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Old
08-02-2010, 10:31 AM
  #51
kihei
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Originally Posted by KallioWeHardlyKnewYe View Post
I'm interested, though I'm not completely confident I can articulate my usual thought process. Or, for that matter, if I consistently adhere to my own stated standards, which at times, I suspect I don't.
Oh, as far as consistency goes, I'm sure I don't either. Whats the line in Pirates of the Caribbean: "they're more like guidelines." And indeed that is true and probably is the way that it should be, anyway. But I would really be interested in what you had to say as I am so often in agreement with your conclusions (and your approach in general) that it's almost alarming. It's like maybe half the time we could trade user names and no one would be the wiser. So, yeah, I am curious about how you tackle the standards issue. I promise to respond, though it might take a day or two because I haven't really thought about this in years, and some reflection seems like a good idea to me.

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08-02-2010, 10:53 AM
  #52
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So I saw Inception yesterday. Another fine movie by Christopher Nolan, although at first it was weird to shake off the fact that Juno had turned from pregnant teen to French architect student. Did anyone else feel like they were in the "dream state" described in the film? Yes, it was only two and half hours, but it seemed 3-4 hours easily. I also appreciated the fact how the film operated by showing a concept (of which you have no idea what's going on) then going back later to IMO, fully explain why that concept is important to the whole storyline.

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08-02-2010, 03:24 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Norm MacDonald View Post

To try and dumb it down (did you say textbook snobbery??): the "objective standards" (what specific standards do you have in mind? This is where you always get foggie) are what you use to label Miike an incompetent director (give a quote from my statement where an objective standard is actually used). It's not relative to you (huh? what's not relative to me? what are you referring to here?), but a matter of labeling the movie flawed. (Less than stellar direction=flawed movie--how is that controversial?)
Now that you have labeled (from here on out you are in cloud cookoo land, making up paper tigers as suits your needs) the movie flawed, you still consider yourself a relativist by basically saying "some people may love flawed movies, but I have higher standards". (But never any actual particulars from my writing to support these assertions) When you are doing that, you are anointing your an elite and people with other tastes either ignorant or pedestrian (and, again particulars, please, showing me doing that) (that's the "hierarchy of tastes"). That's not relativism. And who thinks like that? Snobs ; (Ah bingo, the magic word. Here is finally the burr under your saddle). It's pretty much textbook snobbery That's where the wiki entry came in (I was trying to be a bit more subtle (but you ended up being more obscure instead)
I don't think your argument is actually an intellectual one. I think it is an emotional one. You don't like snobs, and you have decided that for sure I am a snob, therefore you feel justified in putting words in my mouth, and setting up those paper tigers only to knock them over with your own strange inventions about what you think is going on in my mind.

I do think I have high standards. I don't expect everyone to agree with them. I certainly don't think lesser of anyone because they don't share my standards about movies; in fact, I try to make my positions accessible to as many as possible, not to a few. Judging from responses that I have had with people, I think I have done a fair job at that, on the whole. I enjoy Hollywood movies a great deal; I prefer the European and Asian work, true. But, until you can articulate and provide examples of what you think is specifically snobbish in my work, I think whatever demon you are chasing, it has a lot more to do with you than it does with me.

And there is a simple solution to the dilemma that you seem to have with my approach: ignore it; just skip reading it.

