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All-Time Draft #12, Part VI

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Old
11-13-2009, 02:31 AM
  #151
Hedberg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
The ATD's basically half Canuck fans and half Leaf fans, and I already got the Canuck vote with Luongo, so I figured I'd grab Potvin, who I'm sure still has a soft spot in the hearts of some Leafs fans.
Yeah, but Potvin was so bad in Vancouver you'll lose the Canuck vote

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11-13-2009, 02:49 AM
  #152
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Lander View Post
I think we should extened the draft so we go over a 1000 players picked for the frst time in atd hstory


two more double rounds will do that
There are MLDs and AAA drafts following every draft (except this one) - you are free to join and expand your knowledge. I'm pretty sure as a regular ATD GM you'd have received invites to all of these, but to my knowledge you've never joined.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
yes, let's.

if anyone wants to do a quickie extra draft AFTER the playoffs (a christmas season optional minor league draft - *shudder*) then more power to ya
Please no! ATD13 will start just as the finals of this draft end. It'll be destined to be another unfinished draft that people lost interest in.

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Old
11-13-2009, 03:00 AM
  #153
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Trail selects C Keith Acton and RW Scott Mellanby as strong back ups for my 3rd/4th liners should they be injured or pressed into top line duty by injuries.

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11-13-2009, 03:06 AM
  #154
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The Portland Rosebuds select, for the Vancouver (Washington) Giants:

Darren Puppa, G
Al Hamilton, D

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Old
11-13-2009, 03:10 AM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
Yeah, but Potvin was so bad in Vancouver you'll lose the Canuck vote
Any Canuck fan knows full well they automatically lose their status as a legitimate Canuck fan should they even consider voting against a team featuring Bobby Lou*, so consider this me calling your bluff. Jerk.



*Voting against other Canuck legends is allowed because they don't play for the team currently, so they clearly don't count. And voting for the Sedins is super gay.



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Old
11-13-2009, 01:45 PM
  #156
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Eddie Oatman, F/D/Rover (mostly RW)



- 5'8", 155 lbs
- Stanley Cup (1912)
- Stanley Cup Finalist (1916, 1922, 1924)
- Top-10 in Goals in his league (OPHL, NHA, PCHA) 10 times (3rd, 4th, 5th, 5th, 6th, 6th, 7th, 7th, 8th, 10th)
- Top-10 in Assists in his league 13 times (1st, 1st, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 9th)
- Top-10 in Points in his league 12 times (3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 6th, 6th, 7th, 7th, 7th, 7th, 8th, 10th)
- Top-10 in PIM in his league 11 times (2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, 5th, 5th, 7th, 8th, 10th, 10th)
- On pace for 3rd in Goals, 1st in Assists, 3rd in points in 1917 NHA before 228th Battallion's season was cut short (finished 8th, 3rd, 7th, included above)
- 1st or 2nd on his team in scoring in 10 of 11 seasons from 1910-1920 (5X 1st, 5X 2nd)
- PCHA 1st All-Star Team (1914, 1915, 1916)
- PCHA 1st/2nd All Star Team 7 other seasons (1913, 1918, 1919, 1920, 1921, 1922, 1923)
- OPHL 1st All-Star Team (1910)
- According to The Trail, 12th in pre-merger goals, behind Lalonde, Malone, Denneny, Pitre, Smith, Bowie, Nighbor, Cleghorn, Dunderdale, Foyston, and Roberts.
- Very consistent player. Along with Mickey MacKay, Oatman is the only player to play 5+ PCHA seasons and have 15+ points in each of them.
- 203 Goals, 106 Assists, 309 Points in 320 top-level games
- 6 goals, 2 assists, 8 Points in 21 top-level playoff games
- Career continued for 6 more seasons in American pro leagues AHA & CAHL, then played until 1939 in Saskatchewan and Duluth, retiring at age 50.
- Was captain of six pro teams

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIHR
Professional hockey may be the most physically challenging of all sports.The strenuous leg exertion - the grueling player contact - the playing arena coldness - the ice hardness, all takes their toll on the player. The professional career is fewer than a dozen years. Bobby Hull's 20-year career is exceptional. To play 32 years in the demanding sport should be impossible, yet that is the extraordinary accomplishment of Eddie Oatman.

While there is relatively little known about his personal life, the Internet did reveal information about his hockey career. Though Eddie never played in the National Hockey League, he was among the elite goal scorers of his era. During his 32 years playing professional ice hockey, Eddie was picked 10 straight seasons as an all-star with the Pacific Coast Hockey Association. He was a star with the Quebec Bulldogs when it won the 1912 Stanley Cup. Eddie played with clubs that won five league championships, and he was a successful coach and captain of five different hockey teams.

...He signed with New Westminster Royals. In the 1914-15 season, he was named to the PCHA all-star team. The Royals became the Portland Rosebuds and Eddie became the team captain. The following year, he also was its coach and was an all-star again when the club won the league championship. However, the Montreal Canadians won their first Stanley Cup title beating Portland three games to two in a best-of-five playoff. With Portland's near victory over Montreal, expectations grew for their chances in the 1916-1917 season, but these hopes ended when Eddie enlisted in the Canadian armed forces as part of the 228th Battalion.

