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Old
01-05-2010, 10:01 PM
  #76
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I agree, Fowler played an awesome game tonight! That finish gave me goosebumps! What an amazing game... I think this win deserves some of these guys-



Way to go team USA!!!

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01-06-2010, 09:59 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
Cam Fowler played an AMAZING game for the US tonight. Probably the most unheralded performance on the entire roster. He probably blocked 15 shots tonight and always got the puck deep and used the glass in the defensive zone effectively.

Taylor Hall tried to do too much by himself but that's to be expected for a kid that has never met a shot he didn't like. That can be fixed.
The more I see Hall, I keep thinking Staal 2.0. He's a stronger skater and has nicer hands, but I'd say they're very comparable in the juniors. Both more noted goal scorers, with underrated playmaking abilities. Decent back checkers (But i'd give the edge to an 18 year old Staal), big but not filled out yet, not aware of his size, can crash the net, good in tight spaces. Both have the "I can do it all" syndrome that we're all too familiar with.

I love his versatility though. If we get him, I'd expect 50 points out of him on our top line, which may sound outrageous, but he's a strong enough playmaker now to get Staal to a 45 goal pace next season. I mean, 12-6-6-12 for a draft eligible player on a team like Canada is outrageous. And it's not like he disappeared when it mattered either.

I wish Seguin has their though, especially over Taylor Hall's bag boys who combined for 2 goals, 0 assists. I'd think he would have explosive, considering how well Fowler, Hall, Tarasenko and Granlund did. I'd prefer Hall, but I'd be just as ecstatic over Fowler, and I doubt I'll lose sleep over Seguin (Unless we pick him 1st overall, that might upset me).

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01-07-2010, 12:08 PM
  #78
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I know a couple Canes fans personally and it sounds from them and you guys that if you were to receive the #1 pick, you would more than likely go with Hall. But my friend also told me you needed defense. Would you select Fowler with #1 or would you only select Fowler if you received #2 or #3 pick??

Btw, I came down last year for the Jackets game in Raleigh . . . . Best Ive ever been treated on the road. And I have been to 7 NHL cities. Thanks for the good times. And I wish Jeff Hamilton was still with you guys, I always hoped to sign him here so I could watch. Hes from Dayton (only an hour away), and is my cousin. Vagrant, I saw in another thread where you had his jersey lol

Anyway, best of luck to you guys. Looks like us two will be duking it out for the #1 pick


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01-07-2010, 01:25 PM
  #79
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we'd take a forward first, but if we end up third i think ewd take fowler, as he looks like he could play d for us right now and we wouldnt have to wait on him two years just to make it to us. we dont develop prospects well overall, especially not d.

overall, i think if we are no 1 its hall. i know we probably love seguin, and teams are built down the middle so it would actually make sense, but i think jr will build around staal and hall has two things going for him. he would be a very nice winger for staal, he can create on his own and staal could clean up his garbage. secondly, he is a pure goal scorer, and we dont have that. at all. ruutu is our closest thing to a "pure" goal scorer and he is lucky to hit 30. i think unfortunately jr thinks sutter is a no 2 center, and seguin would be "redundant" in his eyes. at this point, i think they are pretty close to equal long term, and i definitely believe you build down the middle. yzerman/feds, sakic forsberg, crosby/malkin/staal. even us with francis/brindy/staal at different times. seguin if he is legit may be the smarter choice, but i think hall will complement what we have now better.

hall seems similar to boychuk to me. i dont know if i think he is as good as some of the other recent no 1's. because of this for the moment im ok with even a top 3 pick - though a top two would be sexier.

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01-07-2010, 02:45 PM
  #80
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I think we're at that time of year where scouts start second guessing their concensus first overall pick and it opens the door for debate with the other guys. Fowler and Seguin are both going to be really strong players at the next level. Seguin vs. Hall reminds me a bit of Duchene vs. Tavares. One is a player that has been watched for quite a while as the next big elite prospect and the other is a player that emerged from relative obscurity. Tavares, much like Hall, is the pure goal scorer with a questionable all around game and Seguin is the total offensive package the way Duchene was advertised. Obviously there are differences. I compare Hall to a more selfish with the puck version of Paul Kariya. Some have said Pavel Bure, but I will never compare a player to Pavel Bure. Hall has elite speed and elite instincts. On the powerplay, he plays like he's watching from the TV angle with the way he moves and avoids checkers. He still has to learn to distribute the puck as he can be very single minded with the puck on his tape. He'll have to diversify and be more well rounded in the NHL but all the skills are there. Especially while watching him with the man advantage, you can see how easily he would translate to an NHL offense even right now. He rarely takes the obvious play that would result in a pressured point for a defenseman or a pin against the boards for a forward down low. He just seems to instinctively know when he shouldn't go certain places. That trait immensely impressed me.