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08-02-2010, 05:41 PM
  #54
Norm MacDonald
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Ugh... the bold in quotes is really inconvenient.
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Less than stellar direction=flawed movie--how is that controversial?
The controversy isn't in that statement, but how you came to the conclusion that the directing is "less than stellar". Everything in the movies are the result of the filmmakers' decisions, which may or may not have the same effect on you that it has on others. I already gave you specific examples, but here's another:
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Skip Salt; it is bad, Razzie bad. Even by the most brain-dead summer blockbuster standards, the plot is preposterous, the script witless, the visuals gloomy, the mood dour, the music bombastic, the humour non-existent, and the special effects recycled. Jolie can convincingly kick ass and look sexy doing it, but we already knew that. You think that she would have the clout to demand better material than this.
I haven't seen Salt, but that's irrelevant. You think all those things about the script and formal elements make a "bad" movie, even going as far as calling it brain-dead. Ask yourself, if somebody who liked the movie read that, how would they feel? Maybe guilty? I mean, even if you liked the movie, you would probably have called it "fun" instead of "good." People shouldn't feel ashamed about liking something.
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I thought about how lovely Vallencia was during a recent trip there, and then I got an intense craving for melon gelato
I don't really have anything to say here, I just wanted to put it in my post.
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Originally Posted by kihei View Post
I don't think your argument is actually an intellectual one. I think it is an emotional one. You don't like snobs, and you have decided that for sure I am a snob, therefore you feel justified in putting words in my mouth, and setting up those paper tigers only to knock them over with your own strange inventions about what you think is going on in my mind.
Well you're right that I hate snobs, but that doesn't mean my argument isn't "intellectual". I'm not putting words in your mouth, nor am I inventing anything that's going on in your mind. I'm basing my entire argument on the text from your posts. If you think otherwise, you made no effort to understand what I wrote.
Quote:
I do think I have high standards. I don't expect everyone to agree with them. I certainly don't think lesser of anyone because they don't share my standards about movies; in fact, I try to make my positions accessible to as many as possible, not to a few. Judging from responses that I have had with people, I think I have done a fair job at that, on the whole. I enjoy Hollywood movies a great deal; I prefer the European and Asian work, true.
You're completely missing the point. Even calling them "high standards" implies that you believe the movies you don't like are inferior in quality. And saying that you don't "expect" people to share the same standards is exactly what I'm talking about. Saying "I prefer good movies" is not relativism. I don't see how that's a controversial "paper tiger" that only someone in "cloud cuckoo land" would make. It's pretty straightforward.
Quote:
But, until you can articulate and provide examples of what you think is specifically snobbish in my work, I think whatever demon you are chasing, it has a lot more to do with you than it does with me.
Talk about "inventions about what you think is going on in my mind"....
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And there is a simple solution to the dilemma that you seem to have with my approach: ignore it; just skip reading it.
What you type has an effect on others and contributes to the death of taste.

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Old
08-02-2010, 06:01 PM
  #55
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^
I'm quite happy to let the above speak for itself. Time to move on.

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08-02-2010, 07:03 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by kihei View Post
^
I'm quite happy to let the above speak for itself. Time to move on.
Same. Despite what I said, I actually hope it doesn't discourage you because your posts are hilarious.

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Old
08-08-2010, 12:12 AM
  #57
Saw Jiris Tlusty
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What's this about a project concerning the criteria for what makes a viewer view a film as good, bad or, indifferent?

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08-08-2010, 12:41 AM
  #58
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Did you guys just randomly migrate your heated argument from one thread to another?

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08-08-2010, 12:47 AM
  #59
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Did you guys just randomly migrate your heated argument from one thread to another?
Yeah, we'll provide maps for the next one.

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Old
08-11-2010, 10:56 AM
  #60
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Been slow to respond to this because Iíve been waiting for a time when I have a few moments to gather my thoughts into something resembling coherence. Not sure Iíve done it here, but heregoes....

How do I evaluate movies?
I think my biggest guiding principal is trying to assess what Iím watching on its own terms, i.e. ďthe you donít watch an Adam Sandler movie expecting to see the GodfatherĒ argument. Incidentally, Sandlerís movies, for the most part, suck, even on his terms.
What is the movie trying to do and how does it do it? Is it successful? Does it have style (note: not always ironic music choices and smash cuts)? Is there anything praise worthy about it even if other elements suck?

Iím a big story guy so I tend to maybe weigh that more than other factors, though I do like to think of myself as fairly educated and well-versed on other aspects of production, both formally and informally.

These are typically the questions that go through my mind during and after a viewing. And obviously, thereís the caveat, that I, as the viewer, am both setting the standards and judging against those standards.

There is the matter of expectations. If youíre a frequent consumer of film, it canít be helped. Itís hard to be a truly blank slate. So I tend to grade tougher on films/writers/directors that I expect more from and easier on others.
This is why Iíd give a movie like Transformers, which I expected to be awful, a passing grade so-to-speak, but I borderline LOATHE the much more acclaimed The Curious Case of Benjamin Button. Button, in many aspects, is a better movie than Transformers, and I acknowledge that, but if Transformers is on the TV, I can let it be. If Button is, Iím changing it.

I never like the tag ďworst movies of the year.Ē I much prefer ďmost disappointing.Ē Itís shooting fish in a barrel to pick on The Hottie Vs. The Nottie, which everyone agrees is awful. Iím much more interested in talking about why I think Grand Torino and Shutter Island are failures (as two recent examples).
The Friedberg/Seltzer ďspoofsĒ of recent years, however, always should be bashed.

