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Old
11-10-2009, 10:58 AM
  #76
Christina Woloski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timorousme View Post
This team has two needs, a number one defenceman and a third line centre, the dman would be a lot tougher to get though.

Ideally, you'd be looking for a two-way veteran centre, who could play on the second line if one of kes/hank go down.

I don't who that would be though, Lang?
I think a top six winger to replace Burrows is something the Canucks need. I believe a Cup caliber team has Burrows on the third line.

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11-10-2009, 10:59 AM
  #77
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What about having Bolduc and Wellwood rotate in for each other?

I personally think Wellwood's been fine, sure he hasn't put up points, but he did the same thing last year where he was goal less in 18 games or something, maybe it was longer.

He's playing well defensively, the offense will come.

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11-10-2009, 11:14 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazzucco View Post
Schneider and Raycroft and a 2nd or one of our 5th/6th Dman for any top 6 forward and any random backup.


With Luongo signed long-term and Raycoft's stock higher than previously, I'd love to give him more games and shop him. Pair in Schneider and we basically give two chances for a team to solve their goalie problems.
Raycroft isn't going to be dealt... his value is still minimal despite his good showing in the past few games... but he's still a decent backup goalie who's signed for league minimum. Makes zero sense to move him at all. What happens next time Luongo gets hurt? or do we now think he's not going to get hurt at all, after having 2 injuries now in back to back years?

and the team is also stocked with wingers as well... we don't need a top6 forward at all, we have plenty of them. The team's offense has not been the problem at all, and that despite missing the team's best goal scorer recently. Burrows is also fine overall... and he may get pushed to the 3rd line without any other additions. With Raymond and Grabner's play especially, it makes no sense to move any assets to add another top 6 forward.

The one hole I still see on this team is at 3rd line center... I still maintain this is the big weakness we have on our forward lines... other than that, they've done fine, despite dealing with injuries... and with a top line winger back now, along with a 3rd line winger in Hansen, we should have plenty of depth up front.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazzucco View Post
I think a top six winger to replace Burrows is something the Canucks need. I believe a Cup caliber team has Burrows on the third line.
what Cup caliber team would that be? Would that be Pittsburgh, who's top 6 wingers currently are Kunitz, Guerin, or Fedotenko or Kennedy?

last game, the Pens also changed their wingers since their top wingers (especially Guerin) were not producing... so now Staal is with Crosby's former wingers in Kunitz and Guerin, while Crosby now gets Staal's wingers in Cooke and Fedotenko?

are the Pens not a Cup caliber team? do they have 4 wingers better than Burrows?

what about Detroit? Even with Franzen out and Zetterberg bouncing between wing and center, their other wingers are Holmstrom, Cleary, and Bertuzzi... is that a big step up from Burrows?

who are the other Cup caliber teams that have 4 top-6 wingers that push guys like Burrows to the 3rd line?


Last edited by NFITO: 11-10-2009 at 11:20 AM.
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Old
11-10-2009, 11:18 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Buck View Post
What about having Bolduc and Wellwood rotate in for each other?

I personally think Wellwood's been fine, sure he hasn't put up points, but he did the same thing last year where he was goal less in 18 games or something, maybe it was longer.

He's playing well defensively, the offense will come.
I agree. Other than some PP time, he's been with plugs all year too. It's such a shame after he, Bernier and Raymond looked good in the preseason. It leads me to believe Wellwood needs to be with someone who has some finish to produce. I'm not going to judge until he gets an upgrades line mate.

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11-10-2009, 11:26 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazzucco View Post
I think a top six winger to replace Burrows is something the Canucks need. I believe a Cup caliber team has Burrows on the third line.
No.

I believe Burrows to be a top 6 forward - he scored 28 goals last year and whether you want to attribute that to the twins or an abberation - or both - he still scored 28 goals. He's off to a slow start, but there are rumours persisting that he has a groin injury. I think that if the lineup were not so depleted, he would have likely sat games this year.

