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Fact: We've Been Spinning our Wheels for 16 Years

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Old
11-07-2009, 09:00 PM
  #1
GoldenForum
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Fact: We've Been Spinning our Wheels for 16 Years

Forget tonight's game-- so we're 8-9 instead of 9-8.

Bigger picture: this is just brutal-- we have not improved in 16 years. Fact: We have not made it past the 2nd round in 16 years!!! We have not hard a true superstar since Roy and before him Lafleur (though I do love Cam, Gionta and Markov).

Enough of this junk. Gainey tried-- I don't blame him for a second. At this point, I'd rather we just bomb for a season or two and secure a couple of top 5 picks instead of this mediocrity season after season... for 16 years. Ouch!

Maybe the Molsons' will help turn things around. Martin's a good coach and Gainey's a good GM, but we just don't have enough top-end players to truly compete. Sucks to say, but true.

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11-07-2009, 09:14 PM
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OneSharpMarble
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If Gainey was ever going to bomb he would have traded our UFA's last year at the deadline for draft picks. The fact he went out and signed every player he could shows a desperate attempt to make the playoffs this year and save his job by sacrificing future cap room and prospects.

Don't be suprised to see our draft picks moved to secure more aging players to make the playoffs. GAINEY WILL NEVER BOMB.

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11-07-2009, 09:15 PM
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Why do I feel like this thread wouldn't exist if we won? and for that matter the same goes for the threads of the opposite extent.

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11-07-2009, 09:19 PM
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This team is going nowhere, it's a fact.

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Old
11-07-2009, 09:20 PM
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MicroFracture
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACCIDENT View Post
Why do I feel like this thread wouldn't exist if we won? and for that matter the same goes for the threads of the opposite extent.
Absolutely.
Losing = worst team in the NHL
Winning = ''shades of 1993''

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Old
11-07-2009, 09:21 PM
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Whitesnake
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Originally Posted by ACCIDENT View Post
Why do I feel like this thread wouldn't exist if we won? and for that matter the same goes for the threads of the opposite extent.
At one point, how stupid would a "We suck" thread would look like after a 7-2 win....

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11-07-2009, 09:21 PM
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Daice
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Originally Posted by Souvenirs View Post
Absolutely.
Losing = worst team in the NHL
Winning = ''shades of 1993''
well put

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Old
11-07-2009, 09:26 PM
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Pascal
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Fact: In today's NHL the difference between a cup winner and a borderline playoff team is very thin.

If we had Markov and secondary scoring we'd be right up there imo. So Akost and co need to wake up and we'll be just fine once the team learns to play team defense.

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Old
11-07-2009, 09:31 PM
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habtastic
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We are NOT as bad as we seem. It's a matter of execution. Our lineup has the type of players needed to win. 90% are not playing to their potential. This is the best overall team we've had in a long, long time. 07-08 was close, but everyone was firing all cylinders.

By the new year we will be a lot more optimistic. The team we have now is not the team we will have in awhile (both roster as well as personal performances).

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Old
11-07-2009, 09:32 PM
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You guys need to relax, you're missing Markov. That's a big deal.

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Old
11-07-2009, 09:36 PM
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Either way boys, we haven't made it beyond 2nd round in 16 years! That's more than just "a thin line" between winning the cup and not.

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11-07-2009, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
Fact: In today's NHL the difference between a cup winner and a borderline playoff team is very thin.

If we had Markov and secondary scoring we'd be right up there imo. So Akost and co need to wake up and we'll be just fine once the team learns to play team defense.
Aside from the Pens who "only" finished 6 points ahead of the last playoffs spot, most teams that were cup winners in the last 10 years were a great in the regular season also and it wasn't very thin.

As far as your solutions that seems so easy as you write it, well Markov IS NOT coming back since February. Secondary scoring is supported by a Pleks who is ALREADY doing the job. And AKost who's not and who else? So how is that much easy to fix this? As far as just playing team defense, well that's obviously much tougher than you think 'cause if not, it would have been done already.

You need more scoring that's for sure, but that won't be easy 'cause you are counting on guys that are question marks. You need a better transition game which you won't have at least until Markov comes back. And if we wait that long to be succesful, we all know that it will be too late. And you need your goalies to save your ass on a lot of occasions.

You can't expect the first line to be much better. The guys are checked like no others. And as feisty as they are, these constant battles will affect them 'cause they're not the biggest. People would like to pretend as if size isn't important, but it definately is. But it's mostly important 'cause they have no freakin support whatsoever.