Iím a pretty open minded viewer (at least I think so). There are some genres I like more than others (Iím a total sucker for heist movies), but I canít think of any that I carry a strong disdain for or bias against, the closest might be subgroups like cloying women-centric tearjerkers (Beaches, My Sisterís Keeper) and really base, dumb kids movies (Cats & Dogs, Furry Vengeance). I canít even make it through the commercials for the latter.

One thing I donít abide when it comes to evaluating/discussing movies though is any argument that hinges on box office as a defense. Though great movies can make oodles of coin, box office still is a measure of popularity, not quality.
Quality is in the eye of the beholder. Tell me why you liked it, not that a million others did.

Not sure how much sense Iíve made here, but wanted to shed some light on my thought process.

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08-15-2010, 10:38 PM
  #61
kihei
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I fiddled with this between tennis matches all week, so here it is:

Notes on my standards of judgement

1) Ideally the movie should be universal, true, beautiful and timeless (my take on classical aesthetics, idiosyncratic though it might be, which continues to influence me to this day).
---Note: How those terms are defined is, of course, subjective. Any attempt to impose absolute standards of judgement ultimately (usually pretty quickly, actually) doesn’t work.

2) Hopefully, the movie teaches me something about the human condition; it changes my life, if even in only a small way; it alters the way that I see things, it provides some insight into what it means to be alive—any one of the above results will do.

3) The movie gets better (reveals more) with subsequent viewings. (right out of the Dwight Macdonald playbook)

4) The movie gets better the older that I get. (same)

5) The movie must make effective use of its visual component, as film is first and foremost a visual medium.

6) Not absolutely necessary but very much preferred, the movie makes innovative or original use of its visual component.

7) The movie should engage me both emotionally and intellectually (if it does both those things, it will automatically entertain me—this may not constitute everybody’s idea of entertainment, but it is mine).

8) All movies that I like aren’t necessarily good movies.

9) All movies that I dislike aren’t necessarily bad movies.

10) You have to be open to movies that make a hash of one’s criteria, but are exceptional in some way or another. Ultimately, the Pirate’s Code prevails, the “rules” are more like “guidelines.”

11) Standards have to be flexible—if you expect your average multiplex movie to do this stuff, you’re crazy.

12) Not a criteria so much as a necessary component: I try to at least stay familiar with what is going on in as wide a variety of different arts as possible, be it theatre, dance, art, literature, sculpture, music, and so on. Why? Because it is easy way to sharpen one's perceptions and broaden one's judgements, a way of acquiring fresh insights and perspectives on the films that I see and on life in general.

13) I try to delay judgment for as long as possible about a film. Because when I come to a conclusion too soon, I stop looking at the work objectively. I stop thinking. That can and usually does make for bad criticism.

Still...though...a 15 pound trout is a 15 pound trout. Metaphorically speaking, I can enjoy fishing even when I don’t catch a fish (think your average bad multiplex movie or some Sundance tedium). I am quite happy when I catch a 2 pound trout (think Inception), even happier when I catch an 8 pound trout (think Police, Adjective) because they are pretty rare, and ecstatic when a 12 pounder (think I Don’t Want to Sleep Alone) drops in my net. But it is the 15 pound trout (think Children of Paradise, Jules and Jim, Still Life, et al) that I am after, even though I might not catch a single one in a year or more. The point is, though: You can still very much enjoy fishing if you seldom catch a really big fish.

And, yes, to take what many would probably think an extreme example, I find, say, Taiwanese minimalism extremely entertaining when done well.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds a little Prussian, no? Anyway, there it is.

I don't sit in a movie like Transformers and go, oh, is this timeless, I wonder. Usually I see the movie and if the heavy artillery criteria seem to apply, I let that realisation sort of float in on me. It's not like a formal yardstick that I take with me and keep checking during the course of a movie. Afterward, I think about it, or not, as the mood strikes me.

And I am not trying to claim my criteria should be anybody elses. Everybody has their own way of doing these things, and that's fine with me.

Later note: although only a couple of the criteria are from Dwight Macdonald, the overall feel of my approach really is almost an homage to his way of looking at movies and life. I recommend without reservation to anyone interested in good movies and good writing his sole collection of film criticism On Movies. I'd also recommend Paulene Kaels first three or four collections as well.


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Old
08-16-2010, 03:35 PM
  #62
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....Iím a big story guy so I tend to maybe weigh that more than other factors, though I do like to think of myself as fairly educated and well-versed on other aspects of production, both formally and informally....
I'm a big "visual" guy. I'm curious about some of the big stories that you have liked, though.