When the 228th Battalion secured a franchise in the NHA for the 1916-17 season, Oatman joined the roster. But when the 228th was sent to Europe for military action in the First World War, Oatman was discharged "for special circumstances." The following season Eddie went back to Portland, again as its coach and captain. When the Rosebuds suspended operations, Eddie joined the Victoria Aristocrats as their captain and remained with the team for the next five years. As result of another player's injury, he saw action with the Vancouver Millionaires when they lost the Stanley Cup to the Toronto St. Pats in 1922.

Eddie was traded to the Calgary Tigers in 1923-24. He helped the team win the Western Canada Hockey League title, but were denied a Stanley Cup championship when they again lost to the Montreal Canadiens. From 1924 to 1926, he was the Tigers' coach and captain, leading them to back-to-back championships in 1924 and 1925. Unfortunately, pro hockey collapsed in the West after the 1925-26 season, but he continued to play minor-league hockey. Eddie was the team captain of the Minneapolis, Minnesota, club in the American League in 1927. Then, for the next three years, he played for the Boston Tigers in the Canadian-American League (1928-1930), and as their captain led them to the league championship in the 1929. In 1931, he played as captain for the Buffalo Majors in the American League. He later served as a player-coach in Yorkton, Prince Albert and Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, until his hockey-playing career ended when he was 50.

Eddie died 24 years later in 1973 at age 74. Although hockey was his life, Eddie was a barber by trade and found time to marry and have one son. There is a triangular stone for him at the Springford Cemetery, Oxford County, Ontario, where he is buried next to his brother Russ. He was also the subject of a Ripley's "Believe It Or Not" article for playing 32 years in professional hockey and is featured on at least two trading cards.

Following his death, Ed's family tried unsuccessfully to have him inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Trail Of the Stanley Cup, Vol. 1
...He played a few games on defense with Ernie Johnson and then took over his regular RW spot with ******** and *******. The next year playing rover and RW with the Royals, he made the PCHA All-Star team, in spite of being out two weeks with a broken toe. The team was moved to Portland where he repeated on the All-Star team when the Rosebuds won the championship but failed to win the cup... When the 228th Battallion secured an NHA franchise, Oatman was in the lineup and although their best player, earned some unfavourable publicity when the battallion went overseas... he returned to Portland where he played Rover... had four years with Victoria playing rover and RW, and also did a spell on defense with Clem Loughlin... He outlasted his old teammates Joe Malone and **** ********. He was a first class player, numbered amongst the elite who scored over 200 goals.
Was Eddie Oatman a star?

Those who were there, frequently said he was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto Star, February 16, 1910
Waterloo without Oatman is like a ship without a rudder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous poem dedicated to 1912 Quebec Bulldogs
...Eddie Oatman is a dandy, Eddie's heady and he's handy,
He is sure the real candy, as he more than once has shown...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto Star, October 25, 1912
Oatman is considered by many to be one of the best men in the N. H. A.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Trail Of the Stanley Cup, Vol. 1
Eddie Oatman, star rover of the New Westminster Royals...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Hockey
Two top PCHA stars Eddie Oatman and Art Duncan had signed up... it started to look as if Oatman's real role with the 228th was as a ringer for the hockey club.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto Star, November 6, 1916
In Eddie Oatman, late of Portland, now with the 228th, and Gordon Keats, who will again be with Torontos, the local N.H.A. clubs have two of the best centre players in the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto Star, December 9, 1916
Eddie Oatman, Who will play on the forward line for the 228th Battalion N. H. A. team this winter. He is one of the best forwards in the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Globe and Mail, November 4th, 1918
Eddie Oatman, former NHA star...
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Trail Of The Stanley Cup, VOl. 1
He was a first class player
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Immortals: Commemorating the Formative Years of Canadian Professional Hockey
Lester Patrick, his coach for five years in Victoria said Oatman was one of the greatest players of his time. Frank Selke referred to Oatman as a gentleman and a fine team player.
How did Oatman play?

For the past few drafts we really haven't had much to go on in regards to Oatman's play. Thanks to some old newspaper research, mostly by overpass, we finally have many clues. Oatman was a well-balanced offensive player who was probably a better playmaker than goalscorer. He was chippy and gritty, and he could skate and shoot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto Star, January 17, 1911
Oatman did a lot of fighting, and was finally chopped down by McNamara, the Renfrew captain. Both were chased to the ice box for the balance of the match, about ten minutes of playing time remaining.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto Star, December 11, 1912
Fred Taylor, the sensation of the N. H. A. for many years, stood out head and shoulders above every other player on the ice. Other players who showed exceptional class were: Eddie Oatman, late of Quebec, *****, of Winnipeg, and Si Griffis, the former Kenora player.
Look at the review of the 1913 NHA/PCHA All-Star Game. Seems Oatman was the only noteworthy western player on a team that featured Taylor and The Patricks:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Globe and Mail, March 27, 1913
Nighbor and Ross played a brilliant game for the Easterners, while Oatman was the only Westerner who played a good game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto Star, February 8, 1913
In the last period Griffis and Oatman came together and both were sent off for ten minutes for fighting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto Star, December 17, 1915
As a sequel to the fistic battle which was staged between Cully Wilson, who had the reputation of being the “bad man” of hockey in the East last season, and Eddie Oatman in Seattle Tuesday night, a warning went out from the office of President Frank Patrick yesterday that a repetition of such a scene would bring down a suspension, with the possibility of a more drastic penalty
Wilson, of the Seattle club, and Oatman, of Portland, collided shortly after the opening of the final period, both being sent off for fifteen minutes each and fined. Several stitches were necessary to repare Wilson’s anatomy and Oatman’s head.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Times, March 26, 1916
Lalonde of the Montreal team and Johnson and Oatman of Portland were threatened with arrest for striking eachother with sticks and fists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Times, April 5, 1916
Moose Johnson, with Oatman as his chief assistant, made many daring and spectacular raids on the Canadien cage.

