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Filppula has a broken wrist. Out 6-10 weeks

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Old
10-30-2009, 01:03 AM
  #26
Jussha
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Although things look bad I'm not too worried yet, I feel this is the type of situation where Datsyuk is now really going to carry this team on his back and show once again he is a worthy candidate for regular season MVP, I believe as long as he is 100% healthy he can do it

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10-30-2009, 03:15 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Jussha View Post
Although things look bad I'm not too worried yet, I feel this is the type of situation where Datsyuk is now really going to carry this team on his back and show once again he is a worthy candidate for regular season MVP, I believe as long as he is 100% healthy he can do it
Yep, sometimes things happen(really ****** things) that give someone an opportunity to do something extraordinary. I think, maybe, just maybe, Eaves can be the guy to get some regular minutes now and show people he can do the things everyone thought he could do when he was younger. All the superstars on this team need to man up and make us remember why we call them superstars. I think we'll be alright. I don't think we should trade unless for a franchise goaltender. I know that won't happen.

What are the chances we trade Toronto for the "Monster" Gustafsson?

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10-30-2009, 03:36 AM
  #28
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What are the chances we trade Toronto for the "Monster" Gustafsson?
About as good a chance as Osgood finishing this season with 20 shutouts.

Toskala is the goalie that will be moved out of Toronto, not Jonas Gustavsson. Plus, Holland and Burke do not make deals with one another. Huge difference of philosophy, for one thing.

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10-30-2009, 07:35 AM
  #29
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Well I let out a torrent. That wasn't pretty.

I'm gonna miss him. He's cute and I like his accent...

I'm not gonna freak out yet. Well, I might, but it will be deserved, like my Howard rant last night...

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10-30-2009, 08:10 AM
  #30
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Funny how everyones wants Frolov and Kovalchuk when we have the worst goalie tandem in the league.

Talk about denial...

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10-30-2009, 08:23 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt714 View Post
Funny how everyones wants Frolov and Kovalchuk when we have the worst goalie tandem in the league.

Talk about denial...
Have you seen Kovy in a kilt?!?! If you had, you would understand....

Ok, I'm just kidding. Sort of.

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Old
10-30-2009, 09:07 AM
  #32
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Too much panic going on here, and way too many absolutes being thrown around ("not a contender" being one) this early in the season. This team will go as their defensive play does, injuries or not. I liked the lines after Flip went down last night, and offensively we will score goals. A trade does nothing, unless you're getting a goalie...and to be honest not many goalies could thrive given Detroit's loose play and penchant for turnovers. As was last year defensive commitment and smart, system hockey will dictate the Wings success.

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Old
10-30-2009, 09:40 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
These are my calculations:

If Filppula stays on LTIR for 6 weeks, then we gain 495k in cap space, assuming our replacements make no more than 850k (Abdelkader's salary). If its 8 weeks, then we gain 615k. If hes out 10 weeks, then we gain 820k in cap sapce.

If Franzen stays on LTIR for 4 months, and our replacement again is no more expensive than our most exepensive "extra" with Abdelkader, we gain 1.9M in cap space. If hes out 5 months, we gain 2.48M in cap space. In hes out 6 months, we gain about 2.9M in cap space.

So, if we look at the optimistic side of Filppula's and Franzen's prognoses, we can add about 2.4M worth on raw salary (already pro-rated), which means a player who had a standard 184 day salary of about 7M at the deadline.
It doesn't work this way. Using the LTIR to replace Flip with a cheaper player doesn't accumulate any Payroll space because the team will still be over the cap even with that cheaper player. Unused LTIR exemption money effectively evaporates day by day, it doesn't accumulate allowing a team to sign a larger pro-rated player at the deadline.

An example: on the last day of training camp a $4m player goes onto season-ending LTIR. On day 1 of the season the team's cap number is $56.8m including that injured player. The team is allowed to add up to $4m in replacement(s) but chooses not to. Finally after not exercising the exception all season, at the trade deadline what's the largest single player contract the team could acquire? It's still $4m.

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10-30-2009, 09:52 AM
  #34
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The sorrow continues.

