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All-Time Draft #12 Line-up Assassination Thread

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Old
11-14-2009, 11:49 AM
  #251
God Bless Canada
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Ottawa 67s review...

Time to get one in before I head out...

*Obviously VanI was put in a tough spot, taking over for an absentee GM. VanI was left with a team that has a high-end skill level, but could have some issues in their own zone.
*I'd probably switch the top two LWs around just from a skill and style perspective. Stevens is a cut above Mahovlich offensively and he gives that first line a big-body, power forward presence. Mahovlich plays a better two-way game and he'd be a nice compliment to the styles of Clarke and Alfie.
*The flip side is if you go with the status quo, both lines would probably be able to play against the opposition's best, even though Stevens wasn't much to write about in his own zone, and Hull made cameo appearances in his own zone.
*Cup wanted a third scoring line, and you inherited it. It has some good toughness, though. Mogilny is far from a Babcock-type player, but there won't be a more skilled or dynamic third line player in the draft. There also isn't a more indifferent third liner in the draft.
*Good checking line, although with Oates and Clarke centring your top two lines, you didn't necessarily need a stellar two-way line.
*There is a drop-off after Horton on D. It's not a precipitous drop, a MadArcand-level drop, but it's a drop. Horton's a strong No. 1. Suter's an excellent No. 3 being asked to play a No. 2 role. As far as No. 3's go, Suter's one of the best all-round guys you can find. Just not sure if he's there as a No. 2.
*Gonchar as a first-pairing guy is a reach, even if he's playing with Horton.
*Good on you for relegating Iafrate. He had HHOF potential. This big, ultra-mobile, hard-shooting, tough defenceman who could dominate a game seemingly on a whim. But his performance on the ice mirrored his enigmatic persona off the ice. He's a boom or bust proposition in an ATD. Much like the NHL, the guys who are boom or bust usually bust.
*Hainsworth's a polarizing guy. Some look at the pre-29 accomplishments and slot him among the best goalies ever. Others look at the post-29 years - when he was never named an all-star - and hold that against him. Keep in mind he was into his 30s once the rules changed and the game changed in such a big way with them. Good enough to be a No. 1. In the Gump Worsley/Tiny Thompson class of goalies.
*I think Babcock's the best coach in the game today. He's going to love a 1-2 punch like Oates and Clarke. And he's going to love having gritty players like Clarke, Roenick, Mahovlich, Stevens and Hatfield on his team. Hull and Mogilny, that could be another story. Especially Mogs, whose extended stretches of apathy for most of his career really diminish his value in this format.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
COMPLETED
Ottawa 67's

Coach: Mike Babcock

Pete Mahovlich - Adam Oates - Brett Hull
Kevin Stevens - Bobby Clarke - Daniel Alfredsson
Vic Hadfield - Jeremy Roenick - Alexander Mogilny
Wayne Merrick - Brent Sutter - Jack Findlay
Jimmy Gardner, Slim Halderson

Tim Horton - Sergei Gonchar
Gary Suter - Steve Smith
Dickie Boon - "Taffy" Abel
Al Iafrate

George Hainsworth
Henrik Lundqvist

the call-up squad: Bob Probert, Vladimir Myshkin, Slava Bykov, Andrei Khomutov, Marty Burke, Bruce Ridpath

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Old
11-14-2009, 11:51 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Canadiens Fan View Post
For what it's worth, in the last ATD I had Magnuson as my sixth defenseman and people questioned whether he belonged.

As for him being on the first defensive pairing in this ATD ???
He's certainly at home on a bottom pairing. This said, apart from...maybe shot blocking, I don't know why he's picked some hundred ranks ahead of Phil Russell. Somebody could enlighten me on this?

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Old
11-14-2009, 12:07 PM
  #253
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Toronto Toros review...

*Time for one more....

*I said it before, I'll say it again: Jean Beliveau on a pappy squad? Is nothing sacred anymore?
*But that first line is awesome. Beliveau and Olmstead: reunited and it feels so good. Bathgate's a fantastic offensive weapon - lethal as both a goal-scorer and a playmaker. It's a big, tough, well-rounded line with one of the best complimentary players, Olmstead, in the draft. One of the best first lines out there, and one that will be very tough to play against.
*People question whether Tardif and Nilsson are second liners. And with just cause. Tardif's best years were in the WHA. He's a hard guy to read because of that. Nobody knows what he would have done at a higher level in 76 or 78. Nilsson's in a similar boat. Both guys were tailor-made for the run-and-gun WHA. They had some success in the NHL, but they didn't overwhelm you in the NHL like they did in the WHA. The good news is both players bring more to the table than just offence. And they won't be asked to be the guy on this line. That honours belongs to the very fast and very skilled Bill Mosienko.
*Tkaczuk and Marshall are very good players for the third line. Balfour would be a consensus top-end third line RW if not for tragedy. As it is, he's a hard-charging, gritty, tough winger for the third line.
*Fourth line will be a plus line. They can score, play against a scoring line, and provide 10-12 minutes of reliable effort a night.
*MacInnis is a solid No. 1, and he has a lot of help. Stanley? Good No. 2. Skating is an issue, but he's good enough to be a No. 2. Flaman? Rock-solid. Also good enough for No. 2 minutes. I praised Suter earlier for bringing everything. Vasko's just as good. He's so valuable to a team with his mobility, his size and his ability to do everything. Good enough to be a top-flite No. 3 in the ATD. You won't find a better No. 4 in this draft.
*This team has to be considered a favourite. In the last 32-team draft, pappy had a team that was a cut above anyone else. It was probably the biggest gap from No. 1 to everyone else in the drafts I've been a part of. This team isn't as strong - it doesn't have the second line that pappy had in ATD 9. But this team is strong.
*With Mac, Stanley, Sjoberg and Vakso, a good first pass out of the defensive zone won't be an issue.
*Lumley's underrated, but he's still a bottom-tier goalie. He won't hurt a team, though.
*Gorman's a good second-tier coach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pappyline View Post
TORONTO TOROS

Coach: Tommy Gorman
Assistant Coach Trainer:Lloyd Percival

Bert Olmstead-Jean Beliveau(C)-Andy Bathgate
Marc Tardiff-Ulf Nilsson -Bill Mosienko
Donnie Marshall-Walt Tkaczuk-Murray Balfour
Ab McDonald-Fred Stanfield-Vic Stasiuk
Bronco Horvath

