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The "All Things Lecavalier" Thread - Rumors, Speculation, Proposals

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Old
11-04-2009, 11:39 PM
  #51
SkerZ
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We would have to give up way to much for him...not going to happen.

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11-04-2009, 11:39 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
----With Tampa:
Dubinsky
Callahan
Girardi
Anisimov
Drury
Doyle
1st

Lecavalier
Ashton


***We keep***
Staal
Del Zotto
Gilroy
Sanguinetti
Grachev
Stepan
Kreider
Werek
McDonagh

I am NOT willing to give away any of them. That's the core to build with.
You're willing to dump Callahan? No thanks. Guys like that you just can't find. He's heart and soul every shift against every player - even 6' 9" Chara. No way he's in the mix. AA, too. I don't include him in any deal. Too much potential and not much $. He's on the top line or 2nd line before the season hits the halfway mark. Permanently.

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Old
11-04-2009, 11:45 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
You're willing to dump Callahan? No thanks. Guys like that you just can't find. He's heart and soul every shift against every player - even 6' 9" Chara. No way he's in the mix. AA, too. I don't include him in any deal. Too much potential and not much $. He's on the top line or 2nd line before the season hits the halfway mark. Permanently.
I'd give up Callahan (who is a 3rd line player) for a 40 goal scorer, far before i ever consider Kreider in the conversation.

Kreider >>>>>>>>>> Callahan.

Only reason i bring that up is because Kreider's name was mentioned in the thread.

Callahan is a heart and soul player, he is 100% effort... unfortunately that is all he is. He doesn't have the skill set to make him anything more then a 3rd line role player.

Grachev, Kreider, Werek, Stepan... all not in the NHL and all are already >>> Callahan. Due to a combination of skills and size.

Callahan is greatly overrated around here.

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Old
11-04-2009, 11:50 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I'd give up Callahan (who is a 3rd line player) for a 40 goal scorer, far before i ever consider Kreider in the conversation.

Kreider >>>>>>>>>> Callahan.

Only reason i bring that up is because Kreider's name was mentioned in the thread.

Callahan is a heart and soul player, he is 100% effort... unfortunately that is all he is. He doesn't have the skill set to make him anything more then a 3rd line role player.

Grachev, Kreider, Werek, Stepan... all not in the NHL and all are already >>> Callahan. Due to a combination of skills and size.

Callahan is greatly overrated around here.
I think you greatly underrate what a guy like Callahan brings to the table. Forget stats, goals, assists, etc... The guy is a leader by example and has to be inspiring to his teammates. You can't buy that. He's a top six forward without question. The value of a guy like that transcends statistics. He didn't get 2+ million/season because he scored 20 goals.

Ask Gretzky how many cups his stats won when Messier was elsewhere.

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Old
11-05-2009, 12:00 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
I think you greatly underrate what a guy like Callahan brings to the table. Forget stats, goals, assists, etc... The guy is a leader by example and has to be inspiring to his teammates. You can't buy that. He's a top six forward without question. The value of a guy like that transcends statistics. He didn't get 2+ million/season because he scored 20 goals.

Ask Gretzky how many cups his stats won when Messier was elsewhere.
He is not a top 6 without question... you absolutely have to question.

And you can't forget production.

If you forget production, you get a 3rd-4th line role player.

If you want to talk about a top 6 player, then he needs to produce like a top 6 player.

Top 6 players put the puck in the net, they set up guys for goals, they create goals, they impact the game.

Callahan does not have the skills to impact the game beyond his effort.

He put up points in the last half of the season last year playing with (extremely underrated around here) Gomez.

If Callahan were as good as his stats said last year, he would be doing it without that playmaking center... he isn't. Because he is not a top 6 player.

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11-05-2009, 12:04 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
I think you greatly underrate what a guy like Callahan brings to the table. Forget stats, goals, assists, etc... The guy is a leader by example and has to be inspiring to his teammates. You can't buy that. He's a top six forward without question. The value of a guy like that transcends statistics. He didn't get 2+ million/season because he scored 20 goals.

Ask Gretzky how many cups his stats won when Messier was elsewhere.
Are you really implying that Messier was a role player?

