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Old
11-05-2009, 01:10 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by McEwen View Post
Payroll means ****. That goes for any sport. It's about getting your team to buy into a system and translate that system to wins.
Oh sorry, They huge corralation between winning and payroll must just be a fluke, I mean it is statistally proven basically, but the math must be wrong.

$ money buys wins. simple.

The thing is in sports it is basically defying odds that makes winning so good. If there are two teams in a league and you win once every 4 years. are you going to be a happy fan.

Money buys better odds, in order for any one to be happy a team must defy the odds. Now the yankees still did this year, but as a whole. What exaclty are they accomplishing?

sorry, nothing is the answer. that ruins the sport, I don't blame the yanks, that is just reality and the MLB has to wake up and realize hey. we shoudl fix this.

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11-05-2009, 01:15 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by rprice92 View Post
one stupid thing about mlb, is that they play 162 games per season and yet only allow 4 teams per league in the playoffs..

shorten the season and let more teams in and you get a better playoffs
Exactly. I am baffled at the lack of public initiative to pressure the league for this. Simply from a financial POV, which should interest MLB, it makes 100% sense to have 4-8 more teams hosting playoff games, not to mention the boost in fan support this would create.

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11-05-2009, 01:16 PM
  #103
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If money bought championships, the Yankees would have dominated the 1980s. The Marlins would have never won once, let alone twice.

The Yankees cut salary from last season.

The Yankees have the highest percentage of homegrown players in the American League.

The two highest paid team salaries of World Series champions belong to the 2007 Red Sox followed by the 2004 Red Sox.


Anything else need to be debunked around here? One thing to hate the Yankees, another to speak on them with false information by part time baseball "fans".

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11-05-2009, 01:17 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
I agree 100%, you are right. however I am not going to cheer for them.

THis guy did a thing a while ago where he correlated payroll to winning. Then he found out just how much each extra million spent should help you win. long story short, every thign else being even, he came up with how ofter each team based on saleries should win the World series. The yankees litterally should win once every 2 years based on how much they spend. THe mets, sox ect came in at about 1 in six years. THe Marlins litterally should win 1 in a 100 years.

REality is the yankees have failed given their budget. When you level the playing feild and take out the handipcap. they fail.


I agree with what you say to an extent but i don't see how they fail if the playing field was somewhat level The Yankees homegrown players are some of the best at their repective positions Jeter, Mariano, Posada, Matsui, Pettite so obviously they've done a good job of developing their own players, the Yankees are not some second rate organization that would fall into mediocrity even if they can't spend as much and they only started to clearly outspend the rest of the league in recent years...... When they won all of their World Series in the late 90s and 2000, they were a team built mostly through homegrown talent and trades and a few big FA signings here and there..... I think in all sports, there is jealousy and hate towards the great all time franchises Habs, Lakers, Yankees, Cowboys etc. That's just how it goes

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11-05-2009, 01:18 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
Oh sorry, They huge corralation between winning and payroll must just be a fluke, I mean it is statistally proven basically, but the math must be wrong.

$ money buys wins. simple.

The thing is in sports it is basically defying odds that makes winning so good. If there are two teams in a league and you win once every 4 years. are you going to be a happy fan.

Money buys better odds, in order for any one to be happy a team must defy the odds. Now the yankees still did this year, but as a whole. What exaclty are they accomplishing?

sorry, nothing is the answer. that ruins the sport, I don't blame the yanks, that is just reality and the MLB has to wake up and realize hey. we shoudl fix this.

In the NHL: Every team practically since post lockout including Edmonton has been near the cap ever since it came into effect. Several teams before the cap era like the Rangers, Toronto and so forth.
$ does not buy wins. Simple.
1 World Series victory in 8 years with their payroll proves you wrong.

Payroll gives a slight advantage. If your team cannot play as a team, they will not win as a team. Payroll means nothing. See Tampa last year in World Series.

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11-05-2009, 01:19 PM
  #106
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People need to try and understand baseball isn't the same as the other sports.
Yet it drives me nuts when people say that they bought a title.
They signed more and better players than anyone else, and the ones they've signed PERFORMED!

GO SOX

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11-05-2009, 01:21 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by oldmanboy View Post
Exactly. I am baffled at the lack of public initiative to pressure the league for this. Simply from a financial POV, which should interest MLB, it makes 100% sense to have 4-8 more teams hosting playoff games, not to mention the boost in fan support this would create.
Baseball is a traditional sport that doesn't change on a whim. It's how fans prefer it. It makes the regular season more important, unlike the NHL where a team with a losing record can make the playoffs. Every single game matters in baseball where the competition is higher to win. You don't win, you don't deserve to compete for the championship.