Allan Stanley- Al Macinnis(A)
Elmer "Moose" Vasko-Fern Flaman(A)
Lars-Erik Sjoberg-Doug Barkley
Paul Shmyr

Harry Lumley
Al Rollins

PP1
Bert Olmstead-Jean Beliveau(C)-Andy Bathgate
Lars-Erik Sjoberg-Al MacInnes

PP2
Marc Tardiff-Ulf Nilsson -Bill Mosienko
Fred Stanfield-Doug Barkley

Pk1
Donnie Marshall-Walt Tkaczuk
Allan Stanley- Al Macinnis

Pk2
Fred Stanfield-Murray Balfour
Elmer "Moose" Vasko-Fern Flaman

Call-Ups
Nick Mickoski-George Gee-Chico Maki
Jack "Tex" Evans-Jim Morrison
"Sugar" Jim Henry

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Old
11-14-2009, 12:09 PM
  #254
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Babich and Bowie are both listed as centers, and you are using them as wings, but given the lack of wings you have, I don't see another choice. We'll see how it works out for you. Be prepared to defend their games as translating well as wings. Same with Malkin if you keep him on the wing. But you really shouldn't, as Firsov is a better LW than C.
Babich is RW and only RW. He made the mistake of posting him as a centre when he first drafted Babich (which was incorrect), and it never got changed when he was corrected.

Quote:
broda may be the best playoff goalie ever.
That'd be a stretch with Patrick Roy around, I thinik.


Last edited by Leafs Forever: 11-14-2009 at 12:14 PM.
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Old
11-14-2009, 12:35 PM
  #255
seventieslord
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Originally Posted by Rzeznik View Post
. Hamby Shore was also a pretty good scoring forward as well, so he is obviously pretty good in the offensive end. This could be a minor problem, but I don't see it effecting a series.
Shore was also excellent offensively as a defenseman. He led the NHA once.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens Fan View Post
For what it's worth, in the last ATD I had Magnuson as my sixth defenseman and people questioned whether he belonged.

As for him being on the first defensive pairing in this ATD ???
You were questioned on this before? that seems wrong. I would never, ever question Magnuson as a #6... or a #5. Yes, on a first pairing he's way out of place.

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Old
11-14-2009, 12:38 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
That'd be a stretch with Patrick Roy around, I thinik.
Yeah, I think Broda gets extra clutch credit for being not such a dominant regular season goalie; in other words, the increase in his performance from the regular season to the playoffs seems higher than most, and perhaps it is. But isolating the playoffs alone, I would at least take Roy, Plante, and Dryden ahead of him, perhaps a few more, like Bower too.

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Old
11-14-2009, 01:25 PM
  #257
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Renfrew Millionaires review...

*The first thing I noticed with this team is the tremendous speed of the first line, and the team speed in general. Thereís only one line that I can think of, and thatís Cairoís first line, that has that much speed. Teams that have slower defencemen on their blue line will be exploited. All three are wonderful skaters. The flip side is they donít have a gritty player to provide the crash-and-bang presence. Thatís not to say theyíre soft. But against a team with a defenceman like a Robinson, a Seibert, a Clapper or a Pronger, this line could be in trouble.
*The second line doesnít have that physically dominant player, either, although Elias and Crosby donít need anyone to open up room for them.
*Love the third line. Love the speed and size of Bourne and Primeau. Love that both of them can play centre or the wing. Itís a tandem thatíll cause problems for opponents. And Armstrong is No. 2 or 3 on my list for third line right wing candidates. Heís not fast, but heís big, his anticipation is terrific and his hockey sense is as good as any third line right winger in the draft. One of the best leaders in the draft, too.
*Good to see Simon Gagne and his solid game and great wheels back in the ATD.
*overpass asked if anything should be done to the RW corps. Absolutely not. Your best offensive RW is on your first line. Your second best offensive winger is on your second line. You have an elite third line RW. And Owen Nolan slides nicely into the fourth line RW spot. Unless you think Skinner will score more than Palffy, or bring the attributes of a complimentary winger that Palffy canít bring, Skinner will be a spare forward.
*The defence works. There isnít an elite guy for his role, other than possibly Griffis at No. 3. But thereís an okay No. 1 (Howe), a very good No. 2 (Kasatonov), a decent No. 4 (Egan), and then solid third pairing guys (Numinnen and Ramsey) who can play against an opponentís top line and not be exploited. Ramseyís the only one who isnít going to make the great first pass; all six of them take pretty good care of their own zone. If thereís a defence whose sum is greater than its parts, this one is probably it.
*If Giguereís upset with his role in Anaheim now, wait till he finds out his role in Renfrew: open the bench door and pat guys on the back while Dominik Hasek puts on a show 65-70 times a year.
*I like Reay as a coach. Heís the only coach that Dennis Hull ever played for, at least according to Hull. Itís not Reayís fault Esposito couldnít stop a shot from centre ice in Game 7 of the Stanley Cup final.

Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
The Renfrew Millionaires are complete.

Coach: Billy Reay

Valeri Kharlamov - Sergei Fedorov - Rod Gilbert
Patrik Elias - Sidney Crosby - Ziggy Palffy
Bob Bourne - Keith Primeau - George Armstrong (C)
Simon Gagne - Vladimir Shadrin - Owen Nolan
Alf Skinner, Bruce MacGregor

Mark Howe - Alexei Kasatonov
Si Griffis (A) - Pat Egan
Mike Ramsey (A) - Teppo Numminen
Fredrik Olausson

Dominik Hasek
Jean-Sebastien Giguere

Power Play
Kharlamov-Crosby-Gilbert
Howe-Fedorov

Nolan-Shadrin-Palffy
Griffis-Egan

Penalty Killers
Howe-Fedorov
Ramsey-Kasatonov
Hasek

Bourne-Shadrin
Griffis-Numminen
Hasek

Primeau-Armstrong

Minors
Sergei Kapustin - Pavol Demitra - Barney Stanley
Darryl Sydor - Chris Phillips
Dan Bouchard

My current plans on lineup usage:
  • My first line will play big minutes against anyone, preferably against opposing #1 lines
  • While I feel my second line is defensively responsible and I'm not afraid of them getting tough matchups, they will get easier matchups for the most part.
  • My third line will play tough minutes against opposing top lines and take a lot of own-zone draws. Against physical top lines they become the #1 option instead of Fedorov's line.
  • I think my fourth line is a solid two-way line - while they aren't my first choice to go against a top line or take an own-zone draw I'm not afraid of it.
  • As with the forwards, the top defence pairing will see a lot of ice time, significantly more than any other pairing.
  • My second and third pairing will play roughly equal minutes, but the second pairing goes out in more offensive situations and the third pairing in more defensive situations.
  • Primeau will also see time on the power play if we need size in front of the net and faceoff ability - maybe even on the top unit.
  • While Howe-Fedorov is my best pair of forwards on the PK and will be relied on in key spots, they won't be the first pairing all the time in the regular season, to save their legs.