Half a minute later Oatman stole up while the whole Canadien team was gathered up in a convention around the cage and jabbed the puck through with the point of his stick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto Star, January 4, 1917
Randall and Oatman tried to compete for the “Bad Man” championship held for so many years by Joe Hall. They only succeeded in getting in wrong with everybody. The public likes good, hard, square body-checking, but not slashing and chopping, and cross-checking with the stick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto Star, January 8, 1917
Oatman and G. McNamara each accounted for two, while Arbour and Prodgers bulged the twine on passes from Oatman…Scoring six goals for his team, “Goldie” Prodgers was the star of the evening. He was closely followed by Eddie Oatman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Daily Mail, January 11, 1917
For the Soldiers, Eddie Oatman stood out among the remainder of the team, except ********. Oatman's stickhandling was first rate, but he received little to no support from his wings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto Star, Feb 8, 1917
Noble and Skinner outlasted their checks and were going great guns at the finish. For the soldiers, Oatman played a horse of a game. He did a prodigious amount of work and was always dangerous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto Star, January 23, 1919
With but 51 seconds separating the two clubs from an overtime contest, Eddie Oatman, the leader of the visitors, snagged a pass from Dunderdale and banged the rubber past Goaler C. Holmes for the point that won the fastest battle of the year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto Star, March 18, 1922
Eddie Oatman and Ernie Parkes did the relief work, and both were good. Oatman has speed and a shot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto Star, March 24, 1922
The Cameron-Oatman argument was certainly a dandy while it lasted. Oatman smothered a Cameron rush rather rudely, and the Irish defenser objected by clouting Oatman one in the ribs. Oatman raced at him, knocked him down, and then patted him on the head with his stick, raising a hickey about the size of a powder puff. The coast boy was inclined to (parcel?) more of Cammy’s sparse hair when Noble horned in with a cross-check behind Oatman’s ear that laid him flat on the ice. Referee Smeaton, who is a husky chap, tossed Noble to one side and waved the original battlers to the bench for a 10-minute term and fined them $15 each.
Duncan and Randall were already in the skookum house for mussing each other about a bit, so that left it four a side. With the ice cleared the coast people had lots of room to manoeuvre in, and they kept Roach as busy as a one-armed paperhanger in flytime, but they did not get one by until 18 minutes had passed and sides were normal again. Oatman got that one. The Irish were thoroughly beaten at this point and just filled in the time.
Adams and Skinner and Oatman were the firebrands of the forward line, and the all played swell hockey...
And a few quotes from when Oatman was a 41-year old man playing in Buffalo. He was still a prominent player, and the leader of the team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Daily Tribune, December 26, 1930
The Buffaloes made it 3-0 when St. John rammed one home after taking a pass from Oatman.

...a few seconds later, Oatman sought to use his blade on Timmins...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Daily Tribune, January 12, 1931
Oatman broke away from a melee mid-rink and skated into the Green defense, where Mulligan and Headley bodychecked him. Clayton came racing back, bumping Eddie out of a falling posture to a skating position, and Eddie went through to pick it up in front of Timmins. It was a simple matter to score as timmins lurched out to smother the shot.

Two minutes later again oatman came down and went to the side, passing back to Heyd on the other side. Heyd made a short pass to St. John, and he likewise fired it in.
Oatman's Legacy

Oatman was already touted as the longest-playing pro player ever, but the Chicago newspaper wasn't aware he was still playing in Saskatchewan:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Daily Tribune, December 19, 1936
The longest hockey career on record is attributed to Eddie Oatman, who started as an amteur in (1907) and finished with (Duluth) in (1939)
Oatman's not in the Hall. Is he just a guy who played with a bunch of hall of famers?

Far from it. Oatman was considered a star in his own right, and he had remarkably little support from other HHOF forwards, so he is in fact the complete opposite of "a guy who played with a bunch of hall of famers". See the below chart indicating how often all of the HHOF PCHA forwards and rovers (and Bernie Morris, because we all know he is as good as those guys) played on the same team as eachother: (need to play 10 games to be considered a "season played")

I did not include Jack Walker. Despite being in the HHOF, he was not an offensive catalyst and he would only skew the results of the other HHOF players in this chart. Ditto Jimmy Gardner who played one PCHA season with Oatman at the end of his career, in which he had 7 points. Tommy Dunderdale's 1923 season is also excluded as he was at the end, scoring 2 goals in 27 games as a sub. All other "eligible seasons" counted saw the player score at least 9 points, 70 of the 78 with 15+ so these are all good seasons by good players we are talking about. Harry Hyland is excluded simply because he had no effect on the other players - he played one PCHA season with no HHOF help.

