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Old
10-18-2009, 05:36 PM
  #26
The Dayvan Cowboy
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
Correct!
Yeah you're right. I haven't missed an Oilers game in longer then I can remember, I am so casual.

The NFL is an absolute monster in Football cities and there is no point in trying to "steal" fans away. If you can build up a good fan base in the States, which the NHL has failed to do, then you broadcast games during NFL games to show you aren't afraid of them.

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10-18-2009, 05:36 PM
  #27
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Wow Replacement I was just thinking the EXACT same thing literally just a few minutes ago, I was scrolling through the 300's and checking the sched for the rest of the day on all the CI channels and noticed there wasn't a single game. On my hungover, lazy Sunday, this is a bad bad scenario for me. I was looking forward to getting my fix today and sitting on the couch doing nothing.

But yes your comments 1000% warranted and correct. 1000%, not 100%. I'm pissed the **** off.

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10-18-2009, 05:52 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
I think in the 17 years of this idea of creating more hockey fans across the US we have found that you can't force someone to like something they don't want to like. Why make the real fans suffer to try to convince people that don't want to watch the game?

It is the law of diminishing returns.

Creating new fans does work. Los Angeles, San Jose, Dallas, St. Louis, Pittsburgh...

It takes time and exposure. The exposure part is what we are discussing.

So OK, there are two Sundays in October with no games, and a couple more with a two and three. In March there are Sundays with six, nine, nine, and ten games on; then in April four and eight.

Even me, with CI, would much rather have the games from these Sundays played in March when there are playoff races going and I can choose the best contests to watch.

In the mean time, when is the Steelers game...

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10-18-2009, 05:53 PM
  #29
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NFL + MLB playoffs = Nobody watching NHL.

Does anyone honestly think the NHL is going gain additional viewers when there is both these things going on?

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10-18-2009, 06:04 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by nye View Post
There will be plenty of NHL games on Sundays, just not early season when they would be head to head with the NFL.

It makes perfect marketing sense IF (big if) broadcasters requested it so that they do not have games with very little attraction to advertisers.

It makes perfect marketing sense when you take into account the fact that interest in the NHL in the US increases once the NFL and college football seasons are concluded.

It makes perfect marketing sense to move games from before New Years to after. If this is what the NHL has done I see no harm in it. It's a good idea, actually. That way they would have more of their product exposed to a larger audience. That is good marketing.
So again by this logic should competing networks just shut it down for two weeks when a rival has the Olmpics coverage rights?

You really are suggesting that the answer to dominant market share is to not offer same time frame product.

The NFL is on Sundays until January afairc. This is not a matter of avoiding one small segment of competing product. Its a large timeframe.

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10-18-2009, 06:31 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by nye View Post
Creating new fans does work. Los Angeles, San Jose, Dallas, St. Louis, Pittsburgh...

It takes time and exposure. The exposure part is what we are discussing.

So OK, there are two Sundays in October with no games, and a couple more with a two and three. In March there are Sundays with six, nine, nine, and ten games on; then in April four and eight.

Even me, with CI, would much rather have the games from these Sundays played in March when there are playoff races going and I can choose the best contests to watch.

In the mean time, when is the Steelers game...
What value is this comment for the Centre ice Subscriber that bought content, expects content, and could give a **** about the NFL?

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10-18-2009, 06:35 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Ol' Jase View Post
NFL + MLB playoffs = Nobody watching NHL.

Does anyone honestly think the NHL is going gain additional viewers when there is both these things going on?
This is specious logic.

Presumably there are actually NHL fans in the US. Arguably its possible that theres NHL fans there that are not so thrilled by baseball and the NFL.

So the NHL, in its infinite wisdom, thows its hands up, surrenders market, shuts down on some Sundays, and causes its fans to wander..?

Its possible to lose and gain market share. Not producing product on any given sunday is a sure way to lose market.

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10-18-2009, 06:38 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
This is specious logic.

