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Horton or Frolov

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Old
04-09-2004, 11:43 AM
  #1
TeamPlayer
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Horton or Frolov

Who will score more GOALS yearly, during their career?

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Old
04-09-2004, 12:30 PM
  #2
Qubax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanman
Who will score more GOALS yearly, during their career?
I would say Nathan Horton

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Old
04-09-2004, 12:55 PM
  #3
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Sorry but its Frolov....

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Old
04-09-2004, 12:56 PM
  #4
willie
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Goals? I would lean towards Horton.

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Old
04-09-2004, 01:05 PM
  #5
KingPurpleDinosaur
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Horton will prob get more goals, frolov may get more assists. In points, I think horton may edge frolov out.

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Old
04-09-2004, 01:25 PM
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I'm going to have to go with Nathan because the fact is he scored 14 goals in an injury riddle season and if he had not been injured he could have put up 25 goals.

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Old
04-09-2004, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffshaf
I'm going to have to go with Nathan because the fact is he scored 14 goals in an injury riddle season and if he had not been injured he could have put up 25 goals.

How about the injury? I first heard he needed like 6 months and surgery. Whats the update?

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04-09-2004, 01:30 PM
  #8
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Hortie

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Old
04-09-2004, 01:30 PM
  #9
Fedz
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Goals - Horton.
Best All Around Player - Frolov.

I honestly see Frolov playing like a Peter Forsberg. He reminds me so much of him.

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04-09-2004, 01:34 PM
  #10
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Horton will get more goals, but I would rather have Frolov on my team. Horton's injuries scare me, and I believe they become a problem for him....

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Old
04-09-2004, 01:38 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffshaf
I'm going to have to go with Nathan because the fact is he scored 14 goals in an injury riddle season and if he had not been injured he could have put up 25 goals.
Exactly why i'm going with Frolov. No offense to Horton, I just think injuries are going to follow this kid throughout his career. I've taken a lot of heat for this stance, but it's just my opinion so lay off.

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Old
04-09-2004, 01:41 PM
  #12
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I would take Frolov for goals , points and overall. If he had a true # 1 centre for the 2nd half of the season he would already have a 30 goal season under his belt.

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Old
04-09-2004, 01:45 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caniacforever
Exactly why i'm going with Frolov. No offense to Horton, I just think injuries are going to follow this kid throughout his career. I've taken a lot of heat for this stance, but it's just my opinion so lay off.
Here we go again!

Horton does not have injury problems. That's like saying Steve Moore is injury prone. He had a fluke injury that he absolutely could not have avoided. He was supposed to have surgery and miss 6 months, but the doctors exact words were "Super human gains in strength and motion". Due to the fact he was rehabbing so quickly, they decided to go with rehab instead of surgery. This came back later in the season and they decided to do the surgery for real this time and have him ready for next season.

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Old
04-09-2004, 01:47 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilya Esquire
I would take Frolov for goals , points and overall. If he had a true # 1 centre for the 2nd half of the season he would already have a 30 goal season under his belt.
At the same time, Horton is nearly 3 years younger with nothing close to a #1 center and he would have scored 25 goals if not for the injuries.

I think we are better off waiting to see how Horton is developed in 2 or 3 years and compare that to where Frolov is now.

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Old
04-09-2004, 01:52 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadite
How about the injury? I first heard he needed like 6 months and surgery. Whats the update?
no, he had surgery and is now rehabbing now, he's going to be back to normal whenever the season starts.

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Old
04-09-2004, 01:53 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luongofan
At the same time, Horton is nearly 3 years younger with nothing close to a #1 center and he would have scored 25 goals if not for the injuries.

I think we are better off waiting to see how Horton is developed in 2 or 3 years and compare that to where Frolov is now.
:gman: even though we both know Horton will b the best

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Old
04-09-2004, 02:02 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luongofan
Here we go again!

Haha! I agree. I think we're following each other around on these boards providing differant opinions of Horton. Next time you reply to a subject about Horton, PM me and i'll go give my insight. I'll do the same.


Anyways, what I think makes for durability in a player is the ability to get up after a freak play like that and keep plugging away. Erik Cole is that type of player. He'll leave the ice after a freak incident or a nasty high stick and come back out for his next shift and not miss a beat. Horton just seems fragile. It's not for his lack of trying, either. He seems to have a boatload of heart and desire to play the game but that doesn't take away at all from his fragility, in my opinion. Honestly, I love his ability when he's healthy, but the same can be said about Zigmund Palffy as well. The differant between an injury prone player and a durable player is the ability to get up and walk away from the "freak accidents" that Horton has fallen victim to in his early career. Just my two cents.