Comments? One thing I'm curious to hear is opinions on my RW's. I'm pretty set on my LW-C pairings, but I can see a few different ways my RW's could go - and some have suggested that Skinner could be a regular as well.

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Old
11-14-2009, 01:43 PM
  #258
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Halifax Mooseheads review...

*Perreault should feel at home on that first line - a gifted goal scorer on one wing(Barber) and a gritty scorer on the other. Granted, Barber's a better two-way winger than Martin, and Broadbent's a more natural producer than Robert. But still, this is a good situation for Perrault. Broadbent should be able to create a lot of room, and havoc, for Perreault.
*Maybe it's just me, but I think Nicholls is a better offensive player than Nieuwendyk. I guess it depends what you're looking for. Nieuwendyk's such a gifted scorer. And a fine two-way player. His hands are so quick, whether they're being used for redirections or face-offs. I don't think Nicholls is as good at scoring goals, or at backchecking, but he's a better offensive player, and a more physical player. He's a better playmaker than Nieuwendyk, and you'll need that playmaking presence with Clark and Verbeek better at scoring goals than setting them up.
*Third line is solid. Nobody who stands out as a top player for their role, except for possibly Parise when it comes to battling in the corners. But they're all really good at what they do. Won't hurt you.
*Bill Gadsby is elite. He's gifted offensively, and he's tough, too. Ask Tim Horton how hard Gadsby hits. The first pairing is simply scary. Gadsby and Pratt can dish out the hard hits. Opponents who fail to keep their heads up could find themselves hitting on nurses.
*Tom Johnson's a terrific No. 2, and a good start on a second pairing. You really can't go wrong when assigning him a partner.
*Not a big fan of the third pairing, for no other reason than I'm not a fan of that structure: the nimble offensive-minded defenceman (Reinhart) with the tough, lumbering guy (Moose Dupont). It could lead to a lot of 2-on-1s or breakaways for an opponent. Which is why it's a good thing you have...
*Patrick Roy. What more can you say about the goalie that many regard as the best ever? The over-under for the number of starts than John Vanbiesbrouck gets is 12.5. Place your bets, fellas.
*I'm a big Sather fan. I think Sather and Fred Shero are the cream of the crop for the second-tier coaches. But is this a Slats type of team? Perreault is certainly going to love playing for Sather. But Slats' loves fast-skating, hard-charging, up-tempo, highly-skilled hockey. I don't know if this team fits that bill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stalberg View Post
Halifax Mooseheads

Coach: Glen Sather
Asst. Coach: Eddie Gerard

Bill Barber - Gilbert Perreault - Punch Broadbent
Wendel Clark - Joe Nieuwendyk (A) - Pat Verbeek
J.P. Parise - Steve Kasper - Dirk Graham (A)
Gerard Gallant - Bernie Nicholls - Jamie Langenbrunner

Bill Gadsby (C) - Babe Pratt
Tom Johnson - Dallas Smith
Paul Reinhart - Andre Dupont

Patrick Roy
John Vanbiesbrouck

Spares: Real Cloutier, Phat Wilson, Marc Savard

PP1:
Barber-Perreault-Broadbent
Gadsby-Pratt

PP2:
Nicholls-Nieuwendyk-Verbeek
Johnson-Reinhart

PK1:
Barber-Kasper
Gadsby-Johnson

PK2:
Parise-Graham
Smith-Pratt

PK3:
Nieuwendyk-Verbeek
Gadsby-Johnson

Minors:
Rick Ley, Alexei Yashin, Jose Theodore, Robbie Ftorek, Alex Smith

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Old
11-14-2009, 02:01 PM
  #259
Dreakmur
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Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
- Lack of real #1 D prescenece; if Valsiliev is one, he is lower-end.
Just curious where people rank Valery Vasiliev.....

He's deinfately not in the top-20.
Orr, Harvey, Shore, Bourque, Lidstrom, Potvin, Kelly, Fetisov, Park, Robsinon.
Cleghorn, Pilote, Chelios, Coffey, Seibert, Clancy, Horton, Stevens, Gadsby, Salming.

After the top 20, he's right in the mix for the next couple of spots, and that group really depends on what you want. (Here's the rest of my top-32)

If you want offense, there's MacInnis, Leetch, Boucher, and Quackenbush.
If you want defense, there's Langway and Savard.
If you want physical presence, there's Pronger and Stewart.
If you want well-rounded, there's Gerard, Howe, Goodfellow, and Vasiliev.

The guys in that list who I think stand out as better than everyone else are: Leetch, Langway, and Vasiliev.

With a #1 defensemen, we really wanted a guy who could do it all, so Vasiliev was pretty much the easy choice.

So, assuming my evaluation is fairly accurate, Vasiliev is a solid #1 defenseman (21st-23rd best). He's certainly not among the best, but he is middle of the pack, and we're happy with that.

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Old
11-14-2009, 02:22 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
You were questioned on this before? that seems wrong. I would never, ever question Magnuson as a #6... or a #5. Yes, on a first pairing he's way out of place.
Some of the posters questioned whether Magnuson had the speed to keep up in the ATD.

From God Bless Canada's review of my team from the last ATD.

Quote:
God Bless Canada
*Two concerns with the defence. One, I'm not certain Keith Magnusson can keep up at this level. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Magnusson fan. Love his toughness and his character. He's probably one of the toughest defencemen in the draft. But is he going to be able to keep up.
And he was my sixth defenseman.

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Old
11-14-2009, 02:27 PM
  #261
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-I really like your first line. Itís definately one of the best in the draft. Not only is it made up of great players, itís built really well too. Theyíve got tonnes of speed, tonnes of scoring, and more than enough playmaking to go around. They also have a little physical punch and some defensive awareness. The best way to handle these guys is to match big, strong defensemen, but the catch is that big strong defensemen canít keep up!!
-Your second line is less impressive. I like Fleury, but both Harris and Weiland are ďbargain basementĒ second liners. This unit will be fine because itís balanced and well built, but it looks like they are short on talent.
-Your third line should be strong. Walker may just be the best defensive left winger in the draft. Not only that, but heís got a much stronger offensive resume than most of the other top defensive guys. I donít know too much about Laprade, but your bio makes him sound like a solid 2-way player. Wharram, to me, looks odd on this line. Maybe Iím just uneducated, but does he have any defensive game? If he doesnít you would probably be better off moving him to the 2nd line, and moving Fleury to the 3rd.
-After you took Pit Martin, I kicked myself for forgetting about him.

