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Old
11-13-2009, 11:02 AM
  #76
MePutPuckInNet
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Originally Posted by rigger View Post
This board is so freakin bipolar its crazy.

Hemsky has been or best player over the past few years. He wants to be here and he's got a crazy good contract.

This is ludicrous.
What's really ludicrous is that people keep calling him the Oilers "best player". The only "best" label I'd give him is "Best Dangler"....and really, what has all of his Fancy-Dan Dangling done for this team, besides occasionally being entertaining to watch?

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11-13-2009, 11:04 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by MePutPuckInNet View Post
What's really ludicrous is that people keep calling him the Oilers "best player". The only "best" label I'd give him is "Best Dangler"....and really, what has all of his Fancy-Dan Dangling done for this team, besides occasionally being entertaining to watch?
Most points over the past 4-5 years on the Oilers?

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11-13-2009, 11:06 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by rigger View Post
Most points over the past 4-5 years on the Oilers?
You think having the most points means you're the best player?

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11-13-2009, 11:12 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by rigger View Post
Most points over the past 4-5 years on the Oilers?
With all the prime PP time and all the critical ES time I would hope he would have the most points. Hemsky handles the puck for over half the time he is on the ice. No one else can score because he has the puck all the time. No great mystery there.

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11-13-2009, 11:18 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by MePutPuckInNet View Post
You think having the most points means you're the best player?
And who would you consider their best player in the last five years it is wasn't Hemsky?

I love the criticism (it is actually quite funny) but in the last five years who has EVEN come close to any of the offensive numbers that Hemsky has!

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11-13-2009, 11:20 AM
  #81
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And who would you consider their best player in the last five years it is wasn't Hemsky?
Pronger, Roloson, Smyth.

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11-13-2009, 11:25 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
And who would you consider their best player in the last five years it is wasn't Hemsky?

I love the criticism (it is actually quite funny) but in the last five years who has EVEN come close to any of the offensive numbers that Hemsky has!
Offensive numbers? Sorry, I keep thinking I'm discussing best player. IMO, they are not necessarily one and the same.

Penner, thus far this season, has been the Oilers best player. He also has the most points, but, I don't consider him to be the Oilers best player just because he has the most points. He's the best player because he's used his skill to the best of his ability and has actually played to his best potential. Sure, the points are there too, but - from my point of view, its just not the same thing.

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11-13-2009, 11:28 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Pronger, Roloson, Smyth.
Pronger was here one year and left. He hasn't been here for how many seasons?

Smyth is gone and has been gone for awhile, how many seasons has he been gone?

Lets get real and not ridiculous! You know you are reaching for straws when the names you come up with have been gone for many a season! And further reaching when the next name you mention is a goalie!

Roloson is a goaltender, but last time I looked he didn't a lot of offensive production!

Penner has been great for 19 games but there is no one else on the Edmonton Oilers squad that has even remotely touched his offensive numbers and since we love to discuss salary and how important it is!

Hemsky outperforms his contract! Isn't that the be all and end all on this board!!

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11-13-2009, 11:31 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by MePutPuckInNet View Post
Offensive numbers? Sorry, I keep thinking I'm discussing best player. IMO, they are not necessarily one and the same.

Penner, thus far this season, has been the Oilers best player. He also has the most points, but, I don't consider him to be the Oilers best player just because he has the most points. He's the best player because he's used his skill to the best of his ability and has actually played to his best potential. Sure, the points are there too, but - from my point of view, its just not the same thing.
So almost a point a game throughout his career for a 4.1 million cap hit is not good enough?

Interesting how that argument is so important in the Horcoff debate but interesting the Hemsky critics never want to mention his salary.



I wonder why that is!

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11-13-2009, 11:31 AM
  #85
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First off, I don't think we should trade Hemsky. As others have pointed out, he produces quite well in comparison with his salary. I wouldn't say he is an incredible bargain, but his contract is better than most on the this roster

The problem is that Hemsky is not an elite player. In my mind, he is similar to Paul Kariya or Alex Tanguay. Not in playing style necessarily - but all of these players are almost-PPG wingers that get most of their points off assists. They are not franchise players, and when they are the best forward on your team you will stuggle offensively.

Some think that getting an elite goal scorer would also boost Hemsky to become one of the league's elite. I have my doubts about this. Acquiring a goal scorer (and building the team around them) would be a great thing, but I suspect that Hemsky's numbers would only increase modestly and he would remain a notch below the best players in this league.

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11-13-2009, 11:32 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MePutPuckInNet View Post
What's really ludicrous is that people keep calling him the Oilers "best player". The only "best" label I'd give him is "Best Dangler"....and really, what has all of his Fancy-Dan Dangling done for this team, besides occasionally being entertaining to watch?
Generate more offense than anyone on the team?

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11-13-2009, 11:35 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
Pronger was here one year and left. He hasn't been here for how many seasons?

Smyth is gone and has been gone for awhile, how many seasons has he been gone?

Lets get real and not ridiculous! You know you are reaching for straws when the names you come up with have been gone for many a season! And further reaching when the next name you mention is a goalie!

Roloson is a goaltender, but last time I looked he didn't a lot of offensive production!

Penner has been great for 19 games but there is no one else on the Edmonton Oilers squad that has even remotely touched his offensive numbers and since we love to discuss salary and how important it is!

Hemsky outperforms his contract! Isn't that the be all and end all on this board!!
Souray, Visnovsky, Penner.

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11-13-2009, 11:36 AM
  #88
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Hate to bring stats into such a discussion.

So Hemsky doesn't produce on the PP and should be replaced? Isn't that the argument.

Here are some stats, courtesy of Lowetide and Desjardins!

http://lowetide.blogspot.com/2009/11...ally-good.html

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11-13-2009, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
Hate to bring stats into such a discussion.

