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Fire Paul Holmgren Thread (and related front office screwups) - 09/10 Edition

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Old
03-04-2010, 01:20 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
Yes he should, do you disagree?
I don't know. I think the mix is not right. And the long term counracts are ick.

But from the way other people talk here, we have the best forwards in the East, and the best D in the East, and a great coach.

That the goalie got hurt doesn't mean the GM should be fired under such circumstances.

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03-04-2010, 01:21 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by DeJong View Post
I'm still shocked that neither you guys nor Washington made a hard play for Vokoun. I really think both teams are a solid goaltender away for a lock for a Stanley Cup.
Well, if they're asking for Jeff Carter... **** 'em. That's before you get to the issue of salary cap space.

Washington...absolutely should have looked into it.

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03-04-2010, 01:22 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Emery's career could be over. And a healthy Emery is FAR better then both of Boucher and Leighton.
Why didn't you mention him then?

You just said: "You forgot to mention Michael Leighton and Brian Boucher" like that's who Holmgren selected as his goalies.

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03-04-2010, 01:22 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by DeJong View Post
I'm still shocked that neither you guys nor Washington made a hard play for Vokoun. I really think both teams are a solid goaltender away for a lock for a Stanley Cup.
I don't think Vokoun was as available as people made it seem. I think Florida wanted to hold onto him till next season unless they got overpaid huge. I heard a rumor that Florida wanted Carter for Vokoun straight up.

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03-04-2010, 01:23 PM
  #280
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Did you tell him to **** off? After all, he approved the purchase.
Point taken.

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03-04-2010, 01:25 PM
  #281
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Florida will look to move Vokoun next year on trade deadline day. Unless they deal him at the draft in June.

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03-04-2010, 01:26 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by JCannon18 View Post
I don't think Vokoun was as available as people made it seem. I think Florida wanted to hold onto him till next season unless they got overpaid huge. I heard a rumor that Florida wanted Carter for Vokoun straight up.
If Vokoun was cheap, one of us, Washington or Chicago would have gotten him.

It's still crazy that holmgren looked at Boucher as a confident backup

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03-04-2010, 01:31 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
If Vokoun was cheap, one of us, Washington or Chicago would have gotten him.

It's still crazy that holmgren looked at Boucher as a confident backup
I am honestly fine with one of Boucher or Leighton.
Just not both.
You think the Flyers announcing Emery was done for the season before the trade deadline hurt the chances to get a goalie upgrade? What I mean is, say he doesnt reveal the status of Emery. Is the price for a Ellis, or someone else still just as high for the Flyers? I doubt it.
Once the Flyers announced Emery was finished on Monday or Tuesday they pretty much killed any chance they had to acquire a goalie at a fair price. They were going to have to get bent over for a goalie upgrade and the Flyers had no choice but to stand pat in what they had.
Add this to Holmgren's laundry list on why he should be fired.

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03-04-2010, 01:31 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Why didn't you mention him then?

You just said: "You forgot to mention Michael Leighton and Brian Boucher" like that's who Holmgren selected as his goalies.
Holmer knew he took a gamble on the goalie position and had no backup plan beyond Michael Leighton.

That is all his fault.

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03-04-2010, 01:37 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
I am honestly fine with one of Boucher or Leighton.
Just not both.
You think the Flyers announcing Emery was done for the season before the trade deadline hurt the chances to get a goalie upgrade? What I mean is, say he doesnt reveal the status of Emery. Is the price for a Ellis, or someone else still just as high for the Flyers? I doubt it.
Once the Flyers announced Emery was finished on Monday or Tuesday they pretty much killed any chance they had to acquire a goalie at a fair price. They were going to have to get bent over for a goalie upgrade and the Flyers had no choice but to stand pat in what they had.
Add this to Holmgren's laundry list on why he should be fired.
I am fine with one of them(Leighton probably) but not when next in line is Boucher. At this point I would rather Backlund than Boucher. At least he has something to play for