-Goodfellow and Wilson will be a very steady top pairing. Both guys bring everything to the table. While they will be steady, they are a mediocre top unit.
-Pulford and Mortson will pretty much destroy people. Pulford is one of the most under-rated guys Ė heís an absolute beast in his own zone.
-Ozolinch and Leduc are a solid 3rd pair Ė theyíll give you lots of offense.

-Glenn Hall is one of the best goalies around. Youíll have to defend him in the play-offs, but even if he is a little weaker in the play-offs, heís still one of the best!

-Overall, you built a really solid team. I do think you lack some talent in some places (2nd line and 1st defence pair), but that is covered up by strong balance through the line-up. Your 1st line and goaltender will carry you a long way!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
Ladies and gentlemen, I am proud to present, your..

Cairo Desert Dogs


GM: Leafs Forever
Head Coach:Hector "Toe" Blake

Toe Blake(C)-Cyclone Taylor-Teemu Selanne
Smokey Harris-Cooney Weiland-Theo Fleury
Jack Walker-Edgar Laprade-Ken Wharram
Gaye Stewart-Pit Martin-Jimmy Peters

Ebbie Goodfellow(A)-Doug Wilson
Harvey Pulford(A)-Gus Mortson
Sandis Ozolinsh-Albert Leduc

Glenn Hall
Normie Smith

Spares: RW/D Ken Randall, LW Herb Cain, C Billy Taylor

PP1: Toe Blake-Cyclone Taylor-Teemu Selanne-Ebbie Goodfellow-Doug Wilson
PP2: Smokey Harris-Cooney Weiland-Theo Fleury-Sandis Ozolinsh-Gus Mortson

PK1: Jack Walker-Edgar Laprade-Harvey Pulford-Gus Mortson
PK2: Cooney Weiland-Theo Fleury-Albert Leduc-Doug Wilson

Cairo Desert Devils (Minor League Team):

Don Grosso-Cal Gardner-Bill Fairbairn
Gord Fraser-Howard Mcnamara

Roland Melanson

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Old
11-14-2009, 02:31 PM
  #262
Evil Sather
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THE WADE BELAK EXPERIENCE
The Chicago Blackhawks

Coach Red Berenson

Bun Cook - Dale Hawerchuk - Bill Cook
Dean Prentice - Stan Mikita - Steve Larmer
Jere Lehtinen - Vincent Damphousse - Dave Taylor
Insert Wing Here - Doug Risebrough - Tomas Sandstrom
Marcel Bonin, Steve Vickers

Eddie Gerard - Hobey Baker
Doug Mohns - Rob Ramage
Reed Larson - Joe Jerwa
7th: Dion Phaneuf

Bill Durnan
Mike Richter

PP1: Cook-Hawerchuk-Cook, Gerard-Phaneuf
PP2: Larmer-Mikita-Taylor, Larson-Mohns
PK1: Mikita-Larmer , Gerard-Jerwa
PK2: Risebrough-Lehtinen Mohns-Phaneuf

Call-Ups:
Mike Rogers, Mike Ricci, Zach Parise, Todd Bertuzzi, Roman Hamrlik, Reggie Lemelin, Keith Magnuson

Call up goalie fixed.

I mean, criticisms taken, but where do I slot my defense? Pretty gaping #2 and #4 hole. Gonna have to gamble I guess and slot in Baker.

On that note Phaneuf is probably my weakest defensive guy but he brings too much to special teams so I'm just going to dress 7 D and scratch Bonin. There's like 6 guys on the team who can play LW, no problem rotating whoever in there.

The Bun Cook thing I had to be away for, and GBC made the pick which I was fine with, but in retrospect a defenseman would have been a million times better. I could plug in 10 guys there and still have it be an upper-tier 1st line. Mistake.

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Old
11-14-2009, 02:49 PM
  #263
God Bless Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Just curious where people rank Valery Vasiliev.....

He's deinfately not in the top-20.
Orr, Harvey, Shore, Bourque, Lidstrom, Potvin, Kelly, Fetisov, Park, Robsinon.
Cleghorn, Pilote, Chelios, Coffey, Seibert, Clancy, Horton, Stevens, Gadsby, Salming.

After the top 20, he's right in the mix for the next couple of spots, and that group really depends on what you want. (Here's the rest of my top-32)

If you want offense, there's MacInnis, Leetch, Boucher, and Quackenbush.
If you want defense, there's Langway and Savard.
If you want physical presence, there's Pronger and Stewart.
If you want well-rounded, there's Gerard, Howe, Goodfellow, and Vasiliev.

The guys in that list who I think stand out as better than everyone else are: Leetch, Langway, and Vasiliev.

With a #1 defensemen, we really wanted a guy who could do it all, so Vasiliev was pretty much the easy choice.

So, assuming my evaluation is fairly accurate, Vasiliev is a solid #1 defenseman (21st-23rd best). He's certainly not among the best, but he is middle of the pack, and we're happy with that.
Dit Clapper's, who in my top 20 for all-time defencemen, is very conspicuous by his absence in your rankings.

Vasiliev was near the bottom for my No. 1 defencemen options. Somewhere in the 30-32 range.

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Old
11-14-2009, 03:01 PM
  #264
Dreakmur
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Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
Dit Clapper's, who in my top 20 for all-time defencemen, is very conspicuous by his absence in your rankings.

Vasiliev was near the bottom for my No. 1 defencemen options. Somewhere in the 30-32 range.
Whoops. I always forget somebody

You have one-dimentional guys like MacInnis, Leetch, Savard, and Langway ahead of multi-dimentional Vasiliev?

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11-14-2009, 03:02 PM
  #265
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Just curious where people rank Valery Vasiliev.....

He's deinfately not in the top-20.
Orr, Harvey, Shore, Bourque, Lidstrom, Potvin, Kelly, Fetisov, Park, Robsinon.
Cleghorn, Pilote, Chelios, Coffey, Seibert, Clancy, Horton, Stevens, Gadsby, Salming.