Messier was the second overall scorer in the history of the NHL.

He reached 100+ points 6 times. He scored 40+ 4 times. He scored 50 goals. He scored 30+ 11 times. He scored 20+ 16 times.

Callahan scored 20 goals... once. And there is a VERY LARGE probability that will be the only time he does that in his career.

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Old
11-05-2009, 01:15 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Why would they settle for late picks when they are in a position to get better and more assets than that?
Because trading Vinny is predicated on a desire to rid themselves of his onerous contract and value is secondary.

The Rangers are probably the only NHL team that can give the Lightning a few young guys to hang their hats on (like Dubi) and meaningful salary relief. For all the grief we give to Redden and Drury's contracts, those financial commitments pale in comparison to Vinny's at least in terms of obligation (he's owed something like $80 mil over the next 8 years). The Rangers may not have the most talent to push into the center of the table, but they're not going to ask for the Lightning to take back a burdensome contract. For a team like the lightning, that might end up being enough to sway them. Whereas elsewhere they may get more "assets" but come away with a greater financial burden (as in, you take one of our headaches) they're immediately getting out from under with Higgins' expiring deal, Rozsival is actually worth the money he's making, he just has to go to balance salary. They're out from under his contract in 3 years rather than 8 and, well, the more I think about it, the more sense it makes.

And I'll say it for the 9,000th time, we do not have enough to meet what should be the fair market value for LeCavalier, we have the ideal assets if moving him is financially driven.

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Old
11-05-2009, 02:04 AM
  #58
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Rozsival
Dubinsky
Sanguinetti
Stepan

Lecavalier
Ranger


Avery-Lecavalier-Gaborik
Prospal-Drury-Kotalik
Higgins-Anisimov-Callahan
Brashier-Boyle-Byers




Honestly, I think that's a pretty realistic trade proposal in terms of value- maybe with some kind of pick exchange. Sather would obviously have to make it work within the cap.. but I wouldn't necessarily be too opposed to a trade of this caliber. It would certainly go a long way in rounding out the forward group and I think the Rangers have plenty of prospects in the cupboards. But the concern would have to lie in the defense.. would there be enough money to resign Staal and Girardi.. would a defense of Staal/Girardi, Redden/Gilroy, and Del Zotto/Sauer be good enough this year and next for the Rangers to actually compete? I don't kknow.. but it's damn fun to speculate.

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Old
11-05-2009, 02:25 AM
  #59
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Grachev and redden for vinny

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11-05-2009, 05:11 AM
  #60
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I'd be willing to be Vinny doesn't want to play for Torts again and Torts doesn't want Vinny either.

It's about as likely as the fans around here to stop capitalizing the C in Lecavalier.

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Old
11-05-2009, 05:11 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANTC View Post
Grachev and redden for vinny
Id rather keep Grachev and live with Redden's god-awful contrac

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Old
11-05-2009, 05:12 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t3hg00se View Post
That contract is terrible. But if Torts is here for the long haul, it will be worth it.

I'd be willing to bend over backwards for Vinny.

Look at how Prospal plays for Torts, Vinny played the best hockey of his life under Torts, and would more than likely, like Prospal, return to form. Vinny would be our bonafide 1c for the next 5 years, at least, before having to step down to a 2c position.

This is a guy who needs a coaching change, and a trade. Vinny on Broadway is something that can propel this team.

I'd be willing to do

Roszival/Drury
Higgins
Dubinsky
Sanguinetti
Williams
2nd

Lecavlier
When do you ever see that much going one way for one player? No way in hell Tampa wants to take on that much salary

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Old
11-05-2009, 05:16 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
----With Tampa:
Dubinsky
Callahan
Girardi
Anisimov
Drury
Doyle
1st

Lecavalier
Ashton


***We keep***
Staal
Del Zotto
Gilroy
Sanguinetti
Grachev
Stepan
Kreider
Werek
McDonagh

I am NOT willing to give away any of them. That's the core to build with.
This trade's even more ridiculious. You just gave away half our starting lineup.

The only reason to bring Vinny in to begin with would be to help in the shortterm and make a serious run with the team we've got. He's not getting any younger.