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03-04-2010, 01:52 PM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
I am honestly fine with one of Boucher or Leighton.
Just not both.
You think the Flyers announcing Emery was done for the season before the trade deadline hurt the chances to get a goalie upgrade? What I mean is, say he doesnt reveal the status of Emery. Is the price for a Ellis, or someone else still just as high for the Flyers? I doubt it.
Once the Flyers announced Emery was finished on Monday or Tuesday they pretty much killed any chance they had to acquire a goalie at a fair price. They were going to have to get bent over for a goalie upgrade and the Flyers had no choice but to stand pat in what they had.
Add this to Holmgren's laundry list on why he should be fired.
This This This. Ive been saying this since he announced Emery's career may be over. Why say that. Its not neccasary to say it at that time. OK hes on LTIR, and had to be placved there for cap reasons. that doesnt mean the season is over for emery, sure it give other teams a reason to screw him, but it would have been easier than coming out and saying emery is gone fr the year and when ur an opposing GM looking at Leighton and Boucher you know damn right well its the deadline and the NEED a better option in net. Im confident if the injury isnt reveled theres a fair deal for Ellis(maybe Hamhuis as well) and the trade is made. If Im Nashville Im looking at Philly with my mouth watering wanting all i can get. The only thing I give him credit for is holding off the advances of the butt rapers out there and walked away.

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03-04-2010, 01:55 PM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Holmer knew he took a gamble on the goalie position and had no backup plan beyond Michael Leighton.

That is all his fault.
Its also his fault he wasnt able to create a backup plan because of the whole Randy jones **** up. Roughly 2 mil in cap space we had would have been nicer if Jones' contract still wasnt there. maybe gives him more room. Add all those NTC/NMC's and lack of picks/prospects, theres no move to make but sit like an ass on his hands and watch the competition get better. no hes gotta hope to god someone drops someone on waivers. Again.

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03-04-2010, 02:04 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by TheDrizzle81 View Post
This This This. Ive been saying this since he announced Emery's career may be over. Why say that. Its not neccasary to say it at that time. OK hes on LTIR, and had to be placved there for cap reasons. that doesnt mean the season is over for emery, sure it give other teams a reason to screw him, but it would have been easier than coming out and saying emery is gone fr the year and when ur an opposing GM looking at Leighton and Boucher you know damn right well its the deadline and the NEED a better option in net. Im confident if the injury isnt reveled theres a fair deal for Ellis(maybe Hamhuis as well) and the trade is made. If Im Nashville Im looking at Philly with my mouth watering wanting all i can get. The only thing I give him credit for is holding off the advances of the butt rapers out there and walked away.
It just boggles my mind how some people can think we could have gotten a fair deal for a goaltender. No way. not after the way the Emery situation was handled.
I bet Holmgren called about both Hamhuis and Ellis. I bet Nashville asked for Parent,Coburn and Giroux at least. Honestly I cant blame them. Any GM would be stupid not to ask for a overpayment.
Roloson probably would have cost Parent.
I already covered why Biron wasnt brought back here at the deadline. Or at least my theory anyway.
I dont know if I want to give Holmgren any credit for not caving in to the high priced demands. Anyone with half a brain would have said no to Nashville's demands.
Then again.....

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03-04-2010, 02:09 PM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDrizzle81 View Post
This This This. Ive been saying this since he announced Emery's career may be over. Why say that. Its not neccasary to say it at that time. OK hes on LTIR, and had to be placved there for cap reasons. that doesnt mean the season is over for emery, sure it give other teams a reason to screw him, but it would have been easier than coming out and saying emery is gone fr the year and when ur an opposing GM looking at Leighton and Boucher you know damn right well its the deadline and the NEED a better option in net. Im confident if the injury isnt reveled theres a fair deal for Ellis(maybe Hamhuis as well) and the trade is made. If Im Nashville Im looking at Philly with my mouth watering wanting all i can get. The only thing I give him credit for is holding off the advances of the butt rapers out there and walked away.
I don't know, I don't think announcing Emery's status to the world made it worse for him. Once Emery was placed on LTIR everyone knew he was done for the season and he couldn't make any moves without placing Emery on LTIR. He was screwed regardless because he had no options, no appealing picks or prospects, and little cap space to work with.