After the top 20, he's right in the mix for the next couple of spots, and that group really depends on what you want. (Here's the rest of my top-32)

If you want offense, there's MacInnis, Leetch, Boucher, and Quackenbush.
If you want defense, there's Langway and Savard.
If you want physical presence, there's Pronger and Stewart.
If you want well-rounded, there's Gerard, Howe, Goodfellow, and Vasiliev.

The guys in that list who I think stand out as better than everyone else are: Leetch, Langway, and Vasiliev.

With a #1 defensemen, we really wanted a guy who could do it all, so Vasiliev was pretty much the easy choice.

So, assuming my evaluation is fairly accurate, Vasiliev is a solid #1 defenseman (21st-23rd best). He's certainly not among the best, but he is middle of the pack, and we're happy with that.
Well in a 32 team draft, 16th would be about average. If your below top-20, you're getting into the lower-tier.

Vasiliev doesn't strike me as that well-rounded from what I've seen. Perhaps an offensive touch, but his calling cards seemed to be much more-so defence and physicality.

There are a few guys that you don't say stand out that can make a decent case against Valsiliev, I think. Won't doubt him as a #1 though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
-I really like your first line. Itís definately one of the best in the draft. Not only is it made up of great players, itís built really well too. Theyíve got tonnes of speed, tonnes of scoring, and more than enough playmaking to go around. They also have a little physical punch and some defensive awareness. The best way to handle these guys is to match big, strong defensemen, but the catch is that big strong defensemen canít keep up!!
-Your second line is less impressive. I like Fleury, but both Harris and Weiland are ďbargain basementĒ second liners. This unit will be fine because itís balanced and well built, but it looks like they are short on talent.
-Your third line should be strong. Walker may just be the best defensive left winger in the draft. Not only that, but heís got a much stronger offensive resume than most of the other top defensive guys. I donít know too much about Laprade, but your bio makes him sound like a solid 2-way player. Wharram, to me, looks odd on this line. Maybe Iím just uneducated, but does he have any defensive game? If he doesnít you would probably be better off moving him to the 2nd line, and moving Fleury to the 3rd.
-After you took Pit Martin, I kicked myself for forgetting about him.

-Goodfellow and Wilson will be a very steady top pairing. Both guys bring everything to the table. While they will be steady, they are a mediocre top unit.
-Pulford and Mortson will pretty much destroy people. Pulford is one of the most under-rated guys Ė heís an absolute beast in his own zone.
-Ozolinch and Leduc are a solid 3rd pair Ė theyíll give you lots of offense.

-Glenn Hall is one of the best goalies around. Youíll have to defend him in the play-offs, but even if he is a little weaker in the play-offs, heís still one of the best!

-Overall, you built a really solid team. I do think you lack some talent in some places (2nd line and 1st defence pair), but that is covered up by strong balance through the line-up. Your 1st line and goaltender will carry you a long way!
Thanks for the review. Of note;

-Yes, my 2nd line isn't great, but I think I did alright with them where drafted, and they are a solid two-way line with Fleury and Weiland. I thought about moving Fleury to the third (especially seeing what an awesome third-liner Fleury would be), I'm just worried that might make a toughness gap on my 2nd line (although Harris has a fairly high PIM/GP indicating some scrappy play, but not enough evidence of that yet). I am considering moving Peters up to 3rd, with his stanley-cup winning defensive resume. Any other thoughts from anyone on slotting my bottom-3 RW's would be appreciated

- Destruction is what I was going for with my 2nd pairing, particularly with Gordie Howe in my division. I agree Pulford may be underrated, but I think that's changing. I'll probably roll it with my third-line as a five-man shutdown unit at even strength.

- Ozolinch and Leduc do indeed provide plenty of offence (especially in the playoffs!) Two guys I really grew to like more after selecting.

- Glenn Hall in the playoffs is certainly a challenge I am ready to take again.

- Thanks, and all-in-all pretty spot on. Team balance is something I grew to like when building the Spartans at LeafsChat (although it's a lot more difficult with 12 more teams!)

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11-14-2009, 03:13 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
Well in a 32 team draft, 16th would be about average. If your below top-20, you're getting into the lower-tier.

Vasiliev doesn't strike me as that well-rounded from what I've seen. Perhaps an offensive touch, but his calling cards seemed to be much more-so defence and physicality.

There are a few guys that you don't say stand out that can make a decent case against Valsiliev, I think. Won't doubt him as a #1 though.
Vasiliev is most famous for his physical and defensive abilities, but he was one of the most skilled Soviet blueliners as well. His offensive abilities are subtle. He's not a coast to coast rusher, but he's a fantastic passer, and sometimes making quick and accurate breakout passes can be more effective than trying to carry it - ask Niklas Lidstrom.

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11-14-2009, 03:13 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Whoops. I always forget somebody

You have one-dimentional guys like MacInnis, Leetch, Savard, and Langway ahead of multi-dimentional Vasiliev?
I don't have Langway in my top 32.

MacInnis was far from one-dimensional. He's actually pretty good defensively. Watch film of him from 1998-99 (when he won the Norris) or 2002-03 (when he led defencemen in Hart Trophy votes). He was a dominant minute-muncher who played in all situations.

Savard isn't one-dimensional, either. He's one of the best defensive defencemen of all-time, he's big, he's mobile and he makes an excellent first pass. He doesn't get involved in the rush like his Big 3 teammates Robinson and Lapointe - he was one of those guys who came up at about the same time as Orr, and so he still believed that defencemen took care of their own zone above all else - but he's far from one-dimensional.

Leetch could be viewed as one-dimensional, but he's also one of the elite offensive defencemen to ever play the game. He was okay defensively during his peak from 1990 to 1997; his performance definitely slipped after 1997.

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11-14-2009, 03:25 PM
  #268
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Grand Rapids Owls

Bucyk - Apps - Recchi
Howe - Foyston - Hossa
Davidson - Carbonneau - Ellis
Balon - Lysiak - MacLean
Pederson
Richer

Laperriere - Park
Ludwig - Cameron
Johansson - Seiling
Awrey

Vezina
Liut




PP1
Bucyk - Apps - Recchi
Park - Cameron

PP2
Foyston - Howe - Hossa
Johansson - Laperriere


PK1
Carbonneau - Ellis
Ludwig - Laperriere

PK2
Howe - Davidson
Park - Johansson

PK3
Apps - Hossa
Ludwig - Seiling


Minor League
Nemchinov - Apps Jr - Shalimov
Kjell Samuelsson - Jeff Brown
Zinger




STRENGTHS

blueline:
no defensive liabilities
laperriere, seiling, park and ludwig were very good or excellent defensively. cameron and johansson were also good defensive players.

puck movers:
park, cameron, laperriere and johansson. seiling is also a decent puck mover.

cameron is one of the greatest offensive d-men in history. twice led the NHL in assists. 4 times in the top 10 in goals. 4 times in the top 10 in points.
park was also a great offensive d-man.


