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Why a team in Quebec City is good for the Habs

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Old
10-11-2009, 01:44 AM
  #1
HockeyF3ind
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Why a team in Quebec City is good for the Habs

Learning about the real possibility of a team coming back to Quebec City brought a smile to my face. I didn't smile because I'm beholden to some nationalistic desire to have more teams in Canada or Quebec, nor because I have any specific love for Quebec City, but rather I smiled because I'm a habs fan.

Having another team in Quebec City will seriously benefit the habs because it will provide Quebecers with another team to focus their attention and energy on, thereby defusing (to a degree) the intense amount of the scrutiny and pressure that the Habs face from the hockey mad fans and media of Quebec.

More importantly it will provide the separatist anglophobe francophones (and I'm not lumping all francophones in this category but there are indeed sizeable number) a franchise to spend their language policing energy on, especially considering that Quebec City is entirely French and not split with English as is the case in Montreal. Not being able to speak French in Montreal while being contentious is still somewhat understandable, but not speaking French in Quebec City is certainly not. By virtue of that train of thought I believe the language issue will become mostly a thing of the past for habs, as the assimilation alarmist will rail against the lack of French in their Capital before they ever get around to making a stink about it in bilingual Montreal.

Lastly, having a local rivalry will encourage more competition and mean the Habs don't have to travel nearly as far in a given season, since a team in Quebec City will no doubt be a division rival and will be much closer than any of the other places the Habs would have to travel to to play games against division rivals.

What about you? Do you agree with this analysis or not?


Last edited by HockeyF3ind: 10-11-2009 at 02:08 AM.
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10-11-2009, 01:49 AM
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Were you at the same party as me tonight? We were talking about the exact same thing. The Nordiques would definitely make the habs more competitive. They would have to be in order to avoid embarassment at the hands of their rivals.

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10-11-2009, 01:51 AM
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I think you make sense. I really hope this happens so we can get back to not only the battle of Quebec, but also at least some of the idiots leaving the habs beat to report on the nords.

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10-11-2009, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by airic000 View Post
Were you at the same party as me tonight? We were talking about the exact same thing. The Nordiques would definitely make the habs more competitive. They would have to be in order to avoid embarassment at the hands of their rivals.
No I was at work in Vancouver when I heard! But I guess great minds think alike....or else the obvious is exactly that...obvious. I just thought I'd articulate it for these boards.

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10-11-2009, 08:19 AM
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Just look at the Habs from 1985-1994. Pretty good and they won a round just about every year, motivated by trying to not be overshadowed by Quebec, which happened from 1981-85 when they lost their cup winning mojo and the Battle of Quebec was borne out of a couple hard series losses and a bloody series win in between. The Habs conquered as the Nords floundered badly from 1987-92 but then they improved. Sadly it was snatched away in 1995 and the Habs went into a tailspin with all eyes now on them.

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10-11-2009, 10:39 AM
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I don't think the intense scrutiny will get any weaker on the Habs. They'll just hire new people for the Nords, and add a page to the newspaper, 1/2 for the Nords, and 1/2 for the rivalry.

However, having a rival is very good for intensity. Toronto is our current rival, but isn't much of a test.

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10-11-2009, 11:35 AM
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The thing is Quebec City is not nearly as susceptible as Montreal on language issue.

The freak show will stay in Montreal.

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10-11-2009, 11:57 AM
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I don't care, I just want exciting hockey.

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10-11-2009, 05:35 PM
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I was going to make a thread on whether a team can survive in Quebec because of the Language issue. But you've touched on it here so I will continue here.

Do you think Quebec can support a team becuase of the French Language issue? ie most of the players won't speak french. and they wouldn't have a pipeline for french players for a very long time. (if they drafted some french prospects, it would take 5-10 years before any were realistic, then it might be 1 or 2 that make it).

Can they survive in a francophone market with an anglophone product?

I only remember the Statsny brothers from the Nordique days. But was it ever an issue back then? Did the have many french players? I'm sorry if these seem like idiotic questions but I was just a kid then and I don't pretend to understand the language issue in Quebec.

I know the media here has given players like Saku a hard time over not learning french. I can imagine it would only be worse in QC where you don't have the half english population. How will they treat their players, will they have that expectation?

If so, will it negatively affect their ability to attract UFA considering they would have a hard time navigating in a predominantly french city?

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10-11-2009, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
I was going to make a thread on whether a team can survive in Quebec because of the Language issue. But you've touched on it here so I will continue here.

