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All-Time Draft #12, Part V

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Old
11-01-2009, 11:12 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
I had a hunch you would pick him. He's been on my radar for a while. Excellent goal scorer in tight. Crashes the net well. He found success playing both wings. The problem is, where does he fit? Second line LW, or a third scoring line winger? Yeah, I like him for those roles. But he's not strong defensively or physical. Doesn't bring enough to the table to play anything other than a scoring line role.
I didn't really have a firm place in mind prior to picking him, mostly because I'm involved in trade talks. He may end up making a nice replacement for somebody.

As it is, he's been the BPA at his position since Davidson went and maybe even before then.

The lineup in pencil:

Smith-Sakic-Aurie
Gottselig-Dionne-Leach
Andreychuk-Murray-Bellows
Wilson-Poulin-Tremblay

But again, this will probably change, and I'll be disappointed if it doesn't.

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Old
11-01-2009, 11:13 PM
  #127
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he was bad

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Old
11-01-2009, 11:31 PM
  #128
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What do you guys think of the Svehla pick? He doesn't have the hardware voting like other defensemen do, but he was such a solid player in every aspect of the game. Incredibly physical, leading the league in hits during a number of seasons, and put up some solid offensive numbers, all while being very reliable defensively. I missed him in Toronto.

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Old
11-01-2009, 11:34 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by jareklajkosz View Post
What do you guys think of the Svehla pick? He doesn't have the hardware voting like other defensemen do, but he was such a solid player in every aspect of the game. Incredibly physical, leading the league in hits during a number of seasons, and put up some solid offensive numbers, all while being very reliable defensively. I missed him in Toronto.
I had him on my top pairing in the MLD.

He's basically good at everything, elite at nothing.

I think he'd be an ideal #7, as he can fill any role adequately, but I wouldn't have him in the Top 6 in this thing.

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Old
11-01-2009, 11:46 PM
  #130
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What do you guys think of the Svehla pick? He doesn't have the hardware voting like other defensemen do, but he was such a solid player in every aspect of the game. Incredibly physical, leading the league in hits during a number of seasons, and put up some solid offensive numbers, all while being very reliable defensively. I missed him in Toronto.
In a 32-team draft, he's okay for a No. 6. He's solid. He's steady. I've never been as big of a Svehla fan as others around here.

As a third-pairing guy, he isn't going to hurt you. He's not a guy who's on my list - I think there are better guys out there for the No. 6 role. But he's okay.

And Svehla's a hard guy to evaluate because he didn't come to the show until he was 26. You're basically looking at an eight-year veteran. And at no point in those eight seasons did he make me stand up and say "Wow, what a fantastic season Svehla had" or "he really established himself as one of the league's elite in (x) facet of the game this season."

I'd rather have him for that role than Duchesne.

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11-01-2009, 11:55 PM
  #131
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imo, svehla is a good pick. i think how the 6th d-man fits into the team is more important than how he did in all star voting, especially now that there are 32 teams.


for example, i don't think don awrey was the best d-man remaining, but b/c i have a small, non-elite goalie, i decided to have my D focus on shotblocking.

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Old
11-02-2009, 12:00 AM
  #132
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me too.
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Originally Posted by jareklajkosz View Post
I love it. This guy was my absolute FAVORITE player the year he played for the Leafs, and I was really upset when he didn't come back.
You two and your agreeance on everything is sickening. Very odd contrast to VanI and FI#2's entry in ATD9 where FI#2 seemed pretty pissed off a lot of the time. Those were the days, I tells ya.

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11-02-2009, 12:10 AM
  #133
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Alright, I should be on time regularly again from now on guys.

Could I get some opinions on my last three picks please - Svoboda, Simpson, and Jpseph. All three are guys that I've had on my long list for a while, and I've meant to research all three extensively, but haven't had the time. I know they probably weren't the three greatest picks, but some feedback from others would be much appreciated.

Here's my lineup as it is:

Coach Lemaire

Gillies - Thornton - Bossy
Kovalchuk - Savard - Hedberg
Lonsberry - Backstrom - Nystrom
Simpson - Steen - XXX

Pronger - Bouchard
Morrow - Heller
Greschner - Svoboda

Brodeur
Joseph
I don't know what to make of Simpson. He would appear to be a product of Gretzky... except he led the playoffs in scoring in 1990, without Gretzky. But other than a few regular seasons with Gretzky and the playoffs in 1990, he was pretty ordinary. But then, you could argue that he's a 4th liner who can chip in clutch scoring, so maybe that's enough.

Svoboda - I'm not sure what makes him so special either. But then, from looking at old drafts, he always seems to get picked, so maybe others know something I don't.