PP:
2 QB's on the 1st PP for better puck movement and to provide more weapons.

bucyk's ES scoring was fairly consistent before and after orr and esposito, but his PP scoring was key to his best seasons.
bucyk will get garbage goals, make passes out of the corner, and screen the goalie.

apps is apps, a great all around threat.

i decided to switch recchi and foyston's spots on the PP. recchi was a very good playmaker, and was also great at deflecting pucks.
foyston gives more dynamism to the 2nd PP.


team D:

no defensive liabilities on the blueline
most of my F's were good defensive players.
pat burns emphasizes team D.
my team will focus on shot blocking.



WEAKNESSES

scoring RW
recchi is a weak 1st liner. hossa has not had a full career.


goaltending
i think vezina is probably a below average goalie in ATD. size and skating are problems. he was apparently a good puckhandler, though.
liut is a good backup, but nothing special.


nothing really great
bucyk and recchi are more of career than peak players. that is not a big concern on the 2nd line, but 1st liners are generally expected to have more gamebreaking ability.

i really like my blueline, but i would not say it is dominant.





i am wondering whether to put seiling with cameron. ludwig may be too slow to defend counterattacks when cameron gets caught in the offensive zone.
any thoughts?

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11-14-2009, 03:36 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
*The first thing I noticed with this team is the tremendous speed of the first line, and the team speed in general. Thereís only one line that I can think of, and thatís Cairoís first line, that has that much speed. Teams that have slower defencemen on their blue line will be exploited. All three are wonderful skaters. The flip side is they donít have a gritty player to provide the crash-and-bang presence. Thatís not to say theyíre soft. But against a team with a defenceman like a Robinson, a Seibert, a Clapper or a Pronger, this line could be in trouble.
*The second line doesnít have that physically dominant player, either, although Elias and Crosby donít need anyone to open up room for them.
*Love the third line. Love the speed and size of Bourne and Primeau. Love that both of them can play centre or the wing. Itís a tandem thatíll cause problems for opponents. And Armstrong is No. 2 or 3 on my list for third line right wing candidates. Heís not fast, but heís big, his anticipation is terrific and his hockey sense is as good as any third line right winger in the draft. One of the best leaders in the draft, too.
*Good to see Simon Gagne and his solid game and great wheels back in the ATD.
*overpass asked if anything should be done to the RW corps. Absolutely not. Your best offensive RW is on your first line. Your second best offensive winger is on your second line. You have an elite third line RW. And Owen Nolan slides nicely into the fourth line RW spot. Unless you think Skinner will score more than Palffy, or bring the attributes of a complimentary winger that Palffy canít bring, Skinner will be a spare forward.
*The defence works. There isnít an elite guy for his role, other than possibly Griffis at No. 3. But thereís an okay No. 1 (Howe), a very good No. 2 (Kasatonov), a decent No. 4 (Egan), and then solid third pairing guys (Numinnen and Ramsey) who can play against an opponentís top line and not be exploited. Ramseyís the only one who isnít going to make the great first pass; all six of them take pretty good care of their own zone. If thereís a defence whose sum is greater than its parts, this one is probably it.
*If Giguereís upset with his role in Anaheim now, wait till he finds out his role in Renfrew: open the bench door and pat guys on the back while Dominik Hasek puts on a show 65-70 times a year.
*I like Reay as a coach. Heís the only coach that Dennis Hull ever played for, at least according to Hull. Itís not Reayís fault Esposito couldnít stop a shot from centre ice in Game 7 of the Stanley Cup final.
Thanks for the review, GBC. I pretty much agree with it. My plan is to have a team that can play my opponents evenly, and then have Hasek as my edge.

I am aware that I don't really have a physical presence on the top two lines, although they aren't soft. I think they'll do well without that for the most part. Against certain teams I may move Primeau to the first PP unit for a big body in front of the net and a physical dimension.

I love my third line as well. They can match up physically with any first line in this draft, and skate with most of them.

I pretty much agree with you on the RWs right now. The only change I might make is putting Nolan or Skinner on the second line to provide physical play and crash the net. I don't anticipate doing that right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens Fan View Post
No one here has more respect for Butch Bouchard than me but he's 6'2" and 205 pounds.

Chara is 6'9" and 255 pounds.

As I said, he is going to be difficult to move from the front of the net. I didn't say it couldn't be done, I just said it will be difficult.
Another thing about Chara in front of the net...if he's on the second unit, he'll often play against the second unit D-men, not the Bouchards and Seiberts.

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11-14-2009, 04:30 PM
  #270
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Detroit Falcons review...

*Props on reuniting the Krauts. I think it's one of the finest all-round lines in the history of the game. I have some qualms with Bauer on the first line, and I definitely have concerns about Dumart on the first line - I don't think he's at that level offensively, although he's among the very elite for defensive LWs. Schmidt's the man. One of the best hockey players of all-time. There's nothing Schmidt can't do. And it is an advantage to have a first line which is that good defensively.
*I'm a big Duke Keats fan. I think he's the prototype for the pre-29 forward: a tough, gritty, combative, competitive centre who is a tremendous stick-handler. He'll enjoy feeding passes to the great goal-scorer Roy Conacher.
*Third and fourth lines are solid, although they maybe won't have the same amount of pressure facing them as other third and fourth lines, since the first line has two of the best defensive forwards out there in Schmidt and Dumart. They might not have to log as much ice time against the opposition's best.
*Is there much of a physical presence for the fourth line? How physical was Sandford? Because I don't think O'Connor and Oliver bring that element.
*I'm not sold on Quackenbush as a No. 1. I love him as a brilliant No. 2, but having him as a No. 1 might be asking too much of him. I love Jimmy Thomson as a No. 2. Tough and talented, he was the best defenceman on a dynasty. Oh wait, Thomson's probably the No. 3, since Lionel Conacher is there?
*As I said before, I don't see a true No. 1. But I see a 2A, 2B and 2C to provide excellent depth. When you went Sawchuk/Schmidt with your top two picks, it meant you'd miss out on the top defencemen.
*Worth noting: for an eight-year span from 1930-31 to 1937-38, Cy Wentworth missed six games. Now that's reliability.
*Sawchuk's one of my top three goalies in the draft. He's incredible. Sorry, Mike Karakas, but you won't be seeing the ice very often.
*Herb Brooks is a good coach. I wonder if he's maybe a better developmental, or an international coach, than a pro coach. It was too bad that the HHOF waited until after his death to induct him - he deserved enshrinement for what the Miracle on Ice did for the sport. But as a pro coach, his record isn't overwhelming - under .500 in both the regular season and the playoffs. Good to see Father David Bauer back in the draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Coach:
Herb Brooks
Assistant Coach:
Father David Bauer

