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Old
10-20-2009, 05:04 PM
  #101
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We are not getting Lecavalier.

It would take the entire farm system, all of our first round picks for the foreseeable future, and a number of our young roster players.

Why would the Rangers do that? They wouldn't.

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10-20-2009, 05:18 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Speculation.

Seriously thats what it is. Torts was fired in Tampa after he coached that team to the cellar of the entire league. 30th overall. Then you hear that Torts was fired because he and LeCav didn't get along et c. Well -- would any coach in this league survive finnishing 30th overall with that Tampa team? No.

He have de facto had his fair share of run-ins with LeCavalier. But if Torts have a team running hot in NY -- would LeCav refuse to come here and play for Torts? Would Torts refuse to coach LeCav?

I've never read anything that indicates that really.
In terms of all the above, I'd just rather not find out.

Fact is Torts took away his captaincy and he didn't like that. And why is everyone spelling Lecavalier's name with a capital C?

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10-20-2009, 05:25 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
We are not getting Lecavalier.

It would take the entire farm system, all of our first round picks for the foreseeable future, and a number of our young roster players.

Why would the Rangers do that? They wouldn't.
It wouldn't take our entire farmsystem. Its not like it would take a roster player like Higgins, five 1st round picks and Grachev, Kreider, Anisimov, Sanguinetti, Sauer, Potter, McDonaugh, Stephan, Bourque, Byers, Werek and Kveton to get him...

We have depth on the farm. Id deal Higgins, Kreider, Anisimov, Sanguinetti and 3 first for LeCav and 3 third round picks.

Wed still have 9 picks in the top 3 rounds the coming 3 years.

On the farm we would still have:
Upfront
Grachev, Stephan, Bourque, Werek, Byers and co. 1 of them ought to make it at least.

Defense
Sauer and McDonagh. 1 of them ought to be able to make it within the comming 2 years.

The team 09/10
Avery-Dubinsky-Gabby
Prospal-LeCav-Callahan
Lisin-Drury-Kotalik
Voros-Boyle-Brash
Staal-Girardi
Redden-Gilroy
MDZ-Physical D making around 2m
Dandenault


How many holes would we need to fill from the farm within the foreseeable future with a team like that?
In the big picture -- not many at all. We would have very little need for a farm. We would be a contender for 6-7 years (Gabby, Hank and LeCav would be in their prime) -- and during that time would have time to restock our farm. Look at Detroit, you don't need 6 kids challenging every year. 1 good kid every third year is more then enough.

Like we might not be able to keep Prospal for example -- but look at Pitts -- there is always another "Prospal" who would sign up cheap to get to play for a good team to boost his stats and get paid after 1 year. We wouldn't need to replace "Prospal" with a kid.


Last edited by Ola: 10-20-2009 at 05:32 PM.
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Old
10-20-2009, 05:52 PM
  #104
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I think this team needs some one like John Erskine. He's big, tough, he is also a very good fighter who can help protect Lundqvist. He would be a perfect 7th d-man and I think we have what it takes to get him. Wasn't there a report somewhere that Caps were interested in Potter?

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10-20-2009, 06:07 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
It wouldn't take our entire farmsystem. Its not like it would take a roster player like Higgins, five 1st round picks and Grachev, Kreider, Anisimov, Sanguinetti, Sauer, Potter, McDonaugh, Stephan, Bourque, Byers, Werek and Kveton to get him...

We have depth on the farm. Id deal Higgins, Kreider, Anisimov, Sanguinetti and 3 first for LeCav and 3 third round picks.

Wed still have 9 picks in the top 3 rounds the coming 3 years.

On the farm we would still have:
Upfront
Grachev, Stephan, Bourque, Werek, Byers and co. 1 of them ought to make it at least.

Defense
Sauer and McDonagh. 1 of them ought to be able to make it within the comming 2 years.

