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Coyotes Ownership/Financial Situation #8

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Old
11-04-2009, 09:49 AM
  #26
DekeTretiak
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Originally Posted by RR View Post
I watched the announced "sellout" in Toronto tonight and there were a bunch of empty seats in the lower level.
FYI. Those seats are not "empty". The sushi-eating corporate types that inhabit them are slow to come back to their seats from the intermissions. Too many amenities in the building for them to feel the need to rush back to their seats at the start of play. If you tune back in later, the seats are re-filled by the middle of the period.

The Toronto Star did a story on this phenomenon a year or so ago and interviewed some STHs. They readily admitted that since the team was doing so poorly, they preferred to hang out in the lounges and bars on the concourse than to return to their seats.

I've often thought that MLSE should hire people to sit in the seats until the STHs return, just like at the Academy Awards.

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11-04-2009, 10:52 AM
  #27
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The very simple point is to not expect investors to be clamoring to invest in a hockey team that is absolutely anchored to Glendale, which so happens to be the place it has failed miserably to date.
Do you think all potential investors will think Glendale is the primary driver of it's failure so far? Despite what Moyes tried to tell everyone, I think most know their failure has a lot more to do with the on-ice product then it's location. The on-ice product has nothing to do with location and everything to do with the drafting by the organization from 96-2002. The drafting done the last 5 years will have everything to do with on-ice success the next 15 years. I imagine any investor who is interested in the team thinks the same. I'm not saying any investor is 'clamoring' to buy the team....But anyone who is the slightest bit knowledgeable about hockey knows the Coyotes are loaded with young talent ready to positively impact the on-ice product for years to come.

The whole Glendale excuse is comical given Glendale is 20 minutes from downtown Phoenix.


Last edited by Devils Advocate: 11-04-2009 at 12:16 PM.
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11-04-2009, 11:19 AM
  #28
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I think these were both directed at me but I don't understand either one.
My post wasnít aimed at any one person as much as it is a statement about how I feel as a fan of this franchise. I am scared. I get depressed going to the games and only seeing 5,000 people there. I understand how people feel mistreated by this franchise, I understand how the economy sucks and people might just be waiting for answers to who, where, what, why answers to the future before they act. I understand all of it because I have the same questions and feelings. I am taking a different approach. I love this team! If it were to leave I would survive but it would leave a very large void in me. I am not going to sit back and wait. I am going to be at every game, I am going to try and bring people to games and I am just going to enjoy it while it lasts.

I guess all I am saying is if you are a fan of this team you should try to do what you can to be there whenever you can now rather than later. I guess I am specifically talking to the people who are waiting because the have a convenient excuses to wait. It is almost like the east valley people not coming to games because itís too far. If you really wanted to be at the games you would come (if you can). If you donít want to come then quit making excuses and donít.

Please know that I am not specifically calling anyone out just pleading with people who might still be on the fence.

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11-04-2009, 11:31 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by DekeTretiak View Post
FYI. Those seats are not "empty". The sushi-eating corporate types that inhabit them are slow to come back to their seats from the intermissions. Too many amenities in the building for them to feel the need to rush back to their seats at the start of play. If you tune back in later, the seats are re-filled by the middle of the period.

The Toronto Star did a story on this phenomenon a year or so ago and interviewed some STHs. They readily admitted that since the team was doing so poorly, they preferred to hang out in the lounges and bars on the concourse than to return to their seats.

I've often thought that MLSE should hire people to sit in the seats until the STHs return, just like at the Academy Awards.
I appreciate the effort to insist that every seat sold and comped to every game is filled, but it's simply not true in Toronto or anywhere else. Some people who have tickets to games simply don't show up, even in Toronto.

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11-04-2009, 12:31 PM
  #30
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I appreciate the effort to insist that every seat sold and comped to every game is filled, but it's simply not true in Toronto or anywhere else. Some people who have tickets to games simply don't show up, even in Toronto.
That's true, but I just wanted to point out that if you watched the Toronto games longer those lower bowl seats do fill up. The number of seats that stay empty throughout the game are far fewer than many markets, even on a Tuesday night.

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11-04-2009, 12:52 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by XavierX View Post
The very simple point is to not expect investors to be clamoring to invest in a hockey team that is absolutely anchored to Glendale, which so happens to be the place it has failed miserably to date.
Clamoring or not is irrelevant, if they sign a deal that only guarantees the Coyotes stay in AZ for 2 years, attendance will remain dismal.

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11-04-2009, 05:32 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Devils Advocate View Post
But anyone who is the slightest bit knowledgeable about hockey knows the Coyotes are loaded with young talent ready to positively impact the on-ice product for years to come.
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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Clamoring or not is irrelevant, if they sign a deal that only guarantees the Coyotes stay in AZ for 2 years, attendance will remain dismal.
Glendale is not in a position of strength, regardless of how the fans see it. The Coyotes are not desirable, at this point in time, without some major restructuring. If you think for a moment that someone worthwhile is going to plop down the change required, and put themselves on the hook without some kind of reassurance or out then I have moon real estate I'd love to sell you. It just doesn't happen, even in the best of times. Is it so hard to believe that investors are going to need some incentive to buy the team? "You're stuck here for 30 years" is not an incentive, it's a death wish.

