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What Teams Need To Rebuild...

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Old
10-25-2009, 12:10 AM
  #26
detredWINgs
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I'd trade Harding and Zidlicky and probably the 2nd round for this year to Detroit for Kronwall in a heartbeat!!

Minnesota would put anyone on the block with the exception of: Havlat, Koivu, Clutterbuck, and possibly Burns depending on what we could get in return with him.
Detroit wouldn't do that in a heartbeat. We have more puck-movers than we know what to do with, and we need a goalie that is proven.

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10-25-2009, 12:11 AM
  #27
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Interested at all in an Orpik(who skates very well)/Caputi for Setoguchi/Petrecki deal?
Yikes, no way. Orpik would be a nice addition, but I doubt Doug Wilson would even consider trading Petrecki or Setoguchi for him, let alone dealing both. If the Sharks had say, Chris Pronger, instead of Dan Boyle, I could see a Setoguchi for Letang type deal. But at this point, Setoguchi is too valuable to the Sharks to move for anything short of a young defenseman equally as highly-regarded, like a Ryan Suter.

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10-25-2009, 12:15 AM
  #28
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Yikes, no way. Orpik would be a nice addition, but I doubt Doug Wilson would even consider trading Petrecki or Setoguchi for him, let alone dealing both. If the Sharks had say, Chris Pronger, instead of Dan Boyle, I could see a Setoguchi for Letang type deal. But at this point, Setoguchi is too valuable to the Sharks to move for anything short of a young defenseman equally as highly-regarded, like a Ryan Suter.
No prob. It may be a stretch to suggest DW wouldn't deal Petrecki for a guy who's basically his upside with extensive playoff experience, but I understand not wanting to part with Seto and there may be an aspect of Petrecki's game that I'm missing.

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10-25-2009, 12:16 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
That's cool. While Letang's no Kronwall on the intimidation front, he's more physical than he gets credit for and does play the body often - more than any Pens defenseman but Orpik, and more than Kronwall too. But I understand wanting mobile "big" hitter back there who can splay people out.

Interested at all in an Orpik(who skates very well)/Caputi for Setoguchi/Petrecki deal?
Come on man.

So you want our best prospect and a potential 40-40 physical first line forward who perfectly fits our system, for your hard hitting number 4 d-man, and a midrange prospect (Caputi may become a top 6 forward, but I wouldn't bet on it).

Don't get me wrong, I will be satisfied if Petrecki becomes a player similar to Orpik (though I am personally hoping for something more like Reghr), but that offer is atrocious.

Petrecki>Caputi
Setoguchi>Orpik

I wouldn't move Setoguchi for Kronwall either, but I would at least consider it.

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10-25-2009, 12:25 AM
  #30
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Come on man.

So you want our best prospect and a potential 40-40 physical first line forward who perfectly fits our system, for your hard hitting number 4 d-man, and a midrange prospect (Caputi may become a top 6 forward, but I wouldn't bet on it).

Don't get me wrong, I will be satisfied if Petrecki becomes a player similar to Orpik (though I am personally hoping for something more like Reghr), but that offer is atrocious.

Petrecki>Caputi
Setoguchi>Orpik

I wouldn't move Setoguchi for Kronwall either, but I would at least consider it.
Relax friend, just putting it out there.

Defensemen as mobile as Orpik who hit as hard and often as he does are an extremely rare breed (for the record, he's been our top-pairing guy with Gonchar since last season), never mind ones with his playoff resume. I don't see Petrecki as much more likely to reach his potential as Caputi is his (aren't we all a bit biased toward our own youngsters?), but you're entitled to your opinion.