This team can be a cup calibre team with Burrows in it's top 6 - the team just needs to add and subtract on it's blueline.

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11-10-2009, 11:51 AM
  #81
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Did anyone see Burrows comment about him being reluctant to stir the pot in fear of Henrik getting 'pulled into scrums' while the team was playing with a depleted lineup?

I wonder if re-uniting Kesler and Burrows will help get Alex's edge back. Burrows has been an excellent compliment to the twins but Samuelsson has also shown he's capable of doing the dirty work and able finish plays off to be an effective top 6 winger.

Going into the season I didn't want to see Burrows taken off the Sedin line but I'm starting to think it might be a good idea. Either way the Canucks look to finally have solved their lack of secondary scoring. Can't wait to see a somewhat healthy lineup.

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11-10-2009, 12:36 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
Raycroft isn't going to be dealt... his value is still minimal despite his good showing in the past few games... but he's still a decent backup goalie who's signed for league minimum. Makes zero sense to move him at all. What happens next time Luongo gets hurt? or do we now think he's not going to get hurt at all, after having 2 injuries now in back to back years?

and the team is also stocked with wingers as well... we don't need a top6 forward at all, we have plenty of them. The team's offense has not been the problem at all, and that despite missing the team's best goal scorer recently. Burrows is also fine overall... and he may get pushed to the 3rd line without any other additions. With Raymond and Grabner's play especially, it makes no sense to move any assets to add another top 6 forward.

The one hole I still see on this team is at 3rd line center... I still maintain this is the big weakness we have on our forward lines... other than that, they've done fine, despite dealing with injuries... and with a top line winger back now, along with a 3rd line winger in Hansen, we should have plenty of depth up front.



what Cup caliber team would that be? Would that be Pittsburgh, who's top 6 wingers currently are Kunitz, Guerin, or Fedotenko or Kennedy?

last game, the Pens also changed their wingers since their top wingers (especially Guerin) were not producing... so now Staal is with Crosby's former wingers in Kunitz and Guerin, while Crosby now gets Staal's wingers in Cooke and Fedotenko?

are the Pens not a Cup caliber team? do they have 4 wingers better than Burrows?

what about Detroit? Even with Franzen out and Zetterberg bouncing between wing and center, their other wingers are Holmstrom, Cleary, and Bertuzzi... is that a big step up from Burrows?

who are the other Cup caliber teams that have 4 top-6 wingers that push guys like Burrows to the 3rd line?
in fairness, having those guys works fine if you have centers like Crosby, Malkin, Datsyuk etc ... arguably its about top-6 level talent overall, and while we do have good depth, beyond the Sedins we're pretty short on guys who are proven to be above the 40-pt level ...

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11-10-2009, 01:18 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
in fairness, having those guys works fine if you have centers like Crosby, Malkin, Datsyuk etc ... arguably its about top-6 level talent overall, and while we do have good depth, beyond the Sedins we're pretty short on guys who are proven to be above the 40-pt level ...
fair enough... we certainly don't have the talent down the middle those teams do... but even compared to other teams, are the Canucks that far back on the wings? IMO our wingers are a strength on this team right now... we've just gone through an injury to our #1 winger, and haven't been worse for wear. We even called up Grabner, who's played very well and produced, and he got injured, and still were able to make-up for it with the team's depth... all this without Demitra available, who'll be like a deadline pick as he's expected back by then.

And I don't think our talent of "proven over 40-pt level" is that bad... beyond the Sedins, you have Samuelsson and Kesler... and Demitra is expected back by February, and he's no doubt a proven 40+point guy. So going into the playoffs, this team will have 5 guys who are proven 40+ point guys, which doesn't include Burrows, who did it last year, and Raymond should get close to that as well... not to mention the improved offense from defense, adding another 40+ point guy there in Ehrhoff.

IMO center-ice is a much bigger concern. The Canucks were able to get through these past few injuries because of the team's depth on wing... but what happens if Henrik or Kesler go down?