Nashville never wanted to move Ellis and all indications are they never talked about Ellis.

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03-04-2010, 02:17 PM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
It just boggles my mind how some people can think we could have gotten a fair deal for a goaltender. No way. not after the way the Emery situation was handled.
I bet Holmgren called about both Hamhuis and Ellis. I bet Nashville asked for Parent,Coburn and Giroux at least. Honestly I cant blame them. Any GM would be stupid not to ask for a overpayment.
Roloson probably would have cost Parent.
I already covered why Biron wasnt brought back here at the deadline. Or at least my theory anyway.
I dont know if I want to give Holmgren any credit for not caving in to the high priced demands. Anyone with half a brain would have said no to Nashville's demands.
Then again.....

its just pisses me off why he was in that situation to begin with. Its not his decision yesterday its all the stupid **** from the passed that led to what happened I hate. Cant trade anyone cuz they are overpaid AND have NMC's. What can u do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
I don't know, I don't think announcing Emery's status to the world made it worse for him. Once Emery was placed on LTIR everyone knew he was done for the season and he couldn't make any moves without placing Emery on LTIR. He was screwed regardless because he had no options, no appealing picks or prospects, and little cap space to work with.

Nashville never wanted to move Ellis and all indications are they never talked about Ellis.
Ellis was a name thrown out there, just for examples sake.

Well if he had any sence of anything, the Randy Jones thing would have never happened, therefore he wouldnt have NEEDED to put Emery on LTIR until after the deadline, as with the moves of Cote and Syvret + the loss of the Jones hit would be about the same as Emery on LTIR. That way the allusion of Emery coming back is there and hes not as vulnerable. Then after a move is potentially made you place Emery on LTIR and walk away like a champ. Yeah him going on LTIR "pretty much assumes" hes done. Doesnt mean he is. He dug a hole and kept digging deeper and deeper and now hes ****ed.

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03-04-2010, 02:23 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by TheDrizzle81 View Post
This This This. Ive been saying this since he announced Emery's career may be over. Why say that. Its not neccasary to say it at that time. OK hes on LTIR, and had to be placved there for cap reasons. that doesnt mean the season is over for emery, sure it give other teams a reason to screw him, but it would have been easier than coming out and saying emery is gone fr the year and when ur an opposing GM looking at Leighton and Boucher you know damn right well its the deadline and the NEED a better option in net. Im confident if the injury isnt reveled theres a fair deal for Ellis(maybe Hamhuis as well) and the trade is made. If Im Nashville Im looking at Philly with my mouth watering wanting all i can get. The only thing I give him credit for is holding off the advances of the butt rapers out there and walked away.
Well the flip side is they for arguments sake were prepared to deal ellis for a 5th rd pick. Now with emery out they want a 3rd. flyers say no deal. So they were prepared to take a 5th, now they ended up with nothing. They still could have received the value they placed on him if they choose too. So I donít think that it is that big a deal saying he was done.

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03-04-2010, 02:25 PM
  #292
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Randy Jones is also a great example of Holmgrem ruining everything.

Twice.

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03-04-2010, 02:26 PM
  #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
I don't know, I don't think announcing Emery's status to the world made it worse for him. Once Emery was placed on LTIR everyone knew he was done for the season and he couldn't make any moves without placing Emery on LTIR. He was screwed regardless because he had no options, no appealing picks or prospects, and little cap space to work with.

Nashville never wanted to move Ellis and all indications are they never talked about Ellis.
If Homer had Poile on the phone and Ellis's name didn't come up at least five times, then I'm officially on the fire Holmgren bandwagon. It's one thing not to be able to hammer out a deal worth making for a goalie at the deadline, it's another thing not to try.