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Old
10-30-2009, 09:58 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by mouser View Post
It doesn't work this way. Using the LTIR to replace Flip with a cheaper player doesn't accumulate any Payroll space because the team will still be over the cap even with that cheaper player. Unused LTIR exemption money effectively evaporates day by day, it doesn't accumulate allowing a team to sign a larger pro-rated player at the deadline.

An example: on the last day of training camp a $4m player goes onto season-ending LTIR. On day 1 of the season the team's cap number is $56.8m including that injured player. The team is allowed to add up to $4m in replacement(s) but chooses not to. Finally after not exercising the exception all season, at the trade deadline what's the largest single player contract the team could acquire? It's still $4m.
I'm confused so you are saying the biggest contract we can acquire no matter what would be the combined salary of the games Franzen and Filppula missed no matter if we choose to exercise that option now or at the deadline?

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Old
10-30-2009, 10:39 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg Zeppelin View Post
I would kill for Kovalchuk on this team.
He too is injured.

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Old
10-30-2009, 11:13 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Jussha View Post
I'm confused so you are saying the biggest contract we can acquire no matter what would be the combined salary of the games Franzen and Filppula missed no matter if we choose to exercise that option now or at the deadline?
Running with my previous example, if a team were exactly at the cap with a $4m player on LTIR, it doesn't matter when the player goes on LTIR or when they're replaced. The replacement contract size allowances are the same. More examples:

a) Team at $56.8m cap with $4m player on LTIR for season the final day of camp. On day 1 of the season the team can exercise the LTIR exception and add a player with a $4m contract.
b) Team at $56.8M cap with $4m player on LTIR for season the final day of camp. At the trade deadline the team can exercise the LTIR exception and add a player with a $4m contract.
c) Team at $56.8M cap with a $4M player on LTIR for rest of season, injured on January 1st. On January 2nd the team can exercise the LTIR exception and add a player with a $4m contract.
d) Team at $56.8M cap with a $4M player on LTIR for rest of season, injured on January 1st. At the trade deadline the team can exercise the LTIR exception and add a player with a $4m contract.

The LTIR exception is worded to allow teams to replace a LTIR player's contract with an equivalent contract(s). The effect of this is that it doesn't accumulate and pro-rate itself like keeping cap space available by having a Payroll under the Upper Limit does.


A high level look at the Wings LTIR situation:
- Flip's LTIR doesn't do anything beneficial cap-wise. He'll be back long before the season's done. The team is already over the cap without Flip on LTIR and has excess unused LTIR space already.
- Franzen and Lilja [what's the latest on him btw] are both on LTIR with combined contracts of $5.2m.
- If Franzen and Lilja remained out for the rest of the season or at least until the deadline, then at the deadline the Wings would be able to acquire a player(s) with contracts of up to $5.2m minus however much of the LTIR has already been used. A quick perusal of capgeek projections suggest that yields a figure around $3m.

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Old
10-30-2009, 11:19 AM
  #38
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1st Franzen and now Fillpula!!!

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Old
10-30-2009, 11:50 AM
  #39
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i just saw this and i started laughing.... laughing.

Come on, bring it on... whos next...

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10-30-2009, 12:39 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by mouser View Post
Running with my previous example, if a team were exactly at the cap with a $4m player on LTIR, it doesn't matter when the player goes on LTIR or when they're replaced. The replacement contract size allowances are the same. More examples:

a) Team at $56.8m cap with $4m player on LTIR for season the final day of camp. On day 1 of the season the team can exercise the LTIR exception and add a player with a $4m contract.
b) Team at $56.8M cap with $4m player on LTIR for season the final day of camp. At the trade deadline the team can exercise the LTIR exception and add a player with a $4m contract.
c) Team at $56.8M cap with a $4M player on LTIR for rest of season, injured on January 1st. On January 2nd the team can exercise the LTIR exception and add a player with a $4m contract.
d) Team at $56.8M cap with a $4M player on LTIR for rest of season, injured on January 1st. At the trade deadline the team can exercise the LTIR exception and add a player with a $4m contract.