The whole 2 year attendance thing is **** too. If you can't support the team then you deserve to lose them. They are winning, and putting on a good show. If attendance doesn't pick up regardless of the ownership issue then move them.

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11-04-2009, 05:56 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by XavierX View Post
Glendale is not in a position of strength, regardless of how the fans see it. [...]
The whole 2 year attendance thing is **** too. If you can't support the team then you deserve to lose them. They are winning, and putting on a good show. If attendance doesn't pick up regardless of the ownership issue then move them.
You nailed it.

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11-04-2009, 06:23 PM
  #34
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You nailed it.
I'm not saying if I disagree or not. To the perspective of those who are not coming back now are saying: "Make the playoffs first, then will come back".
9-5 record now? BIG WHOOPS! The Coyotes could be in out of the playoff picture halfway through the season.

They're not forgetting about the wheels coming off after the ASB last season, a team that failed to make the playoffs in 6+ years, a team that failed to go from playoff contenders to cup contenders during the days at the AWA.

Overall response? Until you make the playoffs, were spending our money on a winning organization now called the Cardinals.
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11-04-2009, 08:27 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by XavierX View Post
Glendale is not in a position of strength, regardless of how the fans see it. The Coyotes are not desirable, at this point in time, without some major restructuring. If you think for a moment that someone worthwhile is going to plop down the change required, and put themselves on the hook without some kind of reassurance or out then I have moon real estate I'd love to sell you. It just doesn't happen, even in the best of times. Is it so hard to believe that investors are going to need some incentive to buy the team? "You're stuck here for 30 years" is not an incentive, it's a death wish.

The whole 2 year attendance thing is **** too. If you can't support the team then you deserve to lose them. They are winning, and putting on a good show. If attendance doesn't pick up regardless of the ownership issue then move them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zz View Post
You nailed it.
Ok, put down the straw man and actually read what I'm saying. AGAIN....if they sign a deal that only guarantees the Coyotes stay in AZ for 2 years, attendance will remain dismal.

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Old
11-04-2009, 09:32 PM
  #36
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Ok, put down the straw man and actually read what I'm saying. AGAIN....if they sign a deal that only guarantees the Coyotes stay in AZ for 2 years, attendance will remain dismal.
You may be right. If so, the team's as good as gone. One would have to be utterly insane to buy this team right now and sign a long term agreement with the city.

I like to believe that a combination of Olympic spirit and a playoff round would be enough to bring people back next year and hopefuly lead to a new lease agreement in 2011.

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11-04-2009, 11:33 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierX View Post
Glendale is not in a position of strength, regardless of how the fans see it. The Coyotes are not desirable, at this point in time, without some major restructuring. If you think for a moment that someone worthwhile is going to plop down the change required, and put themselves on the hook without some kind of reassurance or out then I have moon real estate I'd love to sell you. It just doesn't happen, even in the best of times. Is it so hard to believe that investors are going to need some incentive to buy the team? "You're stuck here for 30 years" is not an incentive, it's a death wish.

The whole 2 year attendance thing is **** too. If you can't support the team then you deserve to lose them. They are winning, and putting on a good show. If attendance doesn't pick up regardless of the ownership issue then move them.
It's a Catch 22. Most people won't support the team until they know new owners will commit to a long term arrangement. But new owners will most likely not commit to a long term arrangement until they know people will support the team.

Personally, I think the NHL should have at least tried to get Baum to take the team out of bankruptcy. To me, and perhaps to others, it looks like the NHL benefits from the bankruptcy in being able to move the franchise if things don't work out. If they can't commit to long term here, I kind of want them to lose as much money as possible. I want them to take it in the ass for allowing this to happen to my team. What can they do to assure me and other fans that their support for a franchise in Phoenix goes further than their short term interests? I don't know, but they need to figure out an answer to that question and get people coming to the games soon.

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Old
11-04-2009, 11:41 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by zz View Post
You may be right. If so, the team's as good as gone. One would have to be utterly insane to buy this team right now and sign a long term agreement with the city.

I like to believe that a combination of Olympic spirit and a playoff round would be enough to bring people back next year and hopefuly lead to a new lease agreement in 2011.
I certainly could be wrong and I hope I am but I just don't think people are going to look at 2 years as anything more than just a lame duck.

