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All-Time Draft #12, Part V

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Old
11-04-2009, 02:07 PM
  #351
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With our 22nd selection in the 12th All-time Draft, the Nova Scotia Voyageurs are pleased to select their assistant coach, a level headed guy who will compliment the fiery Jack Adams. He was a damn good player, and is one of, if the the best, coach in AHL history, from Kingston, Ontario...

Bun Cook

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Originally Posted by Legends of Hockey
Bun coached the Providence Reds from 1937-38 until 1942-43, winning the AHL's Eastern Division title three times and the Calder Cup twice (1938 and 1940). He then joined the Cleveland Barons between 1943-44 and 1955-56, coaching the team to seven divisional titles and five Calder Cup championships.
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Originally Posted by The Story of the Calder Cup
Not only have great players won the Calder Cup, but outstanding coaches have also hoisted the AHL's championship trophy. Hall of Famer Fred “Bun” Cook holds the distinction of winning seven Calder Cups in his career; no other AHL head coach has ever won more than three.
"Bun Cook could teach you things you didn't know existed. He never got upset about anything either. He was always calm, cool and collected and kept his players like that." - Fred Glover, former NHL coach

636-391-121 career regular season record, numerous coach of the year awards. An ATD-worthy coach, who will look great next to Adams.

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11-04-2009, 02:45 PM
  #352
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raleh and I are both big Staal fans. We had him pegged for our 13th forward. A big, poised, high-character, well-rounded centre who can score goals isn't easy to come by in Round 21 or 22.

Is he better than Getzlaf? Depends on what you're looking for. Staal was the better player early on, and that's not a surprise. A very, very mature player. Getzlaf's been better the last couple years. (Note: Getzlaf is viewed as a lock for Canada at the Olys. Staal's one of the bubble guys). If you want a physical, tough playmaking centre, go with Getzlaf. If you want a two-way pivot who can score goals, pick Staal.

Staal's experience on the wing is probably minimal to non-existent. His game could translate well to wing, but people thought the same thing about Modano and Sundin. Both experimented at the wing position. And there's a reason both stayed at centre. If he has played on the wing, it's probably been on the PP or in late-game, down-by-a-goal situations.

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11-04-2009, 02:59 PM
  #353
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The Victoria Cougars select G Bouse Hutton

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Notable Achievements:
-Named to the Hockey Hall Of Fame in 1962, He was 9-1-1 with a 2.09 GAA lifetime in Stanley Cup games. Only man in history to win the Stanley Cup, Canadian football and lacrosse titles in the same year 1904; Led to CAHL in wins (1902-1903). Career record of 35-9-3; posted an unbeaten 7-0-1 season in leading Ottawa to the 1900-1901 Canadian Amateur Hockey league championship; also backstopped Ottawa to the Canadian Intermediate title in 1898-1999.
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Originally posted by Without Fear:
"Numbers can lie, but in Bouse Hutton's case, they support the revelation that he was the game of hockey's first great goaltending sensation. Performing at a time when hockey's laws allowed the netminder minimal latitude in thwarting attackers-sprawling on the ice and covering the puck were punishable offenses-and the only equipment advantage provided was a pair of thin cricket pads. Hutton's numbers offer evidence of his athleticism. The gloves he wore were the same size as his teammate's, his stick not much wider than theirs, yet Hutton posted a pair of shutouts in Stanley Cup play at a time when double-digit scores were normal. His goals against average of 2.62 would not look out of place amid today's oversized goaltenders and his 9-1-1 record and 2.09 GAA in Stanley Cup games displays proof of Bouse Hutton's value as a money goaltender.
Quote:
Originally posted by Without Fear:
Bouse Hutton was an all-around athlete who reached the highest level of competion in three sports, he stood in front of the goal by choice and displayed an unparalleled athleticism, earning him the reputation as the first of the truly outstanding goaltenders. Hutton would win the Stanley Cup twice with the famous Ottawa Silver Seven. It could be said that Hutton was the Bernie Parent of his era.
Quote:
Originally posted by Ultimate Hockey:
He is perhaps best known as the "go-to" goalie of Ottawa's Silver Seven championship teams of 1903 and 1904. He was possibly the first acrobatic goalie, as he eschewed the rigid stand-up style so common in his day. It's said he sometimes resembled a jumping jack in net when the going was hot, A true entertainer. Tommy Gorman was quoted as saying 'Hutton was the best goalie that he ever saw, choosing him over the like of Georges Vezina,Clint Benedict,Hugh Lehman, and Charlie Gardiner.