The team 09/10
Avery-Dubinsky-Gabby
Prospal-LeCav-Callahan
Lisin-Drury-Kotalik
Voros-Boyle-Brash
Staal-Girardi
Redden-Gilroy
MDZ-Physical D making around 2m
Dandenault


How many holes would we need to fill from the farm within the foreseeable future with a team like that?
In the big picture -- not many at all. We would have very little need for a farm. We would be a contender for 6-7 years (Gabby, Hank and LeCav would be in their prime) -- and during that time would have time to restock our farm. Look at Detroit, you don't need 6 kids challenging every year. 1 good kid every third year is more then enough.

Like we might not be able to keep Prospal for example -- but look at Pitts -- there is always another "Prospal" who would sign up cheap to get to play for a good team to boost his stats and get paid after 1 year. We wouldn't need to replace "Prospal" with a kid.

Adding Le Cavalier to the roster and subtracting Anisimov and Higgins from the roster adds somewhere around $4.5 mil in cap space--something we don't have. Rangers can't make this deal without sending one of Drury, Redden or Rozsival back the other way and Drury has an NMC and we'd be hardpressed on D with only 3 veterans. Towards the trade deadline when the majority of cap amounts are already assigned there might be a chance to pull something like this off. All of Kreider, Anisimov, Sanguinetti and 3 firsts is an awful lot to give up for one player--though Le Cavalier (especially when he's motivated) is a great player. It's justifiable if the team wins the cup otherwise I think we'll look back at it as a bad deal.

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10-20-2009, 06:24 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coltontin orrov View Post
I think this team needs some one like John Erskine. He's big, tough, he is also a very good fighter who can help protect Lundqvist. He would be a perfect 7th d-man and I think we have what it takes to get him. Wasn't there a report somewhere that Caps were interested in Potter?
Erskine's better than a 7th defenseman and not that it would take a ton, but it would take more than Corey Potter to get him

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10-20-2009, 07:33 PM
  #107
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1. A defensive minded defenseman, preferably one with some bite.

2. Another scoring winger.

In that order.

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10-20-2009, 07:46 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
1. A defensive minded defenseman, preferably one with some bite.

2. Another scoring winger.

In that order.
I'm not a huge Komisarek fan but he is what this team needs and his cap # isn't that bad. I know he just signed as a free agent but he is about to go through a rough season in Toronto and he might be a name to watch at the deadline.

I hate trade proposals but I wonder if Rozsvial and Sanguinetti would be enough to get him in March?

If you pair Komisarek with Del Zotto it would have the potential to be a great pairing for years to come.

Teams would NOT be running Lundqvist if Komisarek is on the team....

As for a scoring winger I think Grachev the Rangers look within for Grachev before we look outside the organization...

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10-20-2009, 07:51 PM
  #109
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Are you guys aware the NHL has a salary cap? Fifth season with a cap.

The cap is expected to stay status quo and if it drops it will only be a $1 million drop. Watch the Hotstove from 10/17.

Unlike last summer,the Rangers have most of their team signed for next season. The Rangers have 3 group II's(Staal,Girardi and Lisin(the latter two players are salary arb eligible)and 3 group III's(Higgins,Prospal and Valiquette).

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10-20-2009, 08:00 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
I'm not a huge Komisarek fan but he is what this team needs and his cap # isn't that bad. I know he just signed as a free agent but he is about to go through a rough season in Toronto and he might be a name to watch at the deadline.

I hate trade proposals but I wonder if Rozsvial and Sanguinetti would be enough to get him in March?

If you pair Komisarek with Del Zotto it would have the potential to be a great pairing for years to come.

Teams would NOT be running Lundqvist if Komisarek is on the team....

As for a scoring winger I think Grachev the Rangers look within for Grachev before we look outside the organization...
Komisarek is interesting in the sense that the Rangers were going to go after him, but he signed with Toronto before they had a chance to really approach him. I don't think anyone expected an American kids, specifically a New Yorker, to leave one Canadian team to sign with another.

Grachev could be a help if steps up later this year, even still I'd like one more veteran goal scorer if possible.

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10-20-2009, 08:04 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Are you guys aware the NHL has a salary cap? Fifth season with a cap.

The cap is expected to stay status quo and if it drops it will only be a $1 million drop. Watch the Hotstove from 10/17.

