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Ok...enough...Burke time to own up.

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Old
11-14-2009, 11:16 AM
  #76
ULF_55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Leasty, you were Tlusty's biggest fan when we drafted him, thinking he was that blue chip prospect and you had pretty high hopes for him, comparing him to the likes of Pavel Datsyuk etc.

So its interesting to see you now tossing him into a deal to get that TOP 6 forward like Horton, when it was believed Tlusty would the eventual become that player himself.

I'm curious what has changed your position on Tlusty ?
Darn interesting you bring up Datsyuk who played his first NHL game at age 21.

2001-02 Detroit Red Wings NHL 70 11 24 35

Played 70 games and had 11 goals, as a 21 year old playing on a powerhouse team with Shannaham, Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, Robitaille, Hull.

No pressure and way down the list as a go to player.

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Old
11-14-2009, 11:17 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by 080 View Post
I don't agree with trading White. He's one of the only + players on the team. He's got a huge shot from the point and he's solid defensively. I'd keep him around. Same goes for Ponikarovsky. He's one of the few guys on the team that can shoot the puck. He's a big guy and he's very good defensively. Both are underrated in my opinion.
Burke will probably trade White because the majority of Leaf fans like him. White has some value trade wise. I hope Burke keeps him if at all possible!

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11-14-2009, 11:27 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Leasty, you were Tlusty's biggest fan when we drafted him, thinking he was that blue chip prospect and you had pretty high hopes for him, comparing him to the likes of Pavel Datsyuk etc.

So its interesting to see you now tossing him into a deal to get that TOP 6 forward like Horton, when it was believed Tlusty would the eventual become that player himself.

I'm curious what has changed your position on Tlusty ?
Always compared him to Alexander Frolov, though some scouts did compare him to Marleau/Datsyuk.

But it seems he isn't comfortable playing in Toronto - he is incapable of transitioning his offensive game in the AHL to the NHL. You don't give up on a 20-21 year old PPG player in the AHL (career in the AHL? 98 points in 97 games), but every time he gets a call-up with the Leafs, he always mentions his nervousness getting the best of him.

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11-14-2009, 11:39 AM
  #79
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You guys all need to be patient. Burke has done a great job. Did you really think he could turn around this mess of a team in one season? I see what he is doing. So do many fans. The difficulty is that we see where this team is going and we want it to get there now.

Goaltending is in great shape. The defense, which is harder to fix then anything else as defensemen are at a premium, is much better. The problem is that there were a lot of new faces and it took time for them to gel. Now they are getting better everyday. That is one very big piece going forward.

The Leafs are not bad enough to finish last or second last. They will likely finish anywhere between 8-12 for their draft pick. And remember this, if Kessel was available in this draft year, who do you think the Leafs would pick IF they had 1st overall. This is all moot as the leafs will NOT finish worst in the league. The 2011 pick will be worse likely between 14-18. So here is the question, would you trade 8th and 14th for 1st overall? Um, yes.

As for offense, Burke will pursue Savard or Marleau in the off season hard. He likely feels he needs one more player at this point to build towards a championship, as the young players coming up are factored into a long term plan.

Burke is in his first year of his plan. Even when he was in Anaheim, it took time to put that team together. It will take that time here. He has several good young prospects in the system right now. He is schooling them and improving them. The team will continue to evolve and improve. Just give it time.

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Old
11-14-2009, 12:30 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Darn interesting you bring up Datsyuk who played his first NHL game at age 21.

2001-02 Detroit Red Wings NHL 70 11 24 35

Played 70 games and had 11 goals, as a 21 year old playing on a powerhouse team with Shannaham, Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, Robitaille, Hull.

No pressure and way down the list as a go to player.
meaning he probably didn't get a lot of ice time?

tlusty can be datsyuk if he has or develops datsyuk's mental game. i suspect playing with and watching the likes of shanahan, yzerman, lidstrom, fedorov, etc. helped datsyuk become the player he is today. safe to assume those guys taught him how to be a pro and what it takes to be a great nhl player.

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11-14-2009, 01:18 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falon View Post
You guys all need to be patient. Burke has done a great job. Did you really think he could turn around this mess of a team in one season? I see what he is doing. So do many fans. The difficulty is that we see where this team is going and we want it to get there now.

