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Old
10-23-2009, 12:45 PM
  #51
Bleed Ranger Blue
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
IMO it makes sense to draft the "BPA" regardless of position. If that means a goalie in the first round so be it. If in 2010 the Rangers pick a goalie in the 1st round NOBODY knows what type of organizational depth we will have when the kid is mature enough for the NHL.

If teams drafted for "immediate need" like football you guys would have a point but teams generally don't do that in hockey..right?

To make a blanket statement that we shouldn't draft a goalie in the first few rounds because of Lundqvist is foolish imo.
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I agree. In 2008, everyone in the world thought we should draft a forward in the first round because we had stockpiled defensemen in Staal, Sanguinetti, etc. In hindsight, Del Zotto turned out to be a hell of a pick.

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10-23-2009, 01:10 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
IMO it makes sense to draft the "BPA" regardless of position. If that means a goalie in the first round so be it. If in 2010 the Rangers pick a goalie in the 1st round NOBODY knows what type of organizational depth we will have when the kid is mature enough for the NHL.

If teams drafted for "immediate need" like football you guys would have a point but teams generally don't do that in hockey..right?

To make a blanket statement that we shouldn't draft a goalie in the first few rounds because of Lundqvist is foolish imo.
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I don't believe in drafting a goalie with a high pick, simply because, we've seen too many examples goalies do not have the trade value that forwards and D-men do. You're not getting the same asset you would by adding the BPA at other positions. I am always thrilled other teams ahead of the Rangers select goalies in the 1st round...it usually means a quality player is going to drop to the Rangers.
Who was the last goalie take in the top ten? I think Carey Price in 2005 to Montreal.


Last edited by jas: 10-24-2009 at 05:04 AM.
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Old
10-23-2009, 08:35 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I agree. In 2008, everyone in the world thought we should draft a forward in the first round because we had stockpiled defensemen in Staal, Sanguinetti, etc. In hindsight, Del Zotto turned out to be a hell of a pick.
Look up my posts at the time. I wanted an offensive defenseman, the logic being that prospects bust and we can't just rely on Sanger, we need at least one more offensive defenseman.

We were hardly stockpiled at the time. Staal, Girardi, Sanger... what's next? Sauer? And behind him were Kundratek and Potter. That's a stockpile? That's 6 total blueliners under 25 years of age, only 2 of whom were playing in the NHL. That's downright terrible.

The stockpile is what happened when we acquire 7 more D prospects: DZ, Heineken, Gilroy, McD, Valentenko, Williams, Gaulton.

We literally almost quadrupled our legitimate D prospects since the 2008 draft, going from 4 prospects to 15. Among top prospects, we went from 1 (Sanger) to 4 (Sanger, DZ, Gilroy, McD), maybe even 5 (plus Heineken).

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Old
10-23-2009, 09:54 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
IMO it makes sense to draft the "BPA" regardless of position. If that means a goalie in the first round so be it. If in 2010 the Rangers pick a goalie in the 1st round NOBODY knows what type of organizational depth we will have when the kid is mature enough for the NHL.

If teams drafted for "immediate need" like football you guys would have a point but teams generally don't do that in hockey..right?

To make a blanket statement that we shouldn't draft a goalie in the first few rounds because of Lundqvist is foolish imo.
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I kinda agree

If there is a top goalie left and a top forward left, but that forward is ranked a little lower then the goalie...do I want us to pick the goalie? Hell no.

But if a goalie REALLY drops far to us (Example, like the forward Cherepanov ((RIP))..then go for it.

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Old
10-23-2009, 11:12 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post

Again: Best Player Available. But if all things are equal, go for wingers.
Rule #1. BPA

Rule #2. Trust the scouts. They see a lot more of every prospect than we do. They cross check each other's work. Their opinons are much more informed than any fans.

Rule #3. When in doubt draft a center. Centers in hockey are like shortstops in baseball and fullbacks in football. The best kids gravitate to the most important position. Baseball teams are full of players who started their careers as shortstops. When I was at Syracuse, one year our freshman football class had 14 fullbacks, many of whom were the biggest kids at their school and most ended up as tackles, linebackers etc. The stars in junior hockey are usually centers. Kessell, Trevor Linden, Prospal, John Leclair are just a few examples of players who started as centers then moved to the wings. If you get a center who is a keeper that's great. If not, you can still end up with a pretty good winger.

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10-24-2009, 04:31 AM
  #56
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We shouldn't take a goalie -- ever, IMO.

Seriously though, no matter what I would get very dissapointed with any goalie pick. There comes a life after Hank too for sure. But, overwhelming odds are that that life comes in 10 years.

And odds of one of our goaliepicks coming to aid if something god forbid hapends to Hank -- is minimal. Like if we only picked goalies with all our picks for 3 straight years -- its still probably likely that we would stand their without a elite goalie if Hank went down.

Like if we pick a good winger, he is also a insurance if Hank goes down. Like who would you rather have today if Hank went down -- Artem Anisimov or Antoine LaFleur? Anisimov and a pick/prospect could be traded for a goalie. AL could not bee traded for a goalie nor could he fill in.

