getting to where it needs to be but still not there. He is a lot like Tim Connolly was at age 18 and 19.

His offensive game is there its just not of a sniper. He is a playmaker now and if he plays in this league in 6 years he will then also be a playmaker playing on either the first or second line.

Im not too concerned about bailey yet.
I don't think he'll be a defensive player, per se, but I do expect him to be defensively responsible. Bailey's an offensive player with great vision - that's why he'll be in the NHL. He'll never be a shut-down center but that's not what his strengths are and not why he was picked.

Positionally, he will be a responsible defensive center - I don't doubt that. His failures at this stage are largely due to age and experience, not ability. We'll continue to see mistakes from all our young forwards. Hopefully, they will begin to diminish.

Mistakes from an under 22 player is understandable....when you get a lot of mistakes from your vets as well - then you have a last place team, unfortunately.

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10-22-2009, 02:52 PM
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I don't think he'll be a defensive player, per se, but I do expect him to be defensively responsible. Bailey's an offensive player with great vision - that's why he'll be in the NHL. He'll never be a shut-down center but that's not what his strengths are and not why he was picked.

Positionally, he will be a responsible defensive center - I don't doubt that. His failures at this stage are largely due to age and experience, not ability. We'll continue to see mistakes from all our young forwards. Hopefully, they will begin to diminish.

Mistakes from an under 22 player is understandable....when you get a lot of mistakes from your vets as well - then you have a last place team, unfortunately.
I sort of agree. Reading the pre-draft scouting reports makes you think he was going to be a two way player. I think ultimately he develops into an offensive player with a sound defensive game like you said rather then a Selke type guy.

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11-13-2009, 09:54 PM
  #69
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Would it really be the worst thing in the world for Josh & the franchise for Josh to spend some time in the AHL this year?

He's shooting more which is great, but I think he could benefit from getting 1st line minutes in the AHL for a couple of weeks. I realize with Weight out the team is a bit thinner, but Weight hasn't been playing much center/been productive this year anyway.

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11-14-2009, 09:02 AM
  #70
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Would it really be the worst thing in the world for Josh & the franchise for Josh to spend some time in the AHL this year?

No it wouldn't.
I'd hope Snow isn't so thin skinned, that he'd be more worried about the pr hit of demoting Bailey,then with getting the kid's development on track.

Bailey seems like a smart,down to earth youngster.I'd expect him to do what Comeau did when he was demoted last yr:go to Bridgeport,work hard and earn a call up to the nyi.

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11-14-2009, 11:13 AM
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After Bailey was scratched against Carolina, and seeing a game from the press box for the first time, I expect him to come out and have a little jump to his game against Florida. That aspect has been missing or at least not consistent. He needs to SHOOT!!! He has one of the better shots on the team and needs to show it.

Scratching Bailey for a game is fine. But I think it would be a mistake to do it regularly. Send him down to AHL for a while and let him be there #1 guy instead of scratching him again. I also think he needs to develop some more strength and learn how to lower his shoulder along the boards and leverage himself better.

Just for kicks why not put him out on wing with Tavares and Moulson on power play a few times or even 5 on 5 in practice just to see if there is anything there? There seemed to be some chemistry gelling with Bailey and Okposo at the end of last year so why not try a Bailey - Tavares - KO power play line?

You can see the talent with Bailey but he may the type of player who plays to the level of the quality of his linemates. Put him with Park and Jackman and you will get a fourth line player. Put him on top, maybe we see something else.


Last edited by On Edge: 11-14-2009 at 11:20 AM.
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11-14-2009, 11:46 AM
  #72
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Tavares with Moulson and Bailey would be a bad idea. Tavares and Josh Bailey like to work in the same area on the pp. Plus they are all lefty shots. The opposition could essentially ignore the left circle.

If you want Bailey to put up points put him on a line with Okposo or Hunter. To me I thought he has played fine thus far. Points are not there but those will come, he has played fine terms of coverage in the defensive zone and that to me in a young center is very important and very hard for them to actually "get."

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11-14-2009, 12:37 PM
  #73
BillD
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After Bailey was scratched against Carolina, and seeing a game from the press box for the first time, I expect him to come out and have a little jump to his game against Florida. That aspect has been missing or at least not consistent. He needs to SHOOT!!! He has one of the better shots on the team and needs to show it.
Scratching Bailey for a game is fine. But I think it would be a mistake to do it regularly. Send him down to AHL for a while and let him be there #1 guy instead of scratching him again. I also think he needs to develop some more strength and learn how to lower his shoulder along the boards and leverage himself better.

Just for kicks why not put him out on wing with Tavares and Moulson on power play a few times or even 5 on 5 in practice just to see if there is anything there? There seemed to be some chemistry gelling with Bailey and Okposo at the end of last year so why not try a Bailey - Tavares - KO power play line?

You can see the talent with Bailey but he may the type of player who plays to the level of the quality of his linemates. Put him with Park and Jackman and you will get a fourth line player. Put him on top, maybe we see something else.
I have to disagree with that. From what I have seen when he does shoot, Bailey does not possess an NHL shot. He has gotten some decent ones on net, but he has no real velocity.

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11-14-2009, 01:11 PM
  #74
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Most of his goals came from NHL quality shots. And thats just his goals that you can easily go back to and take a look at, there are more they are just not that easy to look up. He is pretty deadly from that right circle on the power play.

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11-14-2009, 01:15 PM
  #75
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I have to disagree with that. From what I have seen when he does shoot, Bailey does not possess an NHL shot. He has gotten some decent ones on net, but he has no real velocity.
Bailey can fire the puck on slappers and snap shots. I don't think his wrist shot is strong.

Remember his goal in Ottawa last year? The release and speed was so fast it was Bossyesque.

However, the velocity of his shots are inconsistent but same can be said with both of our JT's.

The kid is young and will do fine as he matures.

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