Unlike last summer,the Rangers have most of their team signed for next season. The Rangers have 3 group II's(Staal,Girardi and Lisin(the latter two players are salary arb eligible)and 3 group III's(Higgins,Prospal and Valiquette).
I think most people are assuming that salary is moved in order for a move to be made. Of course the Devil is in the details and talking about moving salary and actually moving it are two different things.

Why do I get the funny feeling that Drury's days with the Rangers may be coming to an end. I get the sense that Torts would like to go with a young leadership core of Callaan, Staal and Dubinsky (maybe Gaborik) and that the Rangers wouldn't be heart broken to get out from under his salary.

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10-20-2009, 08:05 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
1. A defensive minded defenseman, preferably one with some bite.

2. Another scoring winger.

In that order.
Agree completely and I have said this in a similar thread.

Another thing I think we lack is the right mentality. I know I know this is just our first year with Torts and it has only begun, but IMO i think we are too soft mentally. I think the team gets complacent too easily and has trouble digging deep. It will never be again like it was last year at times (god I hope not), but another thing the Rangers need before they can be contenders is that never going to die mentality, this type of stone wall mentality that nothing will faze them.

I believe that may be the most important thing for this Ranger's team to have. If they get all three, then hell the NHL better watch out.

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10-20-2009, 08:17 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Erskine's better than a 7th defenseman and not that it would take a ton, but it would take more than Corey Potter to get him
For Was maybe he is better than a 7th d-man but for us he would be in the line up only if one of our d-man gets injured/takes a game off and becomes a healthy scratch/needs a rest. The more he plays the more he gets exposed and thats why he's not suited for anything more than a 7th d-man.
I have no idea what Erskin's value is but I'm sure it wouldn't take alot more than a prospect such as Corey Potter.

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10-20-2009, 09:11 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
1. A defensive minded defenseman, preferably one with some bite.

2. Another scoring winger.

In that order.
Agree with you on both of those, I would like the winger to be a vet. NOT Shanny but someone like him is kind of what this team needs, and sooner than later I think.

I just have a feeling the coach is coaching, but the leaders aren't leading well (Drury). He leads by example when he plays hard obviously but he needs a Shannahan in the room IMHO.

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10-20-2009, 09:55 PM
  #115
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I think Drury is, and always has been, a great support player. But I just don't know how that translates when A) you pay him such a high salary, B) expect him to be one of your core scorers, C) make him the captain and thus the focus of the team.

Drury is a clutch player who ideally scores 25 goals, 55 points.

I just don't know if that will ever be enough in this situation.

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10-20-2009, 09:58 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Id deal Higgins, Kreider, Anisimov, Sanguinetti and 3 first for LeCav and 3 third round picks.
Man, am I glad you aren't the GM. I wouldn't even trade those 4 players without the three first rounders.

Anisimov will probably be a solid second liner. Sanger or Kreider have a lot of potential.

Vinny is almost 30 years old. Not old, but not like we're getting Ovechkin or Crosby.

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10-20-2009, 10:07 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I think most people are assuming that salary is moved in order for a move to be made. Of course the Devil is in the details and talking about moving salary and actually moving it are two different things.

Why do I get the funny feeling that Drury's days with the Rangers may be coming to an end. I get the sense that Torts would like to go with a young leadership core of Callaan, Staal and Dubinsky (maybe Gaborik) and that the Rangers wouldn't be heart broken to get out from under his salary.
Drury is going to be tough to move. I'm a fan of his game, but he was doomed from the start with that huge salary. I know some will say 'But Gomez was moved!', which is true, but it's a really unique situation. Lack of FA centers on the market, a team with cap space to burn and a need for a better option as their first line center. The fact that Gainey wanted Gomez to begin with doesn't hurt either.

Still, even looking beyond that, Gomez can still pass for a first line center. I just don't see many teams looking to get Drury for 2 more years after this one at $7MM a piece. He brings a lot of things to the table, but not enough to justify that cap hit.

I agree with your needs assessment though. A gritty d-man is as much of a necessity now as it's been for a few years. An additional scoring threat on the wing would be a benefit, but probably isn't in the cards until the deadline. Frolov is really the guy I'm looking at there, though he may be available sooner than I thought. I could see Higgins or Lisin going back the other way. I'd like to see us add another right handed shot to the lineup.

