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I wanna know where the goals at: 10/21 - CANES @ New York Islanders, 7:00

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Old
10-22-2009, 08:25 PM
  #176
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I find it amusing that when the Canes give up leads in the 3rd period, it's always "Man that point (or points) can make a huge difference at the end of the year, it can be the difference between making and missing the playoffs!" A home game against Edmonton last year comes to mind.

Yet, when they claw back the way they did against the Islanders and gain a point that, with 10 minutes remaining, every single one of you could not have envisioned getting, it's "Man these guys are terrible, I'm starting a When Should Coach Mo Be Fired thread, and all of our offseason moves SUCK."

They are a better team than last year. When (not if) they get out of the early season funk, all will be good.

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10-22-2009, 09:07 PM
  #177
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I agree with that sentiment.

However, a player that has really shocked me in a bad way in the early going has been Yelle. I thought he was going to come here and quickly become a fan favorite for his balls out play and penalty killing prowess, but he has been really.... lack luster out there. To a degree, the same story with Kostopolous aside from that awesome shorty. I expected these two to be flying around and causing trouble on the 4th line but thus far they've just kind of been there.

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10-22-2009, 09:21 PM
  #178
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Even we suck so far i really like Scottie this season. He's awesome. Maybe only who really try and want to play hockey every minute. Alberts it's not bad too. I liked him.

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10-22-2009, 09:37 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caniacho View Post
Even we suck so far i really like Scottie this season. He's awesome. Maybe only who really try and want to play hockey every minute. Alberts it's not bad too. I liked him.
Same.

Good:

Alberts
Walker
Pitkanen
Ruutu
Cam
Jokinen
Gleason

Bad:

Larose
Staal
Yelle
Cullen
Samsonov

I think everybody else has been a neutral charge. Brind'Amour has been borderline good, relatively speaking. Whitney has been Whitney, despite decreased production. Aaron Ward is bordering closer to bad for me.

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10-22-2009, 10:06 PM
  #180
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However, a player that has really shocked me in a bad way in the early going has been Yelle. I thought he was going to come here and quickly become a fan favorite for his balls out play and penalty killing prowess, but he has been really.... lack luster out there. To a degree, the same story with Kostopolous aside from that awesome shorty. I expected these two to be flying around and causing trouble on the 4th line but thus far they've just kind of been there.

I couldn't agree more with what you just said there. I also expected that essence of tremendous spark & energy, and I just have yet to see it. With that said, both Yelle and Kostopoulos aren't getting anywhere near the Even Strength minutes that they had last season and were successful with.

Last season when Yelle had more of an impact with Boston, he was getting a lot more minutes (13:16 per game) in comparison to now (8:32), however PP & PK time aside and talking Even Strength minutes, which is big in terms of how the coaching staff spreads out the minutes, Yelle averaged 10:57 in even strength ice time per game, damn close to 11:00 per game. As of right now his even strength minutes average at 5:52. Big, big difference.

As I said, Yelle averaged a total of 13:16 minutes per game. Some of the others to name a few - Wheeler (13:41), Kobasew (14:41), Ryder (14:55), Lucic (14:56).

More importantly for me, it's the Even Strength minutes - Yelle (10:57), almost 11 minutes a game at even strength. Next in line - Wheeler (11:34), Ryder (11:49), Axelsson (12:00), Bergeron (12:35), Krejci (12:40). That's not a big difference in minutes, a few shifts.

Boston balanced their even strength attack and they rolled their lines very well from lines 1-4. Personally, I think we should be doing the same. I believe we have the depth to do so. Guys like Yelle and Kostopoulos can play, and when they can average 10 minutes per game (even strength) they can make an impact. Even Kostopoulos averaged 11:55 per game in Even Strength minutes per game. That's huge for a player of his game. Especially when you compare his Even Strength numbers to those around him. The highest average even strength minutes per game on Montreal last season went to Kovalev at 13:41, and Kostopoulos had very close to 12:00. Compare that to today with our Even Strength minutes per game leader - Staal (14:32) to Kostopoulos (6:23) & Yelle (5:52). That's a big difference. For Boston, Savard led Average Even Strength minutes (14:13) while Yelle had almost 11:00. I'm not saying Kostopoulos or Yelle should be right up there with Staal, but they could be getting more minutes in my honest opinion.

