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Old
10-14-2009, 08:21 PM
  #1
Randall Ritchey
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[stl/ott]

In the Volchenkov to Washington thread, I brought up this proposal.
This deal is key on if Ottawa is out of the playoff race come deadline time and isn't on the right track in signing Anton Volchenkov.

It's a high possibility that he re-signs in Ottawa, but if their numbers are off, you never know.


TO ST. LOUIS : Anton Volchenkov
TO OTTAWA: B.J. Crombeen + Ian Cole + 1st


Cole, who is expected to not only make the jump from college next year, many believe him to jump right into the NHL. With Volchenkov being moved, the Senators could use another big hitting, solid two-way defensemen in their system and potentially patrolling their blue line next year.
Crombeen adds some grit to the club but also adds another bottom six shooter with the ability to score. They also receive a high pick. If they lose out this season, they might not move into a full fledged rebuild, but they are going to want to start building a solid core through the draft.

The Blues are getting to the point where they can move some assets to acquire someone who is going to help their team now. Volchenkov is a big hitting, solid shut down defensemen who will chip in 10-20 points a season. He'd look good beside Erik Johnson and if the team is moving into a playoff position, you are going to want experience. Volchenkov has been to the finals.
Yes, it's a risk for the Blues as Volchenkov is a up coming UFA. But if able to resign him, the Blues could very well have a solid top pairing in Johnson - Volchenkov for years to come.

As for the Blues defense, Brewer is going to be back by then, and we'll have a surplus of extra bodies. So we'll likely see a defensmen (Darryl Sydor) being waived to be sent to the minors when he returns. We then could waive Mike Weaver to make room for Sydor.

I don't think Alex Pietrangelo can be sent to Peoria later in the year as he started this season as a 19 year old. Correct me if I am wrong.

The Blues defense could look like this.

Erik Johnson - Anton Volchenkov
Roman Polak - Barret Jackman
Carlo Colaiacovo - Eric Brewer
Alex Pietrangelo

With this deal being at the deadline, trading Mike Weaver for a low pick, possibly a 7th? So he'd be off the payroll.


Don't bite my head off Ottawa fans. This is all on basis of if Ottawa doesn't think they can resign him. Obviously, if they do, this is null and void and really doesn't matter.

Thoughts?

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Old
10-14-2009, 08:27 PM
  #2
Joey McMoss
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Well Ottawa does have quite a few good defense prospects in the system so i'd think they'd want the 1st with more a bit more of an upgrade on Crombeen for a F..

Value is fair though.

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Old
10-14-2009, 08:30 PM
  #3
Asquaredx2
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The Sens' defensive prospect situation is so good it's silly: Cowen, Karlsson, Wiercioch, and Lee are all top-notch, and then we've got some depth behind that.

We don't need Cole, Lord knows we don't need any more bottom-6ers, and the 1st round pick is nice, I guess.

I don't think Ottawa will be out of the playoff picture at the deadline (heck, challenging for the division title seems like a more likely scenario), and I think it's even less likely that the Sens and Volchenkov would be far apart in talks, even if the Sens could potentially replace him with Cowen as early as next season.

If, however, that is the case, the Sens would want prospects with top-6 talent rather than pluggers or defence prospects. I'm tempted to ask for Lars Eller straight up (just based on the awesomeness of Volchenkov's last few hits) but I've seen some Blues fans anointing him as an upcoming superstar, so I doubt they'd be inclined to move him.

Palushaj has chemistry with our prospect Caporusso from College. Maybe Palushaj, a 1st, and a 2nd or 3rd would be what I'd ask for, but only in the case that there was no chance of re-signing Volchenkov and I didn't get better offers elsewhere (and neither did Brian Murray ).

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Old
10-14-2009, 08:35 PM
  #4
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I like this proposal.

I'd do it from a Sens perspective. Ian Cole would be a great addition to our defense pool.

We can use that first to draft a forward.

Crombeen is a cheap utility guy who brings great energy and toughness.

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10-14-2009, 08:35 PM
  #5
uncommonsense52
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I'd just as soon keep Cole as a Blues fan.

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Old
10-14-2009, 08:35 PM
  #6
Randall Ritchey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asquaredx2 View Post
The Sens' defensive prospect situation is so good it's silly: Cowen, Karlsson, Wiercioch, and Lee are all top-notch, and then we've got some depth behind that.

We don't need Cole, Lord knows we don't need any more bottom-6ers, and the 1st round pick is nice, I guess.