I also don't understand how you think it'd be fine to trade away both Dubinsky AND Anisimov AND "Doyle" (I'm guessing you mean Boyle). Is Lecavalier going to be the 1st 3rd, and 4th line center?

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Old
11-05-2009, 06:07 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
You're not getting him without giving up one of MDZ, Gilroy, Callahan, Staal, Dubinsky or Grachev. And then go from there.
I'd have no problem with a deal that included BOTH Callahan and Gilroy. Sanguinetti would replace Gilroy, and you've got Lisin and Kotalik on RW.

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Old
11-05-2009, 06:16 AM
  #65
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id much rather wait to sign kovalchuk next summer

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Old
11-05-2009, 07:11 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Id rather keep Grachev and live with Redden's god-awful contrac
That is the most idiotic post I have ever seen in my life.

This would never happen - but you wouldn't give up Grachev for Lecavlier, when you are also losing Reddens contract?

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11-05-2009, 07:14 AM
  #67
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I know this is "hockey's future," but one more fan who says he wouldn't give up Kreider who has never excelled out of High School or Werek over Dubi/Callihan is insane...

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Old
11-05-2009, 07:18 AM
  #68
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Vinny has an 11 year contract. His salaries for this season and the next 6 seasons are $10 million per. Vinny's production is not going to match his contract. He has been terrible this season. The Rangers should assume that contract even if TB was willing to trade him for Redden and Drury.

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Old
11-05-2009, 08:19 AM
  #69
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Cally is a third liner, can we put this to rest yet?

And no one knows if Kreider will even ome close to the NHL yet. Not every high pick we draft is "untouchable"

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11-05-2009, 08:22 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Kreider >>>>>>>>>> Callahan.

That's a huge call considering Kreider is yet to play a game in NHL.

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Old
11-05-2009, 09:41 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post

Grachev, Kreider, Werek, Stepan... all not in the NHL and all are already >>> Callahan. Due to a combination of skills and size.
This is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.

4 guys that have 0 points and 0 NHL games under their belts are not ">>>" a guy that scored 20+ goals last year, plays key minutes offensively and defensively, and is an assistant captain of an NHL club.

Not one of them could step in tonight and take over Callahan's role on this team. Maybe 4 years from now, those players will be better than Callahan. Maybe 4 years from now they'll all be struggling in the minors or playing overseas.

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11-05-2009, 10:34 AM
  #72
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How realistic is it for you to see Lecavalier in NY in a not too far future?
Very much. I predict he will be Ranger soon. All Renney's players could be be traded for him: Dubi, Cali, Staal, Girardi, Drury plus some prospects may also be considered. Vinny is not happy with Stamkos and he tanks it, IMO, involuntary. Tochet is no Torts to get him straight.

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11-05-2009, 10:56 AM
  #73
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I don't know guys. That contract really is a monster. And last time I checked Vinny is not Ilya Kovalchuk.

This could be Gomez/Drury/Redden all over again. I do not want to be handcuffed by bad contracts anymore. If I'm bringing anyone to this team for a big, long-term contract it's got to be a bonafide gamebreaker like Kovalchuk. That's why we got Gaborik - when healthy he is a bonafide superstar. I think we should stick to that line of thinking. The only big contracts we take on should be as close to sure bets as possible.

We can't gamble with a contract that big and that long. Bob Gainey is not going to bail us out of all our bad long term contracts - although he actually might if it were Vinny...

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Old
11-05-2009, 11:00 AM
  #74
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And last time I checked Vinny is not Ilya Kovalchuk.
He is better. All Kovalchuk can do is to snipe.

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Old
11-05-2009, 11:01 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
You're willing to dump Callahan? No thanks. Guys like that you just can't find. He's heart and soul every shift against every player - even 6' 9" Chara. No way he's in the mix. AA, too. I don't include him in any deal. Too much potential and not much $. He's on the top line or 2nd line before the season hits the halfway mark. Permanently.
Callahan is quickly climbing the ranks of 'Most Overrated Ranger.'

Although a very special poster has all but locked up that award for Enver Lisin.

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