There are a lot of challenges obviously but I think the "utterly insane" comment is hyperbole. It's been well documented how horrible the business was ran from a financial standpoint. It's well documented how poor the drafting was until recent. We all know about Gretzky's salary as well as the cronyism. I could keep going but the point is there are several areas where serious improvements could be made to save money and put a better product on the ice. Combine that with coming to terms with CoG on other concessions and one doesn't have to be utterly insane to buy this team. They do however need to be smart and savvy, I have no idea if Ice Edge fits that bill or not.

The Olympics certainly are an unknown at this point. They could help spark some interest in the Yotes, particularly if the Yotes are still firmly in the hunt for the playoffs.

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11-04-2009, 11:52 PM
  #39
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Overall response? Until you make the playoffs, were spending our money on a winning organization now called the Cardinals.
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The hilarity of such a statement really makes me wonder if Arizona can handle hockey.

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Old
11-05-2009, 11:11 AM
  #40
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• The game was played in front of 11,012 spectators. It was the smallest home crowd in Avalanche history,
Above is from Coyotes website re last night's game.
Was this because the Yotes were playing or is the NHL experiencing lower attendance throughout the league due to the economy?
The Avalanche are winning - where are the fans?

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11-05-2009, 01:21 PM
  #41
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• The game was played in front of 11,012 spectators. It was the smallest home crowd in Avalanche history,
Above is from Coyotes website re last night's game.
Was this because the Yotes were playing or is the NHL experiencing lower attendance throughout the league due to the economy?
The Avalanche are winning - where are the fans?
I think the answer is obvious...Colorado is not a hockey market and doesn't deserve a team. Relocate!

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11-05-2009, 01:38 PM
  #42
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I think the answer is obvious...Colorado is not a hockey market and doesn't deserve a team. Relocate!
Columbus too! Move 'em to Canada!

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_yl...v=ap&type=lgns


Quote:
Other suggestions include allowing the team to renegotiate its lease for Nationwide Arena...
Very different circumstances between the Yotes and CBJ yes, but maybe "they" will give us a lot more allowance before we are relocated

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11-05-2009, 01:40 PM
  #43
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Attendance is down across the board. I'm not worried. If, in March, we're in the top 5 in the West and attendance hasn't budged then we're going to have a problem.

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11-05-2009, 02:23 PM
  #44
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Attendance is down across the board. I'm not worried. If, in March, we're in the top 5 in the West and attendance hasn't budged then we're going to have a problem.
OT: I'd be absolutely shocked if we're in the top 5 in March. The Wings, Flames and Canucks are going to get better. The Kings & Avs seem to have a good work ethic (like us), good commitment to their defensive system (like us), but more skill upfront. I see both dropping in the rankings at some point, but they should stay competitive all season.

If Bryzgalov keeps playing well and our players keep working hard at Tippett's system, we're a bubble team. But top 5? We'd need some serious improvement in our offense.

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11-05-2009, 07:35 PM
  #45
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That's one of the things I like about Ice Edge thus far, they seem to have a good grasp on the big picture and are thinking long term. They are already approaching things smarter than Moyes!
Does anyone really trust these Ice Edge guys? They are publicly saying all the right things but it doesn't add up. It seems like they are just playing the game.

Why would a group of investors from Southern Ontario want to buy the Coyotes and keep them in Glendale? It doesn't make any sense. Aren't they just interested in getting control of the team and moving them into the very lucrative Southern Ontario market?

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11-05-2009, 08:17 PM
  #46
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I don't believe they're all from Southern Ontario - or if any of them are for that matter.

Aren't most of the group living stateside. Remember the Argo's owners are no longer part of the Ice Edge group.

Edit: Jones if from Bassano (near Calgary) so his roots are closer to Phoenix than Southern Ontario.

www.iceedgeholdings.com

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11-05-2009, 10:07 PM
  #47
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I don't believe they're all from Southern Ontario - or if any of them are for that matter.

Aren't most of the group living stateside. Remember the Argo's owners are no longer part of the Ice Edge group.

Edit: Jones if from Bassano (near Calgary) so his roots are closer to Phoenix than Southern Ontario.

www.iceedgeholdings.com
I thought their roots were in Ontario. Ice Edge's CEO spent near a decade with Jim Balsillie at RIM.

Also, Phoenix is 2,000km from Calgary and obviously doesn't have the business links to Alberta that Toronto does.

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11-05-2009, 11:31 PM
  #48
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Coyotes now starting to charge $10 for premium parking in Lot G next to the arena.
Posted via Mobile Device

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Old
11-06-2009, 01:27 AM
  #49
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Coyotes now starting to charge $10 for premium parking in Lot G next to the arena.
Posted via Mobile Device
Personally I have no problem with this, if you don't mind walking a little, and I do mean a little, there are plenty of free options all over the place!

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11-06-2009, 03:05 AM
  #50
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Coyotes now starting to charge $10 for premium parking in Lot G next to the arena.
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I use Lot B on the NW side. Not that far a walk.

UoP's lot is not that far either.

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