Center-ice is the only position on this team, IMO, that lacks depth at this stage - and if you want to compare us to contending teams, pretty much all top contenders have their depth down the middle. I'd love to see the team add another center here... whether it's a 3rd line guy, or someone who takes over the 2nd line role and moves Kesler to wing, which at least gives you more insurance against injury.

I hope Henrik and Kesler remain healthy through the year... this team's got the depth to cover for injuries everywhere else on the roster, but when Wellwood becomes the #2 guy, with 2 of Rypien/Johnson/Bolduc/Bliznak in the lineup, we're in serious trouble.

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11-10-2009, 01:35 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
fair enough... we certainly don't have the talent down the middle those teams do... but even compared to other teams, are the Canucks that far back on the wings? IMO our wingers are a strength on this team right now... we've just gone through an injury to our #1 winger, and haven't been worse for wear. We even called up Grabner, who's played very well and produced, and he got injured, and still were able to make-up for it with the team's depth... all this without Demitra available, who'll be like a deadline pick as he's expected back by then.

And I don't think our talent of "proven over 40-pt level" is that bad... beyond the Sedins, you have Samuelsson and Kesler... and Demitra is expected back by February, and he's no doubt a proven 40+point guy. So going into the playoffs, this team will have 5 guys who are proven 40+ point guys, which doesn't include Burrows, who did it last year, and Raymond should get close to that as well... not to mention the improved offense from defense, adding another 40+ point guy there in Ehrhoff.

IMO center-ice is a much bigger concern. The Canucks were able to get through these past few injuries because of the team's depth on wing... but what happens if Henrik or Kesler go down?

Center-ice is the only position on this team, IMO, that lacks depth at this stage - and if you want to compare us to contending teams, pretty much all top contenders have their depth down the middle. I'd love to see the team add another center here... whether it's a 3rd line guy, or someone who takes over the 2nd line role and moves Kesler to wing, which at least gives you more insurance against injury.

I hope Henrik and Kesler remain healthy through the year... this team's got the depth to cover for injuries everywhere else on the roster, but when Wellwood becomes the #2 guy, with 2 of Rypien/Johnson/Bolduc/Bliznak in the lineup, we're in serious trouble.
Robert Lang is our solution. Phoenix will *hopefully* be selling come trade deadline, and to my knowledge they don't have any highly regarded goaltending prospects. It seems like a perfect fit imo, the only thing to debate is Schneider vs Lang's value and the appropriate picks on either side to compensate for this.

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Old
11-10-2009, 03:44 PM
  #85
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I know it's just fun and games, but some of you make me sick about how eager you seem to throw out Ryan Kesler for the flavour of the month.

I'd take Kesler and Bieksa a thousand times over Roy and Myers. And I'd expect Buffalo fans to take Roy and Myers a thousand times over Kesler and Bieksa. There are some players you shouldn't even talk about trading.

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11-10-2009, 04:04 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Did anyone see Burrows comment about him being reluctant to stir the pot in fear of Henrik getting 'pulled into scrums' while the team was playing with a depleted lineup?
That's pathetic, can Henrik not take a ****ing glove to the face? Not even a punch, but a glove.

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11-10-2009, 04:20 PM
  #87
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How about Kyle Wellwood or Janik Hansen for Steve Downie?

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11-10-2009, 04:36 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Meganuck View Post
How about Kyle Wellwood or Janik Hansen for Steve Downie?
Definitely no to Downie. He's not the type of guy I would want on my team. Not even an NHL regular yet and he has 4 suspensions under his belt.

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11-10-2009, 04:42 PM
  #89
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I for one would love to have Downie. He's learned some major lessons in his short NHL career and is rounding into a solid sandpaper type of 3rd line forward. He will be the type of guy you want on your team. He hits, plays hard and will be a playoff force someday. Problem is I think TB sees this as well, and I don't see them giving him up unless they get someone with a chance to score in their top-6 back. His value isn't at a point where he's worth trading. However I'd rather have him than Steve Bernier on this team.

