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Old
11-12-2009, 02:35 AM
  #1
DIEHARD the King fan
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Discussion on Big Hits.

With the GM meetings discussing big hits, all the injuries of late, and the suspensions. fines and discipline being handed out, Puck Daddy ran a guest Blog from former NHLer Reid Simpson, who laid out his opinions in the linked article:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,201486

I pretty much agree with what he says. Bottom line is how do you ask players to go out and lay it all on the line and then with perfect monday-morning hindsight question their play(judgment) based on changes in players positioning milliseconds pre-impact? I just don't think you can, but the various leagues apparently disagree!

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11-12-2009, 02:44 AM
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Its simple in some cases. Play the puck not the man! Look at the Hedman hit. He doesn't even touch the puck and Neil hits him without even thinking about playing the puck. If Neil does he probably wraps it around for a goal.

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11-12-2009, 03:15 AM
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Its simple in some cases. Play the puck not the man! Look at the Hedman hit. He doesn't even touch the puck and Neil hits him without even thinking about playing the puck. If Neil does he probably wraps it around for a goal.
NOT THAT SIMPLE, and your "Play the puck not the man" solution turns the NHL into the NO Hitting League. What about the OHL player situation. The injured kid turned to face the glass at the last possible millisecond. Horrible result, but clean hit from every hockey rule I know of, and the checker gets suspended for an entire season, his last year of eligibility in juniors.

Full contact hockey, heck any level or brand of hockey, is not for the faint of heart and every player who has ever laced 'em up knows they can get hurt. To toss out some legal jargon, its an assumed risk.

I have no problem suspending dirty hits, slashes, butt ends ,cross checks, etc. But to penalize players for clean hits that only are noteworthy for the degree of injury or force of impact is not only unfair, but leaves players wondering, while they are playing, if the next hit they put on an opposing player will result in loss of income, loss of job and injury to the player being checked. It adds a chilling effect to the ability of players to play at the highest level of their ability, to play all out.

Injuries, while severe, and sometimes catastrophic, are bound to happen in high impact games. What the league arbitrarily determines is a hit worthy of suspension leaves the players guessing, and you do not want players guessing on the ice. The lines (for what is legal and what is not) need to be clear before hand and not based on the degree of injury or force of impact. Thats what I'm saying.

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11-12-2009, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
NOT THAT SIMPLE, and your "Play the puck not the man" solution turns the NHL into the NO Hitting League. What about the OHL player situation. The injured kid turned to face the glass at the last possible millisecond. Horrible result, but clean hit from every hockey rule I know of, and the checker gets suspended for an entire season, his last year of eligibility in juniors.

Full contact hockey, heck any level or brand of hockey, is not for the faint of heart and every player who has ever laced 'em up knows they can get hurt. To toss out some legal jargon, its an assumed risk.

I have no problem suspending dirty hits, slashes, butt ends ,cross checks, etc. But to penalize players for clean hits that only are noteworthy for the degree of injury or force of impact is not only unfair, but leaves players wondering, while they are playing, if the next hit they put on an opposing player will result in loss of income, loss of job and injury to the player being checked. It adds a chilling effect to the ability of players to play at the highest level of their ability, to play all out.

Injuries, while severe, and sometimes catastrophic, are bound to happen in high impact games. What the league arbitrarily determines is a hit worthy of suspension leaves the players guessing, and you do not want players guessing on the ice. The lines (for what is legal and what is not) need to be clear before hand and not based on the degree of injury or force of impact. Thats what I'm saying.
The NFL is the most contact league and even they have a pass interference call. I'm not saying don't hit, but like lacrosse make sure the player has possesion of the puck. Niels hit was interference IMO

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11-12-2009, 04:56 AM
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The OHL suspension was too harsh IMO. If the CHL wants to protect the players why not have them wear full cages like college. The full cage also ensures a better chinstrap

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11-12-2009, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nK View Post
Its simple in some cases. Play the puck not the man! Look at the Hedman hit. He doesn't even touch the puck and Neil hits him without even thinking about playing the puck. If Neil does he probably wraps it around for a goal.
Must have never played Ice Hockey. The #1 rule of defense is play the man not the puck! I think they should eliminate the open ice hits and call icing as soon as it crosses the end line. Also leaving your feet on checks should be an automatic game misconduct. 3 miscounducts result in a 10 game suspension.

One other thing is I see alot of players now purposly turning their body along the board holding the puck and I think that should be called a delay of game. It is ok to turn your body near the boards ala Frolov to cycle the puck but to many people just cover and never move the puck.

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11-12-2009, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Pucknut50 View Post
Must have never played Ice Hockey. The #1 rule of defense is play the man not the puck! I think they should eliminate the open ice hits and call icing as soon as it crosses the end line. Also leaving your feet on checks should be an automatic game misconduct. 3 miscounducts result in a 10 game suspension.

One other thing is I see alot of players now purposly turning their body along the board holding the puck and I think that should be called a delay of game. It is ok to turn your body near the boards ala Frolov to cycle the puck but to many people just cover and never move the puck.
Other than open ice hits from the blind side, this is probably the single biggest reason why many players get hurt. They turn into the boards, often at the last millisecond before a hit, thinking that the rule will protect them. It doesn't, and the rule actually provides a false sense of security that may be partly at fault for the rise in injuries.