Quote:
Iím a pretty open minded viewer (at least I think so). There are some genres I like more than others (Iím a total sucker for heist movies)...
Couple examples here of your favourites would be helpful as I like the genre, too.

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Quality is in the eye of the beholder. Tell me why you liked it, not that a million others did.
I want to know the reasons, too. Pulling hair is fun sometimes, but I prefer a conversation where the shared goal is to understand the movie and the other person's position, not to win an argument.

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Not sure how much sense Iíve made here, but wanted to shed some light on my thought process.
Your approach makes a lot of sense to me.

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08-21-2010, 11:59 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by kihei View Post
I fiddled with this between tennis matches all week, so here it is:

Notes on my standards of judgement

1) Ideally the movie should be universal, true, beautiful and timeless (my take on classical aesthetics, idiosyncratic though it might be, which continues to influence me to this day).
---Note: How those terms are defined is, of course, subjective. Any attempt to impose absolute standards of judgement ultimately (usually pretty quickly, actually) doesnít work.


7) The movie should engage me both emotionally and intellectually (if it does both those things, it will automatically entertain meóthis may not constitute everybodyís idea of entertainment, but it is mine).
These two, definitely. Especially #7.

When I've been in arguments with people about art v. entertainment, I always find myself saying that to me, art IS entertainment. I know others certainly don't feel that way, but the two can be one in the same.

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08-21-2010, 12:23 PM
  #64
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I'm a big "visual" guy. I'm curious about some of the big stories that you have liked, though.

Couple examples here of your favourites would be helpful as I like the genre, too.

I want to know the reasons, too. Pulling hair is fun sometimes, but I prefer a conversation where the shared goal is to understand the movie and the other person's position, not to win an argument.

Your approach makes a lot of sense to me.
Hmmmm....

Stories I've loved. Really so broad, it is hard to narrow down and, now that I contemplate a little more, tougher to truly divide feats of writing from feats of directing. Of course it makes sense that these factors would go together in films that I love (duh).

I love the originality and balls of just about everything Charlie Kauffman has writen. It hasn't always worked, but admire the attempts. Same goes for the Coens and to a lesser extent, Tarantino.
Folks with their own voices on their own planets.

But it doesn't have to be original, per se. I love it when writers/directors can play in a well worn genre or with overdone formulas but execute at a high level. And, as you'll, see, all over the map.

Early John Carpenter is a favorite of mine -- The Thing, Halloween, Big Trouble in Little China.

The Seven Samurai, High and Low.

Oshima's Pleasures of the Flesh is something I watched recently and, though visually it has its high points, I came away more taken with the story than anything.

Casablanca.

Beat the Devil. A Fish Called Wanda. The Princess Bride.

L.A. Confidential.

Boogie Nights.

It Happened One Night. ... Divorce Italian Style.

Unforgiven.

So many, many others.




Heist movies ...

Well, Rififi for historical perspective.

Big Deal on Madonna Street for humor.

Quick Change for underrated.

Le Cercle Rouge because every crime movie list needs a Melville entry.

Michael Caine's one-two punch of The Italian Job and Gambit.

Heat for epic cool.

Sexy Beast (which also crosses into another sub-genre I'm a sucker for -- British gangster flicks).

The Ocean's trilogy for light-hearted fun (I even like the much-reviled Ocean's 12).

I'm sure I'm missing others....

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08-21-2010, 01:24 PM
  #65
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When I've been in arguments with people about art v. entertainment, I always find myself saying that to me, art IS entertainment. I know others certainly don't feel that way, but the two can be one in the same.
Absolute agreement. I get in the same arguments and say exactly the same thing.

Here's some quick impressions off the top of my head regarding your second post:

I lot of your story movies have a strong visual component, so perhaps we have just a slightly different shift in terms of how we emphasize the two major components. When I said earlier that I am in the visual camp, I don’t mean to exclude the importance of story, it’s just that I am like movies in which the visuals are a dominant component in how the story is delivered—Blow Up, The Double Life of Veronique, Last Year at Marienbad, La Chinoise, and so on. It is a little ironic, though, that my favourite movie is Children of Paradise, which though beautifully shot and edited, is about as much of a pure story movie as you can get.