After 162 games, the last thing MLB needs is some long drawn out 2 month playoffs where pitchers are going to blow out their arms.

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11-05-2009, 01:22 PM
  #108
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I have a whole bunch of things to comment on after reading through this thread and want to be concise as possible.

1. Any pseudo-baseball fan who tries to claim that the Yankees didn't buy the World Series is either an idiot or ignorant. It's one or the other (or both). The Yankees are average (maybe slightly above average) in drafting and development. But don't be fooled, the only reason they seem to do good at bringing up home-grown players is because they never trade prospects to bring in help; they buy it in the off season. Teams like the Phillies (who lost one of their top prospects for Cliff Lee) don't have that luxury.

2. There was nothing 'special' about this team the way there was something special about the Phillies last year. There is no talent or special knowledge required to go out and continually sign the biggest names to the most expensive contracts. My brother could have built a world series team with that pay roll and he can probably only name 20 active major league baseball players.

3. Some people have thrown around random numbers about how much the Yankees spent in the off season on the 'big three' (it wasn't half a billion it was a quarter billion). Some have talked about how it is more than other teams entire rosters. But that's really not what is so stunning. What is shocking is that they spent as much as some franchises could be purchased for!

4. The National League is vastly superior baseball to the American league for two reasons. The first reason is there is no DH which is an abomination and reduces managers to cheer leaders in the AL. The second is the absence of the Yankees. There is all kinds of tradition and excellence in the National League, and it still remains pure as no team can afford to cover up bad decisions like the Yankees. Case in point is Johnny Damon. Any other team in the league would look to give Damon away for free in a trade because of what he is paid for the quality of player he is (average range, pathetic arm, sub. 300 BA, average at best power numbers for a corner outfield). But that doesn't hurt the Yankees as money is irrelevant to the Yankees.

5. The know-nothing loser who compared those of us non-Yankee fans to Flames fans during the 80's is plainly a fool. What the Oilers did was pure. They did not have an entrenched advantage over their competition. In fact, when entering the NHL they had to suffer from the reclamation draft, so one could argue that they were at a disadvantage.

6. There is still nothing worse than Red Sox fans who complain about the 'Evil Empire' when they are almost as bad in every way. Especially those losers who claim to even care about the Red Sox and think Manny was the best LF in Red Sox history all the while not even knowing who Carl Yastrzemski or Ted Williams are.

7. Anything else but a World Series win would prove to show that Joe Girardi is a complete incompetent.

8. The league is in great need of two things: a $170 million salary cap and a fourth round of play-offs while reducing the regular season to a 156 games.

9. The people get a hard on about the 'core four' should stop and think if the Yankees could have even made the play-offs if that was, truly, their 'core'. The answer is no. I hope nobody is dumb enough to try and retort that the 'core four' lead them to the world series win. Sorry, but that was Matsui, A-Rod and Sabathia. What do those four share in common? They were bought.

10. Sport is best when it is pure. The less pure it gets the less gratifying it is to both players and the fans (just look at how Damon reacted to the win last night). The notion that parity is antithetical to sport is perhaps one of the most dim-witted statements I've ever been exposed to (and I've been exposed to some preposterous under-grad jeremiads). Parity (to varying degrees) is a necessity in sport. The absence of parity is the absence of sport; equivalent to tying one boxer's arm behind his back or giving one team's batters four strikes and the other's only three.

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11-05-2009, 01:23 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky Luciano View Post
If money bought championships, the Yankees would have dominated the 1980s. The Marlins would have never won once, let alone twice.

The Yankees cut salary from last season.

The Yankees have the highest percentage of homegrown players in the American League.

The two highest paid team salaries of World Series champions belong to the 2007 Red Sox followed by the 2004 Red Sox.


Anything else need to be debunked around here? One thing to hate the Yankees, another to speak on them with false information by part time baseball "fans".
The yankees also buy homegrown players. there is a lot of mis information here.

in baseball you still need to sign draft picks. the yankees buy players not drafted and ones other teams can't afford to sign.


$ buys winnings, sorry to say anything else is just mis informed.

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11-05-2009, 01:27 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by thome_26 View Post
I have a whole bunch of things to comment on after reading through this thread and want to be concise as possible.