Woody Dumart - Milt Schmidt - Bobby Bauer
Roy Conacher - Duke Keats - Harry Hyland
Harry P. Watson - Phil Goyette - Bobby Rousseau
Ed Sandford - Buddy O'Connor - Harry Oliver

Bill Quackenbush - Jimmy Thomson
Lionel Conacher - Cyclone Wentworth
Art Duncan - Bucko McDonald

Terry Sawchuk
Mike Karakas

Reggie Fleming (LW/D)
Wally Hergesheimer (RW)

Powerplay:
Woody Dumart - Milt Schmidt - Bobby Bauer
Bill Quackenbush - Lionel Conacher

Roy Conacher - Duke Keats - Harry Hyland
Jimmy Thomson - Bobby Rousseau

Harry Watson - Buddy O'Connor - Harry Oliver
Art Duncan - Cy Wentworth

Penalty Kill:
Milt Schmidt - Woody Dumart
Cy Wentworth - Jimmy Thomson

Phil Goyette - Bobby Rousseau
Bill Quackenbush - Bucko McDonald

Buddy O'Connor - Harry Watson
Art Duncan - Lionel Conacher


Call-Ups:
Dubbie Kerr - Herb Carnegie - Art Gagne
Vasili Pervukhin - Steamer Maxwell
Bert Lindsay

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Old
11-14-2009, 04:32 PM
  #271
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Quote:
Sawchuk's one of my top three goalies in the draft. He's incredible. Sorry, Mike Karakas, but you won't be seeing the ice very often.
I'm interested in hearing which of Roy, Hasek, or Plante you have him above.

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Old
11-14-2009, 04:49 PM
  #272
God Bless Canada
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Nova Scotia Voyageurs review...

*Before I start, let me just say how deeply disappointed I am that you took Heatley (or was it Graves) off the second line and put Getliffe there. If you would have had Graves on the second line, that would have been my favourite line in the draft. With Heatley there, it would have been one of my favourites. Anyways...
*Is there a defensive line? Or will you roll four lines. With the centres you have, they can play against anybody. Especially Gilmour. Don't know if the wingers on the top two lines (except for Getliffe) really are ideal for first line vs. first line type match-ups.
*Dino Ciccarelli's one of the best players in tight in the draft. Great hands and a great nose for the net. Annoying little b*stard, too.
*Didn't Kyle McMahon have Gilmour and Neely together last draft, too?
*I would have probably gone with Heatley on the second line and Getliffe on the third. A Getliffe-Irvin-Nevin would be one of the more underrated two-way lines in the draft. I'm a big Nevin fan, for what it's worth. And a Heatley-Gilmour-Neely line would have been lethal.
*Robinson's a force. He's a guy who I believe is very, very valuable in this format, since he's so big, but skilled and mobile, too. He is the complete package.
*The top four is tough in general. Talbot's physical. Reardon is fearless and mean. And "Mean" Ted Green says it all. It's a very well-built top four, an imposing, intimidating lot with ability to match their physical play. Some blue-line brigades will have better personnel. A lot will have better personnel. But not many will be better built.
*I'm a big Gump Worsley fan. Terrific goalie. If he had spent his entire career with the shabby Rangers, then he'd probably fall under the "bad team goalie" category. But he showed what he can do for a contender when he was in Montreal. Fantastic goalie. Roach is a good back-up. But he'll probably only get 20 starts, max.
*Adams is as tough as they come. The classic demanding Original 6 coach, but he got results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzeznik View Post
NOVA SCOTIA VOYAGEURS

Head Coach: Jack Adams
Assistant Coach: Bun Cook
Captain: Steve Yzerman
Assistant Captains: Doug Gilmour, Bob Nevin, Larry Robinson

Rick Martin-Steve Yzerman (C)-Dino Ciccarelli
Ray Getliffe-Doug Gilmour (A)-Cam Neely
Dany Heatley-Dick Irvin, Sr.-Bob Nevin (A)
Adam Graves-Chris Drury-Gary Dornhoefer
Jozef Golonka

Larry Robinson (A)-Jean-Guy Talbot
Ken Reardon-Ted Green
Alexander Gusev-Hamby Shore
Bob Dailey

Gump Worsley
John Ross Roach


PP1: Heatley-Yzerman-Neely-Robinson-Shore
PP2: Martin-Gilmour-Ciccarelli-Reardon-Gusev

PK1: Getliffe-Nevin-Robinson-Talbot
PK2: Gilmour-Graves-Reardon-Green
PK3: Drury-Dornhoefer

Minors

Dennis Maruk-Viktor Zhluktov-Ran McDonald
Garry Galley-Bob Murray
Miikka Kiprusoff

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Old
11-14-2009, 04:52 PM
  #273
God Bless Canada
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Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
I'm interested in hearing which of Roy, Hasek, or Plante you have him above.
I have Plante and Roy at 1 and 2, respectively, and Hasek at 4. Hasek's ranking gets dinged because he quit on his teams a couple times at crunch time - Buffalo in 1997 and Ottawa in 2006. For a guy who puts a premium on goalie reliability, that's a big no-no in my books. And he allowed himself to become a distraction and a divisive factor with Detroit in 2004.

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11-14-2009, 04:56 PM
  #274
God Bless Canada
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That's it for today. Continue playing catch-up with reviews for Hedberg, VCL, Leafs Forever, BRG, mullin and the Pats tomorrow.