Name Elig. Seasons TD EO FFo MM BM CT BS FFr JA GR FB FN DP NL TP DI Total Help from HHOFers Per Season Incl. Oatman
Gord Roberts 3 0 0 1 1 1 2 2 0 1 N/A 0 0 0 0 0 0 8 2.7 2.7
Barney Stanley 4 0 0 0 4 0 4 N/A 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 10 2.5 2.5
Frank Nighbor 2 0 0 0 1 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 N/A 1 0 0 0 4 2.0 2.0
Didier Pitre 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 N/A 0 0 0 2 2.0 2.0
Cyclone Taylor 8 0 0 0 5 0 N/A 4 0 1 2 0 2 1 0 0 0 15 1.9 1.9
Mickey MacKay 9 0 0 0 N/A 0 5 4 0 2 1 2 1 0 0 0 0 15 1.7 1.7
Jack Adams 3 0 0 0 2 0 1 0 0 N/A 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 1.3 1.3
Bernie Morris 8 1 0 7 0 N/A 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 1.1 1.1
Frank Boucher 2 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 N/A 0 0 0 0 0 2 1.0 1.0
Neswy Lalonde 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 N/A 1 0 1 1.0 1.0
Tommy Phillips 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 N/A 0 1 1.0 1.0
Dick Irvin 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 N/A 1 1.0 1.0
Eddie Oatman 10 6 N/A 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 0.9 0.9
Frank Foyston 9 0 0 N/A 0 7 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 8 0.9 0.9
Frank Fredrickson 4 2 3 0 0 0 0 0 N/A 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0.5 1.3
Tommy Dunderdale 11 N/A 6 0 0 1 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 4 0.4 0.9

The list is sorted by number of HHOF forward teammates per season (that column does not include seasons with Oatman as a teammate; the next column does). Dunderdale had the least help among these players, with "only" Oatman to get him the puck most years. Frank Fredrickson had the second least, with just two seasons of Dunderdale, plus Oatman. If you include Oatman as someone who "helped" Dunderdale and Fredrickson (and you should), then Oatman, with 0.9 top players up front per season, had the least offensive help throughout his PCHA career, along with Dunderdale and Foyston.

How much did Dunderdale help Oatman?

Tommy Dunderdale and Eddie Oatman played together for six seasons. Dunderdale and Oatman were born just two years apart so they were at fairly the same points developmentally in the years that they played together. Here are their combined stats from those six seasons:

Dunderdale: 126-81-37-118
Oatman: 119-59-56-115

Dunderdale was scoring 30% more goals per game than Oatman, but Oatman was also getting 60% more assists per game than Dunderdale. Oatman actually had a slightly higher points-per-game average.

Furthermore, aside from 1912, when there were no assists recorded, the PCHA gave out assists at the rate of 0.47 per goal. This put playmakers like Oatman at a disadvantage as far as point production went - one's point production would be heavily driven by their goalscoring, not their playmaking. Oatman was a much better playmaker than goalscorer, and Dunderdale the opposite. In modern times, with assists given out three times more often than they were then, their stats may have looked like this:

Dunderdale: 126-81-111-192
Oatman: 119-59-168-227

Then, would you be so sure of who the better player was?

Oatman's place in PCHA History

Oatman played on some mediocre teams, but it's been shown that he was still known as a star individually and he did not leech off of his HHOF linemate. He was a tough little player with good skills and clearly known as a leader and team player. Offensively, how did his PCHA numbers shake out when all was said and done?

Name GP G A Pts PIM GPG APG PPG Best 5 G Best-5 A Best-5 Pts
Cyclone Taylor 130 159 104 263 65 1.22 0.80 2.02 1, 1, 1, 2, 2 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
Tommy Dunderdale 241 194 60 254 494 0.80 0.25 1.05 1, 1, 1, 3, 6 3, 4, 5, 6, 6 1, 1, 3, 3, 5
Smokey Harris 252 156 90 246 416 0.62 0.36 0.98 2, 3, 5, 6, 7 1, 1, 2, 2, 4 1, 2, 3, 4, 7
Mickey MacKay 192 159 82 241 193 0.83 0.43 1.26 1, 1, 2, 5, 6 1, 2, 2, 2, 4 2, 2, 2, 3, 5
Bernie Morris 167 155 76 231 137 0.93 0.46 1.38 1, 2, 2, 2, 4 1, 2, 2, 2, 3 1, 2, 2, 2, 4
Frank Foyston 202 174 53 227 133 0.86 0.26 1.12 1, 1, 2, 3, 4 5, 5, 7, 8, 11 2, 3, 3, 4, 4
Eddie Oatman 195 129 81 210 278 0.66 0.42 1.08 3, 3, 4, 5, 6 1, 3, 4, 4, 5 3, 3, 4, 4, 6
Jack Walker 186 82 58 140 31 0.44 0.31 0.75 4, 7, 9, 9, 11 3, 4, 4, 4, 6 4, 8, 9, 9, 10
Frank Fredrickson 105 93 46 139 83 0.89 0.44 1.32 1, 3, 4, 4, DNP 1, 2, 2, 3, DNP 1, 2, 2, 3, DNP

This list is sorted by career points. Note that Oatman falls just short of Frank Foyston in this category, but 50% ahead of the next-highest, Jack Walker, a hall of famer.

Playmaking was Oatman's specialty. Check out the assists per game column. Note that Oatman is well behind Cyclone Taylor, along with everyone else, but right there with Bernie Morris, the 2nd-best offensive player in PCHA history, Mickey MacKay, a bonafide superstar, and Frank Fredrickson, another HHOFer who played probably his four best seasons in the PCHA. Oatman is also the only one whose stats include some games played as a defenseman, which assumedly hindered his production.