1. Any pseudo-baseball fan who tries to claim that the Yankees didn't buy the World Series is either an idiot or ignorant. It's one or the other (or both). The Yankees are average (maybe slightly above average) in drafting and development. But don't be fooled, the only reason they seem to do good at bringing up home-grown players is because they never trade prospects to bring in help; they buy it in the off season. Teams like the Phillies (who lost one of their top prospects for Cliff Lee) don't have that luxury.

2. There was nothing 'special' about this team the way there was something special about the Phillies last year. There is no talent or special knowledge required to go out and continually sign the biggest names to the most expensive contracts. My brother could have built a world series team with that pay roll and he can probably only name 20 active major league baseball players.

3. Some people have thrown around random numbers about how much the Yankees spent in the off season on the 'big three' (it wasn't half a billion it was a quarter billion). Some have talked about how it is more than other teams entire rosters. But that's really not what is so stunning. What is shocking is that they spent as much as some franchises could be purchased for!

4. The National League is vastly superior baseball to the American league for two reasons. The first reason is there is no DH which is an abomination and reduces managers to cheer leaders in the AL. The second is the absence of the Yankees. There is all kinds of tradition and excellence in the National League, and it still remains pure as no team can afford to cover up bad decisions like the Yankees. Case in point is Johnny Damon. Any other team in the league would look to give Damon away for free in a trade because of what he is paid for the quality of player he is (average range, pathetic arm, sub. 300 BA, average at best power numbers for a corner outfield). But that doesn't hurt the Yankees as money is irrelevant to the Yankees.

5. The know-nothing loser who compared those of us non-Yankee fans to Flames fans during the 80's is plainly a fool. What the Oilers did was pure. They did not have an entrenched advantage over their competition. In fact, when entering the NHL they had to suffer from the reclamation draft, so one could argue that they were at a disadvantage.

6. There is still nothing worse than Red Sox fans who complain about the 'Evil Empire' when they are almost as bad in every way. Especially those losers who claim to even care about the Red Sox and think Manny was the best LF in Red Sox history all the while not even knowing who Carl Yastrzemski or Ted Williams are.

7. Anything else but a World Series win would prove to show that Joe Girardi is a complete incompetent.

8. The league is in great need of two things: a $170 million salary cap and a fourth round of play-offs while reducing the regular season to a 156 games.

9. The people get a hard on about the 'core four' should stop and think if the Yankees could have even made the play-offs if that was, truly, their 'core'. The answer is no. I hope nobody is dumb enough to try and retort that the 'core four' lead them to the world series win. Sorry, but that was Matsui, A-Rod and Sabathia. What do those four share in common? They were bought.

10. Sport is best when it is pure. The less pure it gets the less gratifying it is to both players and the fans (just look at how Damon reacted to the win last night). The notion that parity is antithetical to sport is perhaps one of the most dim-witted statements I've ever been exposed to (and I've been exposed to some preposterous under-grad jeremiads). Parity (to varying degrees) is a necessity in sport. The absence of parity is the absence of sport; equivalent to tying one boxer's arm behind his back or giving one team's batters four strikes and the other's only three.
Yip, though I don't really hate the AL game vs NL, but that is a differnt topic.

Also I could go on about how money buys talent from the draft. It is well documented. Right from the draft you can use money to get talent.

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11-05-2009, 01:28 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by McEwen View Post
In the NHL: Every team practically since post lockout including Edmonton has been near the cap ever since it came into effect. Several teams before the cap era like the Rangers, Toronto and so forth.
$ does not buy wins. Simple.
1 World Series victory in 8 years with their payroll proves you wrong.

Payroll gives a slight advantage. If your team cannot play as a team, they will not win as a team. Payroll means nothing. See Tampa last year in World Series.
As somebody said earlier, it is like rolling a 6 sided die against a 10 sided die. Nobody here (nobody reasonable) is saying that the highest payroll is guaranteed ultimate and complete victory.

How many of the cup winning teams since the lock out were not among those teams at or near the cap?

Quote:
People need to try and understand baseball isn't the same as the other sports.
Yet it drives me nuts when people say that they bought a title.
They signed more and better players than anyone else, and the ones they've signed PERFORMED!
That is the problem. The players they bought were not affordable to other teams in the league. The only argument to be made that they did not buy the World Series relies upon an argument that they did not 'buy' the services of A-Rod, C.C., Texiera, Matsui, A.J. Burnett, etc. Good luck trying to make a convincing argument with that...