Joseph - One of the best backups in this thing IMO. Very good in the regular season. Questionable in the playoffs, but who cares when Brodeur is the starter? I'm just not sure I would take a backup this soon when your starter will play 70 games a year.


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Old
11-02-2009, 12:12 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
Thanks for making my pick 70s. IMO Luongo is one of the better back-ups in the draft. We don't fault guys like Rayner or Worters too much for being on bad teams, so I think Luongo fits right in there as well. He hasn't won a Hart like those guys have, but we can say for sure that during his era(let's say, the 2000s), he's been one of the top-5 goalies(and that's a conservative rating on my part, I personally would put him at #2). I'm not sure you can confidently say that about either Worters or Rayner. He does lack a playoff record, but when he has made it, he's been dynamite.
Luongo's regular season record should not be questioned. It does get overrated on hfboards a bit (he does only have 2 second team all star selections after all), but I think he's accomplished enough to be one of the better backups.

The questions about Luongo are how he can perform under pressure, where he has a mixed record. But like Cujo, as the backup, that shouldn't really matter.


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Old
11-02-2009, 12:22 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
imo, svehla is a good pick. i think how the 6th d-man fits into the team is more important than how he did in all star voting, especially now that there are 32 teams.


for example, i don't think don awrey was the best d-man remaining, but b/c i have a small, non-elite goalie, i decided to have my D focus on shotblocking.
Yeah, I probably should have mentioned that I needed another defenseman that can play the PP. With White and Howell in my top-4, I was thin in that regard.

Duchesne won't play a whole lot at even strength and he won't be on the PK.

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Old
11-02-2009, 12:37 AM
  #136
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Who can take my picks?

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Old
11-02-2009, 12:46 AM
  #137
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St. Georges drafts Georges Mantha.



The two-time key performer in Stanley Cup championships - defensively praised in the 1930 cup win and offensively with 5 playoff goals in their repeat in 1931 - joins a Garaga team that already sports his brother Sylvio.

from Legends
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Georges Mantha was a versatile NHLer who played both defence and left-wing in a career that spanned 13 seasons. He was a fine puck handler with a good shot who helped his team's power play and transition game regardless of what position he played.

He played cleanly and with a consistent work ethic.

The solid defensive forward was a key influence on the Montreal club that upset the Boston Bruins in the 1930 Stanley Cup finals. The Beantowners were prohibitive favourites after posting a 38-5-1 record in the regular season, but their potent attack was stymied by the relentless checking of Mantha and linemates. The next year, Mantha contributed five playoff goals when Montreal repeated as Cup winners in a hard fought series against the Chicago Black Hawks.

By the late 1930s, Mantha was a key offensive producer for the Canadiens. He hit double figures in goals scored three times in four years. His best performance was 23 goals in 1937-38.

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Old
11-02-2009, 01:05 AM
  #138
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a lil personal note on brian bellows

His uncle was my dads best friend when they grew up here in Cape Breton.

Brian's mom is a Caper

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Old
11-02-2009, 01:12 AM
  #139
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I'm up next, but it's 2 AM here now. Is anyone gonna be around for a few more hours to take a list?

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11-02-2009, 01:23 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
You two and your agreeance on everything is sickening. Very odd contrast to VanI and FI#2's entry in ATD9 where FI#2 seemed pretty pissed off a lot of the time. Those were the days, I tells ya.
Well, they are Co-GM and both love to sell their players. I find it funnier than sickening.

And yes, I remember those days, when the ATD was a war rather than a fun experience

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11-02-2009, 01:25 AM
  #141
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list, anyone?

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Old
11-02-2009, 01:34 AM
  #142
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Well, sent my list to EB and DevilsFan, since they're the only ones online. I've done all I can.

'Night.

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11-02-2009, 01:43 AM
  #143
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Steelers select Chris Osgood, G.

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Old
11-02-2009, 01:45 AM
  #144
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Steelers select Chris Osgood, G.
arrbez will be pleased you picked before I passed out.

arrbez picks Wilf Paiement

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Old
11-02-2009, 01:55 AM
  #145
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The questions about Luongo are how he can perform under pressure, where he has a mixed record. But like Cujo, as the backup, that shouldn't really matter.
I really think the mixed record thing is a bit unfair. In most pressure situations he's been fine. He was bad in game 6 versus Chicago, but every goalie has an epically bad playoff performance. When he's made the playoffs, his SV% has been fantastic. Internationally he won two World Championships and managed to win the World Cup semi-final in OT (although he gave up a bad goal in that game). The main problem with Luongo in an ATD context is the lack of awards and lack of a cup, but as you said, that's not too much of an issue with a backup.