Do you think Quebec can support a team becuase of the French Language issue? ie most of the players won't speak french. and they wouldn't have a pipeline for french players for a very long time. (if they drafted some french prospects, it would take 5-10 years before any were realistic, then it might be 1 or 2 that make it).

Can they survive in a francophone market with an anglophone product?

I only remember the Statsny brothers from the Nordique days. But was it ever an issue back then? Did the have many french players? I'm sorry if these seem like idiotic questions but I was just a kid then and I don't pretend to understand the language issue in Quebec.

I know the media here has given players like Saku a hard time over not learning french. I can imagine it would only be worse in QC where you don't have the half english population. How will they treat their players, will they have that expectation?

If so, will it negatively affect their ability to attract UFA considering they would have a hard time navigating in a predominantly french city?
Its kinda strange that you remember the statsny brothers with the nords but not joe sakic, mats sundin, peter forsberg, owen nolan, adam foote.....

but yeah kinda like in Montreal there was always some pressure to get some french players on the team especially when they were losing, it wasnt much of an issue in winning seasons. There were some critics even for great guys like sakic about living here for 4-5 years and not speaking french, but he did one french radio commercial for a chrysler dealership

Getting UFA was very hard even back then cause of the language, the awful weather in the winter, the awful team performance.

For the players the french aspect of the city wasnt a big deal but it was for the wifes and kids cause there almost nothing going on in english in the city (no english newspaper, no english radio/tv to watch the games, hell its almost impossible to see a english movie in a theatre here. Of course with the internet now the world is a smaller palce and you have access to anything you want but still.

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Old
10-11-2009, 06:34 PM
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I was thinking about what it would be if, by any luck, the Tampa Bay Lightning would come to Quebec. I remember all the disastrous years in Montreal with no depth and even now, we still don't have any superstars, nor great Quebec players.

So I asked myself ; would I be following both teams, Quebec and Montreal? Or with Lecavalier and St.Louis there, would my heart goes with Quebec and leave Montreal back, even if I'm a long time fan and stayed during all those rough years.

I still can't answer myself.

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10-11-2009, 06:45 PM
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I was thinking about what it would be if, by any luck, the Tampa Bay Lightning would come to Quebec. I remember all the disastrous years in Montreal with no depth and even now, we still don't have any superstars, nor great Quebec players.

So I asked myself ; would I be following both teams, Quebec and Montreal? Or with Lecavalier and St.Louis there, would my heart goes with Quebec and leave Montreal back, even if I'm a long time fan and stayed during all those rough years.

I still can't answer myself.
right now I don't like Lecav at all so if he play for Quebec it will be worse and my top3 of the players that I hate the most will be

1-Komisarek
2-Lecav
3-Lucic

and if Quebec come back they will be the team i hate the most for sure, still I would love to hate them

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Old
10-11-2009, 07:10 PM
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Would of any you guys (who are not from Quebec city area) want to play in Quebec city unless it was your last option?

I am decently bilingual so language wouldn't be an issue... but lets be honest, the city is pretty isolated and lacks "diversity" that could be found in any other city of its size.

It is still very charming, and rich with history... but as for everyday life, I'm not sure it's my cup of tea.

Anyways, hope it happens... the team will need to draft wisely.

ps: Ottawa is closer than Quebec city.

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10-11-2009, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Would of any you guys (who are not from Quebec city area) want to play in Quebec city unless it was your last option?

I am decently bilingual so language wouldn't be an issue... but lets be honest, the city is pretty isolated and lacks "diversity" that could be found in any other city of its size.

It is still very charming, and rich with history... but as for everyday life, I'm not sure it's my cup of tea.

Anyways, hope it happens... the team will need to draft wisely.

ps: Ottawa is closer than Quebec city.
Honestly, would you rather play in Atlanta, Buffalo, Phoenix, Edmonton, Calgary, Columbus, Nashville? Not sure you'll find much diversity there.

Depends on what is your everyday life too I guess.

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10-11-2009, 07:37 PM
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Honestly, would you rather play in Atlanta, Buffalo, Phoenix, Edmonton, Calgary, Columbus, Nashville? Not sure you'll find much diversity there.

Depends on what is your everyday life too I guess.
Are you kidding? If I had the choice I would bolt to Calgary or even EDM before QC wihtout even thinking twice, and im bilingual.. Both those cities offer more in terms of life than QC. And Columbus is a great hockey market. I would go there before QC as well.

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10-11-2009, 07:41 PM
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Are you kidding? If I had the choice I would bolt to Calgary or even EDM before QC wihtout even thinking twice, and im bilingual.. Both those cities offer more in terms of life than QC. And Columbus is a great hockey market. I would go there before QC as well.
You choose. I would never go to Alberta, neither in Columbus.