That is of course, only if Homer didn't try at all to get Ellis.

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03-04-2010, 02:34 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Randy Jones is also a great example of Holmgrem ruining everything.

Twice.
Randy ****ING Jones ruined everything!

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03-04-2010, 02:39 PM
  #295
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did cujo actaully file and hand in his retirement papers? woudl be par for the course to get a star on the down side of his career, lol

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03-04-2010, 02:40 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
Well the flip side is they for arguments sake were prepared to deal ellis for a 5th rd pick. Now with emery out they want a 3rd. flyers say no deal. So they were prepared to take a 5th, now they ended up with nothing. They still could have received the value they placed on him if they choose too. So I donít think that it is that big a deal saying he was done.
Do we even have a 3rd this year? if so thats our highest pick. You cant trade that, IF thats what was going on. If your scenrio is true Emery being annouced done does hurt in the way that we have NO draft picks, and that would hurt our draft even more.

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03-04-2010, 03:11 PM
  #297
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Well if he had any sence of anything, the Randy Jones thing would have never happened, therefore he wouldnt have NEEDED to put Emery on LTIR until after the deadline, as with the moves of Cote and Syvret + the loss of the Jones hit would be about the same as Emery on LTIR. That way the allusion of Emery coming back is there and hes not as vulnerable. Then after a move is potentially made you place Emery on LTIR and walk away like a champ. Yeah him going on LTIR "pretty much assumes" hes done. Doesnt mean he is. He dug a hole and kept digging deeper and deeper and now hes ****ed.
I agree the Jones thing screwed up everything. He doesn't appear to think through the future ramifications of anything he does. He just does whatever makes sense to him in that current moment.

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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
If Homer had Poile on the phone and Ellis's name didn't come up at least five times, then I'm officially on the fire Holmgren bandwagon. It's one thing not to be able to hammer out a deal worth making for a goalie at the deadline, it's another thing not to try.

That is of course, only if Homer didn't try at all to get Ellis.
It would make sense that Ellis' name would come up, but Holmgren had been saying all along he wasn't looking for goaltending and he said yesterday he did not make one phone call for a goalie. The local media had also been saying all along that he wasn't looking for one and were saying Leighton would be our playoff starter. Coatsey was on CSN the day before the deadline talking up Leighton.

He denied having discussions with Florida over Vokoun in Panaccio's deadline article and the article also claims they had no interest in Roloson. There was no mention of Ellis or any other goalie.

All indications are that he legitimately was not interested in a goalie for whatever reason. So I tend to believe there were no discussions about Ellis coupled with the fact that Poile wasn't interested in dealing him and there were no rumors of him shopping him.

Quote:
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Do we even have a 3rd this year? if so thats our highest pick.
It's a conditional pick in the Pronger trade.

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03-04-2010, 04:19 PM
  #298
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Ellis for a 3rd, or 5th, was just an example right? They wouldn't have gotten rid of him for that little would they?


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03-04-2010, 04:36 PM
  #299
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I know it's been said before, but the problem really was/is Boucher, not Emery. Bringing Boosh back as the backup is I guess tolerable if your starter is a 100% reliable/durable 65+ starts a year keeper. Basically Brodeur before last year. But when you're bringing Ray Emery in to be the guy you need to have a backup who's capable of playing if something happens with Emery...be it injury or whatever.

Personally I was hoping at the time that they'd target Yann Danis. I was also fine with bringing Nitty back (but they were worried about his hip, oh the irony, if I were a Pens fan I'd laugh).

But there we were with Boosh, and when Emery went down we were screwed. If you want to play glass-half-full we're incredibly lucky to be where we are; Leighton's play (last night notwithstanding) has been far better than anyone could have expected.

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03-04-2010, 04:39 PM
  #300
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did cujo actaully file and hand in his retirement papers? woudl be par for the course to get a star on the down side of his career, lol
Yes, even held a press conference. I think the Leafs signed him to a 1-day contract or whatever and he retired as a Leaf.

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