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Redden is solving "the Redden problem" for us...

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01-30-2010, 04:20 PM
  #1
Ola
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Redden is solving "the Redden problem" for us...

...one of the most interesting stats to follow for the rest of the season will be Wade Redden's point stats.

The NYR can "afford" to bury their mistakes in the minors. But Slats can't sign a vet to at 6 year deal and then after 18 month destroy his career.

Still Wade Redden is a MAJOR problem for us. We are paying 6m per for something you could get for 1m per with some luck. You just can't compete in this league with a contract like that. On the contrary you need "bargains" to compete.

BUT, nobody, and I mean nobody -- could fault Glen Sather if he sends a veteran offensive minded D to the minors if that D only scores 17 pts. And thats what Wade Redden is on pace to score right now.

(7/47) * 82 = 17.

Getting rid of a 6m times 4 years cap burden is worth a helluva lot in the game today. I am not getting into comparing it to like a top 3-5th pick in the draft, but I wonder if the cap space isn't worth more...

So pray to god every time Redden steps on the ice that he won't pick up any cheap secondary assists.

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01-30-2010, 04:21 PM
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You're preaching to the choir Ola, can't really say it better myself

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01-30-2010, 04:24 PM
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Can't wait until someone chimes in that he's playing decent defense.

I agree with you though. His numbers are embarrassing. Minor correction though. He's actually only on pace for 12 points (7/47 x 82 = ~12) , not 17

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01-30-2010, 04:25 PM
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Well you said it yourself. What precedent will it set to send a player you signed to the minors? What message does that give to potential free agents? Might mean you will be forced to overpay for free agents even more so in the future.

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01-30-2010, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by GothamRanger View Post
Well you said it yourself. What precedent will it set to send a player you signed to the minors? What message does that give to potential free agents? Might mean you will be forced to overpay for free agents even more so in the future.
It gives them the message that if they suck balls they will be held accountable, not babied like our current crop. This is not a problem at all. Players will want to come to NY. Maybe not as many, but they'll still come here. And plus, we're attracting the wrong kind of players now anyway.

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01-30-2010, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by GothamRanger View Post
Well you said it yourself. What precedent will it set to send a player you signed to the minors? What message does that give to potential free agents? Might mean you will be forced to overpay for free agents even more so in the future.
your making 6M a year.


Thats the message your sending to FA

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01-30-2010, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
Can't wait until someone chimes in that he's playing decent defense.

I agree with you though. His numbers are embarrassing. Minor correction though. He's actually only on pace for 12 points (7/47 x 82 = ~12) , not 17
Even less, no? Didn't Torts bench him a game or two, meaning he won't play 82 games? I can't remember...

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01-30-2010, 04:37 PM
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Even less, no? Didn't Torts bench him a game or two, meaning he won't play 82 games? I can't remember...
Yeah he was benched for 2 games

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01-30-2010, 04:55 PM
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Look also at the games that Redden got his points in:

Tampa Bay W8-2
Dallas W5-2
Columbus W7-2
Toronto W4-1
Toronto W7-2

He only has 1 point in a game that we didn't win by at least 3 goals (Loss to Minnesota)

He only has 3 primary assists on the season

This guy is truly, over the hill

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01-30-2010, 04:55 PM
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Redden could solve the Redden problem by starting to live up to at least 3/4 of his contract. In all honestly I just can't see Sather ending his career by sending him down to Hartford. For what it's worth, Redden has been one valuable player once, he's a good man, you just don't do that. What kind of message we'd send to the league acting like this? A miserable message... And I don't even care about potential future UFAs, the damage would be done already, and the image of the franchise scratched a bit more. Plus we're talking about 23,5M$ and 4 years. We just can't swept that under the carpet and say good riddance, the same way we would for a goon in the last season of his contract.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Redden or Sather, but that scenario is unlikely IMO.

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01-30-2010, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by GothamRanger View Post
Well you said it yourself. What precedent will it set to send a player you signed to the minors? What message does that give to potential free agents? Might mean you will be forced to overpay for free agents even more so in the future.
And what message does it send that he sticks around? That if you sign here for a lot of money that you can coast with no punishment?