It's time Oatman got the respect he deserves. Most other western stars were picked about 20% earlier than last draft, and rightly so, but Regina was fortunate to get Oatman 10% later than last draft. We'll take him on our 4th line anyday, thank you.


Last edited by seventieslord: 01-19-2010 at 07:37 PM.
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Old
11-13-2009, 02:24 PM
  #157
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I have recorded that 948 picks have been made, meaning 12 are not made. But I see 18 skipped picks on the board. Is it just not updated, or am I confused? It gets so hard to keep track of at this point.

756 papershoes - Kenora Thistles - SKIPPED
793 papershoes - Kenora Thistles - SKIPPPED
794 papershoes - Kenora Thistles - SKIPPPED
871 papershoes - Kenora Thistles - SKIPPED
872 papershoes - Kenora Thistles - SKIPPED
873 Stalberg - Halifax Mooseheads - SKIPPED
874 Stalberg - Halifax Mooseheads - SKIPPED
885 Reds4Life - Trinec Steelers - ASKED TO BE SKIPPED
886 Reds4Life - Trinec Steelers - ASKED TO BE SKIPPED
898 TheDevilMadeMe - New Jersey Swamp Devils - Asked to be skipped
907 Reds4Life - Trinec Steelers - Asked to be skipped
908 Reds4Life - Trinec Steelers - Asked to be skipped
919 Stalberg - Halifax Mooseheads - SKIPPED
920 Stalberg - Halifax Mooseheads - SKIPPED
921 papershoes - Kenora Thistles - SKIPPED
922 papershoes - Kenora Thistles - SKIPPED
937 chaosrevolver - Montreal Maroons - SKIPPED
938 chaosrevolver - Montreal Maroons - SKIPPED

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11-13-2009, 02:33 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I have recorded that 948 picks have been made, meaning 12 are not made. But I see 18 skipped picks on the board. Is it just not updated, or am I confused? It gets so hard to keep track of at this point.

756 papershoes - Kenora Thistles - SKIPPED
793 papershoes - Kenora Thistles - SKIPPPED
794 papershoes - Kenora Thistles - SKIPPPED
871 papershoes - Kenora Thistles - SKIPPED
872 papershoes - Kenora Thistles - SKIPPED
873 Stalberg - Halifax Mooseheads - SKIPPED
874 Stalberg - Halifax Mooseheads - SKIPPED
885 Reds4Life - Trinec Steelers - ASKED TO BE SKIPPED
886 Reds4Life - Trinec Steelers - ASKED TO BE SKIPPED
898 TheDevilMadeMe - New Jersey Swamp Devils - Asked to be skipped
907 Reds4Life - Trinec Steelers - Asked to be skipped
908 Reds4Life - Trinec Steelers - Asked to be skipped
919 Stalberg - Halifax Mooseheads - SKIPPED
920 Stalberg - Halifax Mooseheads - SKIPPED
921 papershoes - Kenora Thistles - SKIPPED
922 papershoes - Kenora Thistles - SKIPPED
937 chaosrevolver - Montreal Maroons - SKIPPED
938 chaosrevolver - Montreal Maroons - SKIPPED
I picked Sergei Brylin, F with my "skipped" pick.

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11-13-2009, 02:42 PM
  #159
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Good Oatman bio.

Question: We've seen the Toronto Star give two players who previously we had little go by outside of stats (Skinner, Oatman) a good glimpse in how they played. Do those old newspapers give anything on how Harris played?

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11-13-2009, 03:08 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
Good Oatman bio.

Question: We've seen the Toronto Star give two players who previously we had little go by outside of stats (Skinner, Oatman) a good glimpse in how they played. Do those old newspapers give anything on how Harris played?
overpass would have to answer re: The Toronto Star, but as for the Globe and Mail, you can check that out yourself online.

google "globe and mail canada's heritage" - you'll find it.

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11-13-2009, 03:38 PM
  #161
overpass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
Good Oatman bio.

Question: We've seen the Toronto Star give two players who previously we had little go by outside of stats (Skinner, Oatman) a good glimpse in how they played. Do those old newspapers give anything on how Harris played?
The Toronto Star has very detailed accounts of Stanley Cup games in which a Toronto team played. I found their accounts of the 1918 and 1922 finals to be a good source, and they were the main sources for Skinner in particular.

They also have much more throughout the season on the NHA, especially Toronto games, although it's harder to find info on specific players. Unfortunately they don't have much on the western leagues, and what they have tends to focus more on former eastern/NHA stars, especially from Toronto. This suggests to me that it's likely that there isn't as much on Harris in Toronto papers.

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11-13-2009, 03:50 PM
  #162
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well 70's

My interest in expanding the draft beyond a 1000 players is to be a Part off something new that has never been doen b4. We would also make other gm's be a part of it and soeme og whom may just pick payers that the yfeel are good enough to be picked insteadof follwoing past drafts and selections made by some of the newer gms like yourself.

I was in the origional minor drafts but haven't been in one in a few yrs because I like the down time. I do have a young family! One of my boys is in minor hockey and the other is a busy 4 1/2 month old baby

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11-13-2009, 03:51 PM
  #163
jarek
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Ultimately, the best bet is for you to travel to Seattle, Vancouver or Victoria and check their libraries. Either that, or find a library that will transfer those articles to their own for your viewing.

