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Terry Murray on the shootout: "It's a useless part of the game."

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Old
10-30-2009, 10:39 AM
  #1
SLang
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Terry Murray on the shootout: "It's a useless part of the game."

Quoted in the times today: "I hate the shootout....It's a useless part of the game...Boy, do I hate it." He conceded it's good for the fans.

What fans? Me? No, I hate it, too. I've never understood how it's just justifiable to end 65 minutes of tied hockey and award a win to a team based on the performance of only a few players. It's the very antithesis of "team" sport.

Some nights neither team deserves to win or lose. Simple as that.

The shootout is bull****.

OK, rant over.

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10-30-2009, 10:44 AM
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Omni Owl
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Its simple Terry, only Frolov, Kopitar, Brown, Johnson as shooters...

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Old
10-30-2009, 10:48 AM
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Because he sees it excites the crowd and he admits that getting people to come to the games is important even if he doesn't feel comfortable with that part of the game.

He's an old hockey guy.

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10-30-2009, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLang View Post
Quoted in the times today: "I hate the shootout....It's a useless part of the game...Boy, do I hate it." He conceded it's good for the fans.

What fans? Me? No, I hate it, too. I've never understood how it's just justifiable to end 65 minutes of tied hockey and award a win to a team based on the performance of only a few players. It's the very antithesis of "team" sport.

Some nights neither team deserves to win or lose. Simple as that.

The shootout is bull****.

OK, rant over.
Agreed. If the NHL really believes games need to end with a winner (seems reasonable to me), games should end using some mechanism that preserves team play.

I've felt for a long time that the league should take a cue from NCAA football. In the NCAA ties are settled by giving each team a shot at scoring from the opponent's 25 yard line. If the game remains tied after a couple of rounds, the NCAA raises the stakes by eliminating field goals and extra point kick attempts. Team play is preserved, and the game ends with a winner.

It's pretty obvious what the NHL should do. Award each team a 5-4 power play. A short-handed goal against doesn't result in a sudden-death loss, but does count toward the short-handed team's OT total (ie, give up a shorty and you'd better make the rest of your PP count). If the game remains tied after a couple-three rounds, raise the stakes and switch to 5-3 power plays. Continue until one team scores and the other doesn't. Team play is preserved, and the game gets a winner.


Last edited by null33: 10-30-2009 at 11:40 AM.
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Old
10-30-2009, 10:55 AM
  #5
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This explains why the Kings suck at shootouts. If the coach doesn't believe in it, how do you expect the players to believe?

And SLang, isn't every game decided by the performance of a few players? If you have a goalie that is playing lights out, how is that any different than having the game decided by the shootout? 1 player can affect the outcome of 60 minutes of hockey. How many time do you hear teams say that a goalie stole a game for them? It's no different than Kopitar having the attitude that he is going to win the game for his team with his shootout attempt.

It's a part of the game and we don't need a coach whining about it because he sucks at choosing the right players each night.

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10-30-2009, 11:04 AM
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Gentle Ben Kenobi
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TM is wrong here. The Shoot out is great.

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10-30-2009, 11:13 AM
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mbar
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I agree with Terry Murray. It's wrong that the winner of a crap shoot like the shoot out ends up with the same 2 points that the regulation winner of an actual hockey match gets.

Since the shootout is exciting and not going away, they really have to move to a system where a regulation win is valued most.

3 points regulation or overtime win
2 points shootout win
1 points shootout loss
0 points regulation or overtime loss

It makes so much sense they'll never do it.

It would also eliminated the annoying "bonus" point where some games are worth 2 total points and some are worth 3 points. You'll be able to actually watch a game between division rivals without thinking "for the love of god, don't tie..."

The same total points awarded in every match is the right thing to do.

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10-30-2009, 11:15 AM
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Although i don't disagree with TM's sentiment here, the reality is shootouts are in place and make the difference in getting 1 or 2 points, so put out your best shooters or hottest hands in the game that day, and try to get those points.

From a fan level i do find the shootouts quite fun!