When we got these guys they were praised by the fans they were leaving, and for good reason. They were also given minutes to demonstrate what they can do. It's a bit tough to do that when you're getting 5-6 minutes per game at even strength. It's almost like taking something that works and changing it. You don't try fix what isn't broken. In this case, these guys can be more of an impact, but they also need the minutes to do it and become more noticeable in my opinion. I feel both Yelle and Kostopoulos could be more of an imapct if they were given similar minutes to that in which they excelled in last season.

If Kostopoulos can be recognized and praised by fans of Montreal and Yelle can stand out on a tremendous Bruins team, there is no reason it cannot be done here. No reason what so ever. Maurice... i'm looking at you.


Last edited by Guerzy: 10-22-2009 at 10:16 PM.
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Old
10-22-2009, 10:22 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
stuff.
Your points are well taken. If Staal would get off the ice once in a while, others could play.

He takes some of the longest shifts I've ever seen.

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10-22-2009, 10:27 PM
  #182
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Your points are well taken. If Staal would get off the ice once in a while, others could play.

He takes some of the longest shifts I've ever seen.

The coaching staff can change that. Quite easily.

There is no excuse for it in my opinion. The minutes these guys play falls directly on the shoulders of Maurice and how he manages his assets. Evidently we're not getting the best out of the likes of Yelle or Kostopoulos. We've taken them from an environment in which they were successful (minutes wise) and we've given them a complete role reversal, or minimized their roles big time, if you will. They're not being utilized like they were with their respective teams last season therefore I find it hard to expect the impact we expected when we signed them. For me, that explains a lot as to why these two aren't being the impact checkers & energy guys they were with their respective teams last season. You'd think they could be more efficient with the 5-6 Even Strength minutes per game they're getting, that could be debated. But truth be told, they're simply not getting the opportunity in which made them successful in prior years and most notably last season. I'd bet if Montreal or Boston gave them these peanuts for minutes last season, they'd be looked upon not so highly. It has nothing to do with #12 for me, it's the bench boss.

Bah, I'm getting carried away. End of rant.


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Old
10-22-2009, 10:37 PM
  #183
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The coaching staff can change that. Quite easily. There is no excuse for it in my opinion. The minutes these guys play falls directly on the shoulders of Maurice and how he is managing his assets.
You've never seen players take extended shifts and not pay the price for it? You must be a young'un

Kovalev, Jagr, Spezza, just to name a few. Hell, Gretzky did it too. Problem is, these are franchise players, and it's frowned upon for coaches to bench these guys.

This is on Staal, IMO. Step up, be a leader...and use the wraparound a little more judiciously.

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10-22-2009, 10:53 PM
  #184
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I am stepping up and making this gdt. Guaranteed Victory.

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10-22-2009, 10:56 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Sens1Canes2 View Post
You've never seen players take extended shifts and not pay the price for it? You must be a young'un

Kovalev, Jagr, Spezza, just to name a few. Hell, Gretzky did it too. Problem is, these are franchise players, and it's frowned upon for coaches to bench these guys.

This is on Staal, IMO. Step up, be a leader...and use the wraparound a little more judiciously.
Story time before Mommy & Daddy tuck this young'un off to bed.

Years ago in the OHL when a player on the team complained about his ice time (Not going to name names... Jody Hull), as he believed he was not getting enough, guess who didn't step a foot off the ice for 40 minutes and two straight periods of play? Jody Hull. What happened through those two periods each and every time (literally) Jody came to the bench to end his shift... Dick Todd looked at him and pointed right back out to the ice. You want more ice time kid? You're getting it. By the way at the current time he did not deserve more ice time based on a few things. Point being - Nobody is bigger than the team and when ice time needs adjusted, there are ways around it. There is one head coach on a team and it is his job to, as I said, manage his assets in order to get maximum production from his team, top to bottom.

You don't need to bench anybody. Discuss it in the office, the locker room, behind closed doors, a 1-on-1 during practice. Again, Maurice is the coach of this team, if something needs fixed or adjusted, he's the man to do it. Period.


Last edited by Guerzy: 10-22-2009 at 11:59 PM.
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Old
10-22-2009, 11:22 PM
  #186
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Haha I was just going to post that myself. It's one of my favorite hockey stories.

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10-23-2009, 01:04 AM
  #187
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The thing about Kostopolous and Yelle is that even in their brief amount of icetime, I thought we'd see more from them. I remember when Larose was just breaking out. Every time he touched the ice, he set it on fire. I was expecting some of the same from those two guys, because that was their reputation prior to coming in. There has to be a chicken and egg scenario here. Are they not getting much ice because they're not playing well or are they not playing well because they're not getting much ice? I suppose it could go either way, but from just my own amateur viewpoint it seems to me that they're just not doing enough right now to justify that kind of faith in them. Nearly the same way that Larose had to earn the trust of Maurice when he took over, as he likely thought he was Laviolette's pet project, I would like to see these two guys do the same.