Goaltending is in great shape. The defense, which is harder to fix then anything else as defensemen are at a premium, is much better. The problem is that there were a lot of new faces and it took time for them to gel. Now they are getting better everyday. That is one very big piece going forward.

The Leafs are not bad enough to finish last or second last. They will likely finish anywhere between 8-12 for their draft pick. And remember this, if Kessel was available in this draft year, who do you think the Leafs would pick IF they had 1st overall. This is all moot as the leafs will NOT finish worst in the league. The 2011 pick will be worse likely between 14-18. So here is the question, would you trade 8th and 14th for 1st overall? Um, yes.

As for offense, Burke will pursue Savard or Marleau in the off season hard. He likely feels he needs one more player at this point to build towards a championship, as the young players coming up are factored into a long term plan.

Burke is in his first year of his plan. Even when he was in Anaheim, it took time to put that team together. It will take that time here. He has several good young prospects in the system right now. He is schooling them and improving them. The team will continue to evolve and improve. Just give it time.
I respect your post and optimism, agree with your point about players needing time to gel, and hope you're correct with the prognosis. We all want the Leafs to win.

That said, a lot of frustration has nothing to do with their current record, and everything to do with the perception of a 'win-now' approach. Burke spoke to rebuilding properly, but has since moved prime draft choices in deals to accelerate the process. It's unclear (and unlikely) that we'll recoup those picks in subsequent trades. A better record alone would not stem the criticism and a bad record only fuels the fire.

Top picks don't guarantee success. But the absence of top picks makes it a hell of a lot harder to get there. The missing first in 2011 really sucks.

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Old
11-14-2009, 02:05 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by bleeney View Post
One) Stajan is nowhere near as good on the road as he is at home, when he has the advantage

Two) Grabovski has really picked up his face-off work over the last few weeks, particularly in the offensive zone and in PP situations (25/15 vs. Stajan's 28/29)

Three) Stajan is a wimp! After the draw, we need guys who will fight for the puck, play in traffic, battle for position. Guys who are fearless. Despite his size, Grabovski is more than willing to take his lumps. Stajan, although 2 inches taller and 20 lbs. heavier than Grabs, is the softest player on the team.

The sooner they move him outa' here, the better.
Much of that is your opinion. You weren't sure why he was on, but the simple fact is he did well in those key face-offs the previous game and overall this season he's been the teams best in that regard. That's why he was on. It's really very basic.

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Old
11-14-2009, 02:16 PM
  #83
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Well Said and also......

Quote:
Originally Posted by glgbill View Post
I respect your post and optimism, agree with your point about players needing time to gel, and hope you're correct with the prognosis. We all want the Leafs to win.

That said, a lot of frustration has nothing to do with their current record, and everything to do with the perception of a 'win-now' approach. Burke spoke to rebuilding properly, but has since moved prime draft choices in deals to accelerate the process. It's unclear (and unlikely) that we'll recoup those picks in subsequent trades. A better record alone would not stem the criticism and a bad record only fuels the fire.

Top picks don't guarantee success. But the absence of top picks makes it a hell of a lot harder to get there. The missing first in 2011 really sucks.
You make very good points. It is the win-now boneheadedness that got the Leafs to where they are. We believed finally this thing will be put right the proper way. Look around and discover its not rocket science. The serious contenders have been built by being awful for a few years and drafting properly. Chicago, Pittsburgh, Washington etc... That is how you become Cup contenders...also consider the Red Wings who always have a young corps drafted by themselves surrounding by some solid veterans. Always in contention.

The notion that in Toronto a GM cannot afford to build properly because fans would not accept lowly hockey teams???? If been a fan for 35 years and Ive seen many, many lowly hockey teams. And one does not have to look further than todays pathetic collection of journeymen wearing blue and white. Burke doesn't understand that todays NHL doesn't have teams built to challenge the 1970's broadstreet bullies. Youth Skill and Speed wins. Not Truculence Billigerence and Ignorance. Detroit and Pittsburgh, finalists in the last two years, don't play Burke philosophy hockey.