Last edited by JFA87-66-99: 11-04-2009 at 04:58 PM.
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Old
11-04-2009, 03:07 PM
  #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzeznik View Post
With our 22nd selection in the 12th All-time Draft, the Nova Scotia Voyageurs are pleased to select their assistant coach, a level headed guy who will compliment the fiery Jack Adams. He was a damn good player, and is one of, if the the best, coach in AHL history, from Kingston, Ontario...

Bun Cook





"Bun Cook could teach you things you didn't know existed. He never got upset about anything either. He was always calm, cool and collected and kept his players like that." - Fred Glover, former NHL coach

636-391-121 career regular season record, numerous coach of the year awards. An ATD-worthy coach, who will look great next to Adams.

Wasn't Bun Cook taken already?

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11-04-2009, 03:08 PM
  #355
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The player was, but the coach wasn't.

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Old
11-04-2009, 03:37 PM
  #356
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Will make up a pick tonight. Skip me.

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11-04-2009, 04:03 PM
  #357
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The Trail Smoke Eaters are proud to select a native sun as our extra forward. "Chicken Parm" Ray Ferraro

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Old
11-04-2009, 04:11 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Staal is a better player. He's not a perfect comparison because he's a center, but I have no doubt he is a more valuable player. He's scored the same goals per game as Nash in his career (ignoring their seasons as 18 year olds right out of the draft) and he's a much better playmaker. Nash was a big defensive liability earlier on and has improved a lot. Staal was never that bad. Both can play a very robust forechecking style if they want to. The big thing, too, is that Staal will get this done for 82 games per season (he just had his first real injury at age 24) and Nash is not a guarantee. Then there is the two long playoff runs with 43 points and the cup. Per-game or total value, I'd take Staal.

Gagne is better than both of them. His PK abilities, his even strength defensive awareness, and his ability to score without the PP, are huge assets for a fourth line. Did you read what overpass posted when he drafted him? The guy has had a massive impact on his team's goal differential. I used to think the guy was overrated and didn't even know why he made Team Canada in 2002, but he is underrated if anything. I think that, per game, he's as valuable a player as Nash or Staal, but he's got a good 3-4 years experience on them.
It's not a perfect comparison, but I don't think Staal is all that much better, if any. Staal isn't the goalscorer Nash is, and his assists aren't all that much better. Staal's assist edge is a little better than Nash's goal edge, but Staal has also had the luxury of some good players to receive the puck from, and the only season Nash has had that, he put up very good numbers. Nash also led the league in goals as a sophomore, which can't be ignored.

I'd also have a very hard time taking Staal over Getzlaf, yet, I'd also have a tough time taking Getzlaf over Nash. I guess it depends on you want, and I wanted the best goalscorer of the bunch


As for Gagne, yes I read it, I just disagreed with parts of it, or basically the way overpass painted Nash as a guy who lived off the pp quite a bit. Gagne's led the league in ES goals, but Nash also has a top-5 and two top-10 finishes in that same department. Gagne's also done it while typically riding shotgun with a very talented centerman(in his two biggest goalscoring years, Forsberg was with him for the most part, as was JR and Richards the only other times he's hit 30). He does have a better defensive track record, but as stated, I have no reason not to believe Nash's defensive play won't be good, especially as Hitch is again his coach.

I won't deny that Gagne is underrated, but his offensive track record is fairly meh at best(you can talk about ES points and goal differential all you want, the fact is Gagne's never done much without a great player on his line) and his defensive track record, while good, is hardly outstanding, either. On the Nash front, I find his defensive play, outstanding leadership, and great goalscoring abilities to be great qualities for any fourth line.

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11-04-2009, 04:21 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
The player was, but the coach wasn't.
Sorry I didn't realize it was Bun Cook as a coach

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Old
11-04-2009, 04:30 PM
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFA87-66-99 View Post



The Victoria Cougars select G Bouse Hutton
The BGAs just keep dropping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
It's not a perfect comparison, but I don't think Staal is all that much better, if any. Staal isn't the goalscorer Nash is, and his assists aren't all that much better. Staal's assist edge is a little better than Nash's goal edge, but Staal has also had the luxury of some good players to receive the puck from, and the only season Nash has had that, he put up very good numbers. Nash also led the league in goals as a sophomore, which can't be ignored.
The linemate issue is one that can be discussed further. But Staal's always been the best player on his line and has made other players better.

Staal's actually scoring just as many GPG as Nash is (it's actually 0.48 to 0.47 for Nash in their non-18-year-old seasons that I referred to earlier) but by being able to play more often, scores more goals.