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Old
10-25-2009, 12:48 AM
  #31
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Minnesota is not going to go into a full-rebuild mode. Chuck Fletcher felt that this team was a playoff team, and went out and traded assets for Chuck Kobasew to improve the team with injuries.
If the Wild are out of it at the deadline, the Wild will trade off players as rentals for assets. Kim Johnsson would be the best "rental" d-man available if they cannot work out an extension, and would fetch a really nice return IMO. Marek Zidlicky would probably be the best "powerplay-quarterback" "rental" available, so if there is a playoff team in need of powerplay help, he could help significantly there. Owen Nolan has not performed well early on this year, but his playoff performance with the Flames in 07-08, combined with his solid 08-09 season, and his intangibles, will be sought after at the deadline as well. Josh Harding is available, but Fletcher has set the price high for him. Derek Boogaard would likely be available. Petr Sykora would be available if Petr Sykora wants to be traded. Eric Belanger could be moved. If James Sheppard or Benoit Pouliot frustrates Todd Richards, they could be available. Antti Miettinen could be had. Pierre-Marc Bouchard should be available for expiring contracts or a small return/overpaid decent player like himself. Teams would like Brunette, but with another year remaining and his leadership/chemistry with Koivu will likely keep him with the Wild.

To sum it up, the Wild's assets who IMO could be moved up to the deadline, are(in terms of picks, prospects of similar value would obviously be considered):

Kim Johnsson - 1st round pick at least(He is the only guy on this list I'd be ecstatic about returning to the Wild next season, and I do hope they get an extension done)
Josh Harding - somewhere around a 1st rounder
Marek Zidlicky - 2nd, maybe a little more
James Sheppard - Can't see them giving a top-10 pick away for nothing at the age of 21, but I can't see anyone giving up much.
Pierre-Marc Bouchard(4.08M cap hit through 2012/13) - expiring contracts, conditional picks, or maybe an overpaid player(Personally I'd trade him for Jason Blake straight up). *Concussion may cause him to be unavailable.
Owen Nolan - 3rd round pick, unless he improves his performance
Eric Belanger - 3rd round pick(IMO he's better than Dominic Moore who got a 2nd last year)
Derek Boogaard - anything
Antti Miettinen(2.33M cap hit for 2010/11 as well) - anything

The rest, I don't see them being moved.

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Old
10-25-2009, 12:55 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by saywut View Post
Minnesota is not going to go into a full-rebuild mode. Chuck Fletcher felt that this team was a playoff team, and went out and traded assets for Chuck Kobasew to improve the team with injuries.
If the Wild are out of it at the deadline, the Wild will trade off players as rentals for assets. Kim Johnsson would be the best "rental" d-man available if they cannot work out an extension, and would fetch a really nice return IMO. Marek Zidlicky would probably be the best "powerplay-quarterback" "rental" available, so if there is a playoff team in need of powerplay help, he could help significantly there. Owen Nolan has not performed well early on this year, but his playoff performance with the Flames in 07-08, combined with his solid 08-09 season, and his intangibles, will be sought after at the deadline as well. Josh Harding is available, but Fletcher has set the price high for him. Derek Boogaard would likely be available. Petr Sykora would be available if Petr Sykora wants to be traded. Eric Belanger could be moved. If James Sheppard or Benoit Pouliot frustrates Todd Richards, they could be available. Antti Miettinen could be had. Pierre-Marc Bouchard should be available for expiring contracts or a small return/overpaid decent player like himself. Teams would like Brunette, but with another year remaining and his leadership/chemistry with Koivu will likely keep him with the Wild.

To sum it up, the Wild's assets who IMO could be moved up to the deadline, are(in terms of picks, prospects of similar value would obviously be considered):

Kim Johnsson - 1st round pick at least(He is the only guy on this list I'd be ecstatic about returning to the Wild next season, and I do hope they get an extension done)
Josh Harding - somewhere around a 1st rounder
Marek Zidlicky - 2nd, maybe a little more
James Sheppard - Can't see them giving a top-10 pick away for nothing at the age of 21, but I can't see anyone giving up much.
Pierre-Marc Bouchard(4.08M cap hit through 2012/13) - expiring contracts, conditional picks, or maybe an overpaid player(Personally I'd trade him for Jason Blake straight up). *Concussion may cause him to be unavailable.
Owen Nolan - 3rd round pick, unless he improves his performance
Eric Belanger - 3rd round pick(IMO he's better than Dominic Moore who got a 2nd last year)
Derek Boogaard - anything
Antti Miettinen(2.33M cap hit for 2010/11 as well) - anything

The rest, I don't see them being moved.

