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Old
11-02-2009, 10:44 AM
  #501
JMiller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
I think the major issue is that those players best, isn't as productive as Wheeler playing half-assed.

All our heart and soul guys can give us all the heart and soul they want, but if the goals aren't going up on the board it's all pretty much for not. A great defensive team will only take you so far, which is why having a legit sniper last year was so damn refreshing. A guy that can pot goals on demand is a benefit to everyone on the ice, and makes the rest of the offense come so much easier.

Guys like Wheeler, and Ryder need to be better then they were last year to make up for that, as they now take the focus.
It depends what you consider production. If you're just talking goals then of course Wheeler can score more than 4th liners. But if you're talking overall production- contribuitions to the team's game and fortunes shift by shift, the 4th line has been every bit as productive as Wheeler.

The one goal scored yesterday came from Wheeler losing his man on the back check. But we'll overlook that because he's good in the shootout.

Ryder is a bit of a different case because when he's not scoring, at least he's playing the body, protecting the puck, playing defense and the rest. Wheeler has been waiting and waiting for offensive chances and doing little else. I'm sure the coaching staff has taken notice as his ice time has been cut back pretty well.

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Old
11-02-2009, 10:51 AM
  #502
CamFan81
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Fire julien! Bench Thomas! Trade chara!

There are definately some things the bruins need to work on, but my god.

The bruins had more quality scoring chances against the Rangers, but lundqvist was awesome in net. The goal that the rangers scored wasn't a pretty one, being screened by chara doesn't help.

The Jersey game was a hard fought game as well, and the bruins showed life.

Do people honestly forget last year? and how the season started? Don't get me wrong, I am extremely frustrated. I know our team can play better, but this team obviously needs a little more time to find its way. Just keep in mind last year, how the season started and how it ended (the regular season lol).

last October (08) we were 5-6
and our powerplay was approximately 7-69 or 10.1%.

This October (09) we are 6-7
and our powerplay is 6-49 or 12.2%.

IMO, this team is NOT that different from last years team.

No kessel
No Ward
No Yelle
No Hnidy

Sturm
Morris
Begin
Pie-yay! (still havin fun w/ that one).

Chill out guys, and try to enjoy the fact that we are going to come out blazing very shortly.

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Old
11-02-2009, 10:57 AM
  #503
Kaoz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
It depends what you consider production. If you're just talking goals then of course Wheeler can score more than 4th liners. But if you're talking overall production- contribuitions to the team's game and fortunes shift by shift, the 4th line has been every bit as productive as Wheeler.

The one goal scored yesterday came from Wheeler losing his man on the back check. But we'll overlook that because he's good in the shootout.

Ryder is a bit of a different case because when he's not scoring, at least he's playing the body, protecting the puck, playing defense and the rest. Wheeler has been waiting and waiting for offensive chances and doing little else. I'm sure the coaching staff has taken notice as his ice time has been cut back pretty well.
I consider production the things that determine a hockey game, and the thing that drastically overpowers every other aspect of contribution are goals for and goals against.

Every other aspect a hockey player brings is relatively useless in the overall scheme if you can't score a goal, and prevent the other team from doing the exact same thing.

If the fourth line rarely scores, having them out there in the final 2 minutes doesn't often help you win a game. It's great they buzz around the net, maintain puck control, and maintain offensive pressure but if those were the only requisites for super stardom Sergei Samsonov would be one of the best players in the game today.

Don't get me wrong, those types serve their purpose, but they aren't the ones that are going to lead your team to wins. They'll eat up minutes, keep the puck out of your own net, swing momentum, generate some intensity (assuming your line is built that way), but they're not likely to be the difference in a hockey game. Teams have won it all with out a large physical presence, without a noteworthy defensive squad, without being all heart and soul, and without an All Star goaltender. Teams don't win without a legit goal scoring presence, and the big question right now is can anyone on this team be one?

Aside from Wheeler, I don't see the potential in any player dressed personally, and that's a fairly large cause for concern.

Last couple of minutes of a hockey game which we trail, I would rather see the half assed guy out there that has the potential to score personally then the guys giving it their all that likely won't.

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Old
11-02-2009, 11:02 AM
  #504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
I consider production the things that determine a hockey game, and the thing that drastically overpowers every other aspect of contribution are goals for and goals against.

Every other aspect a hockey player brings is relatively useless in the overall scheme if you can't score a goal, and prevent the other team from doing the exact same thing.

If the fourth line rarely scores, having them out there in the final 2 minutes doesn't often help you win a game. It's great they buzz around the net, maintain puck control, and maintain offensive pressure but if those were the only requisites for super stardom Sergei Samsonov would be one of the best players in the game today.

Don't get me wrong, those types serve their purpose, but they aren't the ones that are going to lead your team to wins. They'll eat up minutes, keep the puck out of your own net, swing momentum, generate some intensity (assuming your line is built that way), but they're not likely to be the difference in a hockey game. Teams have won it all with out a large physical presence, without a noteworthy defensive squad, without being all heart and soul, and without an All Star goaltender. Teams don't win without a legit goal scoring presence, and the big question right now is can anyone on this team be one?

Aside from Wheeler, I don't see the potential in any player dressed personally, and that's a fairly large cause for concern.

Last couple of minutes of a hockey game which we trail, I would rather see the half assed guy out there that has the potential to score personally then the guys giving it their all that likely won't.
Thanks, Kaoz. That's what I was trying to say, but, if I post in this place for 100 years, I could never say it as rationally as you just did.