I guess that I have a certain wariness toward much of Kauffmann, the Coens and, especially, Tarantino. It took me a couple of screenings to realize that No Country was a great movie. It seems that I often respect the Coens more than like them. But, no question, they are smart, smart guys who make smart, smart movies. And I got off to a bad start with Kaufman as I wasn’t taken by Being John Malkovich so I should see that again now that some time has passed. Eternal Sunshine, though, I loved at first sight—maybe because it has more than a little Resnais in its pedigree. Tarantino, I struggle with on a movie to movie basis. I’m beginning to think that he may have peaked early.

Beat the Devil I recently saw, after returning from a vacation that included the Amalfi Coast (my partner and I were looking for movies shot in the places we visited—one of those whimsical diversions that attempt to keep a vacation’s memories fresh a little while longer), and my initial reaction was, what the hell, but now it is beginning to grow on me—one of those slow percolating films that can be so much fun to play with. I’ll screen it again in a few weeks or months. See what I think then.

Was glad to see Casablanca on your story list, surprised not to find The Maltese Falcon, though I realize there are an awful lot of great story movies to choose among. Not surprisingly, your list triggered some of my own favourites and makes me want to see the original Mutiny on the Bounty again, and Captain Blood. And Charade (sort of heisty, actually, and great fun).

Nice heist list indeed. Here’s a heist movie that you must see if you haven’t already: Any Number Can Win (1963), directed by Henri Verneuil, with Jean Gabin and Alain Delon. It’s a heist movie in which a Cannes casino is the target, and it is a tiny perfect thing.


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08-21-2010, 08:07 PM
  #66
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This thread is unintentionally hilarious. These guys sound like english scholars arguing over tea.

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08-21-2010, 08:57 PM
  #67
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Quick Change for underrated.

....
WOW....

I haven't seen that movie in ages...

I loved it when I saw it like 10-15 years ago... have to go and rent or stream it.

That is with Bill Murray right? Dressing like a clown or something?

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08-22-2010, 09:21 PM
  #68
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This thread is unintentionally hilarious. These guys sound like english scholars arguing over tea.
Actually, I kind of like this idea. Make it high tea at a good British hotel. We could resolve arguments by flinging scones at one another across the fine china.

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08-23-2010, 12:53 AM
  #69
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I guess that I have a certain wariness toward much of Kauffmann, the Coens and, especially, Tarantino. It took me a couple of screenings to realize that No Country was a great movie. It seems that I often respect the Coens more than like them. But, no question, they are smart, smart guys who make smart, smart movies. And I got off to a bad start with Kaufman as I wasnít taken by Being John Malkovich so I should see that again now that some time has passed. Eternal Sunshine, though, I loved at first sightómaybe because it has more than a little Resnais in its pedigree. Tarantino, I struggle with on a movie to movie basis. Iím beginning to think that he may have peaked early.
Yeah... those darn kids with their postmodernism and hippity hop music

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08-23-2010, 01:53 AM
  #70
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Yeah... those darn kids with their postmodernism and hippity hop music
Jeez, I was beginning to miss the attention. I mean, what has it been, three weeks? You are like having a not quite house broken puppy that follows me around and nips at my ankles. Just don't pee on the carpets, okay?

Anyway, to the matter at hand, I’m not anti-post modern in the least, but my taste just tends to run in a different channel than yours (now there's a surprise, right?), Lars von Trier, Sion Sono, and Guy Maddin, for instance. You should check them out.

Pssst, you got one right finally: I do hate hip hop (um, make that two right, actually. I just realised that I am munching on a croissant as I write this).


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08-23-2010, 02:08 AM
  #71
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Just don't pee on the carpets, okay?

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08-23-2010, 06:45 AM
  #72
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Ah, godddamn, now look what you did. That's the Persian rug, too.


Actually I had something more like this in mind:






(Side note: Haven't had any luck finding On the Silver Globe. Will keep hunting.


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08-23-2010, 12:18 PM
  #73
KallioWeHardlyKnewYe
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Originally Posted by kihei View Post
Absolute agreement. I get in the same arguments and say exactly the same thing.

Here's some quick impressions off the top of my head regarding your second post:

I lot of your story movies have a strong visual component, so perhaps we have just a slightly different shift in terms of how we emphasize the two major components. When I said earlier that I am in the visual camp, I donít mean to exclude the importance of story, itís just that I am like movies in which the visuals are a dominant component in how the story is deliveredóBlow Up, The Double Life of Veronique, Last Year at Marienbad, La Chinoise, and so on. It is a little ironic, though, that my favourite movie is Children of Paradise, which though beautifully shot and edited, is about as much of a pure story movie as you can get.

