I really want some justification about Jack being anything more than an average #4 defenseman. Honestly? What has he done other than play a lot? He has most certainly not been our best defenseman.
He's been our best defensive defenseman but Doughty's been the best overall. How is this for justification? Jack is this team's #2 defenseman. You've been pointing out in this thread how we're a good team and all this jazz but that's not possible with a #4 or #5 d-man eating up #2 minutes.
You sure notice a lot by not watching the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8
And Terry Murray's system... which has generated quite a few goals? If you ask me, the problem is lack of finish from guys (but that's not that big of a deal, finish comes as confidence comes)
Yes it has, but when the first line goes cold, tell me if you still love this system. Finish doesn't always come.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8
Terry Murray isn't perfect, but how many games have been lost because of failed powerplays? I would much rather have a strong ES team than PP team.
I'd much rather have both. How many games have been lost for only one reason anyway? Or how many times has the PK **** the bed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8
You can talk about Murray's demeanor, but that has nothing to do with veterans like Handzus making egregious turnovers, or Quick being unable to make enough big saves. I don't want to criticize your post specifically, but people are talking about TM not doing all he can do to win, but did Quick? or Kopitar? or JMFJ? No one did enough to win, that's why we didn't win.
Brown is not a smart enough hockey player to pull off the fancy **** that he tries every game. The sooner someone makes him aware of this the better. He is at his best when he plays a simple straightforward game. The Brown of two years ago put people through walls, played good D, and scored goals because of his hard work. That was the Brown that was being compared to #28. I miss that Brown.
I agree with this and I was thinking this after the last game and during this game. Brown seems to be one of those guys that gets a little intimidated by being surrounded by a few talented players in the room and decides to try and up his finesse to match. I mean, not even Kopitar is throwing the puck between his skates and "fool" the defense. Nobody is fooled by it anymore, because it is his only move and he uses it every game. Brown is getting carried away attempting to be a dangler and needs to get back to his power forward basics and also stepping up his leadership skills.
__________________
"It has not been a good day. I lost my glasses early this morning and I had to go buy a pair of 79 dollar reading glasses today. 79 bucks. You can literally get them at Costco, three-for-20." - Darryl Sutter's response to going up 2-0 in the series.
It's not comparable at all. Simmonds is just tempering our expectations, we still love him as a 3rd liner. POS stopped being an NHL player by game 30 of the season last year, and yes, Purcell (considering his contract) is a much better value than POS.
You don't understand the words you use.
Just because the level of tempering differs doesn't mean the situations aren't the same.
You take personal timeouts and pace around the room when the computer is frustrating you in NHL10, don't you?
That's what I was basing it off of. I am pretty darn good at the game, and every once in a while you will run into that game where nothing goes right. No matter how crazy you set someone up or how good of a chance you get, you always hit the post, or the goalie makes some ridiculous save etc etc... But hitting that pause button, grabbing a drink, getting your mind off it for a minute, and suddenly your shots start getting through
By not calling the timeout, it was quite evident what Murray was trying to do. He was trying to utilize that surge of urgency the guys were feeling about trying to get that next goal soon and getting back into the game, but it completely backfired. They got severely overzealous and started making just absolutely atrocious turnovers, that was the result of mishandling the puck more than anything. After that third goal, you could have predicted what was going to happen. Because both of those goals were on the rush going the other way after a turnover or overzealous play in the offensive zone. It was only going to get worse... Murray should have recognized that. The type of goals being scored, with the type of atmosphere on the ice was only going to compound itself over time.
He's been our best defensive defenseman but Doughty's been the best overall. How is this for justification? Jack is this team's #2 defenseman. You've been pointing out in this thread how we're a good team and all this jazz but that's not possible with a #4 or #5 d-man eating up #2 minutes.
You sure notice a lot by not watching the game.
Yes it has, but when the first line goes cold, tell me if you still love this system. Finish doesn't always come.
I'd much rather have both. How many games have been lost for only one reason anyway? Or how many times has the PK **** the bed?
No one did but it all starts at the top.
lolwut? Scuderi and Greene both do more defensively than Jack does.
How many times has the PK shat the bed? we've only lost in regulation 7 times, so you won't have a hard time finding evidence either way. Also take into account how mediocre our goaltending has been.
Quote:
Originally Posted by William H Bonney
You don't understand the words you use.
Just because the level of tempering differs doesn't mean the situations aren't the same.
Purcell is in the press box. Great value.
Well let me rephrase it this way. We replaced POS with Williams, and I am quite happy with that. Nothing will ever make me believe that Williams is in any regards to the game worse than POS.
Murray needs to calm the team down, infuse motivation, and attempt to change the momentum of the game. He is only capable of one of those things, but it is amazing how enacting all three can have an effect on how well a team slows down the game and controls the puck properly.
