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Crosby's Wingers (I Didn't Know It Was This Bad)

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Old
10-28-2009, 09:09 AM
  #1
Funk311
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Crosby's Wingers (I Didn't Know It Was This Bad)

I'm usually a ride it out, things will come around type. But according to an article on the pens nhl site, Crosby has not registered an even strength assist for his wingers (Billy and Kuntz) all season.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt...rce=rss&feed=8

11 freakin games.


the team has been winning, but still i think our lines need some tinkering in order to bring out our teams full potential.

I don't know if i'de rather see TK or a call up get a shot with Sid for a few games. Prob TK because he is a strong player on the cycle and has been willing to shoot so far this year.

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10-28-2009, 09:13 AM
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Jebro
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Don't touch the 3rd line.

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10-28-2009, 09:20 AM
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tooocoool
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seriously, kunitz and guerin suck. They can't bury tons of scoring chance that crosby creates. I'd like to see Shero find him a real decent winger to play with. It's not fair for the kid when ovie has backstrom semin; thornton has heatly, kopitar has smyth...

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10-28-2009, 09:22 AM
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Darth Vitale
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Agreed on TK. The third line is arguably our best both in terms of stifling the opposition and scoring. I think some of the lack of scoring may be because of new stuff the coaching staff is implementing and partly because teams are really gearing up to stop our top two lines. The last thing you want to do in that case is break up the the third line, which has been very reliable.

I wouldn't have a problem with swapping Kunitz and Feds back and forth at different times in a game. Guerin is not known for his slow starts so it is a bit of a concern but the bottom line is we're not at a position where we need to start jumbling up the lines. Crosby and Guerin have shown good chemistry so patience is a more logical solution in October / November than panic. Especially given that we're 9-2. If we were 4-7 I might be more inclined to worry.

Do we still need a prime-time scoring winger? Of course it would help but context is everything. If we're struggling going into the Olympic break I'm confident Shero will make a solid move somewhere along the way. And we'll have to wait and see but I'm still hopeful Tangradi will be up here in a couple months.

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10-28-2009, 10:00 AM
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Gooch
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You can intermix several players on this team into the 3rd line and it will still maintain it's effectiveness. You don't have to have a freaking phobia of moving a player in and out of it. Trying Kennedy on a different line and having that different line produce for once will gain this team more than it will lose.

A quality 3rd line is great.... when the 1st and 2nd lines are good as well. But when all we have is a good 3rd line then we need to make something else work.

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10-28-2009, 10:12 AM
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Ziggyjoe21
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There's nothing wrong with Kunitz on Sid's wing. He's very reliable, even if he's not scoring, as proven by last year's playoffs. Guerin, on the other hand, is very old and getting less effective with every week. Not that he's down to Satan's level, but it wouldn't hurt to get a top 6 RW sometime this season, most likely at the deadline.
Also, Talbot can't come back soon enough. Watching Dupuis play in an offensive role is like watching someone play NHL 10 without knowing the controls.

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10-28-2009, 10:16 AM
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This was in no way meant to be an Armageddon, trade everyone for player X thread.

I really thought the 11 games no assists to his wingers thing was incredible. That line just hasn't seemed dominate this year, and that really slams the point home.

We have alot of talented players on this team and in the system, why not try a few new combos. TK to the first, Kunitz to the 3rd. We know Kunitz has played well there (limited sample), and maybe a more blue collar style would get his game going.

Who knows maybe tonight he'll bust out of the slump.

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10-28-2009, 10:19 AM
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Gooch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
There's nothing wrong with Kunitz on Sid's wing. He's very reliable, even if he's not scoring, as proven by last year's playoffs. Guerin, on the other hand, is very old and getting less effective with every week. Not that he's down to Satan's level, but it wouldn't hurt to get a top 6 RW sometime this season, most likely at the deadline.
Also, Talbot can't come back soon enough. Watching Dupuis play in an offensive role is like watching someone play NHL 10 without knowing the controls.
Well they sure know how to push the anolog stick back and forward.

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Old
10-28-2009, 10:29 AM
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Ugene Malkin
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Just because Kunitz does other things does not absolve him of his lack of scoring goals totally. This guy is a lock for 20 + goals generally and I would be happy if he had 2 or 3, then this would not be an issue. If he is going to be the assist guy on the left wing, he better get at least 50 of them this year.