Presumably there are actually NHL fans in the US. Arguably its possible that theres NHL fans there that are not so thrilled by baseball and the NFL.

So the NHL, in its infinite wisdom, thows its hands up, surrenders market, and causes its fans to wander..?

Its possible to lose and gain market share. Not producing product on any given sunday is a sure way to lose market.
Huh?

The league didn't take a week off, it's one day when it's competition is at it's strongest.

NHL fans are going to stop watching games because the league took a day off?

Do you honestly believe this?

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10-18-2009, 06:48 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
So again by this logic should competing networks just shut it down for two weeks when a rival has the Olmpics coverage rights?
Not a good analogy. Broadcasters have a product, time, and they can produce revenues despite the Olympics (or the NFL) being on opposite them. The question is how much revenue will their time be worth when up against marquee content. Not as much should be the answer. However, there are people who do not care a whit about the Olympics and will watch other channels for other sorts of shows.

The NHL has a product of a different sort. They have 3362 regular season games. That's it for what we are considering. Especially in this economic climate, they are doing well to seek to maximise their revenue for the finite amount of product they have to sell. In the US (for 24 of 30 teams) that means staying away from the NFL, MLB playoffs, college football, etc as much as possible.

Old farmers saying. You make hay when the sun shines. For the NHL in many or most US markets the sun is brightest after New Years, and this year they need as much hay as they can get off.

Quote:
You really are suggesting that the answer to dominant market share is to not offer same time frame product.
No, I am suggesting that the answer to dominant market share in sports is to figure a way to expose more of your finite product to more people when they will not be consuming the dominant product.

Quote:
The NFL is on Sundays until January afairc. This is not a matter of avoiding one small segment of competing product. Its a large timeframe.
It's a short time frame when there is no NHL on Sundays. Two Sundays in October. That's it. That's all. Then there are fewer games on Sundays before the New Year than after. I don't know about you, but if it were my job to make the most revenue possible in a US market, I would like it this way.

Canadian teams could play on Sundays in October, except that we all want our teams to play on Saturday night and want to avoid them having the dreaded back-to-backs.

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10-18-2009, 06:50 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Ol' Jase View Post
Huh?

The league didn't take a week off, it's one day when it's competition is at it's strongest.

NHL fans are going to stop watching games because the league took a day off?

Do you honestly believe this?
You misunderstood me. From a marketing pov it makes little sense taking sundays, the biggest day of the week, off.

To make it more clear I'll use an analogy.

In a local mall a couple shops have sales every Sunday and a lot of customers. A store with less business on Sundays(but that still gets business) decides to close on Sundays because the competitors are just too awesome

What does that do?

It possibly even more falls into customers, even customers of that shop going into competitors stores and shopping there instead. Because they are actually open on the Sunday, one of the main days that people shop. This is lost business. At least on that day.

Closing up shop on any day is always a way to lose some market share.

My argument is that it just doesn't ever make marketing sense to close up shop if there's business to be had.

To assume that theres no business to be had is a fail marketing dynamic and what happens in places like Downtown Edmonton where shops close at 5PM on Saturdays and Sundays because they complain that the suburban malls that are all open till 9-10pm have all the business.

I wonder why.

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10-18-2009, 06:52 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
I believe today, and a couple weeks ago are the only 2 days of the entire year (other than Christmas break, and Olympic break) that their aren't any games.

One other weird thing I've noticed with the schedule is how some teams are having massive gaps while only playing a few games. The Maple leafs for example, played last night, but they had 3 days off before that, and they don't play again until next Friday. Same sort of thing with Calgary. Played Vancouver Friday, 3 days off, then Columbus, 3 days off, then Edmonton, then another 3 days off. Over a 20 day stretch the only play 5 games.
I have noticed the inconsistent scheduling as well. I've been following the NYI this season and since Oct 3rd they have had a 5 day break, a 4 day break and now a 3 day break. Then they will play 11 games in 18 days before their next 3 day break. There really shouldn't be 4 & 5 day breaks for teams in between games, especially this early in the season.

