HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

#16 - 11.03.09 | New York Rangers @ Vancouver Canucks | 10:00 PM - MSG (HD)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-04-2009, 11:22 AM
  #926
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 24,949
vCash: 50
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers32185 View Post
I'm in the middle with this debate, it's partially Lundqvist on the last 2 goals, and it's partially the team. When you're not scoring many goals every goal against is analyzed even more. But at the same time imo the second goal was a nice pass from Kesler but Hank has to stop that. The last goal again why is MS able to get the rebound and score, but Hank has to do a better job. If the team's scoring you can survive those incidents but since the team isn't everything is being nitpicked around here, just my humble opinion.
Sure, Hank's not blameless. He's an integral part of the team, and the team is struggling. It's just absolutely absurd to say that we lost last night because of him.

__________________

It's just pain.
nyr2k2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 11:24 AM
  #927
GeorgeHamiltonsTan
Registered User
 
GeorgeHamiltonsTan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,232
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
Fixed.

Cally is FAR more talented than Jed. He has a good shot, and good offensive instincts, neither of which Ortmeyer is even CLOSE to having.
yet jed has more goals than cally right now...yes its gotten THAT bad for cally this season.

GeorgeHamiltonsTan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 11:24 AM
  #928
Mjollnir9*
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Frankfurt
Country: Germany
Posts: 241
vCash: 500
Rozsival is BRUTAL! Seriously, can we just dump him already... He is making Redden look good.

Mjollnir9* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 11:26 AM
  #929
blue2noise
Registered User
 
blue2noise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,487
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Overconfidence. He tried to send it over their heads and failed. Bad mistake.
How can a guy that sucks that bad be confident in anything?

It's lack of effort. Throwing the puck out is the easy play. Pinning it and taking the hit is the hard play.

blue2noise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 11:28 AM
  #930
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 21,162
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
When are people going to stop judging players by their salary? The fact is they're all overpaid.
Higher salary=higher expectations.

higher expectations=higher scrutiny


I hate it when people say "don't look at the salary!" Baloney. You're damn right you look at the salary. I own my own company, if i have an employee who is being paid more money, i hold him to a higher standard than the grunt who does all the crap work nobody else wants to. i expect more productivity, and more of a contribution to my company to make them profitable. I didn't hire that expensive guy to do the same work the grunt level guys do, only to pay him 3 or 4 times more... i hired him to add something unique, that i couldnt get from a grunt being paid minimum wage. if he doesn't bring that to the team, then he would be fired.

I don't go...well, let me ignore what he is making and just judge his body of work in some arbitrary manner. No...your salary is most definitely directly correlated to your level of production. It's why I don't really have a problem with Dan Girardi as much as other ppl...the guy is being paid roughly what he deserves. It's why I have such a big problem right now with Drury. His salary is not proportionate to his on-ice contribution, and as such he deserves all the negative comments he gets. If he were being paid 1.5 million dollars a year, i guarantee you 95% of the people complaining wouldn't say much at all about him.

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 11:30 AM
  #931
Hollywood Hulk Hogan
nWo 4 Life Brother
 
Hollywood Hulk Hogan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bloomfield, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,656
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Hollywood Hulk Hogan
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Sure, Hank's not blameless. He's an integral part of the team, and the team is struggling. It's just absolutely absurd to say that we lost last night because of him.
I agree 100%, too many penalties, failure to score on the power play, a lousy 1st period, blown defensive coverages.

Hollywood Hulk Hogan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 11:32 AM
  #932
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 21,162
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue2noise View Post
How about keeping the puck pinned in the corner and waiting for help instead of just throwing it at three guys?
that was a reaction play..999 times out of 1000 that is the right play to do...the problem is NOBODY was where they should have been on that play...you never make a change in that situation, and the first place you go is to the boards to get that pass...players were skating all willy nilly there...it was a terrible play by the team around Redden...i really don't fault him for that...when you're under pressure in the situation where he was, where you're more than likely going to get smashed into oblivion and the guy is going to steal the puck from you, it's really tough not to just throw it up the boards to a teammate, or to where a teammate should be. youre coached to do those things, send it up the boards...use the boards...never up the middle...yadda yadda yadda...i have a hard time blaming redden there...instead i blame the team for making that change..it was a terrible time to change.

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 11:41 AM
  #933
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,655
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Higher salary=higher expectations.

higher expectations=higher scrutiny
That's where things fall apart. Salary is not going to raise someone's ability of performace just expectations.

Prior to coming here, Drury averaged 58 a season. In is two years here, he had 58 points and 56 points (both basically as a third line center). How is his salary supposed to change what has been average seasons for him?