The LTIR exception is worded to allow teams to replace a LTIR player's contract with an equivalent contract(s). The effect of this is that it doesn't accumulate and pro-rate itself like keeping cap space available by having a Payroll under the Upper Limit does.


A high level look at the Wings LTIR situation:
- Flip's LTIR doesn't do anything beneficial cap-wise. He'll be back long before the season's done. The team is already over the cap without Flip on LTIR and has excess unused LTIR space already.
- Franzen and Lilja [what's the latest on him btw] are both on LTIR with combined contracts of $5.2m.
- If Franzen and Lilja remained out for the rest of the season or at least until the deadline, then at the deadline the Wings would be able to acquire a player(s) with contracts of up to $5.2m minus however much of the LTIR has already been used. A quick perusal of capgeek projections suggest that yields a figure around $3m.
So if we go for a player around 3M at deadline, and Franzen comes back after the deadline, we don't have to drop the player to make room for Franzen?

Are you saying until the trade deadline, LTIR is only daily based and not accumulated but after trade deadline it does?

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Old
10-30-2009, 12:55 PM
  #41
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Z and Dats are our offensive dynamos. They have to start scoring like it. Take them off the PK. Even Cleary shouldn't play PK now.

Let Helm and Draper take over as PK centers.

We need the Eurotwins fresh for 5-on-5 and PP duties. This season can slip away quickly if Babcock is not proactive.

No trades. The Wings have to tough it out.

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Old
10-30-2009, 12:58 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VooX View Post
Z and Dats are our offensive dynamos. They have to start scoring like it. Take them off the PK. Even Cleary shouldn't play PK now.

Let Helm and Draper take over as PK centers.

We need the Eurotwins fresh for 5-on-5 and PP duties. This season can slip away quickly if Babcock is not proactive.

No trades. The Wings have to tough it out.
They're not paid close to 7m a year to not play in every situation.

They've done it before, they can do it again.

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Old
10-30-2009, 01:44 PM
  #43
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What's wrong with giving the Twins more I/T where they don't have to be defensively oriented 100% of the shift, Heats?

We know they can play the PK well, but so can Helm and Draper. Helm had the best PK of the playoffs vs. Chicago last season. Let Taz play the PK. And Drapes was our go-to PK center for years. The PK sucks right now anyways, it couldn't get much worse. Take the Twins off the PK.

We need scoring as our goaltending is way too shaky to save our bacon. We need scoring desperately, and not only when down 3 goals after the first period.

Ericsson, Stuart, and Lebda are making TONS of mistakes right now. We can't rely on our D to bail us out. It is up to the offense. And right now, the thrust of the offensive has to be the Twins.

I hate doing what the Pens do, not having the stars play the PK, but right now we need the Twins focused on scoring. With Franzen and Filppula out, Hossa, Hudler, and Samuelsson gone, the Wings are missing roughly 70% of our scoring on last year's team. We can't expect Bertuzzi, Williams, Helm, Leino, and Eaves to replace our lost scoring, it is unrealistic.

Trading is not an option, nor is signing anyone... yet.

Tough choices have to be made by the coaches to build our lines. And IMHO that includes taking Datsyuk and Zetterberg off the PK for now.


Last edited by VooX: 10-30-2009 at 02:00 PM.
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Old
10-30-2009, 01:45 PM
  #44
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I knew it, as soon as they showed the replay I knew it was either a broken wrist or some sort of shoulder injury(hoping for the latter). Well I guess if we can take anything positive out of it we played pretty well the rest of the game without him... sigh.

And lets not get ahead of ourselves here with all this Kovalchuck and Kopitar talk.... yea they would be great additions but I think this team needs to focus on getting a legit goalie and adding a good Defensive D-man, before anything else.

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Old
10-30-2009, 02:20 PM
  #45
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Though loss. But the team has to move on. This can be an opportunity for Eaves, Helm, etc.

This team will not be as successful as previous years. We just have to except that, next year we have plenty off cap room to sort some stuff out.