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11-13-2009, 04:01 PM
  #164
Leafs Forever
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Couldn't find anything at the globe..oh well, thanks anyways guys.

Don't live in those areas, and I'm not a fan of libraries..

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11-13-2009, 04:02 PM
  #165
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http://www.britishcolonist.ca/advancedSearch.php

It's so annoying that they only went to 1910 with this. So, so annoying. Otherwise, we may have had a veritable gold mine for information on the PCHA players that played for Victoria.

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11-13-2009, 04:06 PM
  #166
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hey folks, my apologies for having so many missed picks - things have been rather crazy lately with family and work etc...

anyways, here are the kenora thistles skipped picks...

stu barnes (rw)
michel larocque(g)
bret hedican (d)
dave maloney (d)
shea weber (d)
thomas vanek (lw)
saku koivu (c)

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11-13-2009, 04:16 PM
  #167
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Lander View Post
well 70's

My interest in expanding the draft beyond a 1000 players is to be a Part off something new that has never been doen b4. We would also make other gm's be a part of it and soeme og whom may just pick payers that the yfeel are good enough to be picked insteadof follwoing past drafts and selections made by some of the newer gms like yourself.

I was in the origional minor drafts but haven't been in one in a few yrs because I like the down time. I do have a young family! One of my boys is in minor hockey and the other is a busy 4 1/2 month old baby
It has been done before. ATDs 10 and 11 went well beyond pick 1000 with some of our most furious researchers/diggers such as Hedberg, VI and myself scouring history for that "next-best" player.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at when you say "may just pick payers that the yfeel are good enough to be picked insteadof follwoing past drafts and selections made by some of the newer gms like yourself." but let me just stress that having "worked with" those guys I am very confident in our ability to leave no stone unturned, so please forgive us for raising our eyebrows at picks like McCool and Hiller. We've been 1200 picks deep, we've argued and hashed it out, we have a pretty good handle on what the pecking order looks like. For what it's worth, both Hedberg and I admitted that Hiller would make a pretty good AAA player, so yes, although you took him far too early, we are also guilty of overlooking him. (hopefully this is what you're referring to, otherwise I am just blabbing)

We won't get past 1000 players in one continuous, unbroken draft unless we have 42 teams - I don't think this will happen. This was a full ATD with a short MLD tacked on, essentially.

Do you really still consider me a "new" GM after all this time? (I'm pretty sure I'm among the few to have been in every ATD, MLD, AAA and AA draft since ATD8 - possibly CR and Hedberg too, but I'm not sure.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jareklajkosz View Post
http://www.britishcolonist.ca/advancedSearch.php

It's so annoying that they only went to 1910 with this. So, so annoying. Otherwise, we may have had a veritable gold mine for information on the PCHA players that played for Victoria.
What a tease!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
Couldn't find anything at the globe..oh well, thanks anyways guys.

Don't live in those areas, and I'm not a fan of libraries..
Try some other search methods. Perhaps use just the word harris. if you get too many results, try searching just on "page content sports" - don't search the actual sports section - you'll get nothing.

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11-13-2009, 04:24 PM
  #168
seventieslord
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I now have 955 picks recorded which means we are 5 short, but I still see 10 skipped picks:

873 Stalberg - Halifax Mooseheads - SKIPPED
874 Stalberg - Halifax Mooseheads - SKIPPED
885 Reds4Life - Trinec Steelers - ASKED TO BE SKIPPED
886 Reds4Life - Trinec Steelers - ASKED TO BE SKIPPED
907 Reds4Life - Trinec Steelers - Asked to be skipped
908 Reds4Life - Trinec Steelers - Asked to be skipped
919 Stalberg - Halifax Mooseheads - SKIPPED
920 Stalberg - Halifax Mooseheads - SKIPPED
937 chaosrevolver - Montreal Maroons - SKIPPED
938 chaosrevolver - Montreal Maroons - SKIPPED

I must have missed 5 of these being made up. Can anyone explain?

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11-13-2009, 04:29 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Do you really still consider me a "new" GM after all this time? (I'm pretty sure I'm among the few to have been in every ATD, MLD, AAA and AA draft since ATD8 - possibly CR and Hedberg too, but I'm not sure.)
I only started the MLDs with ATD 10

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11-13-2009, 05:43 PM
  #170
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Leaf Lander...

ATD13 in January has all the time in the world to involve 1000 picks and, most importantly, it could be specified in the rules before the draft starts.

ATD12 is a 30-round draft that WILL be entirely done, playoffs and all, BEFORE the Christmas season. We should get a FULL month off between the ATD12 final and the start of ATD13.

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11-13-2009, 06:55 PM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Leaf Lander...

ATD13 in January has all the time in the world to involve 1000 picks and, most importantly, it could be specified in the rules before the draft starts.

ATD12 is a 30-round draft that WILL be entirely done, playoffs and all, BEFORE the Christmas season. We should get a FULL month off between the ATD12 final and the start of ATD13.
I 100% second this post.

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11-13-2009, 10:52 PM
  #172
chaosrevolver
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With our last two picks..we will pick a tough defenseman who was said to have the toughest elbows until Gordie Howe came along...and we will also select a modern, dominant, flashy scorer who if not for injuries would have reached 100 points by now without a doubt. Even still he has some impressive statistics..