The only way that I want Johnsson to come back is if he takes a paycut by about $1M. He isn't worth even close to what he is making for the role he was brought into Minnesota for in the first place. He was supposed to help bolster the offensive on the blueline....that hasn't happened.

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Old
10-25-2009, 01:03 AM
  #33
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The only way that I want Johnsson to come back is if he takes a paycut by about $1M. He isn't worth even close to what he is making for the role he was brought into Minnesota for in the first place. He was supposed to help bolster the offensive on the blueline....that hasn't happened.
Typical Wild fan response. The guy is by-far the best d-man on this team even strength, if you think Schultz or Zidlicky are rightfully paid, then Johnsson is as well, because they are at best 2nd pairing guys, and Johnsson is a top-2 d-man on quite a few teams. Burns is paid on potential, so he is not a fair comparison(and right now, Johnsson at 4.85 > Burns at 3.55 for on-ice performance). His role has changed, he hasn't gotten the PP time he was anticipated to get(Hell with MAB, Zidlicky, Burns, and Bouchard, he got minuscule time last year), but he has been a difference maker.

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Old
10-25-2009, 12:52 PM
  #34
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Nashville needs to rebuild. They have looked pretty flat and have two impending free agents in net.
I would bet one of them is re-signed by Christmas, and based on their play so far this season, it's going to be Ellis. They've both crapped the bed once, but Dan has been the more consistent of the two.

But I do agree that we need at least a partial rebuild. Martin Erat needs to go ASAP. If I didn't know better, I would swear he's actually trying to be the worst player on the ice. Hamhuis will likely get moved in February, if he can get healthy. Tootoo likely won't be traded, if only to give the fans a reason to come to games.

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Old
10-25-2009, 02:21 PM
  #35
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San Jose needs to and probably will rebuild their defense, but that will probably happen in the off-season, considering they are going to probably finish with a high seed in the West. Blake will be gone, thank heaven, and hopefully someone is stupid enough to take Kent Huskins. Douglas Murray could be useful on a team with a lot of defensive depth, he's solid in his own zone and if he plays with a partner that can counter his amazing lack of footspeed, he could be valuable.

I think the Kings would be interested in Ryane Clowe, the Sharks need to shed his salary and he is replacable. Clowe for picks/prospects might be realistic during next summer.
Leafs will happily take Clowe

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Old
10-25-2009, 02:27 PM
  #36
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Old
10-25-2009, 02:47 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
I would bet one of them is re-signed by Christmas, and based on their play so far this season, it's going to be Ellis. They've both crapped the bed once, but Dan has been the more consistent of the two.

But I do agree that we need at least a partial rebuild. Martin Erat needs to go ASAP. If I didn't know better, I would swear he's actually trying to be the worst player on the ice. Hamhuis will likely get moved in February, if he can get healthy. Tootoo likely won't be traded, if only to give the fans a reason to come to games.
I figure that Dumont and Sullivan would draw a lot of interest from playoff contending teams. Arnott as well, although it seems his body is starting to fall apart. Nashville's strength is on the back end and they have the depth to move Hamhuis and carry on with Weber and Suter leading the charge on the blueline.

Erat's contract is a detriment, so Nashville would likely have to take in a bad contract to get rid of his. They need help up front and could use an upgrade in net as I'm not sold on Ellis or Rinne as being #1 starters.

Maybe a deal with Atlanta involving Kari Lehtonen could be worked, or with Anaheim for Giguere.

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Old
10-25-2009, 02:48 PM
  #38
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At the most, a team is 10 games in, so no team should be considering rebuilding already.

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Old
10-25-2009, 03:04 PM
  #39
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Harding, Bouchard and Sheppard for Tlusty, Grabovski and Blake.