I think he'll end up going 1st overall regardless of who picks there. I think it will be just like Tavares. No matter how much pomp and circumstance will arise from now until the pick is taken, it's going to be Taylor Hall regardless. The real drama starts at 2nd overall. The Hedman-Duchene scenario from last year may play out again. I fully feel that Duchene was the better player, but the Lightning needed defense first and foremost. Depending on who ends up in 2nd, it could very well work out that way again. I feel that there is only one player that would make sense to go 1st overall. I feel there are two players that could make sense going 2nd overall. Cam Fowler did a lot to improve his stock and exposure at the WJC, but Seguin will not be penalized for not making the club.

Fowler reminds me a bit of Brian Rafalski. He's listed at 6-1 and 190 in a lot of places, but he looks more like 6-0 and 180 to me. With that said he has a lot of stick skills and heart. He's not an overly physical defender but he's nearly unbeatable with his stick and his body positioning is quite sound already. I watched him extensively on the kill in the tournament and his stick activity was a really attractive aspect of his defensive game. He was always shutting down lanes and not going into panic mode and chasing the puck around. If the goaltender had a clear sight line, he would just let the shot get through for a stoppage. That was impressive to me from a poise standpoint. A lot of young defenders inadvertently screen their own goalie by virtue of trying to block harmless shots and thereby make the chance twice as dangerous. He didn't have that problem. Even when things would inevitably go wrong, he was there to scoop up the puck, calmly move it up the boards and out of the zone quickly and efficiently. I can't remember a single clear he made in the tournament that didn't get out. I can't remember but one mistake where he didn't get the puck deep enough and that was in the Sweden game where he gave up a breakaway but got back and took a penalty to prevent a goal. Offensively, he seems more content to use his wrist shot from the point than taking a big slapper. That leads me to think that it's not likely he'll ever be a big goal scoring threat but his calm under pressure and the precision with which he passes should make him invaluable on the powerplay. I really see a kid that can play both ends of the ice in Fowler. His panic threshold is tremendous and he doesn't get the yips when the pressure goes up in big games.

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01-07-2010, 07:10 PM
  #81
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The thing I liked best about Hall from watching him in the WJC's was his hockey instinct. He has great ice vision, and some real creativity in his skating and stick handling. I guess it's the "cool" thing now to bash the guy who has been the consensus #1 in this draft since he was 16, but I saw enough watching him to be convinced that he is the real deal.

Fowler REALLY impressed me as well. I agree that he looked like he could be one of those rare d-men who might make the jump to the NHL right away.

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01-08-2010, 12:57 AM
  #82
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The race for Hall/Seguin/Fowler:

Code:
TEAM		GP	W	L	OT	PT
Carolina 	42	11	24	7	29
Edmonton 	44	16	23	5	37
Toronto 	44	15	20	9	39
Columbus 	45	16	20	9	41
Florida 	44	17	20	7	41
St. Louis 	43	17	19	7	41

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01-08-2010, 01:23 AM
  #83
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I don't like how the gap is closing now. As long as we stay top 3 though, I'm fine.

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01-08-2010, 09:25 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by MarkyMarkNC View Post
I guess it's the "cool" thing now to bash the guy
Wait, I must've missed something...where's this Taylor Hall bashing of which you speak?

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01-08-2010, 11:18 AM
  #85
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Hall was basically invisible in the final game against the US (except for his goal but that was more due to poor goalie stick positioning than anything). He was also pretty unspectacular in the earlier game against the US. The only time I was impressed was in the Canadian blowout wins where he was going around the other team like they were pylons. Not saying he isn't an amazing player, but against tougher competition it worries me that he can be shut down like that.