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Old
10-24-2009, 07:00 AM
  #57
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The last few years at the draft--by the time it was our turn--a particular player was the sure bet. For instance when we move up to 12 to pick Staal--there was no doubt about it that he was the guy. The same happened when Cherepanov, Sanguinetti and Del Zotto fell to us--they just seemed to stand out as the guys to take. This year though there were two guys--either Kreider or Josefsson I would have been happy with--the Rangers chose Kreider--the guy they'd extensively scouted instead of Josefsson--the Devils then moved up and took Josefsson with the next pick. Anyway the Rangers have enough high end forward prospects (Anisimov, Stepan, Kreider, Grachev, Werek) where it wouldn't bother me at all if they took another d-man in the coming draft provided he's the best player.

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10-24-2009, 10:04 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
The last few years at the draft--by the time it was our turn--a particular player was the sure bet. For instance when we move up to 12 to pick Staal--there was no doubt about it that he was the guy. The same happened when Cherepanov, Sanguinetti and Del Zotto fell to us--they just seemed to stand out as the guys to take. This year though there were two guys--either Kreider or Josefsson I would have been happy with--the Rangers chose Kreider--the guy they'd extensively scouted instead of Josefsson--the Devils then moved up and took Josefsson with the next pick. Anyway the Rangers have enough high end forward prospects (Anisimov, Stepan, Kreider, Grachev, Werek) where it wouldn't bother me at all if they took another d-man in the coming draft provided he's the best player.
The organization is now at the point where they should go for a partiicular weakness, no not goaltending, physcial presence on the backline or upfront. Interesting how the organization has rebuilt itself. Many of the pretend expert on here never understood that to rebuild a team correctly you needed to start in the scouting and player personnel department. Often times the personnel you want are not available as they are under contract with other organizations. Slowly and painfully Sather has gathered a quality, competent staff. It is no coincidence that as the organizational staff has fallen into place that our selections likewise have improved though we have not selected as higher.

One other note of interest is the organizational rankings. NJ has basically been near us in the order of selections of the past 5 years and the isles have enjoyed a much better position from which to make their selections and yet both have faired poorly. NJ, dispite the extremely high and generous rankings they afford their picks are 29th and yet they have enjoyed the most consistent organizational personnel of the three and have drafted the worst.

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Old
10-24-2009, 11:20 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
On MDZ, now he is the favorite to win the Calder et c.

But we should hold our horses some. Most of his pts have come after nothing-out-of-the-ordinary-for-a-solid-NHL-PPQB-type-of-plays -- if you get what I mean.
How does making "nothing-out-of-the-ordinary-for-a-solid-NHL-PPQB-type-of-plays" not make Del Zotto a Calder Trophy front runner? I know you didn't say that directly, but the implication is certainly there. If a rookie steps into the league as an ordinary PP QB, he should be a Calder Finalist, at the least, because it means he's a more effective player offensively than 85% of the defensemen in the league. That's extremely rare for a rookie of any age.

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Old
10-24-2009, 11:23 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by NorthlandPro View Post
The organization is now at the point where they should go for a partiicular weakness, no not goaltending, physcial presence on the backline or upfront. Interesting how the organization has rebuilt itself. Many of the pretend expert on here never understood that to rebuild a team correctly you needed to start in the scouting and player personnel department. Often times the personnel you want are not available as they are under contract with other organizations. Slowly and painfully Sather has gathered a quality, competent staff. It is no coincidence that as the organizational staff has fallen into place that our selections likewise have improved though we have not selected as higher.

One other note of interest is the organizational rankings. NJ has basically been near us in the order of selections of the past 5 years and the isles have enjoyed a much better position from which to make their selections and yet both have faired poorly. NJ, dispite the extremely high and generous rankings they afford their picks are 29th and yet they have enjoyed the most consistent organizational personnel of the three and have drafted the worst.
Although I agree that the Rangers have one of the best farm and developments systems out there--I take these rankings with a grain of salt. The Devils do manage year after year to find a way to stay competitive and even once in a while even integrate quality young players from their system. The Islanders had a bunch of early round picks two years ago and Tavares and De Haan this year. A lot of those players still need further development but can hardly be considered busts at this point. We'll see what they do but their longer term future is not necessarily hopeless.

As for the Rangers Gordie Clark is a key man--the Rangers have an advantage in being a destination that many Europeans would like to go to (particularly Russian ones who scare off other teams--Cherepanov and Grachev) and have made good use of that advantage. There is an element of 'will they bust?' luck involved with almost any player a team picks though and it doesn't matter who it is. I think the Rangers started getting a bit more serious when just being a Ranger fan growing up stopped carrying any weight for us to draft him.

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Old
10-24-2009, 02:20 PM
  #61
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[QUOTE]As for the Rangers Gordie Clark is a key man--the Rangers have an advantage in being a destination that many Europeans would like to go to (particularly Russian ones who scare off other teams--Cherepanov and Grachev) and have made good use of that advantage.[QUOTE]

Both of these are very important and have had a big effect on the Rangers being so successful.

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