Harding we need some one like him does Minnesota?
Bouchard, is worth a shot and if we can get rid of Blake
Sheppard, change of scenario might get the best out of him, to young to labelled a bust.


Tlusty, see Sheppard.
Grabovski, ok player. Offensively gifted. Not a favourite of mine.
Blake, not awful as a player but I would really want to get rid of him and his contract.

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Old
10-25-2009, 04:40 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I figure that Dumont and Sullivan would draw a lot of interest from playoff contending teams. Arnott as well, although it seems his body is starting to fall apart. Nashville's strength is on the back end and they have the depth to move Hamhuis and carry on with Weber and Suter leading the charge on the blueline.
Both bolded portions couldn't be further from the truth. Our depth of defenseman has been strained to the point that we're icing 5 NHL defenders when we're fully healthy (Weber, Suter, Hamhuis, Bouillon, Sulzer), and the only guys that are likely to make the jump in the minors are Laakso and Blum, the former of whom has already been at this level and looked overwhelmed. Franson has some offensive tools, but still needs to flesh out his game if he's going to stick at this level. Klein... I don't know what to say about Klein. I've never seen that kind of developmental implosion from a defender before. We do have some solid prospects deeper in the pipeline, but other than Josi, they're all probably four years away.

Our depth now is in goaltenders. We now have five guys that could potentially make something of themselves at the NHL level.

Dumont won't be moved, as he has a NMC, loves the city, and is one of the few players who is playing respectably. He may well be our next captain. Sullivan, after all that waiting and such solid play last year, can go wherever the wind may take him, IMO. He hasn't played well since the opener in Dallas.

Quote:
Erat's contract is a detriment, so Nashville would likely have to take in a bad contract to get rid of his. They need help up front and could use an upgrade in net as I'm not sold on Ellis or Rinne as being #1 starters.
Ellis can be a starting goaltender, at least as a placeholder for one of the younger guys, but the team can't be as unorganized in front of them as we have been this year or he'll get eaten alive by his own rebounds.

Quote:
Maybe a deal with Atlanta involving Kari Lehtonen could be worked, or with Anaheim for Giguere.
We wouldn't be interested in either of those players, I don't think. Lehtonen, maybe, if it means ditching a bad contract, but not otherwise. We have too many guys coming up behind Rinne and Ellis as it is.


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Old
10-25-2009, 05:30 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
Harding, Bouchard and Sheppard for Tlusty, Grabovski and Blake.

Harding we need some one like him does Minnesota?
Bouchard, is worth a shot and if we can get rid of Blake
Sheppard, change of scenario might get the best out of him, to young to labelled a bust.


Tlusty, see Sheppard.
Grabovski, ok player. Offensively gifted. Not a favourite of mine.
Blake, not awful as a player but I would really want to get rid of him and his contract.
Could work, the Wild would need to open a little space(Nolan or Belanger), and Bouchard would have to get healthy. Grabovski would solve the Wilds need for a #2 center, Blake would help them in the scoring department, and Tlusty could play the rest of the year in the minors, maybe he and Kalus could find some chemistry down there, and maybe replace Sykora as Havlat's left winger next year. Could also be done in the offseason as none of the 6 are pending UFAs. Sheppard does seem like a guy Burke might like, hes strong and willing to fight, even if he doesn't start producing he is basically already a decent 3rd line center.

From a Wild perspective, I'd take it. Sheppard for Tlusty, Harding for Grabovski, Bouchard for Blake, any of those individually could work as well.

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10-25-2009, 05:48 PM
  #42
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The Leafs are apparently rebuilding and would love to acquire a 1st and/or 2nd rounder somehow for the next entry draft. A 1st rounder for the following draft would be nice, too. Perhaps some junk like Stajan, Finger, Grabovski, Hagman, or whatever other crap would be of interest.