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01-08-2010, 11:31 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stivwhaler View Post
Hall was basically invisible in the final game against the US (except for his goal but that was more due to poor goalie stick positioning than anything). He was also pretty unspectacular in the earlier game against the US. The only time I was impressed was in the Canadian blowout wins where he was going around the other team like they were pylons. Not saying he isn't an amazing player, but against tougher competition it worries me that he can be shut down like that.
During the first two periods he was trying to do it all when the team around him couldn't manage a cycle for 30 seconds. He started up a lot of rushes nut naturally had a fair bit of turnovers. He played fine considering the poor play around him.

Not to mention he was an important part of the "comeback" as he was on a line with Ebs and Kadri. His strong puck possession and puck retrieval skills allowed that last 10 minutes stampede to continue, although he needs to learn when to shoot and when to deke. With 5 minutes left dangling through the opposition when you have a shooting lane doesn't do anyone any good.

Oh and I keep hearing Hall is a pure goal scorer and I strongly disagree. Sure he's a guy that can likely put up 45 goals but I believe similar to Staal here, his role for Windsor is that of a goalscorer. I mean, Nemisz and Henrique both lack strong finish, and are relatively slow and lack high end hands and vision to make up for it, so Hall is naturally the goal scorer there. He showed off his playmaking ability at the juniors. He's very underrated, and if he has a capable linemates who can get to open ice, he never hesitates to pass. Although near the end he was trying to pot a couple, that's simply a matter of "Well, if they can't do it I guess I have too". Kadri was ripped apart for his awful one timers and shot as he had so many of them, most of them sent to him by Hall.

No doubt he is a goal scorer, but I expect him to me more of a playmaker when playing with Staal, similar to Parise. I wouldn't consider Parise a pure goal scorer but if many of you would then I guess all of this was for nothing an we're on the same page. When I hear the word "pure" I think, OV, Kovie, Vanek, and Heatley who are all shoot first, pass later kind of guys.


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01-08-2010, 07:20 PM
  #87
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Everyone is suddenly an expert on Hall after watching him in one tournament, it seems. And naturally, since he is a #1 overall prospect, he is going to have the spotlight on him and every part of his game dissected. I admit he struggled at times in the WJC but if you didn't see the many glimpses of his exceptional talent, there's no much anyone can do to make you see it.

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01-08-2010, 07:31 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Erik Stall View Post
Everyone is suddenly an expert on Hall after watching him in one tournament, it seems. And naturally, since he is a #1 overall prospect, he is going to have the spotlight on him and every part of his game dissected. I admit he struggled at times in the WJC but if you didn't see the many glimpses of his exceptional talent, there's no much anyone can do to make you see it.
Not to mention that I see a lot of people (wrongly) criticizing his playmaking ability. You hate to say it but with how Kadri played it's no shock that people are targeting it since Canada didn't take the gold. I guarantee that if Kadri was a prospect for say Nashville, Florida, Atlanta, Phoenix or us he would be getting far more heat then he is even now. He (Kadri) was flat out awful throughout the tournament IMO and other then being fast he offered nothing. I honestly have to think that Seguin would have had more to offer team Canada then Kadri, yet alone some ineffective wastes of roster space like Nesmiz.

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01-08-2010, 08:26 PM
  #89
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I wouldn't say that many are criticizing his playmaking as much as they are questioning his desire to do so. I would consider myself in that camp that wonders if that team play aspect is simply a product of youthful immaturity and the pressure of a draft year or if it's a bigger problem. He's a bit of a black hole when it comes to the puck going in and not coming back out. However, from the sheer mechanics of passing and his vision it's obvious that so inclined he has the ability to be a pretty strong distributor.... it's just that he simply hasn't displayed the willingness thus far to be the team player that I would like for him to be.

His Windsor teammates understand that when they give him the puck the best thing to do is get in position for the inevitable rebound or celebration of a goal scored. When you have an elite shot like he does, coaches are probably telling you from midget hockey all the way up to shoot the puck because it's never the wrong play. But eventually Hall will be on a roster, be it our roster or another roster, where he is not the only elite shooter on the ice. How he will adjust to that is going to be a key aspect of his development. There are some guys who want to do it all or they want to do nothing at all. Guys that don't enjoy watching other people carry the puck and don't know how to put themselves in position to help a teammate up the ice. Pavel Brendl was like that. When the puck was on his tape, he didn't *look* lazy. You had to watch him when somebody else was working in the offensive zone to really appreciate how useless he was to the cause unless he had the puck. Playing offense without the puck is just as important if not more so than playing with it. That is going to be the adjustment for Hall.