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Old
11-02-2009, 01:59 AM
  #146
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I really think the mixed record thing is a bit unfair. In most pressure situations he's been fine. He was bad in game 6 versus Chicago, but every goalie has an epically bad playoff performance. When he's made the playoffs, his SV% has been fantastic. Internationally he won two World Championships and managed to win the World Cup semi-final in OT (although he gave up a bad goal in that game). The main problem with Luongo in an ATD context is the lack of awards and lack of a cup, but as you said, that's not too much of an issue with a backup.
The infamous Scott Niedermayer goal in 2007. Poor play down the stretch at the end of the 2008 regular season. Poor play in the second round of the 2009 playoffs. Those are the last 3 NHL seasons. Luongo's play in pressure situations isn't all bad, but I think calling it "mixed" is quite fair. (But again, it really doesn't matter for an ATD backup).

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11-02-2009, 02:21 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Well, they are Co-GM and both love to sell their players. I find it funnier than sickening.

And yes, I remember those days, when the ATD was a war rather than a fun experience
Yeah, ATD#9 was a hard one, and I can't honestly say I wasn't part of the problem.

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Old
11-02-2009, 03:11 AM
  #148
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Well, they are Co-GM and both love to sell their players. I find it funnier than sickening.

And yes, I remember those days, when the ATD was a war rather than a fun experience
Sorry, my bad, should've included one of these or something.

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11-02-2009, 03:24 AM
  #149
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The infamous Scott Niedermayer goal in 2007. Poor play down the stretch at the end of the 2008 regular season. Poor play in the second round of the 2009 playoffs. Those are the last 3 NHL seasons. Luongo's play in pressure situations isn't all bad, but I think calling it "mixed" is quite fair. (But again, it really doesn't matter for an ATD backup).
If we're gonna include that in discussions we might as well knock Doug Harvey knocking the cup winner into his own net. It was a single gaffe, where he was trying to plead with the ref for a penalty, and it cost him. What's forgotten, though, is that he was phenominal that game.

I'd call his playoff record pretty decent. It especially looks better when you consider how inept the team in front of him(no offense Canuck fans) could be at times during the playoffs. His bad game against Chicago will stand out, but overall his numbers were decent, and in 06-07 he was absolutely phenominal.

And while this won't matter too much, as he's the back-up, one thing I highly value in a backup is the ability to step up and play at a very high level if needed, and that's something Roberto can do. If Rayner goes down, I'm very confident that Luongo can come in and give me a great chance to win.

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11-02-2009, 04:32 AM
  #150
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Yeah, ATD#9 was a hard one, and I can't honestly say I wasn't part of the problem.
I don't know if I was part of the problem, but I absolutely wasn't part of the solution. ATD #9 left me very tired.

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Originally Posted by overpass View Post
My source for that was The New York Rangers: Broadway Longest Running Hit. The lower number does sound more reasonable.



I have the power play numbers from 1954-55 on, compiled from the Hockey Summary Project data.

Power Play Scoring for Camille Henry
1954-55: 5 goals, 2 assists, 7 points
1956-57: 8 goals (t6), 7 assists, 15 points
1957-58: 18 goals (1), 12 assists, 30 points (2)
1958-59: 10 goals (5), 20 assists (t2), 30 points (3)
1959-60: 4 goals, 7 assists, 11 points
1960-61: 8 goals (t5), 8 assists, 16 points (10)
1961-62: 6 goals, 4 assists, 10 points
1962-63: 12 goals (2), 6 assists, 18 points (t7)
1963-64: 9 goals (6), 8 assists, 17 points (t7)
1964-65: 16 goals (1), 6 assists, 22 points (t7)

Top power play goal scorers from 1954-55 to 1964-65
1. Jean Beliveau, 141 goals
2. Gordie Howe, 125 goals
3. Camille Henry, 96 goals
4. Bernie Geoffrion, 94 goals
5. Bobby Hull, 89 goals

Top power play points from 1954-55 to 1964-65
1. Jean Beliveau, 335 points
2. Gordie Howe, 332 points
3. Andy Bathgate, 261 points
4. Bernie Geoffrion, 242 points
5. Alex Delvecchio, 220 points
6. Bobby Hull, 181 points
7. Stan Mikita, 178 points
8. Camille Henry, 174 points
9. Dickie Moore, 173 points
10. Doug Harvey, 160 points
Thanks. I think this proves that on the power play he was an elite talent. Was he a typical power play sniper? No. Was he effective? Absolutly. And effectiveness is what matters.

I still have to crunch numbers to determine how the 2nd pairing will work, but I think Camille Henry should be viewed as one of, if not the best pp scorer on a 2nd unit. And I can't see an argument about how he's not good enough for 4th line duty.

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