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10-25-2009, 06:02 PM
  #43
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Could work, the Wild would need to open a little space(Nolan or Belanger), and Bouchard would have to get healthy. Grabovski would solve the Wilds need for a #2 center, Blake would help them in the scoring department, and Tlusty could play the rest of the year in the minors, maybe he and Kalus could find some chemistry down there, and maybe replace Sykora as Havlat's left winger next year. Could also be done in the offseason as none of the 6 are pending UFAs. Sheppard does seem like a guy Burke might like, hes strong and willing to fight, even if he doesn't start producing he is basically already a decent 3rd line center.

From a Wild perspective, I'd take it. Sheppard for Tlusty, Harding for Grabovski, Bouchard for Blake, any of those individually could work as well.
Would also shake both teams up a little bit.

Bold Yes, that was what I was thinking in a player for player trade. Prospect with more potential then they are showing right now, need for need and bad contract for bad contract. Blake would fit in nicely in Minnesota and Bouchard could be the playmaker Kessel need to score his goals. Might get the same chemistry he had with Savard going. We would need a big, strong player with a great deal of defensive awareness on that line dough.

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10-25-2009, 06:03 PM
  #44
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Typical Wild fan response. The guy is by-far the best d-man on this team even strength, if you think Schultz or Zidlicky are rightfully paid, then Johnsson is as well, because they are at best 2nd pairing guys, and Johnsson is a top-2 d-man on quite a few teams. Burns is paid on potential, so he is not a fair comparison(and right now, Johnsson at 4.85 > Burns at 3.55 for on-ice performance). His role has changed, he hasn't gotten the PP time he was anticipated to get(Hell with MAB, Zidlicky, Burns, and Bouchard, he got minuscule time last year), but he has been a difference maker.
Did you even read what I said or did you just get halfway through and give up? I said he was brought in to bolster the offensive blueline, which he never did. But let me ask you this then, since I'm just a "typical wild fan" what do you propose this team do in the offseason when it comes to signing players like Clutterbuck (shy of $800k this year) to probably $1.2M increase in pay and Harding ($1.1M) who will be close to $2M next year. Or are we not looking long term? No way that Johnnson deserves $4.8M for playing strictly as a defensive d-man. Hell we got Zanon and Hnidy for not even half of what his yearly salary is. This team isn't playing defense first anymore, we need players who can play both roles and right now Kim hasn't shown that he can do that anymore. I'm sorry, there are better defensment out there we can get for $1-2M cheaper.

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10-25-2009, 06:04 PM
  #45
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The Leafs are apparently rebuilding and would love to acquire a 1st and/or 2nd rounder somehow for the next entry draft. A 1st rounder for the following draft would be nice, too. Perhaps some junk like Stajan, Finger, Grabovski, Hagman, or whatever other crap would be of interest.
Junk? Sure neither are corner stones in a team rebuild or a cup push but they are all solid players for a 2nd line or a 3rd line. Or a 2nd or 3rd d-pair.

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10-25-2009, 06:36 PM
  #46
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Did you even read what I said or did you just get halfway through and give up? I said he was brought in to bolster the offensive blueline, which he never did. But let me ask you this then, since I'm just a "typical wild fan" what do you propose this team do in the offseason when it comes to signing players like Clutterbuck (shy of $800k this year) to probably $1.2M increase in pay and Harding ($1.1M) who will be close to $2M next year. Or are we not looking long term? No way that Johnnson deserves $4.8M for playing strictly as a defensive d-man. Hell we got Zanon and Hnidy for not even half of what his yearly salary is. This team isn't playing defense first anymore, we need players who can play both roles and right now Kim hasn't shown that he can do that anymore. I'm sorry, there are better defensment out there we can get for $1-2M cheaper.
Harding won't be back next year, he will be moved. Clutterbuck can take his qualifying offer or accept a multi-year deal at 1.25-1.5M, a raise easily attainable because Miettinen can be buried in the minors or bought out and replaced by a 500k player. Hnidy is terrible and will likely not be back next year. Who do you see that is a UFA that is a realistic #1 d-man to replace Johnsson, who is going to consider the Wild? Kim Johnsson is this team's #1, Brent Burns is not near that status, while Zanon and Schultz are complimentary top-4s. The gap between Johnsson and a player like Lydman, Tallinder, Kubina, Zidlicky, etc. is quite a bit, and that is what you are paying him ~2M more for. Only one guy I'd prefer to Johnsson, and that is Paul Martin(there is 0 chance in Gonchar/Lidstrom/Niedermayer), which is very unlikely, and to get him you are looking at ~6M per season, more than Johnsson will cost.