And speaking of Larose, where has his fire been this year? I know he just cashed in on a pretty healthy deal... but seriously. He's not the same guy out there right now. He needs to find that reckless abandon he has historically had no problem conjuring. I don't even see him jawing and being a pest.... which has never previously come and gone from his game.

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10-23-2009, 01:10 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
Story time before Mommy & Daddy tuck this young'un off to bed.

Years ago in the OHL when a player on the team complained about his ice time (Not going to name names... Jody Hull), as he believed he was not getting enough, guess who didn't step a foot off the ice for 40 minutes and two straight periods of play? Jody Hull. What happened through those two periods each and every time (literally) Jody came to the bench to end his shift... Dick Todd looked at him and pointed right back out to the ice. You want more ice time kid? You're getting it. By the way at the current time he did not deserve more ice time based on a few things. Point being - Nobody is bigger than the team and when ice time needs adjusted, there are ways around it. There is one head coach on a team and it is his job to, as I said, manage his assets in order to get maximum production from his team, top to bottom.

You don't need to bench anybody. Discuss it in the office, the locker room, behind closed doors, a 1-on-1 during practice. Again, Maurice is the coach of this team, if something needs fixed or adjusted, he's the man to do it. Period.


Thanks for the stowy dad! Me liked it vewy much.

And by the way, I think it's a much needed change. It's something minor that could end up helping us out in a big way...

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10-23-2009, 08:31 AM
  #189
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The thing about Kostopolous and Yelle is that even in their brief amount of icetime, I thought we'd see more from them. I remember when Larose was just breaking out. Every time he touched the ice, he set it on fire. I was expecting some of the same from those two guys, because that was their reputation prior to coming in. There has to be a chicken and egg scenario here. Are they not getting much ice because they're not playing well or are they not playing well because they're not getting much ice? I suppose it could go either way, but from just my own amateur viewpoint it seems to me that they're just not doing enough right now to justify that kind of faith in them. Nearly the same way that Larose had to earn the trust of Maurice when he took over, as he likely thought he was Laviolette's pet project, I would like to see these two guys do the same.

Absolutely. You'd think they'd be the kind of guys who could make a lot out of nothing. For instance, in those 5-6 minutes provide the spark such as LaRose did at his time of breaking in/earning the trust of a new coach. Afterall, they should have the energy to do so simply based on lack of 'using it'. They should be able to make more with less simply because their respective games revolve around energy and physicality, we're not talking points here. Now, if we were talking a 1/2 liner getting lower ice time than it's easier in my opinion to excuse lack of impact/production, but in terms of energy guys... I can't think of too many instances this season where they've provided it. Here's hoping you're right and these two earn more icetime and blossom into something special here. Then again, if they have to earn ice time, why doesn't everyone else? They're doing nothing to impress yet still getting the minutes. I really think they're an integral part of this teams potential to succeed and a couple guys who can really get lines 1-3 moving.


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Old
10-23-2009, 10:16 AM
  #190
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Yeah, I haven't seen much from either Kostopolous or Yelle, though of the two, the former has been more noticeable. The only time you notice Yelle is out there is when he's taking an unnecessary holding/hooking penalty.

I disagree about LaRose though. He's not been as noticeable as previous years, but he's been creating about the same scoring chances. He's hit a couple posts, been robbed a couple times, just been having some really bad luck.

He's also been out there stirring it up like in the past. Heck, in the past game, he's stepped in when one of the Islanders started taking liberties with a Cane (Corvo?). And of course, his feud with Chara continued this year.

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10-23-2009, 01:33 PM
  #191
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I disagree about LaRose though. He's not been as noticeable as previous years, but he's been creating about the same scoring chances. He's hit a couple posts, been robbed a couple times, just been having some really bad luck.
In the last game, twice he skated down the right wing and at about the top of the offensive zone faceoff circle skated the puck right into the defender in front of him, who said thankyouverymuch and cleared the zone. His lack of body control with a defender pushing on his arm ruined a goalden (intentionally misspelled) opportunity for Staal and Whitney when he lost his balance into the net frame and dislodged it.

I challenge you to give 5 examples of where he's created scoring opportunities. A friendly challenge, mind you...nothing personal.