D - Reg Hamilton


RW - Marian Gaborik

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11-13-2009, 10:55 PM
  #173
seventieslord
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Looks like Stalberg's picks were made, but are just not yet recorded.

I now have 957 picks recorded which means we are 3 short, but I still see 4 skipped picks:

885 Reds4Life - Trinec Steelers - ASKED TO BE SKIPPED
886 Reds4Life - Trinec Steelers - ASKED TO BE SKIPPED
907 Reds4Life - Trinec Steelers - Asked to be skipped
908 Reds4Life - Trinec Steelers - Asked to be skipped

Now I am really confused. Maybe I have someone listed as picked, but they're not? Either that, or RFL has made just one of his 4 skipped picks.


Last edited by seventieslord: 11-13-2009 at 11:21 PM.
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11-14-2009, 12:18 AM
  #174
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With our 21st selection, the 668th overall in this year All-Time Draft, the Detroit Falcons are extremely please to select Monsieur Father David Bauer



Date of Birth: November 02, 1924
Place of Birth: Waterloo, Canada
Date of Death: November 09, 1988 (Age: 64)

Memorial Cup Champion (1961)
Order of Canada (1967)
Olympics Bronze Medal (1968)
Inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame (1989)
IIHF Hall of Fame (1997)

- Brother of Hall of Famer Bobby Bauer
- One incident stood out as measure of the Canadian coach's character. During a game versus Sweden, one of the opposing players cross-checked a Canadian skater, broke his stick and threw the handle at the bench, striking Father Bauer in the forehead. The enraged Canadian players were about to jump over the bench when they were stopped by one sharp command from their coach. The next evening, Bauer invited the Swedish player to watch a hockey game with him. Following the competition, the Canadian coach was presented a gold medal for exemplary leadership.
- Between 1963 and 1969 Bauer worked to implement a national junior team
- Bauer is having an arena named after him in Calgary to serve as the home base of the national team (1986) and a bursary in his name at St. Michael's College (1987)
- He passed away of cancer on November 9,1988 at the age of 64


Quote:
Originally Posted by HHOF
A short list of the most significant contributors to Canadian amateur and international hockey would include Father David Bauer. His devotion to the ideals of sportsmanship and fair play was equalled only by his belief in individual nurturing through self-discipline and teamwork on the ice.

Following his ordination in 1953, Bauer returned to St. Mike's as a teacher and the coach of the junior team. He guided the school to the Memorial Cup in 1961 and developed many players who went on to the Toronto Maple Leafs including Frank Mahovlich and Dave Keon.

Following the Memorial Cup win, Bauer took a position at St. Mark's College at the University of British Columbia. It was during this time that he began to think seriously about putting together a national team of the top amateurs from across Canada. He presented his idea at the annual meeting of the Canadian Amateur Hockey Association in 1962 and it was accepted.

The first test of the national team came at the 1964 winter Olympics in Innsbruck, Austria. Bauer's influence was vividly evident at this tournament. The Canadians finished fourth on goal difference but competed passionately and as a close-knit unit. Future NHL regulars on the squad included Brian Conacher, Rod Seiling and Marshall Johnston.

Between 1969 and 1979, when Canada withdrew from international hockey because it was not allowed to use its best NHL players, Bauer shared his knowledge with lesser hockey playing nations.

His on-ice expertise and outlook on personal growth through sports was readily accepted in the disciplined Japanese culture. In 1973 he went to Austria for a year at the request of the Austrian Ice Hockey Federation, which feared that its national team would be demoted from "B" to "C" pool. He led the Austrians to a fifth place finish at the "B" pool championships that year which allowed them to keep their place in that level of competition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HHOF Spotlight
Father David Bauer has been described as an inspirational coach, a caring educator, a master motivator and a dreamer. He was devoted to the concept that education and hockey could mix. He viewed hockey as a means to develop a better person. He believed that building men came before building hockey players.
''Dave Bauer was a class act all the way. He could've been a good one. He had more determination than his brother Bobby. I played against Bobby, he was finesse. Dave was more grinding, He had all kinds of talent, and when it came to determination, no one was better. He would've made it to the NHL easily if he had wanted to.'' - John McCormack, a teammate with the Majors

- ''We try to give our players a well-rounded education, not merely ice skills but mental and moral conditioning as well. We can't help but be better off in the long run.'' - Father David Bauer


Sites:
http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...t=ByName#photo
http://www.sihrhockey.org/member_pla...d=63123&mode=0
http://www.legendsofhockey.net/html/...oneb198901.htm

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11-14-2009, 12:18 AM
  #175
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With our 22nd selection, the 677th overall in this year All-Time Draft, the Detroit Falcons are pleased to select Reginald Stephen Fleming



Nickname: The Ruffian, Mr. Clean
Height: 5'10''
Weight: 190 lbs
Position: Left Wing / Defense
Shoots: Left
Date of Birth: April 21, 1936
Place of Birth: Montreal, Canada
Date of Death: July 11, 2009 (Age: 73)

Stanley Cup Champion (1961)
Stanley Cup Finalist (1962)
Played in NHL All Star Game (1961)

Top-10 Penalty Minutes (1st, 2nd, 2nd, 5th, 7th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 10th)
Top-10 Playoff Penalty Minutes (2nd, 2nd)

- In 1961, Fleming earn a record 37 minutes of penalty as a rookie, a record later broken
- Reggie Fleming was nickanamed "Mr. Clean" by his teammates, because of his bullnecked, crew cut appearance that resembled the mascot for the famous cleaning product
- According to Dropyourgloves.com, Reggie Fleming fought 88 times in his NHL career

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Pelletier
He was a highly effective utility forward though he originally was a defenseman. Born in Montreal, Fleming spent most of his junior and minor league career playing defense. However due to his small size (5'8" 170lbs) he was converted to a left wing for much of his NHL career. With his decent speed and physical, hustling style he was an extraordinary penalty killer. Another reason for his great penalty killing was he was a superb defensive forward, as many players are once they are converted from the blueline to the forward position. Fleming already had a great understanding of defensive positioning by the time he moved up.