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10-20-2009, 10:15 PM
  #118
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The guy I would love for the Rangers to get is Shane O'Brien. The guy is a good bottom pairing defenseman who is physical and will drop the gloves. I was hoping Slats could find a way to get him over the past offseason but I could foresee a trade around some excess forwards for O'Brien. Something like Higgins for O'Brien+.

Not to mention the fact that the guy has an absolute bomb from the point.

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10-20-2009, 10:45 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I think most people are assuming that salary is moved in order for a move to be made. Of course the Devil is in the details and talking about moving salary and actually moving it are two different things.

Why do I get the funny feeling that Drury's days with the Rangers may be coming to an end. I get the sense that Torts would like to go with a young leadership core of Callaan, Staal and Dubinsky (maybe Gaborik) and that the Rangers wouldn't be heart broken to get out from under his salary.
Markus Naslund retired. Taking $4 million off the books. Gomez was traded in a deal for Higgins saving the Rangers $5.1 million. Sjostrom was given a QO. Betts,Orr,Antropov,Mara and Morris were not retained as group III's. Zherdev was walked away from after his $3.9 million award. The room to make moves,re-sign group II's and add players was there. Throw in the fact the Rangers had $750,000 of bonus money accelerated into their 08-09 cap which is not in 09-10 cap. In 08-09,the Rangers had $2.5 million sitting in the stands(Prucha and Fritsche) for most of the season.

Drury has a NMC. Gomez had a limited NTC to three teams.

If the cap stays at $56.8 million,the Rangers have $48 million committed with Girardi eligible for salary arbitration. Staal is up for a new contract. He is not arbitration eligible but his agents Rick Curran/Paul Krepelka are going to want a good deal.

Rozsival's contract makes him expendable with $13 million of the $20 million already paid by the Rangers. He has a NTC to eight teams.

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10-20-2009, 10:48 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I think Drury is, and always has been, a great support player. But I just don't know how that translates when A) you pay him such a high salary, B) expect him to be one of your core scorers, C) make him the captain and thus the focus of the team.

Drury is a clutch player who ideally scores 25 goals, 55 points.

I just don't know if that will ever be enough in this situation.
Drury is the type of player that is fantastic before he gets overhyped and reaches this iconic status. He's fantastic to have in his mid 20's when he's producing, has speed and intensity, scores the cluch goals and gets to the point where people think so very highly of him... that they are willing to grossly overpay him. At that point, you simply can't build a team with him on it. Unless you're a team that is simply loaded with really young underpaid superstars.

In this day and age you only pay for superstars. Not for complementary players. Not for "intangibles". The Drury's of the world are a hell of a lot easier to cultivate from within than the Kovalchuks.

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10-20-2009, 11:19 PM
  #121
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Drury is the type of player that is fantastic before he gets overhyped and reaches this iconic status. He's fantastic to have in his mid 20's when he's producing, has speed and intensity, scores the cluch goals and gets to the point where people think so very highly of him... that they are willing to grossly overpay him. At that point, you simply can't build a team with him on it. Unless you're a team that is simply loaded with really young underpaid superstars.

In this day and age you only pay for superstars. Not for complementary players. Not for "intangibles". The Drury's of the world are a hell of a lot easier to cultivate from within than the Kovalchuks.
I disagree only a little.

I agree that you don't pay top dollar for a guy like Drury, but I do think you pay a little more than average for a guy like him. In other words, Drury is worth more than a typical 25 goal, 55 point player. Just like a guy like Callahan is worth more than someone in his scoring range.

Having said that, when you overpay by as much as the Rangers did, it's a big problem.

