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2009 Forbes NHL Team Valuations

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Old
11-13-2009, 01:09 AM
  #76
Jaded-Fan
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After winning Lord Stanley's Cup this year, the Pittsburgh Penguins have increased their value by more than $25 million over last year.

The Web site Forbes.com ranks the Pens as the 11th most valuable franchise in the NHL, with a value of $222 million.

In 2008, the team was ranked 18th on the list with a value of $195 million.



http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/...18/detail.html

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Old
11-13-2009, 01:38 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
I doubt that Forbes puts significant effort into these puff pieces.

I've noticed in the past that in some of the team blurbs they've simply cut-and-pasted from previous years (with out-of-date info).
I think you are right. I imagine they have a excel spreadsheet which they have an intern/low level staffer update each year based on certain questionable assumptions made years ago, possibly plugging in such bogus data as official "announced attendance" figures and ticket prices, etc. from such questionable sources as the Team Marketing Report. I even question if they've made use of any recent legitimate public information and leaks to improve their article/data.

In terms of investing advice, I would highly recommend ignoring magazines such as Forbes and Fortune. They have been wrong so many times, I wonder if they do it intentionally -- i.e., pump and dump.

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11-13-2009, 02:21 AM
  #78
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Thrashers co-owner Michael Gearon comments on Forbes valuations:
http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-bl...f_schultz_blog

ďI have great respect for Forbes as a premier business magazine but I have always viewed Forbes attempt at estimating sports teams values or peoplesí net worth as purely entertainment for its readers. I have never been able to reconcile where Forbes gets their financial information for sports values or for that matter peoplesí net worth. Is Trump really worth $2 billion as Forbes claims, or is it a lot less, which is what the NY Times claims. With respect to your 3 [questions], my comments are below:

1. Forbes financial information is not accurate. For example, the Thrashers donít have any debt and the financial information doesnít reconcile to ours. In addition, I have no idea where Forbes came up with our purchase price for the Thrashers as $80 million.

2. Does the ranking surprise me? I havenít given it much thought except to say that it is the same as the Atlanta Falcons. Is the ranking a reflection on how they are run? I think Arthur Blankís answer to that question would be no.

3. We have worked hard to separate the Belkin issue from either management or the teams. The Hawks have improved every year we have owned the franchise and are currently ranked in the top 6 in the NBA based on the start to our season. With respect to Thrashers, I had strong concerns last February; however, once [Ilya Kovalchuk] became captain and we made some trades, we had a very strong finish. I like our core young players as well as the addition of [Rick] Dudley in the front office. We are playing .500 hockey, are 5-2-1 on the road against some good teams and our franchise player has been out for 3 weeks.

With respect to Belkin, we had a major victory in court. The benefit to that win is that I have been able to sleep better at night. It certainly hasnít impacted Kovy or Joe Johnsonís sleep. In other words, this has impacted us personally and it is not an issue that has impacted decisions we have made with either franchise. It seems that writers want to continue keeping this issue in the news when it was a 2005 story.

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11-13-2009, 02:54 AM
  #79
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Some teams Forbes should be able to get information from. For example: MLSE is a publically traded company is it not? Doesn't that mean they need to report stuff like revenue monthly or what not?

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Old
11-13-2009, 05:21 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Some teams Forbes should be able to get information from. For example: MLSE is a publically traded company is it not? Doesn't that mean they need to report stuff like revenue monthly or what not?
No it is not.

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Old
11-13-2009, 07:00 AM
  #81
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Common thread here??

MOST VALUABLE TEAMS

Toronto Maple Leafs
New York Rangers
Montreal Canadiens
Detroit Red Wings

Philadelphia Flyers
Boston Bruins
Chicago Blackhawks

6 of the top 7 teams are original 6 teams.

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Old
11-13-2009, 09:28 AM
  #82
Enstrom39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yooper wings fan View Post
Common thread here??

MOST VALUABLE TEAMS

Toronto Maple Leafs
New York Rangers
Montreal Canadiens
Detroit Red Wings

Philadelphia Flyers
Boston Bruins
Chicago Blackhawks

6 of the top 7 teams are original 6 teams.
Longevity matters! Good point--we should give those expansion teams time to develop their fan base. I like the way you think Yooper Fan

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Old
11-13-2009, 09:33 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by The Falconer View Post
Longevity matters! Good point--we should give those expansion teams time to develop their fan base. I like the way you think Yooper Fan

How long 10 15 20 60 years?