Murray is the coach. He is responsible for everything. If the Kings reverse and lose every game he is fired, not Quick, not Kopitar, not JMFJ... It is one thing if a player is slacking off, but if the whole team is making mistakes, that is a leadership issue. Murray is #1 in line when it comes to leadership. Who else is going to do it? Brown isn't. Timeouts are critical. Murray obviously has an issue with using timeouts. Pausing the game, walking away for a moment, shaking yourself out of it, and calmly walking back to the controller is a very powerful tool. Even outside of that though, Murray did very little to stem the tide.
It was an intentional example. It was the best one that came to mind. Sometimes I play a lot of ranked play and/or tournaments in multiple games that I play, and if things are going bad, the best thing to do is not get mad about it or overreact, but to use that pause button or create one Murray has a pause button, but he never presses it, and it shows, in more games than I can remember to count now.
lolwut? Scuderi and Greene both do more defensively than Jack does.
How many times has the PK shat the bed? we've only lost in regulation 7 times, so you won't have a hard time finding evidence either way. Also take into account how mediocre our goaltending has been.
You should know, you watch all the games right?
Also, the coach you've been defending all thread obviously doesn't agree with you either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8
Well let me rephrase it this way. We replaced POS with Williams, and I am quite happy with that. Nothing will ever make me believe that Williams is in any regards to the game worse than POS.
So am I. But that has nothing to do with what I'm saying.
But it may also have something to do with JMFJ being seemingly unable to play with Scuderi or Greene either.
IDK
Why would Jack being "seemingly unable to play with Scuderi or Greene" result in him being treated as the team's #2 d-man instead of an average #4 or #5? That makes no sense.
I personally thought the JJ - Scuds pairing was a good one, but I think Murray wanted Scuderi (a better version of OD at this stage) paired with Doughty.
Why would Jack being "seemingly unable to play with Scuderi or Greene" result in him being treated as the team's #2 d-man instead of an average #4 or #5? That makes no sense.
I personally thought the JJ - Scuds pairing was a good one, but I think Murray wanted Scuderi (a better version of OD at this stage) paired with Doughty.
Because it would result in Jack getting more icetime as sort of the the guy that goes out when you don't need Doughty's offense or Scuderi/Greene's defense
Because it would result in Jack getting more icetime as sort of the the guy that goes out when you don't need Doughty's offense or Scuderi/Greene's defense
Still makes no sense.
One, Scuds and Greene don't play with each other.
Two, based on your "reasoning" that means all three of them would play more than Jack.
Three, I think you looked at a box score, saw Jack with a -3, and assumed he sucked. +/- is a worthless stat, you didn't watch the game, and Jack had nothing to do with any of those goals being scored.
Two, based on your "reasoning" that means all three of them would play more than Jack.
Three, I think you looked at a box score, saw Jack with a -3, and assumed he sucked. +/- is a worthless stat, you didn't watch the game, and Jack had nothing to do with any of those goals being scored.
Two, based on your "reasoning" that means all three of them would play more than Jack.
Three, I think you looked at a box score, saw Jack with a -3, and assumed he sucked. +/- is a worthless stat, you didn't watch the game, and Jack had nothing to do with any of those goals being scored.
Seriously? Are you seriously comparing Simmonds to Boyle and Purcell?
Ya that's why hes being matched up against the other teams top players every night...because he has zero hockey sense. Simmonds point totals look like they will improve drastically this season and he is doing a decent job of defending other teams top lines. I mean..what more can you ask for from a guy his age?
You're right on one thing. It's not fair to compare Simmonds and Purcell. Purcell's a skill guy and Simmonds is a grinder. Simmonds job is much easier to perform.
I'll have to disagree with everything else.
The Simmonds line plays against the easiest opposition....not the best. There's a pretty big discrepancy here. Here are the numbers to back it up. So I don't know where you get that information.
Also, if you check out the link from Billy the Kid, you'll see that quite a few people do have unrealistic expectations for Simmonds. One example that sticks out is the Iginla comparison. Please!
As far as hockey sense goes, you don't need hockey sense to work and skate hard. Simmonds hockey sense is well below average for a NHL hockey player. Simmonds gets by from hard work not setting up the PP.
Damn glad I had no way of keeping track of this game!!! Flew to Tampa yesterday and I'm heading to the Kings game tonight with a friend from high school.
I better see the Kings that I've been watching all year and not whatever team took the ice last night.
I was glad to see that only 3 of the goals were scored on Quick. Ersberg has got to get things right in his head. He can't possibly have any confidence now.
Also looks/sounds like Pavelec had an incredible game.
It was just one of those games. They happen. Atlanta scored on pretty much every chance they had. Like Jim Fox said, these games happen to every team in the NHL. It's now about how the Kings respond in there next game. Put the game behind them and get ready for the next one.
Not to compared the Red Wings and the Kings in the slightest, but the Wings did get shalacked by the Jackets 8-0 last year, their worse loss in years, and went on to the SCF. So...all is not lost.