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10-21-2009, 02:46 AM
  #122
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Adding Le Cavalier to the roster and subtracting Anisimov and Higgins from the roster adds somewhere around $4.5 mil in cap space--something we don't have. Rangers can't make this deal without sending one of Drury, Redden or Rozsival back the other way and Drury has an NMC and we'd be hardpressed on D with only 3 veterans. Towards the trade deadline when the majority of cap amounts are already assigned there might be a chance to pull something like this off. All of Kreider, Anisimov, Sanguinetti and 3 firsts is an awful lot to give up for one player--though Le Cavalier (especially when he's motivated) is a great player. It's justifiable if the team wins the cup otherwise I think we'll look back at it as a bad deal.
As you can see on my "team", and in the first post, I did substract Rozsival too. That saves 5,5 ofthe 4.5 needed. We have 1 mil saved all ready. And if the deal is made like at the deadline -- we could move Rozi for like a Beauchemin if Toronto get sick of him and need a replacement for Kaberle -- just for example.

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10-21-2009, 03:04 AM
  #123
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Man, am I glad you aren't the GM. I wouldn't even trade those 4 players without the three first rounders.

Anisimov will probably be a solid second liner. Sanger or Kreider have a lot of potential.

Vinny is almost 30 years old. Not old, but not like we're getting Ovechkin or Crosby.
I know its a awful lot -- Vinny is 29 y/o and is just starting on a 80m dollar contract that not many want to sit on these days.

But thats like the roof of what I would offer. You never know how many teams would be in the bidding. He could cost less -- and of course, it might not be enough either (if like one team offers a "key" young player in return -- something we don't have).

Anyway -- I want to ask you, what do you want to achive with keeping Sangs, Kreider and Anisimov?

Do you think we will become a contender by bringing them up? And if they fullfill their potential -- when do you think they will become a contender?

From my point of view, Hank is 28, Gabby 27; Staal, Cally and Dubinsky is at least half cheap -- now, MDZ and Gilroy is cheap now et c. Kreider won't help us in the near future. Sangs will have a hard time even getting a chance here in NY. Higgins? He is a UFA at the end of the season -- someone will offer him 3m per, is he worth that to us? Could we keep him?

We have Hank and Gabby now. You can build a contender around those two. You can not build a contender around Staal, Dubi and Callahan... They aren't that type of players. Its now, and in the coming 4-5 years we should contender. We can't expect to contend with players we will draft in the coming 2-3 drafts.

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10-21-2009, 04:33 AM
  #124
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It wouldn't take our entire farmsystem. Its not like it would take a roster player like Higgins, five 1st round picks and Grachev, Kreider, Anisimov, Sanguinetti, Sauer, Potter, McDonaugh, Stephan, Bourque, Byers, Werek and Kveton to get him...

We have depth on the farm. Id deal Higgins, Kreider, Anisimov, Sanguinetti and 3 first for LeCav and 3 third round picks.

Wed still have 9 picks in the top 3 rounds the coming 3 years.

Thats quite a steep price to pay. 6 picks is alot but you can live with it but giving up all of Ani, Sangs and Kreider - not sure that I would do that.

The other issue is money. For us to fit Lecavalier under the salary cap Redden or Rozy would have to go the other way.

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10-21-2009, 05:12 AM
  #125
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I know its a awful lot -- Vinny is 29 y/o and is just starting on a 80m dollar contract that not many want to sit on these days.

But thats like the roof of what I would offer. You never know how many teams would be in the bidding. He could cost less -- and of course, it might not be enough either (if like one team offers a "key" young player in return -- something we don't have).

Anyway -- I want to ask you, what do you want to achive with keeping Sangs, Kreider and Anisimov?

Do you think we will become a contender by bringing them up? And if they fullfill their potential -- when do you think they will become a contender?

From my point of view, Hank is 28, Gabby 27; Staal, Cally and Dubinsky is at least half cheap -- now, MDZ and Gilroy is cheap now et c. Kreider won't help us in the near future. Sangs will have a hard time even getting a chance here in NY. Higgins? He is a UFA at the end of the season -- someone will offer him 3m per, is he worth that to us? Could we keep him?

We have Hank and Gabby now. You can build a contender around those two. You can not build a contender around Staal, Dubi and Callahan... They aren't that type of players. Its now, and in the coming 4-5 years we should contender. We can't expect to contend with players we will draft in the coming 2-3 drafts.
Why would the Rangers assume that contract? His production does not match his salary and it's only going to get worse in the immediate future.

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