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10-25-2009, 09:52 PM
  #47
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From a Minnesota and Chicago stand point.

what about building a deal around 3 guys, from Minnesota, Brent Burns and Josh Harding, Harding isnt the best goalie in the world but he should be a starter and would be on the Hawks IMO.
And from Chicago Patrick Kane, hes a RFA this summer and would solve alot of offence issues for the Wild, plus he would free up cap space for the Hawks to resign Toews and Keith.

Minnesota- Brent Burns+Josh Harding and whatever else needs to be added

For

Chicago-Patrick Kane and whatever else needs to be added

It helps out both teams in more than 1 way, feel free to add and such to make it work, this is only a outline.

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Old
10-26-2009, 01:42 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by saywut View Post
Harding won't be back next year, he will be moved. Clutterbuck can take his qualifying offer or accept a multi-year deal at 1.25-1.5M, a raise easily attainable because Miettinen can be buried in the minors or bought out and replaced by a 500k player. Hnidy is terrible and will likely not be back next year. Who do you see that is a UFA that is a realistic #1 d-man to replace Johnsson, who is going to consider the Wild? Kim Johnsson is this team's #1, Brent Burns is not near that status, while Zanon and Schultz are complimentary top-4s. The gap between Johnsson and a player like Lydman, Tallinder, Kubina, Zidlicky, etc. is quite a bit, and that is what you are paying him ~2M more for. Only one guy I'd prefer to Johnsson, and that is Paul Martin(there is 0 chance in Gonchar/Lidstrom/Niedermayer), which is very unlikely, and to get him you are looking at ~6M per season, more than Johnsson will cost.
If we can't move Harding this year, we either try to trade him for a pick or resign him and hope next year he does better than what he is showing already. There is no need trying to push a sale of him now when his return is so much lower than what we would of gotten last year. Antti is on a one-way so moving him to the minors isn't going to happen next year considering he is signed until 2011-2012. Do we have anyone on the wings we can bring up to replace right away anyways? We have a great checking line IMO now. We need to get a legit #2 center to actually field a line with Brunno/Nolan. Sheppard and Benny are not doing anything with it.

Off the top of my head: Sutton, Leopold (a player who wanted to come to Minny but we had already made committments oto other players that made it impossible to sign him for what he would make elsewhere), Kaberle if we make a trade with Toronto. So there are options there that are not in the $5M range.

Also, food for thought for all Wild fans out there for next year, Mark Parrish's buyout goes from $700K to $900K

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10-26-2009, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by State Of Hockey 8 View Post
From a Minnesota and Chicago stand point.

what about building a deal around 3 guys, from Minnesota, Brent Burns and Josh Harding, Harding isnt the best goalie in the world but he should be a starter and would be on the Hawks IMO.
And from Chicago Patrick Kane, hes a RFA this summer and would solve alot of offence issues for the Wild, plus he would free up cap space for the Hawks to resign Toews and Keith.

Minnesota- Brent Burns+Josh Harding and whatever else needs to be added

For

Chicago-Patrick Kane and whatever else needs to be added

It helps out both teams in more than 1 way, feel free to add and such to make it work, this is only a outline.
I'd rather have Duncan Keith than Patrick Kane. You can call me nuts all you want, but if you lose the best prospected defensemen on the team, replace him with someone who is better then.

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10-26-2009, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
Maybe a three-way deal with Chicago where we get one of their top guys that they can't re-sign like Kane, send Frolov back,
Wow. Kane for an impending UFA Frolov. For a Chicago team expecting to make playoff noise... can it get worse than that?

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Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
How about some sort of trade swapping Frolov and Franzen?
Indeed. It can.

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