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10-11-2009, 07:43 PM
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You choose. I would never go to Alberta, neither in Columbus.
Are you from the Quebec city area?

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10-11-2009, 07:49 PM
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Are you from the Quebec city area?
No ; Montreal area, and I would never live (again) on the Montreal Island.

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10-11-2009, 08:25 PM
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Learning about the real possibility of a team coming back to Quebec City brought a smile to my face. I didn't smile because I'm beholden to some nationalistic desire to have more teams in Canada or Quebec, nor because I have any specific love for Quebec City, but rather I smiled because I'm a habs fan.

Having another team in Quebec City will seriously benefit the habs because it will provide Quebecers with another team to focus their attention and energy on, thereby defusing (to a degree) the intense amount of the scrutiny and pressure that the Habs face from the hockey mad fans and media of Quebec.

More importantly it will provide the separatist anglophobe francophones (and I'm not lumping all francophones in this category but there are indeed sizeable number) a franchise to spend their language policing energy on, especially considering that Quebec City is entirely French and not split with English as is the case in Montreal. Not being able to speak French in Montreal while being contentious is still somewhat understandable, but not speaking French in Quebec City is certainly not. By virtue of that train of thought I believe the language issue will become mostly a thing of the past for habs, as the assimilation alarmist will rail against the lack of French in their Capital before they ever get around to making a stink about it in bilingual Montreal.

Lastly, having a local rivalry will encourage more competition and mean the Habs don't have to travel nearly as far in a given season, since a team in Quebec City will no doubt be a division rival and will be much closer than any of the other places the Habs would have to travel to to play games against division rivals.

What about you? Do you agree with this analysis or not?
You make some good points. I have always felt that the Habs would benefit from a team in Quebec City. It splits the fanbase resulting in less pressure on Montreal. Also the rivalry would be good.

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10-11-2009, 10:37 PM
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I think you're drawing a short-sighted conclusion. While Montreal definitely is a more diverse city than Quebec City is, francophones in the greater Montreal area are much more separatist than francophones in Quebec City (for example, PQ leaders said the 1995 referendum was actually lost because of poor support for the "Oui" in Quebec City). And Montreal francophones are die-hard Canadiens fans, and used to hate the Nordiques. They would definitely not become Nordiques fans overnight The Canadiens-Nordiques rivalry used to cause fights between francophones. And also, don't forget the Canadiens are the team Maurice Richard played for, becoming an icon of the French Canadian struggle of the 1960s, that ultimately led to the rise of the separation movement.

A lot of people share your opinion because the Canadiens are called the Canadiens and the Nordiques had fleur-de-lys on their jerseys but it's not a valid conclusion at all.

By the way, just to make myself clear, I'm not complaining about the number of francophones on the Canadiens at all. I'm just explaining that it's not a controversy that would magically drive itself over to Quebec City if they got a team. If anything, I think Quebec City getting a team would put the francophone players controversy even more under the spotlight here in Montreal because it would become a question of which team has the most francophone players or whatever.

Obviously I realize having two teams in Quebec would have to lead to less heat on the Canadiens. But it would not change the language issue at all, as I've explained.

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10-11-2009, 10:45 PM
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I think you're drawing a short-sighted conclusion. While Montreal definitely is a more diverse city than Quebec City is, francophones in the greater Montreal area are much more separatist than francophones in Quebec City (for example, PQ leaders said the 1995 referendum was actually lost because of poor support for the "Oui" in Quebec City). And Montreal francophones are die-hard Canadiens fans, and used to hate the Nordiques. They would definitely not become Nordiques fans overnight The Canadiens-Nordiques rivalry used to cause fights between francophones. And also, don't forget the Canadiens are the team Maurice Richard played for, becoming an icon of the French Canadian struggle of the 1960s, that ultimately led to the rise of the separation movement.

A lot of people share your opinion because the Canadiens are called the Canadiens and the Nordiques had fleur-de-lys on their jerseys but it's not a valid conclusion at all.

By the way, just to make myself clear, I'm not complaining about the number of francophones on the Canadiens at all. I'm just explaining that it's not a controversy that would magically drive itself over to Quebec City if they got a team. If anything, I think Quebec City getting a team would put the francophone players controversy even more under the spotlight here in Montreal because it would become a question of which team has the most francophone players or whatever.

Obviously I realize having two teams in Quebec would have to lead to less heat on the Canadiens. But it would not change the language issue at all, as I've explained.
Interesting suff. Good post.