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Old
11-07-2009, 09:42 PM
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Short term solutions for Glory? (Objective : Stanley Cup)

get a first overall pick (okay.. top 2-3), franchise player, its seems to be the way lately, without a franchise player, its a PERFECT mix you need, right now we have nothing close to a franchise, the one who is suppose to be, plays right now like fleury in is first 3 years, or Cam Ward, after his Stanley cup for like 2 years.. completely unstable able from the best like the worst. even tough the first line is extremelly competitive lowerly small and as the year goes by this line will suffer more and more. already Gio is on the verge of missing some games.. also someting about getting a superstar player.. it always seem like a gift is connected to a superstar.. another player franchise player comes from the sky from various ways.. being a top 10 pick wich becomes a star or a 2nd, 3th round pick that comes out of nowhere.

its tough with this new league, you need a franchise kid who will make small money for his first 3-6 years.. to build a menace out there but look how fast team turn around in an instant, chicago (toews, kane) pittsburgh, (Crosby, Malkin) tampa (Stamkos is faboulous), Los angeles (Kopitar finally able to carry his team), Washington, (Ovechkin, Backstrom, Green) and the list goes on..

I think gainey wanted work ethic and got it.. but.. very very expensive work ethic, wich comes back to my post, solution to accomplish this feat of getting back to top? trade high salaries... but unlikely to improve, most likely lateral move unless top prospect is traded.. (if you dont want to thank, might as well do this, if you REALLY want to win now, anyway, you dont have much choice) or.. we tank wich we wont do... in montreal.. ( sometimes i wich we would )

most of the time getting that huge superstar gives you team a good 10 years of high competiveness, unless poorly managed team..


its just my idea, when i think Canadiens, i think champions, but when i see the team right now, i see barely playoffs, and that.. is with high hopes.


Flame me away... or just give your opinion.. what can be done to bring the Stanley back... cause I KNOW its all we want.


Last edited by Crusher20: 11-07-2009 at 10:03 PM.
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Old
11-07-2009, 09:46 PM
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Well, we have a good chance at a top 10 pick this year.

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11-07-2009, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Souvenirs View Post
Well, we have a good chance at a top 10 pick this year.
optimistic will tell you when markov comes back we will be finnish around 5th in conference, i love Markov, and is an impact player but people need to realise, Habs for the last 2-3 years (when markov produce the most) we were loaded of talent in front. also, when markov will comeback, dont expect him to carry the team, he most likely will take a month before he has a major impact, if he does.. because lets be serious, the injury is a serious one I even doubt he will go to the olympics ( he will surely try tough)...


but indeed i do believe we COULD end up with a top 6-12 pick.. but we need a super star, because we seem to struggle getting that superstar later in the draft.. at least for the last 20 years.. lol or even more.

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Old
11-07-2009, 09:53 PM
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Sad but true.

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Old
11-07-2009, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenForum View Post
Forget tonight's game-- so we're 8-9 instead of 9-8.

Bigger picture: this is just brutal-- we have not improved in 16 years. Fact: We have not made it past the 2nd round in 16 years!!! We have not hard a true superstar since Roy and before him Lafleur (though I do love Cam, Gionta and Markov).

Enough of this junk. Gainey tried-- I don't blame him for a second. At this point, I'd rather we just bomb for a season or two and secure a couple of top 5 picks instead of this mediocrity season after season... for 16 years. Ouch!

Maybe the Molsons' will help turn things around. Martin's a good coach and Gainey's a good GM, but we just don't have enough top-end players to truly compete. Sucks to say, but true.

Do you know what a Fact is ?

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Old
11-07-2009, 09:59 PM
  #18
Jack Bourdain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenForum View Post
Forget tonight's game-- so we're 8-9 instead of 9-8.

Bigger picture: this is just brutal-- we have not improved in 16 years. Fact: We have not made it past the 2nd round in 16 years!!! We have not hard a true superstar since Roy and before him Lafleur (though I do love Cam, Gionta and Markov).

Enough of this junk. Gainey tried-- I don't blame him for a second. At this point, I'd rather we just bomb for a season or two and secure a couple of top 5 picks instead of this mediocrity season after season... for 16 years. Ouch!

Maybe the Molsons' will help turn things around. Martin's a good coach and Gainey's a good GM, but we just don't have enough top-end players to truly compete. Sucks to say, but true.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=698533

A few weeks late to the party. And may I suggest a new team to cheer for if you're looking for the easy way to winning a championship:

http://hfboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=23

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Old
11-07-2009, 10:02 PM
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Raider917
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if gionta and gomez could be dealt at the deadline(or earlier) i think that tanking it this year would be better than making the playoffs by their skin teeth. this team is what it is for the next 3 yrs at least with this roster.

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Old
11-07-2009, 10:08 PM
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MoonlightGraham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
Fact: In today's NHL the difference between a cup winner and a borderline playoff team is very thin.

If we had Markov and secondary scoring we'd be right up there imo. So Akost and co need to wake up and we'll be just fine once the team learns to play team defense.
Exactly. As long as we manage to hang around 8th place until Markov comes back we'll be fine.

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Old
11-07-2009, 10:10 PM
  #21
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Someone bump the 'Feels like 1993' thread, I lol everytime I get to read it.