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01-08-2010, 08:59 PM
  #90
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i think hes a great passer, he is also a pure finisher though from what ive seen - and persistent as hell which is a huge part of becoming a "pure" goal scorer. i think on a line with staal he could play both roles, but he to me from what ive seen is a better shooter to finish than seguin which would be a desperately wanted skill on this team. we havent had that capable a shooter since oneill really. he could also set up staal quite a bit. i think the way he is tenacious would also be a huge asset to us.

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01-08-2010, 09:01 PM
  #91
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I honestly just think the pressure is getting to him and he is gripping his stick a little too tightly, trying to do too much by himself. The criticism about him being selfish and unwilling to pass the pack at times seems to have really came out this WJC. Guerzy, an OHL season ticket holder, commented very positively on his passing ability and willingness to be a playmaker earlier this season, IIRC. I've read similar things from other posters here who regularly watch OHL games. He will probably always be a shoot first type of guy, similar to Staal, but I wouldn't underrate his playmaking ability and willingness to pass, just like I wouldn't Staal's. Hall is an 18 year old kid with tremendous talent and one so-so WJC tourney isn't going to make me question his ability and team play.

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01-08-2010, 09:15 PM
  #92
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i watched the early games that he lit up, some of those passes were sick - and he wasnt a puck hog. he dictated play, but he wasnt laying off good passes to keep the puck - he was just patient. he made one pass out of the corner that was gorgeous, threaded the needle onto the tape of a cutter to the net who had a checker on him - while he himself was being chased around. in those games he was the most dominant player on the ice. in the others he didnt have the space and was getting run, but i think he is just a hair off being able to do those things in the pros. he can skate, he sees the rink, hes a fighter for the puck, he can shoot. good enough for me. i need to see more plymouth games, i just havent seen enough of seguin.

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01-08-2010, 09:18 PM
  #93
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When Hall was in town with Windsor a few weeks back you'd swear the guy didnt like to shoot, he passed that much. I couldn't believe it. I recall just one instance where he took a good, clean shot and it was from a rebound in close quarters, other than that it was all playmaking the entire night. He'd rush the puck by himself, but he made the pass because that is what the play called for. He dictated and read the play extremely well. It just seemed to work and be the right call for the flow of the game, positioning and strategy of each team. I think it boils down to him reading the game and his hockey sense kicking in. I was surprised because like many I was led to believe he was a 'shoot-first' winger, but after watching him live, seeing him afterwards in games, during the WJC and also getting in contact with some Windsor fans, it seems evident Hall has the mind and hockey sense and he simply picks his spots based on what he see's, how the game is being played strategy wise, positioning, etc. He picks his spots. I said after that game when I watched him I had no doubts Hall carries that team and his numbers arent based on being on a top team, he simply makes it happen. That showed when Nemisz and Henrique were really not all that impressive in the WJC, but Hall was. Hall carries Hall and Hall puts up points mainly because of Hall, not padded stats from being on a good Windsor team.

During games in the World Juniors I noticed the same thing, Hall being in 'Playmaking mode' and in the next game or shift he was in 'Carry the puck, dangle, shoot' mode, then there were games where it was a mix of both. I saw the exact same thing with Eberle throughout the tournament. They did so because there wasn't another player on the team with their all around skillset for the game. It was obvious they were above the rest, not throwing stones at the other kids on team Canada, but it showed. They were the elite talent and made the call because they could do it best and they knew it. Hard to make a pass when the play isnt there or your linemate(s) is a step or two behind you because you think the game a couple or few notches better than your linemate(s). Same goes for Staal here in Carolina. We see him make nice passes and plays in All-Star games, with team Canada at World Championships, etc.. heck, I witnessed Staal dangle with great, great hands in Junior for 3 years from the age of 15 until he left for Carolina and it seems its been so damn long since he has showed his true hands and playmaking ability that it kills me as to why. In Carolina I believe Staal feels he has to do it all because... who the hell else will? I think we saw that from both Eberle and Hall in the Gold Medal game and at times prior. They knew they had to be 'the guy', as a fan I even got that vibe and feeling. When they werent on the ice, I was sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for one or both to jump over the boards. It's been some time since I have felt like that when watching Canada at the World Juniors.