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Old
10-30-2009, 11:17 AM
  #9
JMFJ 3
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I'd like to see a 10 minute overtime, 5 minutes is just too short.

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10-30-2009, 11:21 AM
  #10
Chazz Reinhold
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Originally Posted by JMFJ 3 View Post
5 minutes is just too short.

That's what she said.

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Old
10-30-2009, 11:37 AM
  #11
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbar View Post
I agree with Terry Murray. It's wrong that the winner of a crap shoot like the shoot out ends up with the same 2 points that the regulation winner of an actual hockey match gets.

Since the shootout is exciting and not going away, they really have to move to a system where a regulation win is valued most.

3 points regulation or overtime win
2 points shootout win
1 points shootout loss
0 points regulation or overtime loss

It makes so much sense they'll never do it.

It would also eliminated the annoying "bonus" point where some games are worth 2 total points and some are worth 3 points. You'll be able to actually watch a game between division rivals without thinking "for the love of god, don't tie..."

The same total points awarded in every match is the right thing to do.
This is how it should have always been. Every game should be worth the same number of points.

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Old
10-30-2009, 11:49 AM
  #12
lumbergh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbar View Post
I agree with Terry Murray. It's wrong that the winner of a crap shoot like the shoot out ends up with the same 2 points that the regulation winner of an actual hockey match gets.

Since the shootout is exciting and not going away, they really have to move to a system where a regulation win is valued most.

3 points regulation or overtime win
2 points shootout win
1 points shootout loss
0 points regulation or overtime loss

It makes so much sense they'll never do it.

It would also eliminated the annoying "bonus" point where some games are worth 2 total points and some are worth 3 points. You'll be able to actually watch a game between division rivals without thinking "for the love of god, don't tie..."

The same total points awarded in every match is the right thing to do.

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Old
10-30-2009, 11:55 AM
  #13
SLang
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
And SLang, isn't every game decided by the performance of a few players? If you have a goalie that is playing lights out, how is that any different than having the game decided by the shootout? 1 player can affect the outcome of 60 minutes of hockey. How many time do you hear teams say that a goalie stole a game for them? It's no different than Kopitar having the attitude that he is going to win the game for his team with his shootout attempt.
Sure, individual performances make huge differences in games. All the time. But to negate 65 minutes of team play, intentionally, to have the win/loss decided by just two guys (goalie/shooter), just doesn't sit well with me.

Some might say just start the game with a shootout and let's all go home early. Obviously extreme and lame, but I can see the point.

Maybe I'm just a traditionalist. I never got the point of the thought that a crowd needs to have a winner/loser in a game when they head home.

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Old
10-30-2009, 11:57 AM
  #14
hauspaint
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It sounds like a kid after trying to do something and when he fails after few tries, saying "I don't wanna do this, this is stupid. I don't like it anyways..."
C'mon TM, don't say those things in public.. Just accept the lose and keep trying. Or maybe he should coach better so the team doesn't have to go to SO.

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Old
10-30-2009, 12:01 PM
  #15
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It really doesn't matter if Terry Murray loves or hates shootouts - he needs to be reminded that the points from the “worthless part of the game” count just as much as those in the worthwhile part of the game…

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Old
10-30-2009, 12:03 PM
  #16
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It really doesn't matter if Terry Murray loves or hates shootouts - he needs to be reminded that the points from the “worthless part of the game” count just as much as those in the worthwhile part of the game…
this.

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Old
10-30-2009, 12:06 PM
  #17
Winger23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbar View Post
I agree with Terry Murray. It's wrong that the winner of a crap shoot like the shoot out ends up with the same 2 points that the regulation winner of an actual hockey match gets.

Since the shootout is exciting and not going away, they really have to move to a system where a regulation win is valued most.

3 points regulation or overtime win
2 points shootout win
1 points shootout loss
0 points regulation or overtime loss

It makes so much sense they'll never do it.

It would also eliminated the annoying "bonus" point where some games are worth 2 total points and some are worth 3 points. You'll be able to actually watch a game between division rivals without thinking "for the love of god, don't tie..."