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Old
11-07-2009, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Raider917 View Post
if gionta and gomez could be dealt at the deadline(or earlier) i think that tanking it this year would be better than making the playoffs by their skin teeth. this team is what it is for the next 3 yrs at least with this roster.
you cannot be serious. Finally we have quality players and you want to shuffle the deck like we've been doing for so long. Please let us keep the players who are the foundation of a winning team and not bank on some 18 year old to slowly lead us to the top (that's if we tank one year). This is Montreal. We don't do tanking and I'm glad. This team is not even what it will be in Feb, let alone 3 years. Sure Markov won't be instant impact, but this team will improve drastically. It's been like a month since the start of the season. Remember when we used to start the season on a tear? Remember last season up until the All-Star game? This is a process. It will be painful, but I honestly believe this team has talent and the right coach to bring it out.

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Old
11-07-2009, 10:11 PM
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Jack Bourdain
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Originally Posted by Raider917 View Post
if gionta and gomez could be dealt at the deadline(or earlier) i think that tanking it this year would be better than making the playoffs by their skin teeth. this team is what it is for the next 3 yrs at least with this roster.
You have a core of Gomez, Gionta, Cammalleri signed for the next 4 years. Then you re-sign Markov and choose one of Price and Halak. Develop O'Byrne and Subban, and keep drafting wisely. That's how you maintain the fight for the post-season, EVERY season.

You guys are pathetic, wanting to finish bottom so you can pick up some good picks. I rather watch a team play well for 82 games, get into the postseason and light some sparks, giving it their best. I refuse to suffer mediocrity and be ridiculed by the fans of the other teams.

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11-07-2009, 10:18 PM
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You have a core of Gomez, Gionta, Cammalleri signed for the next 4 years. Then you re-sign Markov and choose one of Price and Halak. Develop O'Byrne and Subban, and keep drafting wisely. That's how you maintain the fight for the post-season, EVERY season.

You guys are pathetic, wanting to finish bottom so you can pick up some good picks. I rather watch a team play well for 82 games, get into the postseason and light some sparks, giving it their best. I refuse to suffer mediocrity and be ridiculed by the fans of the other teams.
you dont think thats happening now? the only team in i dont know how long to get really good without being really bad is detroit. they have scouting like no other team for some unknown reason. i havent seen scouting like theirs from this team since they had bowman as a gm and had the regional priveleges.

there doesnt seem to be any other way to develop into a powerhouse team. i would rather see them become that washington or pittsburgh type of team than being a team that finishes 4-8 (at best) every year.

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Old
11-07-2009, 10:22 PM
  #25
Pascal
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Aside from the Pens who "only" finished 6 points ahead of the last playoffs spot, most teams that were cup winners in the last 10 years were a great in the regular season also and it wasn't very thin.

As far as your solutions that seems so easy as you write it, well Markov IS NOT coming back since February. Secondary scoring is supported by a Pleks who is ALREADY doing the job. And AKost who's not and who else? So how is that much easy to fix this? As far as just playing team defense, well that's obviously much tougher than you think 'cause if not, it would have been done already.

You need more scoring that's for sure, but that won't be easy 'cause you are counting on guys that are question marks. You need a better transition game which you won't have at least until Markov comes back. And if we wait that long to be succesful, we all know that it will be too late. And you need your goalies to save your ass on a lot of occasions.

You can't expect the first line to be much better. The guys are checked like no others. And as feisty as they are, these constant battles will affect them 'cause they're not the biggest. People would like to pretend as if size isn't important, but it definately is. But it's mostly important 'cause they have no freakin support whatsoever.
No one expected Carolina to win, or Tampa Bay.. or Edmonton to get to the finals.. and did Calgary have a stacked team? No, aside from Iginla they didn't have any huge stars up front. They had a good solid team with great goaltending and a couple of shutdown dmen. Why can't we be the same kind of teams as a Carolina or Calgary? You can look back further to teams like NJ who basically won because of their goaltending and team defense.. they never had big names on any of their teams except for Brodeur and Niedermayer and to some extent Stevens.

Anyway my point is that a hockey team isn't always equal to the sum of its parts. All the teams that have won the cup in the last decade have all had very solid TEAM play and great goaltending. There's a lot of holes on the Habs right now like the PP/PK, secondary scoring, defense, etc... but there's no reason why in 3, 6, 12, 24 months we can't be a cup contender. It all depends on how all its parts come together.

And about secondary scoring, it's not just AKost, it's Pac/Lats and Laps who have not done anything this season yet. If AKost had just 5 goals this season we'd probably have 1-3 wins more, which is a huge difference already. The biggest hole to me is that we don't really have another top 6 winger who can really produce in the NHL.. Pac doesn't seem ready and Lats is horrible. That's one hole where a Sergei Kostitsyn might help... who knows?

I think it's way too early to give up on the team even if we haven't been past the 2nd round in a long time. If you look around the NHL there's a ton of teams that are in way worse shape than the Habs... fact is the NHL is the Parity League now and the difference between #1 and #10 is actually not as huge as it use to be. The Habs are "in the pack" even without Markov and with a completely new team and system. It's not half bad.

I ranted a lot

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