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Old
04-09-2004, 03:53 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caniacforever
Haha! I agree. I think we're following each other around on these boards providing differant opinions of Horton. Next time you reply to a subject about Horton, PM me and i'll go give my insight. I'll do the same.


Anyways, what I think makes for durability in a player is the ability to get up after a freak play like that and keep plugging away. Erik Cole is that type of player. He'll leave the ice after a freak incident or a nasty high stick and come back out for his next shift and not miss a beat. Horton just seems fragile. It's not for his lack of trying, either. He seems to have a boatload of heart and desire to play the game but that doesn't take away at all from his fragility, in my opinion. Honestly, I love his ability when he's healthy, but the same can be said about Zigmund Palffy as well. The differant between an injury prone player and a durable player is the ability to get up and walk away from the "freak accidents" that Horton has fallen victim to in his early career. Just my two cents.

I'm really sorry but do you realize how down right stupid that sounds? Basically you're saying that if 2 guys dive into a shallow end of a pool and 1 catches his head wtong and breaks his neck and the other guy does the same thing but somehow his head hits at a different angle and just winds up with a sprained neck and a skinned forhead that the first guy is just more injury prone than the second?

There's a big difference between guys that are injury prone and a guy who can't get up from every freak circumstance (which btw is pure luck.....trust me, I know).

I mean good grief, Horton had 1 injury and now he's fragile cause it was more than a short stint on the DL.

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Old
04-09-2004, 06:45 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b-mad
I'm really sorry but do you realize how down right stupid that sounds? Basically you're saying that if 2 guys dive into a shallow end of a pool and 1 catches his head wtong and breaks his neck and the other guy does the same thing but somehow his head hits at a different angle and just winds up with a sprained neck and a skinned forhead that the first guy is just more injury prone than the second?

There's a big difference between guys that are injury prone and a guy who can't get up from every freak circumstance (which btw is pure luck.....trust me, I know).

I mean good grief, Horton had 1 injury and now he's fragile cause it was more than a short stint on the DL.
Pardon me, but that sounds insane to me as well. Injuries aren't as unscientific as you're making them sound with the pool analogy. Players in this league should know how to take a check by the time they get to this level. It has nothing to do with two equally stupid incidents and one player coming out better. If you've seen an injury prone player play, you'd know what i'm talking about. Players like Straka, Palffy, Deadmarsh, Allison, Bure and Lindros often times injure themselves in incidents that you wouldn't often see as harmful. Broken Jaw, Torn Shoulder, Wrist Sprain, Hamstring Pull, Broken Ankle and a host of other injuries that could have probably been avoided with either using good judgement, bracing better for a check, or simply slowing down.


This isn't Horton's first injury, for the record. He broke his jaw in a fight with now fellow Florida Panther Anthony Stewart. That's the judgement variable i'm talking about. Also, he already went out one time this year with a banged up shoulder and decided to come back, which wasn't smart. One could argue that him going out with the same shoulder this year could be considered his second season ending injury this year. Even though the broken jaw didn't keep him out the entire year, many scouts frowned upon the fact that he didn't take the proper time to rehabilitate it and it caused him an immense amount of pain and lack of production in his final year in junior. Before we have to define lack of production, he didn't produce as well as some expected him to. Not compared to other prospects. He also didn't take the proper amount of time to rehabilitate this shoulder injury, and it cost him again. Are we noticing a pattern here?


So that's two years in a row for Horton that he missed a significant amount of time with an injury that he probably should have sat out with. I can understand the desire to get back out and play, but not at the expense of your health. If it's at the expense of your health, it's at the expense of the team and it's selfish play. If Horton plays 70+ games next season i'll get off his case. Until then, i'm perfectly within reason to assume he's injury prone. Whether it's your opinion or not.


So please, if you have anything constructive to add in opposition to these deductions, then feel free to add them. If you're just going to say "do you realize how stupid that sounds?" please save your typing time. I'm quite tired of having to endure that type of thing when the poster either doesn't have enough proof to end my arguments or doesn't have enough restraint to attack the points instead of the poster.

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Old
04-09-2004, 07:19 PM
  #20
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If Andy Murray is still coach of the Kings Horton will score more goals, once Andy Murray leaves Frolov will score more.