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10-18-2009, 06:53 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
What value is this comment for the Centre ice Subscriber that bought content, expects content, and could give a **** about the NFL?

It is to show that even many Canadians with CI have an interest in the NFL.

For me personally, I would watch Oilers, Steelers, other NHL games in that order early in the NHL season. For others they would watch their team, any NFL, other NHL teams. For them, CI on Sundays is wasted.

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10-18-2009, 06:54 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
I have CI but this year Game Center was not offered for free.
It is with Bell.

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Old
10-18-2009, 07:00 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
You misunderstood me. From a marketing pov it makes little sense taking sundays, the biggest day of the week, off.

To make it more clear I'll use an analogy.

In a local mall a couple shops have sales every Sunday and a lot of customers. A store with less business on Sundays(but that still gets business) decides to close on Sundays because the competitors are just too awesome

What does that do?

It possibly even more falls into customers, even customers of that shop going into competitors stores and shopping there instead. Because they are actually open on the Sunday, one of the main days that people shop. This is lost business. At least on that day.

Closing up shop on any day is always a way to lose some market share.

My argument is that it just doesn't ever make marketing sense to close up shop if there's business to be had.

To assume that theres no business to be had is a fail marketing dynamic and what happens in places like Downtown Edmonton where shops close at 5PM on Saturdays and Sundays because they complain that the suburban malls that are all open till 9-10pm have all the business.

I wonder why.
No, I'm sorry, but your analogy is completely off the mark.

The NHL enjoys the ability to broadcast 7 days a week, the NFL only 2, Sundays and one game on Monday night. Add to that the MLB playoffs and the NHL is not going to gain national market share (which is the result you are implying will happen). Centre Ice previews and games in general are not available to nearly the same population base as the NFL or MLB playoffs.

It sounds to me like you want to watch a hockey game and you can't, so you're indicting the NHL marketing sense on this issue, when it is actually not the mistake you would make it out to be.

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Old
10-18-2009, 07:01 PM
  #40
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Center Ice is just a conduit for local broadcasters. These broadcasters are paid by advertisers. These advertisers pay according to ratings. As a broadcaster you are going to want to avoid timeslots that you are going to get killed in the ratings and thereby lose money in what you can charge the advertisers. Maybe the broadcasters work somewhat with the nhl to avoid late October Sundays when their ratings will be weakest?

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10-18-2009, 07:03 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nye View Post
It is to show that even many Canadians with CI have an interest in the NFL.

For me personally, I would watch Oilers, Steelers, other NHL games in that order early in the NHL season. For others they would watch their team, any NFL, other NHL teams. For them, CI on Sundays is wasted.
It doesn't show anything of the sort.

In Canada people would rather watch the NHL, or the CFL, than the NFL and the numbers seem to bear this out.

http://thestar.blogs.com/sportsmedia/

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10-18-2009, 07:05 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Ol' Jase View Post
No, I'm sorry, but your analogy is completely off the mark.

The NHL enjoys the ability to broadcast 7 days a week, the NFL only 2, Sundays and one game on Monday night. Add to that the MLB playoffs and the NHL is not going to gain national market share (which is the result you are implying will happen). Centre Ice previews and games in general are not available to nearly the same population base as the NFL or MLB playoffs.

It sounds to me like you want to watch a hockey game and you can't, so you're indicting the NHL marketing sense on this issue, when it is actually not the mistake you would make it out to be.
No, I'd rather go for a bike ride. Oh look, the sun shining now.

edit: That was a short response and I enjoyed the 45mins of sunshine we had today. Its dark now..

Again CI is a subscription service, That viewers pay handsomely for. For the whole point of servicing the bolded: "It sounds to me like you want to watch a hockey game"

Yep. Imagine that.

I kinda thought that was the services mission statement.