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Old
11-13-2009, 12:18 PM
  #84
AnalogMan
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Originally Posted by yooper wings fan View Post
How long 10 15 20 60 years?
If local owners want to give it 60 years, sure!

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Old
11-13-2009, 12:28 PM
  #85
kyle evs48
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I adore how the Devils are more valuable than many of the teams whose fanbases mock ours.

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Old
11-13-2009, 12:48 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by RR View Post
If local owners want to give it 60 years, sure!
You mean as long as the NHL's Cash Cow is paying their bills?

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Old
11-13-2009, 06:16 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by GHOSTofMAROONSroad View Post
Some other curious info from the Forbes' charts/statements.

-- Edmonton had plus 9.4 million in operating income last year, without revenue sharing (I understand) and without making the playoffs?

-- San Jose had a negative 5.0 million in operating income last year with about the same revenues as Edmonton and they had a very successful team that made the playoffs.

-- the Predators had negative 5.7 million in operating income despite a low payroll and revenue sharing. Forbes included the following statement:



http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/31/...rs_310472.html

GHOST
You know that data for the Predators is Wrong according to Fan 590, Globe and Mail, TSN, and other Canadian media outlets. William Boots Del Baiggo is the hand picked by Gary Bettman, 100% owner of the Predators. Forbes list some guy named David Freeman

Also interesting to note that the owners are wanting to sell the team less than a year after buying all 14000 tickets to steal Revenue Sharing from the Canadian teams. Doing that also locked in their lease for 5 more years, making it harded to sell the team.


Last edited by Gnashville: 11-13-2009 at 06:55 PM.
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Old
11-13-2009, 06:28 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yooper wings fan View Post
Common thread here??

MOST VALUABLE TEAMS

Toronto Maple Leafs
New York Rangers
Montreal Canadiens
Detroit Red Wings

Philadelphia Flyers
Boston Bruins
Chicago Blackhawks

6 of the top 7 teams are original 6 teams.
Meaning they had their markets before the NBA, and therefore all own their arena.

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Old
11-13-2009, 06:29 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yooper wings fan View Post
You mean as long as the NHL's Cash Cow is paying their bills?
If the owners of the Cash Cow teams don't like the agreement that they agreed to why not sell out??? Or are thay making more money themselves????

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Old
11-13-2009, 09:31 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
Meaning they had their markets before the NBA, and therefore all own their arena.
What?? Does Forbes attribute anything to whether you own your own rink or not?

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Old
11-13-2009, 09:35 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
If the owners of the Cash Cow teams don't like the agreement that they agreed to why not sell out??? Or are thay making more money themselves????
Detroit yes, the rest no.

As for your question about selling out I think you nailed it the next CBA will be very interesting. I think the big issue will be the NHL itself not the NHL vs. the NHLPA. I think the big market teams will do everything possible to have a better deal, this one is way to much in favour of small market teams.

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Old
11-14-2009, 03:06 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie View Post
I doubt Calgary is "losing money". I suspect the figures include financing costs and creative accounting. There's no other explanation for how the Flames can have higher revenue than the Oilers, yet be "losing money" while the Oilers are making money.
Same situation in Ottawa I believe.
It's my understanding Melnyk owns SBP in addition to a couple other assets relating to the area... though I seem to recall him going on record that he does sets the team budget with the assumption of playoff revenue to break even - so last year would have hurt some if that's the case.

So while the team itself may be losing money, its by design and overall I believe all the related assets are on the positive side of the balance sheet in total.

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Old
11-14-2009, 04:10 PM
  #93
AnalogMan
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Finally, someone has reported what we've been saying in Phoenix all along. Not that it's going to change any minds, but perhaps some will now give credence to this report as they did to everything Shoalts and the G&M reported all summer:

Business of Hockey: NHL Team Valuations

Quote:
Not all teams have been invited to this party. In most cases this is the fault of owners who took their eyes off the puck. Prime example: The Phoenix Coyotes spent several months in bankruptcy protection and were just purchased for around $140 million by the league. In essence, the league is assuming most of the teamís liabilities and will operate it until a buyer who wants to keep the Coyotes in Phoenix can be found. Prior ownership was more concerned with real-estate development near the arena than producing a winning hockey team. New ownership will have a tough time rebuilding fan loyalty and attracting non-hockey events like concerts to Jobing.com Arena with the NBAís Phoenix Suns playing in a competing arena just 15 miles away.

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