I guess that I have a certain wariness toward much of Kauffmann, the Coens and, especially, Tarantino. It took me a couple of screenings to realize that No Country was a great movie. It seems that I often respect the Coens more than like them. But, no question, they are smart, smart guys who make smart, smart movies. And I got off to a bad start with Kaufman as I wasnít taken by Being John Malkovich so I should see that again now that some time has passed. Eternal Sunshine, though, I loved at first sightómaybe because it has more than a little Resnais in its pedigree. Tarantino, I struggle with on a movie to movie basis. Iím beginning to think that he may have peaked early.

Beat the Devil I recently saw, after returning from a vacation that included the Amalfi Coast (my partner and I were looking for movies shot in the places we visitedóone of those whimsical diversions that attempt to keep a vacationís memories fresh a little while longer), and my initial reaction was, what the hell, but now it is beginning to grow on meóone of those slow percolating films that can be so much fun to play with. Iíll screen it again in a few weeks or months. See what I think then.

Was glad to see Casablanca on your story list, surprised not to find The Maltese Falcon, though I realize there are an awful lot of great story movies to choose among. Not surprisingly, your list triggered some of my own favourites and makes me want to see the original Mutiny on the Bounty again, and Captain Blood. And Charade (sort of heisty, actually, and great fun).

Nice heist list indeed. Hereís a heist movie that you must see if you havenít already: Any Number Can Win (1963), directed by Henri Verneuil, with Jean Gabin and Alain Delon. Itís a heist movie in which a Cannes casino is the target, and it is a tiny perfect thing.
Charade .... an excellent choice.

I've had my issues with the Coens and Kauffman and Tarantino (HATE Death Proof) but generally they appeal to me more than a lot of writers working today (what a giant limb I'm going out on here ... ).
They have style and voice, which I always gravitate towards.

Thinking more on this topic, I think my favorite story-driven work of recent years is The Wire. It's a somewhat unfair comparison to films given the canvass that David Simon and his staff were afforded, but damn if they didn't use it all.

And, I should also say, I'm using story somewhat broadly. In my mind, that also includes characterization and dialogue....

I love The Maltese Falcon.
The Thin Man (more for its characterizations) is another all time favorite (as is The Third Man).
But I can waste immense amounts of time listing favorites and won't bore some of the others here.

Is that Earl Grey? Two lumps please.

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Old
08-23-2010, 03:05 PM
  #74
Norm MacDonald
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Originally Posted by kihei View Post
Jeez, I was beginning to miss the attention. I mean, what has it been, three weeks? You are like having a not quite house broken puppy that follows me around and nips at my ankles. Just don't pee on the carpets, okay?
Maybe you're an abusive owner and I bite and **** on the rugs out of malice.

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Anyway, to the matter at hand, Iím not anti-post modern in the least, but my taste just tends to run in a different channel than yours (now there's a surprise, right?), Lars von Trier, Sion Sono, and Guy Maddin, for instance. You should check them out.
I've liked the von Trier I've seen but it didn't seem like postmodernism really defined his movies. I've never watched anything by the other two so I can't say.

But No Country and Eternal Sunshine are probably among the "least postmodern" of any Coens film or Kaufman screenplay. Listing those as your favorites and your contempt for Tarantino tells me that you dislike the whole movement. It's like saying you like Mexican food but hate tortillas and salsa.

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Old
08-23-2010, 03:32 PM
  #75
kihei
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Originally Posted by Norm MacDonald View Post
Maybe you're an abusive owner and I bite and **** on the rugs out of malice.


I've liked the von Trier I've seen but it didn't seem like postmodernism really defined his movies. I've never watched anything by the other two so I can't say.

But No Country and Eternal Sunshine are probably among the "least postmodern" of any Coens film or Kaufman screenplay. Listing those as your favorites and your contempt for Tarantino tells me that you dislike the whole movement. It's like saying you like Mexican food but hate tortillas and salsa.
I've just listed three directors that most people would agree have post modern tendencies whose works I look forward to and enjoy. Because my preferred post-modernists aren't your preferred post-modernists doesn't mean I dislike "the whole movement." Any more than my skepticism toward Tarantino translates into contempt.

You seem incapable of arguing without making these constant, sweeping ad hominem accusations and placing things always on a personal level, and I think that short circuits the intelligent comments that you would be capable of making if you just explained what you saw in the works from your side of the fence and tried to find out what other people saw from their perspective.

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