I don't think Hall cares whether he's the guy shooting or whether he's the guy dishing it off. It boils down to what his hockey sense feels is best for that current time, game, etc. There is obviously times when he keeps the puck to himself or hangs onto it to long, but chances are in that instance there isn't an open man or he simply doesnt see fit to make the pass. I personally like that aspect of a players game with Hall's skillset because there is nothing that gets to me more than a dumb, bone-headed pass to either ones skates or simply to nobody resulting in a turnover. When he feels he should go to the net, make a rush, carry the puck, shoot etc.. he does so. When he feels the pass is there, the play is there to be made, etc, he makes it. I believe whether he is playing Junior or in the NHL, he'll carry over his game rather smoothly because he does both shooting and playmaking so well. I have no doubt he's elite in both shooting and passing the puck. It's obvious. For me he just picks his spots and it all comes down to him reading and dictating the play and using his hockey sense, patience and vision for what is best for the situation he is in or about to be in. It's as if he asks himself 'Pass or shoot?' on the fly because he 1. Has the talent to do so and 2. Possesses the patience, vision and hockey sense, to do so. I'd say 8 out of 10 times he makes the right call, whether to pass or shoot, the other 2 times.. it is what it is and it happens to any great player whether you're Ovechkin shooting or Backstrom passing.


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01-08-2010, 09:21 PM
  #94
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I wouldn't say that many are criticizing his playmaking as much as they are questioning his desire to do so. I would consider myself in that camp that wonders if that team play aspect is simply a product of youthful immaturity and the pressure of a draft year or if it's a bigger problem. He's a bit of a black hole when it comes to the puck going in and not coming back out. However, from the sheer mechanics of passing and his vision it's obvious that so inclined he has the ability to be a pretty strong distributor.... it's just that he simply hasn't displayed the willingness thus far to be the team player that I would like for him to be.

His Windsor teammates understand that when they give him the puck the best thing to do is get in position for the inevitable rebound or celebration of a goal scored. When you have an elite shot like he does, coaches are probably telling you from midget hockey all the way up to shoot the puck because it's never the wrong play. But eventually Hall will be on a roster, be it our roster or another roster, where he is not the only elite shooter on the ice. How he will adjust to that is going to be a key aspect of his development. There are some guys who want to do it all or they want to do nothing at all. Guys that don't enjoy watching other people carry the puck and don't know how to put themselves in position to help a teammate up the ice. Pavel Brendl was like that. When the puck was on his tape, he didn't *look* lazy. You had to watch him when somebody else was working in the offensive zone to really appreciate how useless he was to the cause unless he had the puck. Playing offense without the puck is just as important if not more so than playing with it. That is going to be the adjustment for Hall.
That's where my criticism of Kadri comes into it though. It's not like Hall wasn't TRYING to pass early on in the tournament. And yes, I well know that passing against Switzerland and Slovakia is far different then passing against the US where you have solid defensemen on you and shutting down lanes in a hurry. But even in those early games Hall was setting up brilliant chance after brilliant chance and Kadri was just fanning on it every time. You hate to say it but there comes a point where Hall says "ok, it's just me and Eberle out there, I have to take this into my own hands" and that's the way he played both US games. There's no question that it's going to be an adjustment for Hall, but it just seems to me that it won't be as big of one as people are thinking when the Canes have a top notch talent in Staal that they can put at center for him. I know nothing is certain there yet and I'm probably getting ahead of myself just saying that.

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01-08-2010, 09:26 PM
  #95
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Next few games...

- against Senators. They're without Spezza, Alfredsson and Michalek.
- against Maple Leafs. Worst PK in NHL history.
- against Red Wings.
- two games against Thrashers and one with Bolts.

I'm started to worried for us. We need another 14 game streak. Edmonton continues to sux so much. They are hopeless.

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01-08-2010, 09:29 PM
  #96
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Next few games...

- against Senators. They're without Spezza, Alfredsson and Michalek.
- against Maple Leafs. Worst PK in NHL history.
- against Red Wings.
- two games against Thrashers and one with Bolts.