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01-30-2010, 05:00 PM
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as i mentioned on another message board.....Redden's face looks very strung-out looking. His appearance seems to have changed since he first signed with NYR. His eyes are very hollow and on some nights you'll notice dark circles along with bags under his eyes. Not sure if its stress related...but he doesn't look right to me. He's seems to have lost weight, looks very weak and not with it at times.

any thoughts?

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01-30-2010, 05:07 PM
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Yeah, free agents have really shied away from signing in NY after they watched Darius Kasparaitis playing Wolfpack games and cashing his $3.5M check.

Redden has four years after this season. I don't think we'll see him banished this early but if he's playing like a 6/7 defense man in his last 2-2.5 seasons of his contract, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities that he skates the remainder of that contract in Hartford.

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01-30-2010, 05:09 PM
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#6 is earning $8M in actual dollars this year at a $6.5M cap hit.

If he finishes the season with the 12 points he's on pace for, he will have earned $666,666 per point.

Maybe it's a curse. #6, $6M cap hit, 6(x2) points, $666,666 per point?

Edit: 6 year deal.


Last edited by Ollie Queen: 01-30-2010 at 05:16 PM.
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01-30-2010, 05:09 PM
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i've mentioned this in other threads but...
i really think there's a good chance he won't make the team out of camp next year. its gonna be a put up or shut up camp for sanguinetti and heikkenen and if they truly outplay redden, which i believe has a good enough chance of happening, nobody can fault tortorella for cutting him.

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01-30-2010, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
...one of the most interesting stats to follow for the rest of the season will be Wade Redden's point stats.

The NYR can "afford" to bury their mistakes in the minors. But Slats can't sign a vet to at 6 year deal and then after 18 month destroy his career.

Still Wade Redden is a MAJOR problem for us. We are paying 6m per for something you could get for 1m per with some luck. You just can't compete in this league with a contract like that. On the contrary you need "bargains" to compete.

BUT, nobody, and I mean nobody -- could fault Glen Sather if he sends a veteran offensive minded D to the minors if that D only scores 17 pts. And thats what Wade Redden is on pace to score right now.

(7/47) * 82 = 17.

Getting rid of a 6m times 4 years cap burden is worth a helluva lot in the game today. I am not getting into comparing it to like a top 3-5th pick in the draft, but I wonder if the cap space isn't worth more...

So pray to god every time Redden steps on the ice that he won't pick up any cheap secondary assists.
It's obvious and it's also one of the best posts I've read on the subject. I am afraid it may not be obvious enough yet to our GM.

To quote: 'We are paying 6m per (actually 6.5) for something you could get for 1m per with some luck. You just can't compete in a league with a contract like that. On the contrary you need "bargains" to compete.'--which is exactly what I think and which in my minds puts our captain in the same category as Redden. The bargain players we have on our team of which there are not that many--only Del Zotto (maybe Anisimov) really springs to mind can't make up for the bad deals that have made us a mediocrity.

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01-30-2010, 05:11 PM
  #17
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Well you said it yourself. What precedent will it set to send a player you signed to the minors? What message does that give to potential free agents?
Seriously, if there are future UFA's who are worried about their careers tanking and subsequently being sent to the minors because of their expensive contracts, it means we should STAY THE HELL AWAY from these types of players from the get go....

No player who actually has his game together is going to look at Wade Redden being buried in the AHL and be deterred from playing for the Rangers...

Why should we hurt our team cap wise for the next 4 seasons because future Ranger players might not be happy with demoting a washed up has been to the minors.... Can anyone really feel bad for a guy who's making $6.5 mil a year? I can't....

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01-30-2010, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Kovalchkin71 View Post
#6 is earning $8M in actual dollars this year at a $6.5M cap hit.

If he finishes the season with the 12 points he's on pace for, he will have earned $666,666 per point.

Maybe it's a curse. #6, $6M cap hit, 6(x2) points, $666,666 per point?
6 years contract... Evil...