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Old
11-02-2009, 11:56 AM
  #505
Kaoz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksp1957 View Post
Thanks, Kaoz. That's what I was trying to say, but, if I post in this place for 100 years, I could never say it as rationally as you just did.
Hey hey, great minds think alike, of course, so do most deranged ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CamFan81 View Post
Fire julien! Bench Thomas! Trade chara!

There are definately some things the bruins need to work on, but my god.

The bruins had more quality scoring chances against the Rangers, but lundqvist was awesome in net. The goal that the rangers scored wasn't a pretty one, being screened by chara doesn't help.

The Jersey game was a hard fought game as well, and the bruins showed life.

Do people honestly forget last year? and how the season started? Don't get me wrong, I am extremely frustrated. I know our team can play better, but this team obviously needs a little more time to find its way. Just keep in mind last year, how the season started and how it ended (the regular season lol).

last October (08) we were 5-6
and our powerplay was approximately 7-69 or 10.1%.

This October (09) we are 6-7
and our powerplay is 6-49 or 12.2%.

IMO, this team is NOT that different from last years team.

No kessel
No Ward
No Yelle
No Hnidy

Sturm
Morris
Begin
Pie-yay! (still havin fun w/ that one).

Chill out guys, and try to enjoy the fact that we are going to come out blazing very shortly.
I don't forget how last year started, and I don't forget how the year before or the year before went in their entirety. I also find it hard to forget how last year ended (from the ASG break on this team hasn't looked like the powerhouse they originally did).

Now that's not to say the foundation for a great team doesn't exist, I really think it does. I just think goal scoring is missing, no one on the current roster can bring it consistently and contrary to popular opinion, I don't think a slew of 20 goal guys will make up for that.

As for your out/in comparison, I read that like so:

Out - In
Ward < Morris
Yelle = Begin
Paille = Kobasew
Kessel >>>> Sturm

I think this team is actually better then last years version with the addition of Morris, except for the fact that we have no replacement for the first line talent we lost and are instead throwing a proven second line talent just coming off a season ending injury, and a bunch of rookies/softmores to the wolves expecting them to replace his production.

I think myself that the loss of a first line talent is rather major, especially when you try to replace that loss from within. If Wheels isn't ready to get it done yet this year, then I don't know who will (and with the patience around these parts he may just find himself the next scapegoat). Hopefully I'm wrong, or hopefully Chia addresses the issue, I just don't see a Stanley Cup contender when looking at the current roster.

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Old
11-02-2009, 02:46 PM
  #506
JMiller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
I consider production the things that determine a hockey game, and the thing that drastically overpowers every other aspect of contribution are goals for and goals against.

Every other aspect a hockey player brings is relatively useless in the overall scheme if you can't score a goal, and prevent the other team from doing the exact same thing.

If the fourth line rarely scores, having them out there in the final 2 minutes doesn't often help you win a game. It's great they buzz around the net, maintain puck control, and maintain offensive pressure but if those were the only requisites for super stardom Sergei Samsonov would be one of the best players in the game today.

Don't get me wrong, those types serve their purpose, but they aren't the ones that are going to lead your team to wins. They'll eat up minutes, keep the puck out of your own net, swing momentum, generate some intensity (assuming your line is built that way), but they're not likely to be the difference in a hockey game. Teams have won it all with out a large physical presence, without a noteworthy defensive squad, without being all heart and soul, and without an All Star goaltender. Teams don't win without a legit goal scoring presence, and the big question right now is can anyone on this team be one?

Aside from Wheeler, I don't see the potential in any player dressed personally, and that's a fairly large cause for concern.

Last couple of minutes of a hockey game which we trail, I would rather see the half assed guy out there that has the potential to score personally then the guys giving it their all that likely won't.
That's where we differ. If they want to be on the ice in the last two minutes they need to play like they want it in the first 58. Besides, right now they havent shown that they can score more than the 4th line. Begin is neck and neck in "production" with the teams top line players. I blame them, not him, for that.

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Old
11-02-2009, 02:56 PM
  #507
VeddarRants
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Originally Posted by Alan Ryan View Post
What is this "Matrix thing"regarding Krejci? I have no idea what this means.
It's actually in reference to when Krejci slows down the game. Edwards is drawing comparisons to the Matrix movie's infamous and ground breaking " bullet time " camera work, where they would slow the frames of action scenes for a few seconds while panning around to show the scene from another angle.

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Old
11-02-2009, 02:59 PM
  #508
Kaoz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
That's where we differ. If they want to be on the ice in the last two minutes they need to play like they want it in the first 58. Besides, right now they havent shown that they can score more than the 4th line. Begin is neck and neck in "production" with the teams top line players. I blame them, not him for that.
And you have a very valid point, Begin has done quite well to start here. Think he keeps it up though, or is it more likely an anomaly. I have to go with the latter.

Give me a choice between Wheeler or Begin out there in a must win situation, I take Wheeler as he's far more likely to pot that much needed goal even thought the stat sheet may not reflect that right now. The fact that so much offense has come from a guy that isn't at all noted for that is just another reason for concern. When he inevitably evens out we need to make up for that offense as well.

Too each their own though. Effort is worth it's weight in gold to many and I agree with the underlying sentiment that you want your players to work for it. I'd give my left index finger right about now for someone that can score goals without even really trying though.

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