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11-10-2009, 07:08 PM
  #90
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how about paul gausted? from buffalo to fill the 3rd c role in the bottom 6. he isnt afraid to drop the gloves. imo, our 3rd and 4th lines arent that good. hordy doesnt fight as much, rypien does that from time to time plus sooner or later he's gonna get hurt. so van has 3 centers down the middle. hank,ryan,paul,johnson. unless there are other players you guys think could fit the role.

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11-10-2009, 07:41 PM
  #91
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think its not that bad

We need a 3rd line center? Well i think we have the best future in the NHL in Hodgsen and Schroeder. I think Hodgsen could be a decent call up after his season is done if he is healthy.

I just don't see us in that much trouble. We are playing better than .500 hockey (after the first 3 games) with an incredibly depleted core.

I think rather than trading major assets such as kesler Burrows or Bieska we should just ride through this rough spots. I sincerely believe if this team is healthy come play off time that we really don't need much to take on any team in the NHL.

Question for the experts. If we have more players than spots available, what options are open to us. Can we only reduce our cap hit by sending players to the minors? Or can we just sit them? If so, we only send players that can;t be claimed off waivers I assume.

also, is there any point in the year when players no longer have to clear waivers to return to the NHL?

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11-10-2009, 07:56 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by billvanseattle View Post
We need a 3rd line center? Well i think we have the best future in the NHL in Hodgsen and Schroeder. I think Hodgsen could be a decent call up after his season is done if he is healthy.

I just don't see us in that much trouble. We are playing better than .500 hockey (after the first 3 games) with an incredibly depleted core.

I think rather than trading major assets such as kesler Burrows or Bieska we should just ride through this rough spots. I sincerely believe if this team is healthy come play off time that we really don't need much to take on any team in the NHL.

Question for the experts. If we have more players than spots available, what options are open to us. Can we only reduce our cap hit by sending players to the minors? Or can we just sit them? If so, we only send players that can;t be claimed off waivers I assume.

also, is there any point in the year when players no longer have to clear waivers to return to the NHL?
I don't anyone is suggesting moving a "major asset" to fill a 3rd line center role... there are plenty of options available as just rentals players that wouldn't take much more than a 2nd round pick and/or mid-level prospects to attain.

Hodgson isn't ready yet and isn't going to help us this season... even if he's called up after his season is done, it could be a huge risk - maybe he's still not ready, while the team is going into their toughest part of the schedule, or more likely, he's going to get traded to a contender and his season won't be over anytime soon.

Right now, this club's center ice depth is bordering on pathetic... there are lots of wingers, and we've seen how good the depth is there as we've had injuries recently, but down the middle there isn't much.

As far as your questions go, once players come off IR you have to reduce your roster down... that means sending players down to the farm (or trading them)... the likely scenario for the Canucks is waiving a few of these fringe guys (Pettinger, Glass) as the injured get back. They will be on waivers, but are likely to slide through anyways... in order to get them off the cap however, they have to be sent to the minors. As long as they're with the NHL team, their daily cap hit is added to the Canucks overall cap situation for this year.

Players will also have to clear waivers to be recalled (granted they are eligible for recall waivers, which depends on his age/experience) at any point during the year... however, after the deadline if a team claims a player being recalled, they can't dress him for the remainder of the season or playoffs.

I believe those are the rules... I'm no CBA expert, but I'm fairly sure that's how it all works.

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Old
11-11-2009, 01:59 AM
  #93
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I have a suspicion that that one guy who was going on and on about how good Tyler Myers is, is actually in fact Tyler Myers himself.

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11-11-2009, 02:59 PM
  #94
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That proposal just makes me angry.

Kesler are heart and soul players that the team needs. Vanek, while good, makes too much money.

My proposal:

Bieksa for Hamhuis - straight up.
I agree! Kesler is the type of player that teams are trying to get, not trade away.

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