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Old
10-30-2009, 02:43 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by 8snake View Post
Too much panic going on here, and way too many absolutes being thrown around ("not a contender" being one) this early in the season. This team will go as their defensive play does, injuries or not. I liked the lines after Flip went down last night, and offensively we will score goals. A trade does nothing, unless you're getting a goalie...and to be honest not many goalies could thrive given Detroit's loose play and penchant for turnovers. As was last year defensive commitment and smart, system hockey will dictate the Wings success.

Pffft. I said "top" contender, a favorite, a team that is likely to go deep.

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10-30-2009, 02:53 PM
  #47
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Balls.

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10-30-2009, 03:04 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VooX View Post
What's wrong with giving the Twins more I/T where they don't have to be defensively oriented 100% of the shift, Heats?

We know they can play the PK well, but so can Helm and Draper. Helm had the best PK of the playoffs vs. Chicago last season. Let Taz play the PK. And Drapes was our go-to PK center for years. The PK sucks right now anyways, it couldn't get much worse. Take the Twins off the PK.

We need scoring as our goaltending is way too shaky to save our bacon. We need scoring desperately, and not only when down 3 goals after the first period.

Ericsson, Stuart, and Lebda are making TONS of mistakes right now. We can't rely on our D to bail us out. It is up to the offense. And right now, the thrust of the offensive has to be the Twins.

I hate doing what the Pens do, not having the stars play the PK, but right now we need the Twins focused on scoring. With Franzen and Filppula out, Hossa, Hudler, and Samuelsson gone, the Wings are missing roughly 70% of our scoring on last year's team. We can't expect Bertuzzi, Williams, Helm, Leino, and Eaves to replace our lost scoring, it is unrealistic.

Trading is not an option, nor is signing anyone... yet.

Tough choices have to be made by the coaches to build our lines. And IMHO that includes taking Datsyuk and Zetterberg off the PK for now.
Maybe we could just tell Datsyuk and Z to hang out at the other teams blue line and never cross the red line too.

Seriously, the Wings have shown the past two games they have the offense. Offense isn't the problem it's 1.Goaltending and 2.Competing 60 minutes defensively.


Last edited by Heaton: 10-30-2009 at 03:11 PM.
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10-30-2009, 03:06 PM
  #49
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another problem is that filppula's defensive play is lost.

datsyuk and zetterberg have not been as good as usual defensively. coverage too lax, too many turnovers and failed attempts to clear the puck, PKing not as good as usual.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VooX View Post
What's wrong with giving the Twins more I/T where they don't have to be defensively oriented 100% of the shift, Heats?

We know they can play the PK well, but so can Helm and Draper. Helm had the best PK of the playoffs vs. Chicago last season. Let Taz play the PK. And Drapes was our go-to PK center for years. The PK sucks right now anyways, it couldn't get much worse. Take the Twins off the PK.

We need scoring as our goaltending is way too shaky to save our bacon. We need scoring desperately, and not only when down 3 goals after the first period.

Ericsson, Stuart, and Lebda are making TONS of mistakes right now. We can't rely on our D to bail us out. It is up to the offense. And right now, the thrust of the offensive has to be the Twins.

I hate doing what the Pens do, not having the stars play the PK, but right now we need the Twins focused on scoring. With Franzen and Filppula out, Hossa, Hudler, and Samuelsson gone, the Wings are missing roughly 70% of our scoring on last year's team. We can't expect Bertuzzi, Williams, Helm, Leino, and Eaves to replace our lost scoring, it is unrealistic.

Trading is not an option, nor is signing anyone... yet.

Tough choices have to be made by the coaches to build our lines. And IMHO that includes taking Datsyuk and Zetterberg off the PK for now.
datsyuk and zetterberg are playing more on PP and less on PK than last season.

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Old
10-30-2009, 04:56 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by last_sd View Post
So if we go for a player around 3M at deadline, and Franzen comes back after the deadline, we don't have to drop the player to make room for Franzen?

Are you saying until the trade deadline, LTIR is only daily based and not accumulated but after trade deadline it does?
You still have to drop that player [or others] to make room for Franzen to return. I was trying to keep my post simple on the amount of LTIR space available to exercise. Sorry for the confusion.

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