Why not follow their blueprint? I love Kessel..he is awesome. Anyone who cant see that doesn't really know hockey but.......I think Kessel is the piece of the puzzle that puts you over the top. Its like buying the accessories before buying the outfit. We needed to draft high for the next couple of years and get better before adding Phil Kessel type players. If Burke doesn't make that deal, then the Leafs are looking pretty good right now aren't they? If you knew that next years number one could very well be The Leafs' for the first time in a long time then you would be happy at their pathetic 3-14 record (or if you prefer the stupid NHL's 3-9-5).

Kadri looks good and his numbers is the OHL pale in comparison to the projected number one overall next year, Taylor Hall. Hall is averaging almost 2 points per game (44 in 23) and Kadri is a point per game (17 in 17). So there you go..I believe Hall is that big center that the Leafs need who looks like he could be a franchise player. But the Leafs stand NO CHANCE now of getting him. We can sign UFAs but its rare you win Cups in that manner.

Burke, I hope for your sake the Leafs stop stinking and don't finish 30th this year or you might be run out of town by the masses..literally. At least you have the Canes eh?

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11-14-2009, 02:19 PM
  #84
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Hall is a winger

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11-14-2009, 02:22 PM
  #85
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We will essentially be able to add one top-flight forward through free agency. If you consider what we already have, assuming we sign Gustavsson long-term, we will easily have enough talent to get into the playoffs. Winning the cup? Zero chance. Zero.
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11-14-2009, 02:22 PM
  #86
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I stand corrected, nevertheless he looks good right now at LW. Thanks.

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11-14-2009, 02:56 PM
  #87
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Was this really just posted after we battled pretty much evenly, with our backup goalie in net, losing only on a disallowed goal that should have counted, against what is apparently one of the most talented teams in the league?

really?

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Old
11-14-2009, 03:35 PM
  #88
hockeyfanz
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What?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Was this really just posted after we battled pretty much evenly, with our backup goalie in net, losing only on a disallowed goal that should have counted, against what is apparently one of the most talented teams in the league?

really?
Are you kidding me man? The Leafs are the worst outfit in hockey. You know Carolina will turn it around because of their talent and they were the Eastern Conf finalists last year. The Leafs have won 3 times in 17 games dude. They stink. They have poor Phil out there looking around for someone to play with. As a another thread reads...He is getting "Sundined" But Mats even had much better talent around him than this poor kid..who still has managed 4 goals in 5 games. Stop saying look how close they were...if only they.....just another bad break game.....disallowed goals...bad officiating. Did you ever think if Hagman were a top notch player (no slight against him because I like him) he woulda buried it without having to go to video.

Thats exactly what the point is.. So close but hands of stone..Except for Phil...all of them. Plumbers.

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11-14-2009, 03:40 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Are you kidding me man? The Leafs are the worst outfit in hockey. You know Carolina will turn it around because of their talent and they were the Eastern Conf finalists last year. The Leafs have won 3 times in 17 games dude. They stink. They have poor Phil out there looking around for someone to play with. As a another thread reads...He is getting "Sundined" But Mats even had much better talent around him than this poor kid..who still has managed 4 goals in 5 games. Stop saying look how close they were...if only they.....just another bad break game.....disallowed goals...bad officiating. Did you ever think if Hagman were a top notch player (no slight against him because I like him) he woulda buried it without having to go to video.

Thats exactly what the point is.. So close but hands of stone..Except for Phil...all of them. Plumbers.
how soon did you expect burke to turn things around?

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11-14-2009, 04:16 PM
  #90
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Everyone who thinks we arent going to finish in the bottom 5

Did you really think we would be the 29th team a 1/4 into the season? Probably not

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Old
11-15-2009, 01:13 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by bloated View Post
how soon did you expect burke to turn things around?
well its going to be a lot longer when hes signing bad FAs like komi and making bad trades like exelby and giving away #1 and #2 draft picks like they mean nothing

the sickening thing is he was so hot to trade up for taveres yet he gives away a chance to get next years tavares in hall and seguin dumb

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11-15-2009, 01:48 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by tzinc View Post
look at their draft picks - they dont need savard if they dont want him -they hold all the cards
He's absolutely essential if they plan to win in the short term.
But yes, it is depressing that they have a better team then we do now and a significantly more promising future IMO.

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