Do you think that the lack of a team in Qc over the last 15 years or so might off-set that trend though?

Seems to me if Qc got a team guys like Réjean T. and Bertrand Raymond would have a "more suitable" place to play their policital game no?

I mean, 15 years does change a lot and Habs fans are thirsty for a winning team big-time right now. Montreal as a city has also changed quite a bit since the Nordiques moved.

Not saying you're wrong just wondering if your POV is still applicable in today's reality because cities are not a static but rather a constantly evolving environment.

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10-11-2009, 11:12 PM
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Interesting suff. Good post.

Do you think that the lack of a team in Qc over the last 15 years or so might off-set that trend though?

Seems to me if Qc got a team guys like Réjean T. and Bertrand Raymond would have a "more suitable" place to play their policital game no?

I mean, 15 years does change a lot and Habs fans are thirsty for a winning team big-time right now. Montreal as a city has also changed quite a bit since the Nordiques moved.

Not saying you're wrong just wondering if your POV is still applicable in today's reality because cities are not a static but rather a constantly evolving environment.
Réjean Tremblay and Bertrand Raymond worked in Montreal covering the Canadiens when the Nordiques were around, I don't see why they would move over there if Quebec City gets a team. The way I see it, those guys' job isn't to play the political game, it's basically to stir the pot and sell the newspapers. Controversy sells, as everyone knows. In the past 5 years, it seems like the "hot topic" has been the language issue for them. As I've said, I think if the Nordiques had more francophone players than the Canadiens, their way of stirring the pot would be to complain about that.

Of course things evolve and change but I don't think they changed enough to make a difference. The greater Montreal area is a huge market and even if the Nordiques attracted all hockey fans north of Trois-Rivières (which they wouldn't), the Canadiens would still hold more than half of the population of the province. They would still be the big market team, and they would still have a predominantly francophone fanbase.

The only difference would be they'd have another team fighting them for the francophone fans attention. That's why I said giving the Canadiens such an opponent would probably end up putting the francophone question even more under the spotlight than it is right now. The Canadiens would actually have to fight for francophone fans. Without the Nordiques they don't have to.

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10-11-2009, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by lhf1 View Post
I think you're drawing a short-sighted conclusion. While Montreal definitely is a more diverse city than Quebec City is, francophones in the greater Montreal area are much more separatist than francophones in Quebec City (for example, PQ leaders said the 1995 referendum was actually lost because of poor support for the "Oui" in Quebec City). And Montreal francophones are die-hard Canadiens fans, and used to hate the Nordiques. They would definitely not become Nordiques fans overnight The Canadiens-Nordiques rivalry used to cause fights between francophones. And also, don't forget the Canadiens are the team Maurice Richard played for, becoming an icon of the French Canadian struggle of the 1960s, that ultimately led to the rise of the separation movement.

A lot of people share your opinion because the Canadiens are called the Canadiens and the Nordiques had fleur-de-lys on their jerseys but it's not a valid conclusion at all.

By the way, just to make myself clear, I'm not complaining about the number of francophones on the Canadiens at all. I'm just explaining that it's not a controversy that would magically drive itself over to Quebec City if they got a team. If anything, I think Quebec City getting a team would put the francophone players controversy even more under the spotlight here in Montreal because it would become a question of which team has the most francophone players or whatever.

Obviously I realize having two teams in Quebec would have to lead to less heat on the Canadiens. But it would not change the language issue at all, as I've explained.
I wanted to post something similar, but I'm happy that you did it for me! I'll just add a few points :

- The Canadiens have always been the "French" team even before Maurice Richard. In opposition, the Maroons were the "English" team, so the French roots and history of the Montreal Canadiens would not magically disappear.

- And you are right that Montreal and Quebec would probably be in competition to get more francophones than the other team. It was the case in the 80's, and both teams always had at least 10 Quebecers playing for them. The good news about this is that it would probably motivate the teams to support financially the minor and junior leagues all around Quebec, so they can develop home grown talent. I think it would be good news considering how much minor and junior hockey is declining in Quebec.

And for those who believe people will one day stop wanting more local players, forget that! No city in the world would be indifferent to that. People here are just a little more passionate...

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Old
10-12-2009, 12:03 AM
  #24
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and plus the habs won their last cup when there was a team still in Que City

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10-12-2009, 12:08 AM
  #25
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Honestly, would you rather play in Atlanta, Buffalo, Phoenix, Edmonton, Calgary, Columbus, Nashville? Not sure you'll find much diversity there.

Depends on what is your everyday life too I guess.
Lol I think many people would actually chose one of those cities before QC

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