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Old
11-04-2009, 04:41 PM
  #361
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Old
11-04-2009, 04:47 PM
  #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
It's not a perfect comparison, but I don't think Staal is all that much better, if any. Staal isn't the goalscorer Nash is, and his assists aren't all that much better. Staal's assist edge is a little better than Nash's goal edge, but Staal has also had the luxury of some good players to receive the puck from, and the only season Nash has had that, he put up very good numbers. Nash also led the league in goals as a sophomore, which can't be ignored.

As for Gagne, yes I read it, I just disagreed with parts of it, or basically the way overpass painted Nash as a guy who lived off the pp quite a bit. Gagne's led the league in ES goals, but Nash also has a top-5 and two top-10 finishes in that same department. Gagne's also done it while typically riding shotgun with a very talented centerman(in his two biggest goalscoring years, Forsberg was with him for the most part, as was JR and Richards the only other times he's hit 30). He does have a better defensive track record, but as stated, I have no reason not to believe Nash's defensive play won't be good, especially as Hitch is again his coach.

I won't deny that Gagne is underrated, but his offensive track record is fairly meh at best(you can talk about ES points and goal differential all you want, the fact is Gagne's never done much without a great player on his line) and his defensive track record, while good, is hardly outstanding, either. On the Nash front, I find his defensive play, outstanding leadership, and great goalscoring abilities to be great qualities for any fourth line.
Some of what I was getting at with Nash is that yes, I probably would ignore the fact that he led the NHL in goals as a sophomore. Normally a player who leads the NHL in goals could play on my fourth line or more, but when he scored 19 of his 41 goals on the PP, only had 6 ES assists, and was -27, no thanks. He's improved at even strength since then, but I'd say he was a power play creation that year.

Good move putting Nash with Hitchcock. (Coincidentally, Gagne also played a few years for Hitchcock.) But if you want to ignore the part of Nash's track record where he was a poor defensive player and didn't score much at even strength, his track record is a lot shorter.

Yes, Gagne has had better centers than Nash, and that's undoubtedly helped his numbers. But Gagne has far better defensive numbers than Nash - 0.45 ESGA/game compared to 0.66 ESGA/game. There's a pretty big gap to make up, and Gagne's numbers have been excellent with JR, Forsberg, and Richards. Also, Gagne's teams have been below average when he's off the ice, (although not as bad as Nash's), so he hasn't had a lot of support from his defense or goalies.

Gagne's also had good results without top centers - Forsberg wasn't much help in 2006-07, and Gagne had a very good year on a worse team than Nash ever played on.

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11-04-2009, 04:48 PM
  #363
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Jean-Sebastien Giguere, G



210 wins in the regular season, and his 0.914 save percentage in the regular season is sixth best among goalies with at least 400 GP since 1995. In the playoffs, he has a Stanley Cup ring as a starting goaltender and a Conn Smythe candidate, as well as a Conn Smythe trophy awarded for one of the greatest playoff performances ever by a goalie.

Even Strength SV%, minimum 350 games, 1999-2009
1. Dominik Hasek, 0.931
2. Roberto Luongo, 0.929
3. Jean-Sebastien Giguere, 0.926
(League average 0.917)

His SV% on the PK is not among the leaders, but it's respectable - 0.871 compared to league average of 0.866.

His 2003 playoff SV% of 0.945 is the best ever by a goaltender with at least 12 wins in a single playoff year. Adjusting for league average would bring Roy's 1993 and others into the conversation, but it was still among the greatest playoff runs by a goalie.


Last edited by overpass: 11-05-2009 at 12:57 PM.
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Old
11-04-2009, 05:13 PM
  #364
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Anyone wanna take my list?

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11-04-2009, 05:25 PM
  #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
Means I'm up then. Anyway, while this guy does get overrated at times for obvious reasons, we can't forget that he was a pretty good winger in his day, bringing a little offense and a good defensive presence as well, on top of scoring Canada's most famous goal.

New York Golden Blades select LW/RW Paul Henderson.
Damn, was really hoping he'd make it to me, but in a way I'm happy he didn't. I think because of the Summit Series, he gets overrated outside this board, but on this board I think he's underrated. A great character guy for any fourth line.

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11-04-2009, 05:26 PM
  #366
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Anyone wanna take my list?
Yep.

Cup is automatically skipped. LL is up.

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11-04-2009, 05:31 PM
  #367
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Yep.

Cup is automatically skipped. LL is up.
List sent.

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11-04-2009, 05:31 PM
  #368
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So do we do something about Cup yet?