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10-28-2009, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odds View Post
Just because Kunitz does other things does not absolve him of his lack of scoring goals totally. This guy is a lock for 20 + goals generally and I would be happy if he had 2 or 3, then this would not be an issue. If he is going to be the assist guy on the left wing, he better get at least 50 of them this year.
Gotta agree with that. If he wants the nice pay check he'll have to do more than a role player.

That being said I just don't think he fits Crosby's line. Kunitz is either the first guy in on the puck causing a turnover or playing as the third man high. He needs to be near or in the crease jamming away.

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10-28-2009, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
You can intermix several players on this team into the 3rd line and it will still maintain it's effectiveness. You don't have to have a freaking phobia of moving a player in and out of it. Trying Kennedy on a different line and having that different line produce for once will gain this team more than it will lose.

A quality 3rd line is great.... when the 1st and 2nd lines are good as well. But when all we have is a good 3rd line then we need to make something else work.
I agree with you to an extent, but I, personally, would not touch that third line right now. Dupuis should be on the fourth line. It's good to see Bourque getting a chance. In my opinion, Dupuis has had his chance. I don't hate Dupuis either, I just think he's a fourth/third liner. So on this team, that means fourth.
Anyway, things will be different when Talbot comes back, so until then, I think it's a good time to try Tangradi. How's this?

Guerin-Crosby-Tangradi
Fedotenko-Malkin-Kunitz
Cooke-Staal-Kennedy
Rupp(Bourque)-Adams-Dupuis(Godard)

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10-28-2009, 10:50 AM
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HandshakeLine
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Did anyone honestly expect a 40-year old Guerin to be tearing it up this year right out of the gate? C'mon.

I do think that Kunitz is a mismatch for that 1st line though. He'd work a lot better with Malkin, I think, since Malkin's more of a shoot-first kind of guy. The other option, I'd consider if the 2nd has to be left intact, would be to get someone with better legs than Guerin on that first line since he's really just not quite back to game speed yet and fans on a lot of shots because he seems to be just a half-second behind the play. Getting someone with better wheels out there might mitigate that a bit and also take advantage of Crosby's passing better.

Hell, you could do worse than giving Bourque a shot at that line for a game or two. Also, Tangradi's still injured, no? So, no calling him up.

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10-28-2009, 10:54 AM
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Coach John McGuirk
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I understand the need/want to keep the 3rd line together, but when the first two lines (centered by two of the best players in the world) are struggling this bad, something needs to be done. Even if that means breaking up the Staal line.

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10-28-2009, 11:00 AM
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gopens66
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Originally Posted by HandshakeLine View Post
Did anyone honestly expect a 40-year old Guerin to be tearing it up this year right out of the gate? C'mon.

I do think that Kunitz is a mismatch for that 1st line though. He'd work a lot better with Malkin, I think, since Malkin's more of a shoot-first kind of guy. The other option, I'd consider if the 2nd has to be left intact, would be to get someone with better legs than Guerin on that first line since he's really just not quite back to game speed yet and fans on a lot of shots because he seems to be just a half-second behind the play. Getting someone with better wheels out there might mitigate that a bit and also take advantage of Crosby's passing better.

Hell, you could do worse than giving Bourque a shot at that line for a game or two. Also, Tangradi's still injured, no? So, no calling him up.
I didn't realize that. I haven't followed the farm really at all and thought he was playing.

Can Luca play the right side? What about dropping Guerin to Malkin's left and Caputi on Crosby's left?

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10-28-2009, 11:09 AM
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Jebro
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I thought you guys hated Therrien, but you want to shuffle the lines when the Pens are 9-2?

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10-28-2009, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by gopens66 View Post
I didn't realize that. I haven't followed the farm really at all and thought he was playing.

Can Luca play the right side? What about dropping Guerin to Malkin's left and Caputi on Crosby's left?
I haven't been following the Baby Pens uberclosely this year, but Caputi was struggling a bit early on. I can't imagine he's ready for a cup of coffee yet.

And while I understand people's worries about the scoring, the fact of the matter is, we're still winning games. I really don't see ANYTHING happening until it's made necessary by us dropping several in a row.

To be honest, if someone told me before the off-season the only thing to complain about to start this season was Crosby not getting enough assists and Pascal Dupuis, I'd have thought they were crazy.

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10-28-2009, 11:13 AM
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I really want Shero to try and get Rene Bourque in the offseason, I'd love to see him riding shotgun for the two headed monster. I don't think Calgary will let him go though.