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11-05-2009, 01:29 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by McEwen View Post
In the NHL: Every team practically since post lockout including Edmonton has been near the cap ever since it came into effect. Several teams before the cap era like the Rangers, Toronto and so forth.
$ does not buy wins. Simple.
1 World Series victory in 8 years with their payroll proves you wrong.

Payroll gives a slight advantage. If your team cannot play as a team, they will not win as a team. Payroll means nothing. See Tampa last year in World Series.
Dude, you are missing a simple fact. No, it isn't the WWF, the teams don't pay MLB to let them win. the games need to be played.

However, money buys talent, talent buys wins.

pretty bloody simple, the more you spend the more you will win, on average.

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11-05-2009, 01:34 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
Yip, though I don't really hate the AL game vs NL, but that is a differnt topic.

Also I could go on about how money buys talent from the draft. It is well documented. Right from the draft you can use money to get talent.
Case in point is the Jays this past season (well, what is just now the past season) did not sign their best draft picks who are some of the highest touted prospects in baseball.

Baseball has become about money more so than any of the other big four (NHL, MLB, NFL, NBA). I still love the sport and I still watch MLB games more than most (if not all) posters in this thread. But it is not good for the sport to have teams like the Royals and Pirates continually out of contention by the 25th game.

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11-05-2009, 01:35 PM
  #114
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9. The people get a hard on about the 'core four' should stop and think if the Yankees could have even made the play-offs if that was, truly, their 'core'. The answer is no. I hope nobody is dumb enough to try and retort that the 'core four' lead them to the world series win. Sorry, but that was Matsui, A-Rod and Sabathia. What do those four share in common? They were bought.
Jeter 0.343 with 6 RBI = Pretty respectable
Posada 0.260 with 8 RBI = Not a great avg but still brought in runs. Last I checked, runs WIN games
Pettitte 4-0, 3.52 ERA, 30.2IP
Rivera 0.56 ERA, 5 saves on 5 save opportunities.

....I'd say that they played a pretty big role in it.

And so what if they were bought? Should free agency be scrapped in baseball or all of professional sports? Sorry its apart of business. Find something else to complain about. ie) They cheat/broke the rules/blah blah blah. Buying players is called free agency.

Quote:
pretty bloody simple, the more you spend the more you will win, on average.
Then you are missing what I am saying. I agreed that yes, money gives you a slight advantage (money buys wins on average). But if a winning SYSTEM is not put in places wins will NOT happen. You are missing the point I have been making all along.


Last edited by McEwen: 11-05-2009 at 01:43 PM.
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11-05-2009, 01:40 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Lucky Luciano View Post
Baseball is a traditional sport that doesn't change on a whim. It's how fans prefer it. It makes the regular season more important, unlike the NHL where a team with a losing record can make the playoffs. Every single game matters in baseball where the competition is higher to win. You don't win, you don't deserve to compete for the championship.

After 162 games, the last thing MLB needs is some long drawn out 2 month playoffs where pitchers are going to blow out their arms.
What you have said about winning would be partially true if not for the fact that there is such an absence of parity in the MLB.

However, opposition to adding a fourth round because "the last thing MLB needs . . . blow out their arms" is quite weak. It would be be easy enough to reduce the schedule by a week or two and add another five games series to the playoffs. I personally would like to see something along the lines of each division sending its top two teams plus two wild card slots after that. The alternative would be reverting back to two division and allowing four teams from each division into the play-offs where you would actually have a play-off series to win your division.

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11-05-2009, 01:42 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by thome_26 View Post
I have a whole bunch of things to comment on after reading through this thread and want to be concise as possible.

1. Any pseudo-baseball fan who tries to claim that the Yankees didn't buy the World Series is either an idiot or ignorant. It's one or the other (or both). The Yankees are average (maybe slightly above average) in drafting and development. But don't be fooled, the only reason they seem to do good at bringing up home-grown players is because they never trade prospects to bring in help; they buy it in the off season. Teams like the Phillies (who lost one of their top prospects for Cliff Lee) don't have that luxury.

The Yankees are average, yet they drafted the highest percentage of their team in the American League and go on to win the World Series? Nice logic. Why didn't the Astros draft Jeter in 1992? It's not New York's fault they do it better, or actually it is their fault and good on them for it. Who did they buy? Sabathia - they're hardly the only team that bought a pitcher in the off season. Boston offered Texiera more money. They traded for A-Rod.

2. There was nothing 'special' about this team the way there was something special about the Phillies last year. There is no talent or special knowledge required to go out and continually sign the biggest names to the most expensive contracts. My brother could have built a world series team with that pay roll and he can probably only name 20 active major league baseball players.