AS for open ice hits, those of us who have played hockey, particularly when we were younger, had it drilled into our heads at an early age: Keep your head up Either the coaches screamed it at you during play and practice, or someone was reminding you of that pearl of wisdom when they were helping you up after you got laid out.

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11-12-2009, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Pucknut50 View Post
Must have never played Ice Hockey. The #1 rule of defense is play the man not the puck! I think they should eliminate the open ice hits and call icing as soon as it crosses the end line. Also leaving your feet on checks should be an automatic game misconduct. 3 miscounducts result in a 10 game suspension.

One other thing is I see alot of players now purposly turning their body along the board holding the puck and I think that should be called a delay of game. It is ok to turn your body near the boards ala Frolov to cycle the puck but to many people just cover and never move the puck.

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11-12-2009, 01:23 PM
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cracking up!

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11-12-2009, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Pucknut50 View Post
Must have never played Ice Hockey. The #1 rule of defense is play the man not the puck! I think they should eliminate the open ice hits and call icing as soon as it crosses the end line. Also leaving your feet on checks should be an automatic game misconduct. 3 miscounducts result in a 10 game suspension.

One other thing is I see alot of players now purposly turning their body along the board holding the puck and I think that should be called a delay of game. It is ok to turn your body near the boards ala Frolov to cycle the puck but to many people just cover and never move the puck.
You can't play the man and not the puck in todays NHL. Plus in the situation I described Neil is an attacking fwd not a defender!!!!!!!!!!

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11-12-2009, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nK View Post
You can't play the man and not the puck in todays NHL. Plus in the situation I described Neil is an attacking fwd not a defender!!!!!!!!!!
If you play the puck in any league where there is a coach behind the bench you won't be on the team for long. Your theory is the exact opposite of what is taught from the time kids start playing hockey. The puck cannot score by itself, therefore if every man is covered there should be no goals. IMO, a few things need to be fixed. No more helmets with cheap foam padding. All the old school CCM's should be banned, just like the Jofa brain buckets were banned. Does this solve the problem? No but it helps. I'd also like to see the hard caps on the shoulder pads eliminated. They got rid of hard caps on elbow pads but not shoulder pads, makes no sense. And I think the most important part is that the people who make NHL rules realize part of playing hockey is getting hurt. Guys are going to get hurt in freak accidents but you cannot change a rule every time a guy is knocked out.

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11-12-2009, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
If you play the puck in any league where there is a coach behind the bench you won't be on the team for long. Your theory is the exact opposite of what is taught from the time kids start playing hockey. The puck cannot score by itself, therefore if every man is covered there should be no goals. IMO, a few things need to be fixed. No more helmets with cheap foam padding. All the old school CCM's should be banned, just like the Jofa brain buckets were banned. Does this solve the problem? No but it helps. I'd also like to see the hard caps on the shoulder pads eliminated. They got rid of hard caps on elbow pads but not shoulder pads, makes no sense. And I think the most important part is that the people who make NHL rules realize part of playing hockey is getting hurt. Guys are going to get hurt in freak accidents but you cannot change a rule every time a guy is knocked out.
Yes on 1-1 play you need to watch the player not the puck. But i'm talking about attacking fwds. Too many guys like Neil and Tootoo skating around like human torpedoes!

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11-13-2009, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nK View Post
Yes on 1-1 play you need to watch the player not the puck. But i'm talking about attacking fwds. Too many guys like Neil and Tootoo skating around like human torpedoes!
Another good example of the change in play happened tonight against Atlanta. Evander Kane gets the puck passed to him in the corner. The puck winds up in his feet, he looks down, he turns his head towards the boards and Matt Greene hits him resulting in a boarding penalty. Do you think Gordie Howe or Pat Verbeek turned their backs to an opposing defensemen? No, they are always expecting contact. Gordie would be ready to throw an elbow to keep people off of him. The new NHL players readily turn their backs on plays or turn to the side and watch their outlet passes resulting in huge collisions. Call me crazy but if I'm out on the ice and Tootoo or Neil are out there I'm keeping track of where they are and I'm expecting full contact if they are around me.

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11-14-2009, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
Another good example of the change in play happened tonight against Atlanta. Evander Kane gets the puck passed to him in the corner. The puck winds up in his feet, he looks down, he turns his head towards the boards and Matt Greene hits him resulting in a boarding penalty. Do you think Gordie Howe or Pat Verbeek turned their backs to an opposing defensemen? No, they are always expecting contact. Gordie would be ready to throw an elbow to keep people off of him. The new NHL players readily turn their backs on plays or turn to the side and watch their outlet passes resulting in huge collisions. Call me crazy but if I'm out on the ice and Tootoo or Neil are out there I'm keeping track of where they are and I'm expecting full contact if they are around me.
The problem with that is that the old Forsberg play were a guy with the puck throws himself into an on coming defender is now called on the guy with the puck.

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Old
11-14-2009, 03:18 AM
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This thread title was very deceiving.

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11-14-2009, 03:18 AM
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Let's just put them in tootoos and get rid of contact altogether

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