I don't think Ottawa will be out of the playoff picture at the deadline (heck, challenging for the division title seems like a more likely scenario), and I think it's even less likely that the Sens and Volchenkov would be far apart in talks, even if the Sens could potentially replace him with Cowen as early as next season.

If, however, that is the case, the Sens would want prospects with top-6 talent rather than pluggers or defence prospects. I'm tempted to ask for Lars Eller straight up (just based on the awesomeness of Volchenkov's last few hits) but I've seen some Blues fans anointing him as an upcoming superstar, so I doubt they'd be inclined to move him.

Palushaj has chemistry with our prospect Caporusso from College. Maybe Palushaj, a 1st, and a 2nd or 3rd would be what I'd ask for, but only in the case that there was no chance of re-signing Volchenkov and I didn't get better offers elsewhere (and neither did Brian Murray ).
I think the Blues could Palushaj, a 1st, and a 3rd. But you'd have to take someone like Sydor back (UFA at seasons end).
Just for cap space.

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10-14-2009, 08:38 PM
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Asquaredx2
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Are you that tight to the cap? Volchenkov at the deadline would count for like 800K.

If we move him, we're sure as hell not taking back some old fart to take minutes or a spot away from our young guys (Lee is in the AHL, for example) or money from Eugene.

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Old
10-14-2009, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Asquaredx2 View Post
Are you that tight to the cap? Volchenkov at the deadline would count for like 800K.

If we move him, we're sure as hell not taking back some old fart to take minutes or a spot away from our young guys (Lee is in the AHL, for example) or money from Eugene.
It should count as 2.5, but if they are on an internal cap then it would only cost them around 1 million

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10-14-2009, 08:42 PM
  #9
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The value is there but it doesn't really work for Ottawa, we don't need the picks/prospects, especially on defense. Cole isn't needed at all, something based around Eller for Volchenkov would work.

Perhaps Palushaj + better forward + 1st for Volchenkov?

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Old
10-14-2009, 08:56 PM
  #10
Randall Ritchey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
The value is there but it doesn't really work for Ottawa, we don't need the picks/prospects, especially on defense. Cole isn't needed at all, something based around Eller for Volchenkov would work.

Perhaps Palushaj + better forward + 1st for Volchenkov?
Depending on the better forward.

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Old
10-14-2009, 09:01 PM
  #11
Asquaredx2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
The value is there but it doesn't really work for Ottawa, we don't need the picks/prospects, especially on defense. Cole isn't needed at all, something based around Eller for Volchenkov would work.

Perhaps Palushaj + better forward + 1st for Volchenkov?
Yeah, Eller would be my first choice too, especially considering the Frolunda connection.

But, Blues fans seem crazy about the guy.

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Old
10-14-2009, 09:08 PM
  #12
Randall Ritchey
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We Blues fans are high on him, but we think that management is even higher.

When he develops, I'd expect to see Eller better than Berglund, Oshie and Perron.

His offensive play could be out matched by Perron, but Eller's two way play is leagues above Perron's and Berglund's and potentially Oshie's as well.

He's our best all around prospect.

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Old
10-14-2009, 09:11 PM
  #13
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Any chance we could get Perron, Berglund or Oshie for Volchenkov?

The proposal isn't bad, btw. If we couldn't re-sign him I'd probably do it.

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10-14-2009, 09:12 PM
  #14
Asquaredx2
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^I doubt it, considering Volchenkov's an impending free agent.

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Old
10-14-2009, 09:18 PM
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No thanks at this proposal... especially since Anton is a UFA next year. That's a big price for a shut down D rental. I'd do Crombeen and 1st alone but not Cole and the pick.

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10-14-2009, 09:19 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by The Heat is Gone View Post
Any chance we could get Perron, Berglund or Oshie for Volchenkov?

The proposal isn't bad, btw. If we couldn't re-sign him I'd probably do it.
Sure if you include 2-3 1st rounders.

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Old
10-14-2009, 09:23 PM
  #17
Abyss
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That seems like a huge price to pay for Volchenkov, either the Palushaj or Cole package.

Or asking for Eller? Jesus.

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Old
10-14-2009, 09:39 PM
  #18
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What Blues fans don't know about Volchenkov

-Plays with Heart, he gives his all on every shift
- One of the top shot blockers "who cares..." He could be the difference between the opposing team having 30 SOG and 40 SOG, which significantly increases your team's chance of winning.
- Lays down the body. He is one of the hardest hitters in the NHL, and a Physical defensive D-man is a necessary thing to win in the playoffs, ever wonder why the Sharks don't get past the first round? When the playoffs come, the physicality goes up a notch
- Volchenkov is top 10 if we are talking about defensive defenseman

lastly, there is no doubt that he will re-sign with Ottawa, it's just how much.