Nothing special except that trophy they got last night? Again, buying players hasn't exactly been the best route to go. Look at the Yankees of the 1980s, where did that get them? How about Irabu, Abreu, Giambi? Did they win the Yankees championships? In fact, New York cut salary this year and won. The Yankees are hardly the only big spending team - Boston, LAA, LAD, Chicago Cubs and Sox... how did that work for them this year? Again, the two highest pay rolls to win the World Series belong to the Red Sox, not the Yankees.

3. Some people have thrown around random numbers about how much the Yankees spent in the off season on the 'big three' (it wasn't half a billion it was a quarter billion). Some have talked about how it is more than other teams entire rosters. But that's really not what is so stunning. What is shocking is that they spent as much as some franchises could be purchased for!

Yes, they spent money. So did other teams. They're hardly alone in this matter.

4. The National League is vastly superior baseball to the American league for two reasons. The first reason is there is no DH which is an abomination and reduces managers to cheer leaders in the AL. The second is the absence of the Yankees. There is all kinds of tradition and excellence in the National League, and it still remains pure as no team can afford to cover up bad decisions like the Yankees. Case in point is Johnny Damon. Any other team in the league would look to give Damon away for free in a trade because of what he is paid for the quality of player he is (average range, pathetic arm, sub. 300 BA, average at best power numbers for a corner outfield). But that doesn't hurt the Yankees as money is irrelevant to the Yankees.

National League vs. American League is always an argument that holds no relevance to the Yankees winning the World Series. Keep in mind they won 2 out of 3 games in Philadelphia under the NL rules. And actually the most memorable part of the rule difference was Andy Pettite driving in a run to help his own cause.

5. The know-nothing loser who compared those of us non-Yankee fans to Flames fans during the 80's is plainly a fool. What the Oilers did was pure. They did not have an entrenched advantage over their competition. In fact, when entering the NHL they had to suffer from the reclamation draft, so one could argue that they were at a disadvantage.

Hockey and baseball are different games.

6. There is still nothing worse than Red Sox fans who complain about the 'Evil Empire' when they are almost as bad in every way. Especially those losers who claim to even care about the Red Sox and think Manny was the best LF in Red Sox history all the while not even knowing who Carl Yastrzemski or Ted Williams are.

Again, Red Sox fans tend to ignore facts. Like their own team having the highest World Series payrolls. How they tried for A-Rod, offered Teixiera more money than New York, won the 04 World Series with only 2 home grown players.

7. Anything else but a World Series win would prove to show that Joe Girardi is a complete incompetent.

Ridiculous comment. Not even worth getting into.

8. The league is in great need of two things: a $170 million salary cap and a fourth round of play-offs while reducing the regular season to a 156 games.

Major League Baseball does not need to follow an NHL style of anything. Period.

9. The people get a hard on about the 'core four' should stop and think if the Yankees could have even made the play-offs if that was, truly, their 'core'. The answer is no. I hope nobody is dumb enough to try and retort that the 'core four' lead them to the world series win. Sorry, but that was Matsui, A-Rod and Sabathia. What do those four share in common? They were bought.

A-Rod was traded for. The Yankees can pay his salary, but it's not like they were the only ones that tried to get him. They just happened to offer the best package in Soriano, a home grown talent. If you're going to talk "bought" find me the last team that won the World Series without a free agent on it. The Yankees are hardly alone in this matter. They identified their weaknesses, addressed it and won. That's good management.

10. Sport is best when it is pure. The less pure it gets the less gratifying it is to both players and the fans (just look at how Damon reacted to the win last night). The notion that parity is antithetical to sport is perhaps one of the most dim-witted statements I've ever been exposed to (and I've been exposed to some preposterous under-grad jeremiads). Parity (to varying degrees) is a necessity in sport. The absence of parity is the absence of sport; equivalent to tying one boxer's arm behind his back or giving one team's batters four strikes and the other's only three.

Damon's celebration? Who cares? Look at A-Rod's celebration, you think it didn't matter to him? Or Rivera's celebration who had done it 4 times before? Or you think Jeter didn't care? How about Teixiera who looked like he was going to scream up something ugly? Or Swisher jumping higher than Carl Lewis? Less pure, you're out of your mind on this one.
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11-05-2009, 01:44 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by thome_26 View Post
Case in point is the Jays this past season (well, what is just now the past season) did not sign their best draft picks who are some of the highest touted prospects in baseball.