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01-30-2010, 05:16 PM
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If he were getting demoted this season, it'd have happened by now.

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01-30-2010, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
He's actually only on pace for 12 points (7/47 x 82 = ~12) , not 17
Should I laugh or cry?

That is just flat out disgusting though. Sather is some piece of work huh... jesus christ.

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01-30-2010, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Blazephr View Post
as i mentioned on another message board.....Redden's face looks very strung-out looking. His appearance seems to have changed since he first signed with NYR. His eyes are very hollow and on some nights you'll notice dark circles along with bags under his eyes. Not sure if its stress related...but he doesn't look right to me. He's seems to have lost weight, looks very weak and not with it at times.

any thoughts?
He's addicted to cocaine?

That was the big rumor flying around Ottawa, hence why they tried to move him twice. Him, Spezza, McGrattan, Emery, Heatley...

Of course, they wouldn't move Heater or Spezz, but they moved (or tried to move) who they could.

Must be real hard to find the stuff in NY...

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01-30-2010, 05:30 PM
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People have to remember when the Rangers signed him he was the answer to the powerplay woes and transition game. He was signed to QB the powerplay and make that "great first pass" out of the zone.

With that in mind, he has been a total failure. He hasnt sprung anyone for breakaways or been above average in leading the breakout. He has been a turnover machine. He hasnt been able to get any shots through, and is pretty much a zero threat from the blueline - And most importantly - he hasnt even BEEN on either of the PP units, let alone be the QB he was signed to be.

THE worst signing in the history of the Rangers, hands down.

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01-30-2010, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
You just caThe bargain players we have on our team of which there are not that many--only Del Zotto (maybe Anisimov) really springs to mind can't make up for the bad deals that have made us a mediocrity.
Am I the only one who thinks Dubinsky is a steal at his cap hit? He's third in scoring despite playing ~10 less games than everyone else, third in PK time on a top 5 unit and wins over 50% of his face offs while skating mostly on the top line against the other teams best center. All that for $1.85M... sounds like quite the bargain to me. How many players in this league do all that while maintaining a .70 PPG pace with that cap hit?

People whined about him looking for a raise over the summer and some posters are still complaining about him asking for a raise.

Obviously Prospal is a bargain too...

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01-30-2010, 05:33 PM
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If he were getting demoted this season, it'd have happened by now.
No, he won't be sent down during the season. But as TheHotRock said, he could very well be cut next training camp. That's the time to do it IMO. You do it now, it's for cap reasons. If you sign players in the offseason to where we are over the cap, and then send Redden down to get under the cap, it's the same thing.

If you are already cap compliant and then send him down during training camp, well, it's because he got beat out by another player. That's the "reason" you send him down. The cap savings are a bonus. As long as he's one of our top 6 dmen, it's hard to justify cutting him.

Next year we'll have Sangs, Heik, McD and Sauer all looking for spots. Given Redden's steady decline, it shouldn't be too hard for one or two of them to make the team over him.

The only bad part of that scenario (or potentially good part if Sather is still GM) is that we will have cap space but most of the free agents will be signed by then.

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01-30-2010, 05:40 PM
  #25
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People have to remember when the Rangers signed him he was the answer to the powerplay woes and transition game. He was signed to QB the powerplay and make that "great first pass" out of the zone.

With that in mind, he has been a total failure. He hasnt sprung anyone for breakaways or been above average in leading the breakout. He has been a turnover machine. He hasnt been able to get any shots through, and is pretty much a zero threat from the blueline - And most importantly - he hasnt even BEEN on either of the PP units, let alone be the QB he was signed to be.

THE worst signing in the history of the Rangers, hands down.
Just for information, here's his TOI & points on the PP over the last seasons.

2009-2010, 0:11 (nth on team), 1 points (0+1)
2008-2009, 3:37 (2nd on team), 8 points (2+6)
2007-2008, 3:48 (4th on team), 16 points (4+12)
2006-2007, 4:33 (5th on team), 19 points (4+19)

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