I wouldn't trade him out unless we can create a package for Oshie, Perron or Backes, which is highly unlikely.

We don't want any more defensive prospects either... or prospects in general, unless they are top-notch (i.e. Eller)

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10-14-2009, 09:48 PM
  #19
Randall Ritchey
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Originally Posted by GoSenators11 View Post
What Blues fans don't know about Volchenkov

-Plays with Heart, he gives his all on every shift
- One of the top shot blockers "who cares..." He could be the difference between the opposing team having 30 SOG and 40 SOG, which significantly increases your team's chance of winning.
- Lays down the body. He is one of the hardest hitters in the NHL, and a Physical defensive D-man is a necessary thing to win in the playoffs, ever wonder why the Sharks don't get past the first round? When the playoffs come, the physicality goes up a notch
- Volchenkov is top 10 if we are talking about defensive defenseman

lastly, there is no doubt that he will re-sign with Ottawa, it's just how much.

I wouldn't trade him out unless we can create a package for Oshie, Perron or Backes, which is highly unlikely.

We don't want any more defensive prospects either... or prospects in general, unless they are top-notch (i.e. Eller)
What makes you assume we dont know this?

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Old
10-14-2009, 09:56 PM
  #20
Asquaredx2
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What makes you assume we dont know this?


Yeah, that doesn't leave a lot to know. Unless Blues fans are trading for him based on the fact that he's Russian and a Pisces.

My guess is he's just trying to get more from you. GSG11 has a bit of a history of asking for *ahem* a lot for Sens' players.

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Old
10-14-2009, 09:56 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Abyss View Post
That seems like a huge price to pay for Volchenkov, either the Palushaj or Cole package.

Or asking for Eller? Jesus.

This guy ^^^

And the guy who said we needed to include 3 first rounders to get one of Backes ,Perron or Oshie

People seem to forget that Volchenkov is a top 10 defenseman

Which is worth one of the earlier three, if he can be re-signed at a good amount(with maybe a pick), which is why some teams are given permission to talk to certain players about extensions, etc. before trades are made.

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Old
10-14-2009, 09:58 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Asquaredx2 View Post


Yeah, that doesn't leave a lot to know. Unless Blues fans are trading for him based on the fact that he's Russian and a Pisces.

My guess is he's just trying to get more from you. GSG11 has a bit of a history of asking for *ahem* a lot for Sens' players.


.

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Old
10-14-2009, 09:59 PM
  #23
Asquaredx2
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That seems like a huge price to pay for Volchenkov, either the Palushaj or Cole package.

Or asking for Eller? Jesus.
The chances of the Sens being out of the playoff hunt and being unable to negotiate with Volchenkov are so remote that if we were in that situation, we'd need all the help we could get.

I won't lie, the A-Train is pretty awesome. And he's an absolute rock in the post-season. I remember one playoff game a few seasons ago where he had 11 blocked shots.

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Old
10-14-2009, 10:19 PM
  #24
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What Sens fans don't know about Ian Cole.

- He's awesome. He's built like a brick **** house and has a mean streak. He could become Volchenkov in a couple years.

I have no interest in BJ Crombeen, but if the Sens are out of it at the deadline, I'd love something centred around Col and a 1st.

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Old
10-14-2009, 11:04 PM
  #25
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Forward prospect instead of Cole please. No need for Crombeen at all, some guys like Bass and Zack Smith wait for an opportunity but there is no roster spots for them actually. Heck, even I.Zubov future with the Sens is now over because of a number's game.

Do not need quantity but quality. Volchenkov is quality, have to receive quality. Cole is nice but with Cowen, Karlsson, Wiercioch, Lee, Phillips, Kuba, Carkner, Gryba, Campoli, Picard, we should be ok defensively.

Palushaj + 1st (add a 2nd if the pick isn't Top-20)

But seriously, i think Volchenkov will be kept. Someone like Kelly or Cheechoo will be moved before him if it is a matter of $$$

* Let's say Volchenkov extend @ 4M$/season. That's 1,5 more than he does actually. Remove Kelly's 2,1 and replace it by Zack Smith's 0,5 and it gets even at the end

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