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10-23-2009, 02:07 PM
  #192
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In the last game, twice he skated down the right wing and at about the top of the offensive zone faceoff circle skated the puck right into the defender in front of him, who said thankyouverymuch and cleared the zone. His lack of body control with a defender pushing on his arm ruined a goalden (intentionally misspelled) opportunity for Staal and Whitney when he lost his balance into the net frame and dislodged it.

I challenge you to give 5 examples of where he's created scoring opportunities. A friendly challenge, mind you...nothing personal.
You're going to blame him for getting interfered with and dislodging the net? Heck, if he had drawn the penalty associated with that play, it'd be a positive, not a negative.

And off the top of my head, I remember LaRose getting robbed by Nitty in the 2nd Tampa game. I also remember him hitting the post in one of the two against Tampa. He also hit the post against Marty B.

I think a lot of our trouble scoring would be resolved by have consistent lines for more than a game or two. If I remember correctly, LaRose has played with every player on the team this year. He played a couple games with Yelle and Non-Stop, spent time with Whitney and Staal. A couple games with Samsonov and Brindamour, and some time with Cullen.

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10-23-2009, 02:10 PM
  #193
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I find it amusing that when the Canes give up leads in the 3rd period, it's always "Man that point (or points) can make a huge difference at the end of the year, it can be the difference between making and missing the playoffs!" A home game against Edmonton last year comes to mind.

Yet, when they claw back the way they did against the Islanders and gain a point that, with 10 minutes remaining, every single one of you could not have envisioned getting, it's "Man these guys are terrible, I'm starting a When Should Coach Mo Be Fired thread, and all of our offseason moves SUCK."

They are a better team than last year. When (not if) they get out of the early season funk, all will be good.

When you have claw back against the only winless team in league and you are 12th in the conference at that time... You are terrible

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10-23-2009, 02:22 PM
  #194
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When you have claw back against the only winless team in league and you are 12th in the conference at that time... You are terrible
because bad teams can't have good nights and good teams can't have bad nights.

There are some incredible over reactions to the slow start to this season. Its a long season, relax a little.

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10-23-2009, 02:26 PM
  #195
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You're going to blame him for getting interfered with and dislodging the net?
He didn't get interfered with. It was clear from the replay that he was muscled out of the way and he lost balance on his right skate and fell into the net.

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10-23-2009, 02:36 PM
  #196
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He didn't get interfered with. It was clear from the replay that he was muscled out of the way and he lost balance on his right skate and fell into the net.
Must have been a different replay then, since the one I saw had him standing to the side of the net and getting checked into the net.

The fact of the matter is, more than once this season, LaRose has led the team in shots by the end of the night. Now, I don't care where you rank LaRose (2nd/3rd/4th liner), at no time should he be outshooting the big names on this team. It either shows an increased effort by LaRose, or a complete lack of effort by the team around him.

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10-23-2009, 03:11 PM
  #197
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Ive tried to not post but I cant hold back anymore.

The panick on this board is eerily similar to the panick at this time last year. Listen to the Sens guy, he speaks truth.

Where's the we need to trade cam ward thread? You guys have fired the coach, got your deals all set up for the trade deadline and are now benching the top players.

This is great stuff. Did you think the Isles would go 0-82 all season? Do you think the Canes will go 0-41 on the road all season. Im sure all the SO losses are Cams fault because he should win them even his if teamates arent scoring on the other end either right?

relax, its a freakin game and they only played 8 of 82 so far. The coach needs to step up and take control. Maybe a little more direction and instruction? The captain who is famous for leading by example better inject some life into the dressing room and start winning face offs. All this is fixable and will take more than just a few games.

And where is anton babchuk when we need him???? None of this would feel so bad if only Anton was still here.

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10-23-2009, 03:32 PM
  #198
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And where is anton babchuk when we need him???? None of this would feel so bad if only Anton was still here.
2 goals, 3 assists in 10 games with the KHL.

Besides, I believe in the Jersey topic, we were given permission to panic if/when we lose another game on this roadtrip.

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10-23-2009, 03:41 PM
  #199
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because bad teams can't have good nights and good teams can't have bad nights.

There are some incredible over reactions to the slow start to this season. Its a long season, relax a little.
Being in 12th place doesn't make us a good team... You don't know if we are good... I don't know if we are bad, but there a lot more bad signs than good so far.. That's all I'm saying

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10-23-2009, 03:53 PM
  #200
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Being in 12th place doesn't make us a good team... You don't know if we are good... I don't know if we are bad, but there a lot more bad signs than good so far.. That's all I'm saying
Never said we were a good team, just that the logic of having to crawl back in a game with a bad team does not = being a bad team.

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