So Hemsky doesn't produce on the PP and should be replaced? Isn't that the argument.

Here are some stats, courtesy of Lowetide and Desjardins!

http://lowetide.blogspot.com/2009/11...ally-good.html
There is a post in that blog that shows Hemsky at #25 of point producers in the league. I guess if he is our best, we should be happy with bottom 25% of the league then.

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11-13-2009, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
There is a post in that blog that shows Hemsky at #25 of point producers in the league. I guess if he is our best, we should be happy with bottom 25% of the league then.
PP pt producers.

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11-13-2009, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Souray, Visnovsky, Penner.
I agree Penner has been great for 19 games! Hopefully he can continue.

How much do Souray and Visnovsky make in comparision to Hemsky?

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11-13-2009, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MePutPuckInNet View Post
You think having the most points means you're the best player?
Who are the best players in the league? Would you rather have Ovechkin and Crosby or Malhotra and Marchant?

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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Pronger, Roloson, Smyth.
Where are they today?

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11-13-2009, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
I agree Penner has been great for 19 games! Hopefully he can continue.

How much do Souray and Visnovsky make in comparision to Hemsky?
You keep moving the goalposts. You said better players in the last five years. I gave you three. Here is three more. You didnt mention points or money.

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11-13-2009, 11:46 AM
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Where are they today?
Playing really well for other teams and contributing more than Hemsky. Dont blame me, I was just responding to the parameters given.

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11-13-2009, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MePutPuckInNet View Post
Offensive numbers? Sorry, I keep thinking I'm discussing best player. IMO, they are not necessarily one and the same.

Penner, thus far this season, has been the Oilers best player. He also has the most points, but, I don't consider him to be the Oilers best player just because he has the most points. He's the best player because he's used his skill to the best of his ability and has actually played to his best potential. Sure, the points are there too, but - from my point of view, its just not the same thing.
So, I want to know since Ryan Smyth's departure, who has been the best player for the Oilers if it's not Ales Hemsky? Sorry, unless you know something I don't, Hemsky is by far the best player we have had in the past 3 seasons.

Here are the people up for nomination. Hemsky makes
- .1 more than Gilbert
- Less than Penner
- Less than Horcoff
- Less than Souray

And even if we don't equate salary into the equation, I still want to know who you think is the best player for the Oilers.

Horcoff
Souray who played 26 games in his first season, -7, and was on pace for 9 goals and 32 points and has already missed almost 20 games in to this season.
Smid
Staios
Gilbert
Gagner
Nilsson
Moreau
Penner

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11-13-2009, 11:54 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
You keep moving the goalposts. You said better players in the last five years. I gave you three. Here is three more. You didnt mention points or money.
Frankly I don't think Souray is better then Hemsky especially considering how much he is injured!

Visnovsky is a good dman and could be better at his position but frankly who in the hell cares? Secondly he gets paid to be one of the best dman in the game at his salary!

But frankly you have mentioned players that left many years ago, a couple of dman and a goaltender and a forward that has had a hot start for 19 games!! I would say this bolsters my argument. We don't have any forwards that consistently produce even close to what Hemsky does!

And as much as you want to ignore his salary, you can't do it. Hemsky is a bargain!!

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11-13-2009, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
Frankly I don't think Souray is better then Hemsky especially considering how much he is injured!

Visnovsky is a good dman and could be better at his position but frankly who in the hell cares? Secondly he gets paid to be one of the best dman in the game at his salary!

But frankly you have mentioned players that left many years ago, a couple of dman and a goaltender and a forward that has had a hot start for 19 games!! I would say this bolsters my argument. We don't have any forwards that consistently produce even close to what Hemsky does!

And as much as you want to ignore his salary, you can't do it. Hemsky is a bargain!!
I think Visnovsky is an incredible player and could be much better in the defensive zone. In terms of best player oni the team - I would definitely throw him up there but he's only played 67 games for the Oil in 1 and 1/4 season

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11-13-2009, 12:02 PM
  #98
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I think Visnovsky is an incredible player and could be much better in the defensive zone. In terms of best player oni the team - I would definitely throw him up there but he's only played 67 games for the Oil in 1 and 1/4 season
I love Visnovsky but we are paying the salary for an elite dman.

Hemsky is not paid as an elite player.

I really didn't think I had to mention this perimeter as it is used so much and exclusively in the Horcoff debate. I thought it was a given!

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11-13-2009, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
Frankly I don't think Souray is better then Hemsky especially considering how much he is injured!

Visnovsky is a good dman and could be better at his position but frankly who in the hell cares? Secondly he gets paid to be one of the best dman in the game at his salary!

But frankly you have mentioned players that left many years ago, a couple of dman and a goaltender and a forward that has had a hot start for 19 games!! I would say this bolsters my argument. We don't have any forwards that consistently produce even close to what Hemsky does!

And as much as you want to ignore his salary, you can't do it. Hemsky is a bargain!!
I gave you six players that are better than Hemsky that played here in the last five years. That is what you asked for. Dont get mad at me. Im just following your rules. I would say the team has missed Souray much more than they have missed Hemsky when he has been gone. Last year we tanked without Visnovsky. Hemsky isnt even close to being the best player on this team right now, never mind in the last five years.

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11-13-2009, 12:05 PM
  #100
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I agree Penner has been great for 19 games! Hopefully he can continue.

How much do Souray and Visnovsky make in comparision to Hemsky?
Haha, this is funny. Penner has been great this season. I hope he keeps it up but in the 3 seasons Penner has scored 106 points, in that same time period Hemsky put up 154 in 17 less games.

Souray and Visnovsky have been great defenders for this team. Lubo, has been decent, souray great.

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