Last edited by God Bless Canada: 11-14-2009 at 11:46 PM.
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11-14-2009, 07:08 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
*Props on reuniting the Krauts. I think it's one of the finest all-round lines in the history of the game. I have some qualms with Bauer on the first line, and I definitely have concerns about Dumart on the first line - I don't think he's at that level offensively, although he's among the very elite for defensive LWs. Schmidt's the man. One of the best hockey players of all-time. There's nothing Schmidt can't do. And it is an advantage to have a first line which is that good defensively.
*I'm a big Duke Keats fan. I think he's the prototype for the pre-29 forward: a tough, gritty, combative, competitive centre who is a tremendous stick-handler. He'll enjoy feeding passes to the great goal-scorer Roy Conacher.
*Third and fourth lines are solid, although they maybe won't have the same amount of pressure facing them as other third and fourth lines, since the first line has two of the best defensive forwards out there in Schmidt and Dumart. They might not have to log as much ice time against the opposition's best.
*Is there much of a physical presence for the fourth line? How physical was Sandford? Because I don't think O'Connor and Oliver bring that element.
*I'm not sold on Quackenbush as a No. 1. I love him as a brilliant No. 2, but having him as a No. 1 might be asking too much of him. I love Jimmy Thomson as a No. 2. Tough and talented, he was the best defenceman on a dynasty. Oh wait, Thomson's probably the No. 3, since Lionel Conacher is there?
*As I said before, I don't see a true No. 1. But I see a 2A, 2B and 2C to provide excellent depth. When you went Sawchuk/Schmidt with your top two picks, it meant you'd miss out on the top defencemen.
*Worth noting: for an eight-year span from 1930-31 to 1937-38, Cy Wentworth missed six games. Now that's reliability.
*Sawchuk's one of my top three goalies in the draft. He's incredible. Sorry, Mike Karakas, but you won't be seeing the ice very often.
*Herb Brooks is a good coach. I wonder if he's maybe a better developmental, or an international coach, than a pro coach. It was too bad that the HHOF waited until after his death to induct him - he deserved enshrinement for what the Miracle on Ice did for the sport. But as a pro coach, his record isn't overwhelming - under .500 in both the regular season and the playoffs. Good to see Father David Bauer back in the draft.
Thank You for the review GBC, it's always a pleasure to read your appreciation of all teams.

* I'm surprised you don't see Woody Dumart as a 1st line LW. Although a tremendous defensive forwards, one of the best of All-Time, Dumart was a very complete player; a true two-way forward. He was a big man for his time, at 6'1''feets, 200 pounds. He was known with an above average scoring touch. His shot had tremendous velocity as goaltenders were scared of his shot. He was a leader and played hard hockey, but always kept it under the rules. The strength of the Kraut Line lied in the all-around ability of Woody Dumart

Quote:
Originally Posted by HHOF
Known as the one of the best two-way players in the game

An outstanding defensive left winger with an above-average scoring touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Dumart - at 6'1", one of the largest wingers of his day - was the skilled checking and defensive component to the line, while contributing good scoring
Quote:
Originally Posted by In the Game
An excellent two-way performer

Not only was he a dangerous offensive performer, but Dumart often drew the task of shadowing opponents' top snipers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Hockey
Still, with his clean, hard checking and shot of the wing, he was a valuable member of the Boston Bruins through his career.

[B]Dumart, as one of the finer two-way talent of his time.[/B
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trail of the Stanley Cup, vol.2
[In 1937], the big left winger was yet to display his prowess as a goal-getter.
- Woody Dumart with his tremendous offense, with his shot, his very heavy shot. [...]'' - Milt Schmidt

- I know few man who excelled Woody in his talent, both ways on the ice. - Milt Schmidt
------------------------
* I was very happy to see Duke Keats still available in the late 200's. He was the perfect centerman for both of my wingers, Conacher and Hyland.

* I think it's definite that my top-2 line will see a lot of ice-time. The Krauts especially, with their very fine two-way play, will see action against the other teams very best. Against a team like the Nanaimo Clippers, who roll two strong offensive line, the Krauts and my third line will be able to contain them (as much as being able to contain Bobby Hull and Charlie Conacher). That's also why I wanted a third line who could play an effective two-way game. Phil Goyette is one of the best third line playmaker in the draft, while Rousseau and Watson can effectively chip some goals. All that while beinn able to contain the opposition.

* O'Connor and Oliver doesn't bring a physical element. Sandford, while a big and reliable two-way forward, dosn't bring that feerless physical presence like Harry Watson do on that third line. But that's not the point of this line. I think it can be a very underrated fourth line by the fact that they can hurt you offensively. Remember my fourth line in ATD#9? (I went to the finals that year) Lynn Patrick - Frank McGee - Bill Goldsworthy. Another un-typical ATD 4th line, but that line was bringing offense and could hurt your opposition in a way you wouldn't expect from a 4th line. Instead of the ATD-Cannon of putting your offensive on your top-2 line, my offense his distributed among all four lines, and O'Connor and Oliver are tremendous offensive contributor, while Sandford his a good two-way presence. No fourth line will hurt the opposition offensively than them. Physical? Not at all, but they gonna hurt you in another way.

* Quackenbush is indeed a #1 in an All-Time Draft, only by the sole fact that he's one of the best 32 defenseman in the league. He's not the ideal #1, I'll accord you this, but Quackenbush was a phenomenal two-way defenseman. His physical presence was almost zero, but ''The Quack'' had everything else. He's was one of the best and most constant offensive defenseman of his ERA, tremendous defensively, a quiet leader with an amazing transition game. He's being paired with a defenseman who covers is only weakness: Jimmy Thomson, one of the most fearless and physical defenseman of his ERA. Another defenseman with a great first pass. And yes, Thomson is indeed the #3 on this team, as ''The Train'' Conacher is on this team.

* No problem with that assessment, although I would say both Quackenbush and Conacher are top-32 defenseman of All-Time, making them #1 defenseman in the draft. But in a ''ideal'' world, I would agree that I have three defenseman who should be #2 defenseman. In a 32 team draft, I would also argue that my 6 regular defenseman could play in a top-4.

* It's worth something, as a guy like Mario Lemieux for example will indeed miss some games during the season, which will affect the performance of his team. I have a team that are injury-free, which should help my standing in the long run

* Well Karakas will definitely not see more than a handful of games during the season. Sawchuk was a model of constancy and brilliant performances during his first trip in Detroit. If he can bring his tenacity and skills into the rink all season long, the Falcons will be yet again a very difficult team to beat.

* I agree to a certain degree, but do you see the ATD as a pro league or an international competition? I understand we play a full season, but the ATD is special, a mix of both worlds. The duo of Herb Brooks and David Bauer definitely has an international flavour, but I think the Detroit Falcons is a team suited for them; a hard-working team with skills on every lines with no ''my self first'' players on it. I won't try to sell them as bring as good as a Bowman-Ruel duo, but especially for coaches, having the right coach for the right team is more important than having the best coach. I think that's the case here.

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