The same total points awarded in every match is the right thing to do.
I agree with this except the overtime loss part getting 0 points. Since the "free" point was awarded for just making it to overtime, the extra 5 minutes have been much more fun to watch where as before it was a snorefest, especially when 2 teams were facing each other from the same conference.

I'd like to see your system, just award the loser in overtime a free point still to keep overtime entertaining.

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Old
10-30-2009, 12:09 PM
  #18
SLang
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbar View Post
Since the shootout is exciting and not going away, they really have to move to a system where a regulation win is valued most.

3 points regulation or overtime win
2 points shootout win
1 points shootout loss
0 points regulation or overtime loss

It makes so much sense they'll never do it.

It would also eliminated the annoying "bonus" point where some games are worth 2 total points and some are worth 3 points. You'll be able to actually watch a game between division rivals without thinking "for the love of god, don't tie..."

The same total points awarded in every match is the right thing to do.
I like this too, but like Winger23 I think the 0 points for the OT loss would create the situation where neither teams play to win like they do now. Wasn't that a big reason for adding the shootout to begin with?

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10-30-2009, 12:13 PM
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mbar
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Originally Posted by Winger23 View Post
I agree with this except the overtime loss part getting 0 points. Since the "free" point was awarded for just making it to overtime, the extra 5 minutes have been much more fun to watch where as before it was a snorefest, especially when 2 teams were facing each other from the same conference.

I'd like to see your system, just award the loser in overtime a free point still to keep overtime entertaining.
I would be fine with that too. Both options are infinitely superior to the current system.

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Old
10-30-2009, 12:17 PM
  #20
The Black1963
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Sometimes, TM is just a bit too old-school for my liking.

I love the shootout. It sure beats the old days when teams played not to lose.

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Old
10-30-2009, 12:40 PM
  #21
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I'm sure I'm in the minority but I hate the OTL point. Why are we rewarding teams for losing? Just because they managed to not lose in the first 60 minutes? Give me a break. 2 points for a win whether it is in regulation, OT or shootout. 1 point for shootout losers since it is essentially a slam dunk contest and not a team effort. Zero points for losing during the course of the game whether in regulation or OT. You lose, you lose. None of this, "nice effort" and a pat on the back. It would probably help if you made the OT 10 minutes too. that way it is much harder to hold on to a tie. Especially 4 on 4.

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Old
10-30-2009, 01:03 PM
  #22
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This actually earns TM points in my book and to hear about his reasoning with the shootout players he picked sort of eases the situation a little for me. I respect him a little more now.

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Old
10-30-2009, 01:17 PM
  #23
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I am sorry Terry but the shootout is NOT USELESS. Its an opportunity, the thing you tell your players to take advantage of, at every chance they get, to gain an additional point in the standings.

Old school, meet new reality. Your choices for shootout players, and the games you play to determine them cost us at least one if not two points in the last two games. Stoll over Frolov vs. the Sharks? Handzus over Kopistar, even Smyth over Kopistar? Every point counts, and rewarding players based on practice, might seem an ok way to determine shooters, but what happened with going to your money players when the chips are on the line?

Like someone said above,
Kopistar;
Frolov;
Johnson; or
Brown.

How friggin difficult is that?


Last edited by DIEHARD the King fan: 10-30-2009 at 01:28 PM.
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Old
10-30-2009, 01:27 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sueroe View Post
Although i don't disagree with TM's sentiment here, the reality is shootouts are in place and make the difference in getting 1 or 2 points, so put out your best shooters or hottest hands in the game that day, and try to get those points.

From a fan level i do find the shootouts quite fun!
After the Sharks Game, I did not find this shootout so fun to watch, particularly, when neither Kopi or Frolov (or even Brown) got to shoot.

From a coach who wants to focus on details, his choices, based on shootout practice, are still bizzare.

Might it be rememebered, Terry, that our players shoot against the opposing goalies in real Shootouts, while in practice they shoot against ours!

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Old
10-30-2009, 01:34 PM
  #25
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I'm fine with shootouts... so long as we win a few here and there.

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