Baseball has become about money more so than any of the other big four (NHL, MLB, NFL, NBA). I still love the sport and I still watch MLB games more than most (if not all) posters in this thread. But it is not good for the sport to have teams like the Royals and Pirates continually out of contention by the 25th game.
I agree 100%, I love baseball, but as a league. It is a joke.

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11-05-2009, 01:45 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McEwen View Post
Jeter 0.343 with 6 RBI = Pretty respectable
Posada 0.260 with 8 RBI = Not a great avg but still brought in runs. Last I checked, runs WIN games
Pettitte 4-0, 3.52 ERA, 30.2IP
Rivera 0.56 ERA, 5 saves on 5 save opportunities.

....I'd say that they played a pretty big role in it.
I didn't say they were irrelevant. But they certainly were not the hero's or the catalyst behind the victory. As stated, and as you actually did not even really respond to: the guys that lead the Yankees to the World Series win were Matsui, A-Rod and Sabathia. If one person had to be added to the list then, yes, you could argue for Rivera. However, even talking about Posada is a joke. His mediocre numbers speak for themselves and he has was probably the worst catcher (defensively I'm speaking) in the play-offs this year.

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11-05-2009, 01:46 PM
  #119
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Jeter 0.343 with 6 RBI = Pretty respectable
Posada 0.260 with 8 RBI = Not a great avg but still brought in runs. Last I checked, runs WIN games
Pettitte 4-0, 3.52 ERA, 30.2IP
Rivera 0.56 ERA, 5 saves on 5 save opportunities.

....I'd say that they played a pretty big role in it.

And so what if they were bought? Should free agency be scrapped in baseball or all of professional sports? Sorry its apart of business. Find something else to complain about. ie) They cheat/broke the rules/blah blah blah. Buying players is called free agency.


Then you are missing what I am saying. I agreed that yes, money gives you a slight advantage (money buys wins on average). But if a winning SYSTEM is not put in places wins will NOT happen. You are missing the point I have been making all along.
It is a slight advantage when one team pay 80 mill and another 65 mill, when one pays 220 mill and another 25 mill, it is not a slight advantage. Sorry.

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11-05-2009, 01:47 PM
  #120
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Just for reference because people keep crying about buying A-Rod:

February 16, 2004: Traded by the Texas Rangers with cash to the New York Yankees for Alfonso Soriano. The New York Yankees sent Joaquin Arias (April 23, 2004) to the Texas Rangers to complete the trade.

The fact people keep suggesting he was some big free agent signing just goes to show to me a lack of knowledge in what people are talking about.

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11-05-2009, 01:48 PM
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It is a slight advantage when one team pay 80 mill and another 65 mill, when one pays 220 mill and another 25 mill, it is not a slight advantage. Sorry.
And you're kidding yourself if you think the Marlins or teams like the Royals want to pay anything more than they do.

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11-05-2009, 02:01 PM
  #122
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Boo! I wanted to see Matt Stairs win a second World Series. I remember watching him play for the Trapper way back when. In fact the very first professional ball game I seen was the Trappers vs the Nashville Sounds and In Stairs first at bat he hit a homer. Since then I have been a fan.

Again BOOOOO!!!!

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11-05-2009, 02:02 PM
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Yes. I am serious. No knuckleball. Just dead red serious, dude.

Jeter & Rivera are the best ball players I have ever seen.

Griffey Jr is also in the discussion.

Among pitchers...its fair to say Rivera can't be ranked as highly as the top starters because his IP's are far less...but if you look at how he dominates the definitive moments...no others are even close.

Same can be said for Jeter.
Griffey is in the discussion?

Griffey blows Jeter out of the water.

Jeter has a career high of 24 HR for crying out loud. Most over-rated player in sports.

If Jeter plays on any other team, nobody even knows who he is.

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11-05-2009, 02:07 PM
  #124
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Griffey is in the discussion?

Griffey blows Jeter out of the water.

Jeter has a career high of 24 HR for crying out loud. Most over-rated player in sports.

If Jeter plays on any other team, nobody even knows who he is.
I don't know, he might still be the same "pretty boy" if he played for the dodgers.

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11-05-2009, 02:10 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Hemskyfanboy83 View Post
Griffey is in the discussion?

Griffey blows Jeter out of the water.

Jeter has a career high of 24 HR for crying out loud. Most over-rated player in sports.

If Jeter plays on any other team, nobody even knows who he is.
Wow, you really do not watch baseball do you? Baseball is not about Home Runs. Learn the game and then join the discussion.

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