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Old
04-09-2004, 09:28 PM
  #21
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now-Frolov
future-Horton

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Old
04-10-2004, 08:28 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caniacforever
Pardon me, but that sounds insane to me as well. Injuries aren't as unscientific as you're making them sound with the pool analogy. Players in this league should know how to take a check by the time they get to this level. It has nothing to do with two equally stupid incidents and one player coming out better. If you've seen an injury prone player play, you'd know what i'm talking about. Players like Straka, Palffy, Deadmarsh, Allison, Bure and Lindros often times injure themselves in incidents that you wouldn't often see as harmful. Broken Jaw, Torn Shoulder, Wrist Sprain, Hamstring Pull, Broken Ankle and a host of other injuries that could have probably been avoided with either using good judgement, bracing better for a check, or simply slowing down.

This isn't Horton's first injury, for the record. He broke his jaw in a fight with now fellow Florida Panther Anthony Stewart. That's the judgement variable i'm talking about. Also, he already went out one time this year with a banged up shoulder and decided to come back, which wasn't smart. One could argue that him going out with the same shoulder this year could be considered his second season ending injury this year. Even though the broken jaw didn't keep him out the entire year, many scouts frowned upon the fact that he didn't take the proper time to rehabilitate it and it caused him an immense amount of pain and lack of production in his final year in junior. Before we have to define lack of production, he didn't produce as well as some expected him to. Not compared to other prospects. He also didn't take the proper amount of time to rehabilitate this shoulder injury, and it cost him again. Are we noticing a pattern here?

So that's two years in a row for Horton that he missed a significant amount of time with an injury that he probably should have sat out with. I can understand the desire to get back out and play, but not at the expense of your health. If it's at the expense of your health, it's at the expense of the team and it's selfish play. If Horton plays 70+ games next season i'll get off his case. Until then, i'm perfectly within reason to assume he's injury prone. Whether it's your opinion or not.

So please, if you have anything constructive to add in opposition to these deductions, then feel free to add them. If you're just going to say "do you realize how stupid that sounds?" please save your typing time. I'm quite tired of having to endure that type of thing when the poster either doesn't have enough proof to end my arguments or doesn't have enough restraint to attack the points instead of the poster.
Since you opened the door with statement about injuries being unscientific, let me ask you this question, "ARE YOU AN *** DOCTOR??" Cause if you're not, your opinion doesn't mean as much as a doctor (specifically an orthopedic surgeon) and you shouldn't label a rookie as injury prone. If you are a doctor, then you should know by now that no 2 injuries are the same because no 2 patients are the same. I can tell you from my own experience that I tore my ACL in both my knees in separate incidents. The right one it took me over a yr to recover from. The left one took me less than 7 months, almost half the recovery time. Wanna know partially why? My orthopedic surgeon wanted me to do rehab since it didn't originally seem like a tear (when in fact it was a complete rupture). So I spent 3 weeks rehabbing that knee and when I had the surgery 4 weeks later, it took me just 6 days before I was walking without crutches. The right one had taken me over 7 weeks before I was walking without crutches. I have zero doubts that the extra rehab before sped up the recovery process. But that is not the whole story because technically the left knee was supposedly the worse of the 2 injured knees. Every 2 injuries are never the same and you can't say that Horton returning from it was wrong because his injury might've been different than another player. Saying Horton came back before he should have is not an informed opinion really, unless you are a doctor.

On your assumption that Horton could've avoided the injuries, I don't really know how that is possible. When you drop the gloves, you take a chance for an injury no question about it. But at least it shows that he's a real team player in my book. The injury this yr could NOT be blamed on him. He was driving to the net for a scoring chance and Sopel took him down. How could he have prevented that? By NOT trying to score????????? He could've prevented the injury if he had slid head-first into the boards...which ultimately would've given him a more likely worse injury (probably a concussion and that is much worse for hockey players). And you're suggesting he shouldn't play like a power foward as he's done so well in that role?? The guy was banging bodies all yr, even after the injury, and in doing so he aggrevated the injury. To label him injury prone is unfounded and inaccurate by all accounts.

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Old
04-10-2004, 10:20 AM
  #23
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I htink Frolov could be a (young) John Leclair type player-Horton's a young Bertuzzi(minus the Steve Moore incedent). If they wre in the same division, let alone conference, It would be one of the best future matchups in the NHL.Although if I had to pick-I'd go with Frolov. Ithink he'll have slight edge on Point Production-but it will be close

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Old
04-10-2004, 12:41 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanman
Who will score more GOALS yearly, during their career?
Nathan Horton! I'm surprised Horton is not a winger, he is a big goal scorer and not a playmaker.

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Old
04-10-2004, 01:01 PM
  #25
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I love Frolov...but Nathan Horton takes the cake.

Powerforward with good size and an edge to his game, very tough guy. Great hands, great scoring ability, creative, great vision, creative, passes very well, all around game.

Horton.

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