Ditto for Reden. He's been decling since the lockout. How is his contract supposed to reverse that trend?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
I hate it when people say "don't look at the salary!" Baloney. You're damn right you look at the salary. I own my own company, if i have an employee who is being paid more money, i hold him to a higher standard than the grunt who does all the crap work nobody else wants to.i expect more productivity, and more of a contribution to my company to make them profitable. I didn't hire that expensive guy to do the same work the grunt level guys do, only to pay him 3 or 4 times more..
Would you expect the grunt to improve his abilities just because you would choose to pay him more?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
I don't go...well, let me ignore what he is making and just judge his body of work in some arbitrary manner.
No arbitrary manner. If the guy performed the way he did before you gave him the huge raise, that falls on you you gave him that money when that employee demonstrated exactly what he is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
No...your salary is most definitely directly correlated to your level of production.
When you deal with an employee who has a contract, the fact is you're paying for what he's done.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
It's why I don't really have a problem with Dan Girardi as much as other ppl...the guy is being paid roughly what he deserves. It's why I have such a big problem right now with Drury. His salary is not proportionate to his on-ice contribution, and as such he deserves all the negative comments he gets. If he were being paid 1.5 million dollars a year, i guarantee you 95% of the people complaining wouldn't say much at all about him.
So if the Rangers turn around and give him a 4M, would you expect all the sudden become a 50 plus point guy just because he's being paid as such? Or would that be your mistake because the guy is what he is.

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 11:48 AM
  #934
Fitzy
All Is Well
 
Fitzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 20,063
vCash: 500
Seriously. Amen. All people do is whine abotu contracts during the season. That **** is fine in the offseason where it might actually affect something, but the bellyaching of "Redden and Rozy together could buy us Kovalchuk" is garbage. Analyze the players performance, not their performance as a function of their salary.

Fitzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 11:48 AM
  #935
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 21,162
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
That's where things fall apart. Salary is not going to raise someone's ability of performace just expectations.

Prior to coming here, Drury averaged 58 a season. In is two years here, he had 58 points and 56 points (both basically as a third line center). How is his salary supposed to change what has been average seasons for him?

Ditto for Reden. He's been decling since the lockout. How is his contract supposed to reverse that trend?




Would you expect the grunt to improve his abilities just because you would choose to pay him more?



No arbitrary manner. If the guy performed the way he did before you gave him the huge raise, that falls on you you gave him that money when that employee demonstrated exactly what he is.



When you deal with an employee who has a contract, the fact is you're paying for what he's done.




So if the Rangers turn around and give him a 4M, would you expect all the sudden become a 50 plus point guy just because he's being paid as such? Or would that be your mistake because the guy is what he is.
you seem to be under the impression that only Sather is to be blamed for giving him that money. I'm sorry , but I dont see it that way. You come to a city as a high ticket free agent, there are expectations. Period. You know that coming in. You dont sign a 7 million dollar a year contract and expect that performing at a 20 goal level is what you need to do. The season before he signed his contract he scored 37 goals. That is what we wanted/expected when we got him. 37 goals, some clutch ability, etc.

He's regressed BADLY since we signed him. That falls on him.

Same with Blowmez...he was 2 seasons removed from a 35 goal season, and thats why he got paid the way he did...

right or wrong, that is what they were paid for, and they weren't able to perform.

Drurys goal scoring numbers have tailed off significantly since that season in Buffalo...if he was scoring 35-40 goals, people wouldnt care...and he DID score that much the season he got his contract...

it's funny how people seem to perform during walk years....

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 11:50 AM
  #936
blue2noise
Registered User
 
blue2noise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,487
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
That **** is fine in the offseason where it might actually affect something, but the bellyaching of "Redden and Rozy together could buy us Kovalchuk" is garbage. Analyze the players performance, not their performance as a function of their salary.
Okay. They both are small, soft and suck horribly. Can I have Kovalchuk now?

blue2noise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 11:51 AM
  #937
blue2noise
Registered User
 
blue2noise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,487
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post

it's funny how people seem to perform during walk years....
unless it's our guy...Higgins

blue2noise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 11:53 AM
  #938
Fitzy
All Is Well
 
Fitzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 20,063
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue2noise View Post
Okay. They both are small, soft and suck horribly. Can I have Kovalchuk now?
Well there is the slight problem that Kovalchuk wasnt a UFA during the year they were signed. In fact, he has neven been a UFA. Whine about Hossa, I suppose.

Fitzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 11:56 AM
  #939
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,655
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
you seem to be under the impression that only Sather is to be blamed for giving him that money. I'm sorry , but I dont see it that way. You come to a city as a high ticket free agent, there are expectations. Period. You know that coming in. You dont sign a 7 million dollar a year contract and expect that performing at a 20 goal level is what you need to do. The season before he signed his contract he scored 37 goals. That is what we wanted/expected when we got him. 37 goals, some clutch ability, etc.

He's regressed BADLY since we signed him. That falls on him.

Same with Blowmez...he was 2 seasons removed from a 35 goal season, and thats why he got paid the way he did...

right or wrong, that is what they were paid for, and they weren't able to perform.

Drurys goal scoring numbers have tailed off significantly since that season in Buffalo...if he was scoring 35-40 goals, people wouldnt care...and he DID score that much the season he got his contract...

it's funny how people seem to perform during walk years....
How has a guy who basically done what he's done his entire career regressed?

Any hope that a larger salary is going to change what a player is is fool-hearty. Scott Gomez's 33 goal season was the exception, not the rule. If you expected to pay him more and he would magically turn into that guy, you set yourself up for disappointment.

Is Lundqvist a better goalie now than when he was the first two seasons because of his salary?

You have ignored my questions.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 12:05 PM
  #940
blue2noise
Registered User
 
blue2noise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,487
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Well there is the slight problem that Kovalchuk wasnt a UFA during the year they were signed. In fact, he has neven been a UFA. Whine about Hossa, I suppose.
He will be in July but we wont be able to sign him. Why?
Redden and Roszival

blue2noise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 12:05 PM
  #941
OverTheCap
Registered User
 
OverTheCap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,050
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
you seem to be under the impression that only Sather is to be blamed for giving him that money. I'm sorry , but I dont see it that way. You come to a city as a high ticket free agent, there are expectations. Period. You know that coming in. You dont sign a 7 million dollar a year contract and expect that performing at a 20 goal level is what you need to do. The season before he signed his contract he scored 37 goals. That is what we wanted/expected when we got him. 37 goals, some clutch ability, etc.

He's regressed BADLY since we signed him. That falls on him.

Same with Blowmez...he was 2 seasons removed from a 35 goal season, and thats why he got paid the way he did...

right or wrong, that is what they were paid for, and they weren't able to perform.

Drurys goal scoring numbers have tailed off significantly since that season in Buffalo...if he was scoring 35-40 goals, people wouldnt care...and he DID score that much the season he got his contract...

it's funny how people seem to perform during walk years....
The thing is, Drury's 37 goal season was an aberration. He scored 30 goals the year before but was always a 20-goal scorer before then. Drury benefited from playing on a stacked, high offense team.

Drury may have regressed since his 2006-2007 season, but his stats the past 2 seasons reflect his career average. While Drury does have to take responsibility for poor play, a lot of this falls on Sather.

As you said, it's funny how people seem to perform during walk years... maybe Sather should have taken this into account when signing him. Drury scored 30 or more goals only twice in his career. It's not unreasonable to think that there was a possibility he wasn't going to score 30 goals once he came to the Rangers. The "regression" back to Drury's career average of scoring around 23 goals per season was not unforeseeable.

OverTheCap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 12:09 PM
  #942
Fitzy
All Is Well
 
Fitzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 20,063
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue2noise View Post
He will be in July but we wont be able to sign him. Why?
Redden and Roszival
No, we wont be able to sign him because we will be close to the cap. You can say that about Drury, Lundqvist, and Gaborik as well. Even if we were to deal them they would need to be replaced by somebody, and until Sanguinetti proves he is ready to play full NHL minutes, I dont think they're moving.

Fitzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 12:33 PM
  #943
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 30,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
No, we wont be able to sign him because we will be close to the cap. You can say that about Drury, Lundqvist, and Gaborik as well. Even if we were to deal them they would need to be replaced by somebody, and until Sanguinetti proves he is ready to play full NHL minutes, I dont think they're moving.
Sanguinetti, Sauer, Mcdonagh and Heikenen will all challenge for spots next spring training. With the skill-level in that group, there had better be at least one spot open for them to fight over. If this organization wants to continue moving in the right direction they need to continue producing their own talent and allowing it time to grow accordingly, and that means living with the rookie mistakes in the NHL while they gain experience.

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 12:59 PM
  #944
ThirdEye
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 11,671
vCash: 500
It's kind of scary that Gaborik has more goals than Callahan, Higgins, Drury, Avery, and Dubinsky combined.

Can you imagine if we still had Gomez and his 2 goals this season?

ThirdEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 01:20 PM
  #945
GeorgeHamiltonsTan
Registered User
 
GeorgeHamiltonsTan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,232
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
The thing is, Drury's 37 goal season was an aberration. He scored 30 goals the year before but was always a 20-goal scorer before then. Drury benefited from playing on a stacked, high offense team.

Drury may have regressed since his 2006-2007 season, but his stats the past 2 seasons reflect his career average. While Drury does have to take responsibility for poor play, a lot of this falls on Sather.

As you said, it's funny how people seem to perform during walk years... maybe Sather should have taken this into account when signing him. Drury scored 30 or more goals only twice in his career. It's not unreasonable to think that there was a possibility he wasn't going to score 30 goals once he came to the Rangers. The "regression" back to Drury's career average of scoring around 23 goals per season was not unforeseeable.

and hes on pace to barely break 10 goals, how is his performance thus far considered anything other than a regression? as far as im concerned that putting it lightly

GeorgeHamiltonsTan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 01:24 PM
  #946
silverfish
Player Usage
 
silverfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Standing on a Train
Country: United States
Posts: 19,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
Sanguinetti, Sauer, Mcdonagh and Heikenen will all challenge for spots next spring training. With the skill-level in that group, there had better be at least one spot open for them to fight over. If this organization wants to continue moving in the right direction they need to continue producing their own talent and allowing it time to grow accordingly, and that means living with the rookie mistakes in the NHL while they gain experience.
There will be.

Girardi's spot.

silverfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 01:34 PM
  #947
OverTheCap
Registered User
 
OverTheCap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,050
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHamiltonsTan View Post
and hes on pace to barely break 10 goals, how is his performance thus far considered anything other than a regression? as far as im concerned that putting it lightly
I'm pretty sure Drury got off to the same slow start last year yet miraculously somehow managed to break the 20-goal barrier. Not sure if he'll do it this year though. Hard to say he's regressed yet when he pulled the same crap last year.

The fact of the matter is that Drury averaged around 21-22 goals per season discounting those 2 career years in Buffalo. Sather's a moron for letting those 2 years dictate a $7 million contract.

OverTheCap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 01:37 PM
  #948
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 24,949
vCash: 50
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
I'm pretty sure Drury got off to the same slow start last year yet miraculously somehow managed to break the 20-goal barrier. Not sure if he'll do it this year though. Hard to say he's regressed yet when he pulled the same crap last year.

The fact of the matter is that Drury averaged around 21-22 goals per season discounting those 2 career years in Buffalo. Sather's a moron for letting those 2 years dictate a $7 million contract.
I posted in a different thread that he had the exact same numbers through 13 games last year. Not sure what he was at through 15 but it's obviously going to be close.

nyr2k2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 02:42 PM
  #949
TomLaidlaw
Registered User
 
TomLaidlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Transylvania
Country: Romania
Posts: 3,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
that was a reaction play..999 times out of 1000 that is the right play to do...the problem is NOBODY was where they should have been on that play...you never make a change in that situation, and the first place you go is to the boards to get that pass...players were skating all willy nilly there...it was a terrible play by the team around Redden...i really don't fault him for that...when you're under pressure in the situation where he was, where you're more than likely going to get smashed into oblivion and the guy is going to steal the puck from you, it's really tough not to just throw it up the boards to a teammate, or to where a teammate should be. youre coached to do those things, send it up the boards...use the boards...never up the middle...yadda yadda yadda...i have a hard time blaming redden there...instead i blame the team for making that change..it was a terrible time to change.
I disagree. A rookie makes that mistake, a vet like Redden shouldn't. Redden had his head up and saw he didn't have an outlet and saw the Canuck player there and still handed it to him. His teammates put him in a tough spot by changing when they did but he did the worst thing possible. He should have have kept it in his skates and pinned it on the board and waited for help. Look at Reddens reaction when the puck goes in the net, he knows he made a mistake. During the intermission Sullivan was asked directly about the goal and he said the same thing. He was brutally honest and said Redden can't make that pass there, its the worst thing you can do. Sullivan was 100% right and I am sure Redden himself would agree. Its an unfortunate mistake that cost us a goal, it happens. The alarming thing is that recently these mental blunders appear to be happening quite often.

TomLaidlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2009, 03:05 PM
  #950
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 16,549
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHamiltonsTan View Post
and hes on pace to barely break 10 goals, how is his performance thus far considered anything other than a regression? as far as im concerned that putting it lightly
And you really think Drury is going to wind up with less than 10 goals? C'mon, use your head.

He'll be right in the neighborhood of 20 goals/50 points again....and people will continue to complain about his contract. Rinse and repeat.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:07 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.