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10-28-2009, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by gopens66 View Post
I didn't realize that. I haven't followed the farm really at all and thought he was playing.

Can Luca play the right side? What about dropping Guerin to Malkin's left and Caputi on Crosby's left?
Barring injury, it is probable that neither of those guys (Tangradi and Caputi) will see the NHL this season. Shero has stated his intent not to rush either, especially Tangradi, so I would doubt that either of them see extensive duty this year beyond a spot start for someone who is injured.

Unless we develop one in the system, the Pens are probably never going to have an elite Kovalchuk-esque winger for Sid or Geno...that's the price were going to have to pay for having Sid, Geno, Staal, Fleury, Orpik, etc. We could pull everyone's favorite trade, Staal for (insert sniper here), but I really believe Shero's formula is dependent upon our unbelieveable strength down the middle, which would take a huge hit if we got rid of Jordan.

The formula isn't perfect, but you can't argue with it's success so far...

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10-28-2009, 11:22 AM
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Ugene Malkin
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Originally Posted by Zephirsage View Post
I thought you guys hated Therrien, but you want to shuffle the lines when the Pens are 9-2?
Top line wingers are 0 & 3 goal production.
Second line is 2 & 1
Third line is 2 & 5
4th line is 0 & 2

Not exactly that great other than Guerin and line three with Kennedy who seems to be out of this game. 2 from Rupp is a nice added bonus from the 4th line. A shake up is warranted if done.

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10-28-2009, 11:37 AM
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I really want Shero to try and get Rene Bourque in the offseason, I'd love to see him riding shotgun for the two headed monster. I don't think Calgary will let him go though.
Nope, we won't. I saw an interview with him last night and he said he loves Calgary, and wants to be a Flame for a long time. He also noted that he's very confident that if he continues his excellent play, that a deal will work itself out.

He's been an absolute diamond in the rough. Sutter has been excellent at identifying these players and getting them for next to nothing.

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10-28-2009, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Zephirsage View Post
I thought you guys hated Therrien, but you want to shuffle the lines when the Pens are 9-2?
There's a big difference between changing up the line-up from time to time and what Therrien did. There were games when Therrien wouldn't keep the same lines together DURING a game.

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10-28-2009, 12:20 PM
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TravisUlrich
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Don't touch the 3rd line.
Agreed.

Now, we're 9-2 so it seems silly to change things at this point. But I have thought that since our 3rd Line looks so good, maybe when Talbot gets back, we should move them up as the 2nd line and put the 2-headed monster out there on the 1st line.

Malkin-Crosby-Kunitz
Cooke-Staal-Kennedy
Fedotenko-Talbot-Guerin
Dupuis-Adams-Rupp

Quote:
"He's actually generated a lot of chances in the last couple of games," Crosby said, while decapitating a kitten. "That's always a good sign. For him, it's just a matter of time."
There goes Crosby *****ing about his wingers again!


Last edited by TravisUlrich: 10-28-2009 at 12:30 PM.
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Old
10-28-2009, 12:57 PM
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As long as the team keeps winning there is no reason to complain. I personally don't care if Crosby or Malkin trail in the scoring race due to their crap wingers. We knew when Crosby, Malkin and Staal all signed contracts that they wouldn't be playing with anybody too impressive unless they came up through the system.

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10-28-2009, 12:57 PM
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I just wanted to bring up Therrien to incite a riot, I know this isn't the same thing. I just don't think they will make a huge overhaul, they will 'sprinkle' as Steigy puts it, which tends to happen when the lines get shuffled on penalties and with injuries.

I like combining them, but I think Malkin would be centering crosby in terms of logistics. Sid would still take faceoffs of course. Geno is going to play the middle no matter where is positioned, and Sid rocks on the walls and down low so it's a natural fit.

Guerin is kind of stuck on the top line because any lower is just wasting his abilities because he's not going to use his energy to grind and cycle, while Kunitz is perfectly suited for that.

Crosby-Malkin-Guerin
Cooke-Staal-Kennedy
Fedotenko-Talbot-Kunitz
Dupuis-Adams-Rupp

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10-28-2009, 01:01 PM
  #25
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i wanna see 1 winger from top 2 lines trade places. i think guerin would do good with Malkin and maybe move Dupuis with Kunitz and Sid. What do you guys think?

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