I'm started to worried for us. We need another 14 game streak. Edmonton continues to sux so much. They are hopeless.
Ward needs to start blowing shutouts in the first minute, not the last minute. Aaron Ward and Nic Wallin should be double shifted for the next few games.

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01-08-2010, 09:32 PM
  #97
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Ward needs to start blowing shutouts in the first minute, not the last minute. Aaron Ward and Nic Wallin should be double shifted for the next few games.
You forgot Cole and Larose. We want #1 - we need Larose and Cole.

I just hope we don't start to play good and effective in this second half of the season, win 25 games and take #8-13 pick... who end ala Knyazev/ Paradis/ Heerema.

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01-08-2010, 09:35 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caniacho View Post
You forgot Cole and Larose. We want #1 - we need Larose and Cole.

I just hope we don't start to play good and effective in this second half of the season, win 25 games and take #8-13 pick... who end ala Knyazev/ Paradis/ Heerema.
True. Although I can't say I'm complaining about Brind'Amour seeing more ice time, allowing him to keep the seat warm in the penalty box. Sadly, this damn PK is looking too good right now.

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Old
01-11-2010, 11:44 AM
  #99
faulkingdynamic
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http://centralscouting.nhl.com/

Central Scouting Midterm Rankings are out.......for whatever they are worth

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Old
01-11-2010, 12:01 PM
  #100
Sasha Cares
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Rank Name Team League Height Weight Position
1 HALL, TAYLOR WINDSOR OHL 6' 0.75" 186 LW
2 SEGUIN, TYLER PLYMOUTH OHL 6' 0.75" 180 C
3 FOWLER, CAM WINDSOR OHL 6' 2" 195 D
4 CONNOLLY, BRETT PRINCE GEORGE WHL 6' 2" 181 RW
5 SHEAHAN, RILEY U OF NOTRE DAME CCHA 6' 1.5" 202 C
6 GUDBRANSON, ERIK KINGSTON OHL 6' 3.75" 195 D
7 BURMISTROV, ALEXANDER BARRIE OHL 5' 11.5" 162 C
8 GORMLEY, BRANDON MONCTON QMJHL 6' 2" 187 D
9 PYSYK, MARK EDMONTON WHL 6' 1" 179 D
10 MCFARLAND, JOHN SUDBURY OHL 6' 0" 200 C
11 FORBORT, DEREK USA U-18 USDP 6' 4.5" 198 D
12 BJUGSTAD, NICK BLAINE HIGH-MN 6' 3.75" 188 C
13 ETEM, EMERSON MEDICINE HAT WHL 5' 11.75" 190 RW
14 NIEDERREITER, NINO PORTLAND WHL 6' 1" 205 RW
15 KABANOV, KIRILL MONCTON QMJHL 6' 2" 173 LW
16 JOHANSEN, RYAN PORTLAND WHL 6' 2.25" 194 C
17 NELSON, BROCK WARROAD HIGH-MN 6' 2.5" 205 C
18 HAYES, KEVIN NOBLES HIGH-MA 6' 2.25" 201 RW
19 COYLE, CHARLIE SOUTH SHORE EJHL 6' 1.5" 202 C,RW
20 MERRILL, JONATHON USA U-18 USDP 6' 3.25" 198 D
21 PITLICK, TYLER MINNESOTA STATE WCHA 6' 1.5" 194 C
22 TOFFOLI, TYLER OTTAWA OHL 6' 0" 183 C
23 GALIEV, STANISLAV SAINT JOHN QMJHL 6' 0.5" 177 RW
24 MARTINDALE, RYAN OTTAWA OHL 6' 3" 195 C
25 WATSON, AUSTIN PETERBOROUGH OHL 6' 3" 180 RW
26 TELEGIN, IVAN SAGINAW OHL 6' 2.25" 194 RW
27 MCILRATH, DYLAN MOOSE JAW WHL 6' 3.25" 210 D
28 JOHNS, STEPHEN USA U-18 USDP 6' 3.25" 215 D
29 HOWDEN, QUINTON MOOSE JAW WHL 6' 0.75" 183 C
30 ARNOLD, BILLY USA U-18 USDP 5' 11.5" 218 C

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