He was also a pesky player. He loved to get under the skin of the opponents, disrupting them from their game, thus giving his team a much better chance of victory. The opposition hated him, but Chicago fans loved him.

Fleming will forever be remembered as one of hockey's most ferocious competitors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HHOF
Reg Fleming was a hard-nosed player for six teams between 1959-60 and 1970-71. He was able to play defence and left-wing while providing grit and a bit of offense in his 749-game career. Although he wasn't the biggest player on the ice, his guile and combative will bettered many an adversary.

In June 1960 he was part of an exchange of fringe players and prospects between the Habs and the Chicago Black Hawks. Fleming played 66 games as a rookie in 1960-61 and his physical presence played a role in the Hawks' Stanley Cup triumph that spring. Fleming scored a critical goal in the sixth game of the final series win over the Detroit Red Wings and set up Bobby Hull when he hit the 50-goal mark for the first time the next season. He was a popular player in Chicago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
His professional career spanned over 20 years. He was known as an aggressive and combative player who could play both forward and defence, as well as kill penalties.

His rugged style of play earned him a three game tryout with the Canadiens late in the 1959-60 season.

Fleming played four full seasons on a talented Chicago club alongside stars like Bobby Hull, Stan Mikita, Glenn Hall and Pierre Pilote. Fleming's aggressive style of play added an important physical presence to the Blackhawks and helped the team win the Stanley Cup for the 1960-61 season. A popular player with Chicago, he was known for his grit and team spirit. His involvement in a number of notorious incidents gave him a reputation around the league as a tough customer and an intense competitor.

Although a popular and consistent performer with the Rangers, he was sent to the Philadelphia Flyers for the 1969-70 season. His experience and combativeness helped the small and unaggressive Flyers team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Tribute, July 12, 2009
Regarded as a tough-as-nails defenseman who accrued 1,468 penalty minutes in 749 career games, Fleming was particularly valuable as a penalty-killer. He also set what was then a single-game NHL record for penalty minutes as a rookie with the Hawks during a contest against the New York Rangers.

Although he was an accomplished defenseman, many NHL observers believe Fleming scored arguably the single most important goal in team history. In 1961, the Hawks were one victory away from winning the Stanley Cup title. In Game 6, Detroit took a 1-0 lead on a power play in the second period. Detroit appeared to be increasing its momentum, closing in on Hawk goalie Glenn Hall. Then, as center Alex Delvecchio passed the puck to right winger Gordie Howe, Fleming intercepted it and scored a breakaway goal. After Fleming’s game-tying goal, the Hawks went on to score four more en route to grabbing the Stanley Cup, the team’s last title.
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York Times, November 14, 2009
In an era when guys who were frequent fighters could actually play hockey, Reggie was an effective and enthusiastic pugilist, a very reliable defensive player who — especially during his years with the Rangers — showed he could score a bit as well.
- ''I never was a teammate of his. When I came to Chicago [in 1969] he was gone, but I played against him for a number of years and socialized with the guy in the summer. He was always around Chicago. What I remember about him most is that when he was on the ice, he was an unbelievable competitor, a very physical presence. Off the ice, he was a great guy and he would do anything for anybody.'' - Tony Esposito

- ''He’ll be remembered for his fiery personality and his support for this franchise which did not waiver in good times or in bad.'' - Chicago Blackhawks chairman Rocky Wirtz

Sites:
http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=12603
http://www.sihrhockey.org/member_pla...id=1138&mode=0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reg_Fleming
http://blackhawkslegends.blogspot.co...e-fleming.html
http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2...hawks-webjul12
http://www.dropyourgloves.com/Player...px?Player=1343
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...e-fleming.html
Videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjHnL...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA-LQGkA1QI
http://www.youtube.com/user/flem44#p/u/4/jp_Ustz0QCQ



-----------------------------------------------------

Reggie Fleming died on July 11th, 2009 at the age of 73. Five years earlier, Fleming suffered a heart attack that paralysed him. He couldn’t move, he couldn’t feed himself, he couldn’t do anything for five years, but his heart mind and memories were still intact. His son Chris made a series of interview with his dad to show a side of Reggie Fleming that few outside the hockey world knew. Those interviews are touching and moving, and I hope some of you will take time to look at them; they are worth the time.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knhB1_GxROo (Part II)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIWtolESHas (Part III)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qy8V...rom=PL&index=1 (Part IV)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctoq0...x=0&playnext=1 (Part V)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE1yX...FA482F&index=5 (Part VI)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lEr-...FA482F&index=2 (Part VII)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9ASngJvxMc (Part VIII)


Last edited by EagleBelfour: 11-14-2009 at 12:37 AM.
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