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11-04-2009, 05:40 PM
  #369
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Some of what I was getting at with Nash is that yes, I probably would ignore the fact that he led the NHL in goals as a sophomore. Normally a player who leads the NHL in goals could play on my fourth line or more, but when he scored 19 of his 41 goals on the PP, only had 6 ES assists, and was -27, no thanks. He's improved at even strength since then, but I'd say he was a power play creation that year.

Good move putting Nash with Hitchcock. (Coincidentally, Gagne also played a few years for Hitchcock.) But if you want to ignore the part of Nash's track record where he was a poor defensive player and didn't score much at even strength, his track record is a lot shorter.

Yes, Gagne has had better centers than Nash, and that's undoubtedly helped his numbers. But Gagne has far better defensive numbers than Nash - 0.45 ESGA/game compared to 0.66 ESGA/game. There's a pretty big gap to make up, and Gagne's numbers have been excellent with JR, Forsberg, and Richards. Also, Gagne's teams have been below average when he's off the ice, (although not as bad as Nash's), so he hasn't had a lot of support from his defense or goalies.

Gagne's also had good results without top centers - Forsberg wasn't much help in 2006-07, and Gagne had a very good year on a worse team than Nash ever played on.
While Nash did score quite a bit on the PP in his sophomore year, no, you can't ignore the fact that he led the league in goals. Powerplay or not, it's an impressive feat, and that team was horrible offensively outside of Nash. One guy had 31 assists to lead the team, and 4 others had 20+(25, 21, 20, 20). It's no wonder he scored a lot of goals on the powerplay, seeing as it would've been ridiculously hard to score otherwise. Nash nearly scored a quarter of his teams' goals by himself as well. And Nash was still 9th that year in ES goals. He was hardly a PP creation. It's not like Columbus had a good powerplay, either. Nash scored 40% of his teams' PP goals and Columbus had the 24th ranked PP that year. No, Nash wasn't a PP creation, he was simply his team's powerplay.

I would say Gagne definitely has an edge over Nash in defensive play, but those numbers are somewhat deceiving, as his worst two years in that regard were his first two in the league, and they were on an absolutely horrible, especially defensively(29ths and 24th in GA/G, 28th both years in SA/G). He didn't help, but it would be hard for a number of players to have good defensive numbers on teams like that. Again, Gagne has an edge defensively, but Nash's defensive play worries me not.

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11-04-2009, 05:42 PM
  #370
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Jean-Sebastien Giguere, G

210 wins in the regular season, and his 0.914 save percentage in the regular season is sixth best among goalies with at least 400 GP since 1995. In the playoffs, he has a Stanley Cup ring as a starter and a Conn Smythe trophy awarded for one of the greatest playoff performances ever by a goalie.
He probably should have two Conn Smythes, to be honest. Great pick. If your starter happens to struggle or go down, it's always great to know you have an amazing playoff performer backing him up.

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11-04-2009, 05:47 PM
  #371
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
Damn, was really hoping he'd make it to me, but in a way I'm happy he didn't. I think because of the Summit Series, he gets overrated outside this board, but on this board I think he's underrated. A great character guy for any fourth line.
Yeah, he's a lot like Hainsworth in the sense that his greatest accomplishment probably works against him, because he probably will get little to no credit for it from some, and some will find that once they debunk that, there's nothing to look at. For me, he'll be my 13th forward, but there's a great chance he'll be seeing some good playing time. I'm not sure who my other spare forward will be, but if I want added defense, he'll go in for Vaive or Nash. There's a chance he'll actually supplant Nash on the fourth line(thoughts on this, anyone?) for the rest of the way, as I think he's a competent enough scorer to do well with Broten and Vaive, and his defensive play, along with Broten's, will make up for Vaive in a big way. Probably the biggest reason I picked Nash ahead of him was the other, similar contemporaries going at the time(Richards, Getzlaf, Gagne, Staal), and I was afraid he wouldn't slip much longer. Definitely a gamble, as I really wanted Henderson as well, but it paid off.

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11-04-2009, 05:51 PM
  #372
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Miners take Ron Stewart, C.

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11-04-2009, 06:02 PM
  #373
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Miners take Ron Stewart, C.
Really don't remember Ron Stewart ever playing centre. Know he played RW & some defense.

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11-04-2009, 06:34 PM
  #374
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If by chance my pick comes up toniight, just skip me. I will catch up later.

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11-04-2009, 06:53 PM
  #375
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Really don't remember Ron Stewart ever playing centre. Know he played RW & some defense.
Agree, never saw anything about him at centre. Mainly RW, and could also drop to D or over to LW if needed.

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