Last edited by Replacement: 10-18-2009 at 08:17 PM.
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10-18-2009, 07:14 PM
  #43
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I love Center Ice With me living in the New York City if there's was no Center Ice, i would never be able to watch any Oiler games because lord knows there won't be any Oiler games on Versus or NBC
Does anybody know what happened to the NHL network not showing the second half of the Saturday CBC doubleheader anymore?

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10-18-2009, 08:14 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
It doesn't show anything of the sort.

In Canada people would rather watch the NHL, or the CFL, than the NFL and the numbers seem to bear this out.

http://thestar.blogs.com/sportsmedia/

It certainly does, relative ratings notwithstanding.

Or can you show that what I said is inaccurate? Did someone change the meaning of many or others when I was not looking?


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10-18-2009, 08:39 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by nye View Post
It certainly does, relative ratings notwithstanding.

Or can you show that what I said is inaccurate? Did someone change the meaning of many or others when I was not looking?

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In the meantime, when is the Steelers game?
Which I responded to and followed by this:

Quote:
It is to show that even many Canadians with CI have an interest in the NFL.
Led me to believe you thought the NHL was behaving prudently in relation to Canadian consumers.

Why use "many" above if you are not attempting to imply a plurality or some consensus.

Clearly Canadians would rather watch NHL hockey.

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10-18-2009, 08:47 PM
  #46
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You're on your game, Repl. You take a throw away line and make it a major point of contention.

By the way, highest rated show for a Sunday on his 10/15 list is the NFL. The same is true for his 10/6 list. There was NHL hockey played for at least one of those Sundays.

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10-18-2009, 09:07 PM
  #47
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You're on your game, Repl. You take a throw away line and make it a major point of contention.

By the way, highest rated show for a Sunday on his 10/15 list is the NFL. The same is true for his 10/6 list. There was NHL hockey played for at least one of those Sundays.
Mybad then. I mistook what you were stating.

But as far as the lists if the top NHL rating has 3X as many viewers as the top NFL rating then its pretty clear that the NHL would trump were any games played in the NHL on ANY GIVEN SUNDAY.

Oct4, there were no NHL games played. Oct 11th there were two NHL games played. One had no Canadian network coverage while the other was a regional Vancouver Canucks telecast.

As the link indicates in the 9/28 post even a preseason NHL game beats all other sports competition in Canada.


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Old
10-18-2009, 09:25 PM
  #48
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Uhm, sports fans in the US are mostly watching the NFL.

What part of that is difficult to grasp?
And yet in the Phoenix thread you were angered at Canadian HOCKEY fans for their feverish love of the game when the topic of dragging that dead Coyote carcass out of the desert was discussed...what part of Canadian fans' frustration with the NHL schedule and dark nights do you not grasp?

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10-18-2009, 09:52 PM
  #49
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Mybad then. I mistook what you were stating.

But as far as the lists if the top NHL rating has 3X as many viewers as the top NFL rating then its pretty clear that the NHL would trump were any games played in the NHL on ANY GIVEN SUNDAY.

Oct4, there were no NHL games played. Oct 11th there were two NHL games played. One had no Canadian network coverage while the other was a regional Vancouver Canucks telecast.

As the link indicates in the 9/28 post even a preseason NHL game beats all other sports competition in Canada.
That was the Leafs on a Saturday. Hockey in Mecca on the Sabbath.

I didn't say that an NHL game on TSN nationally would be second to NFL broadcasts.

I said that many Canadians with CI would rather watch NFL than NHL that did not involve their team. Many or some is unquestionable. I never said most.

This discussion does lend interest to see what happens on Sundays where there are NHL national broadcasts though.

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10-18-2009, 10:03 PM
  #50
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Actually, I just checked. Do you see any national broadcasts of the NHL on a Sunday before February?

The first I saw was the CBC with a Boston-Montreal game on Feb 7.

What does that tell us?

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