However, a few things I think need pointing out:
- Johnson is not our #2, not defensively, not offensively, not anything-ly. There's a reason his plus minus has been in the tubes all year, whereas guys like Drewiske have been leading the team. There's a reason Jack has been getting paired with everyone on the team, in an effort to boost his game. To be quite honest, in my opinion we've gotten rid of two young defenseman (Gleason, Quincey) in favor of Johnson, both of which are leaps and bounds better in all facets of the game at this point. That's troubling. I know it's a stretch to say we "gave up" Quincey for Johnson, considering Colorado may have had no interest in Quincey. But ask yourself this, who would you take right now?
- Like I said earlier in the thread, we have a goaltending problem. I say it's not major, because Quick has truthfully had some stellar games this season, and put together some nice streaks. He is one of the top goaltenders in the league in wins. Quick is perfectly capable of being a #1 goaltender in this league, and has proven so this very season. However, the inconsistency has to stop. I don't know whether it's nerves, a dry spell, or what, but he needs to figure out his game. Goaltending and porous 07/08 defense lost us last night's game, not offense. Which brings me to my last point...
- Maybe I still have just a few small synapses working in my brain after last night's torture, but I haven't quite abandoned enough logic to start criticizing an offense that is still among the top five in the league in goals scored. All this talk about "it doesn't matter if it was 1-0, 3-0, or 10-0" is, quite frankly, ridiculous. Horrible defense and poor goaltending lost us last night's game. Yes, obviously, we didn't score. However, the entire team was completely demoralized after the second period, and who can blame them? If you're honestly expecting me to sit here and criticize an offense that put 38 shots on goal compared to its opponents 21, you're insane. The bounces weren't there. Pavelec stood on his head. I think blaming last night's loss on an offense which has CARRIED this team thus far in the season is a really ****ing dumb excuse. It worked last season - it won't this year. Sorry.
Not to compared the Red Wings and the Kings in the slightest, but the Wings did get shalacked by the Jackets 8-0 last year, their worse loss in years, and went on to the SCF. So...all is not lost.
However, a few things I think need pointing out:
- Johnson is not our #2, not defensively, not offensively, not anything-ly. There's a reason his plus minus has been in the tubes all year, whereas guys like Drewiske have been leading the team. There's a reason Jack has been getting paired with everyone on the team, in an effort to boost his game. To be quite honest, in my opinion we've gotten rid of two young defenseman (Gleason, Quincey) in favor of Johnson, both of which are leaps and bounds better in all facets of the game at this point. That's troubling. I know it's a stretch to say we "gave up" Quincey for Johnson, considering Colorado may have had no interest in Quincey. But ask yourself this, who would you take right now?
- Like I said earlier in the thread, we have a goaltending problem. I say it's not major, because Quick has truthfully had some stellar games this season, and put together some nice streaks. He is one of the top goaltenders in the league in wins. Quick is perfectly capable of being a #1 goaltender in this league, and has proven so this very season. However, the inconsistency has to stop. I don't know whether it's nerves, a dry spell, or what, but he needs to figure out his game. Goaltending and porous 07/08 defense lost us last night's game, not offense. Which brings me to my last point...
- Maybe I still have just a few small synapses working in my brain after last night's torture, but I haven't quite abandoned enough logic to start criticizing an offense that is still among the top five in the league in goals scored. All this talk about "it doesn't matter if it was 1-0, 3-0, or 10-0" is, quite frankly, ridiculous. Horrible defense and poor goaltending lost us last night's game. Yes, obviously, we didn't score. However, the entire team was completely demoralized after the second period, and who can blame them? If you're honestly expecting me to sit here and criticize an offense that put 38 shots on goal compared to its opponents 21, you're insane. The bounces weren't there. Pavelec stood on his head. I think blaming last night's loss on an offense which has CARRIED this team thus far in the season is a really ****ing dumb excuse. It worked last season - it won't this year. Sorry.
I believe Handzus is part of the offense and he single-handedly killed this game tonight with that horrific turnover that led to the Kovalchuk breakaway. In all honesty though, I thought the offense was bringing it and the Atlanta goalie played out of his mind all the way to the end.
As for Quick, one fluke goal you can't blame him for and then Kovalchuk on a breakaway from his own blueline. Obviously want the Bogosian goal back but that fake shot move works in the hands of skilled players like Bogosian. I agree with pulling him to maybe shake the team up but a timeout to accompany the yank would have been prudent as Ersberg was thrown to the wolves. As for Ersberg, I thought he was ****.
My biggest issue with this game is that I am officially done with Ivanans. So TM sends him out to send a message and Atlanta has two fighters out there to choose from. He "challenges" Boulton in passing and Boulton declines. Ivanans continues to skate his shift and, instead of FORCING the other team to respond, he is REACTING instead of ACTING again as Schubert had to make him do something with that cross-check. To top it all off, he looks like complete **** against a glorified middle-weight and BAILS ON THE FIGHT!!!
I emphatically believe in carrying an enforcer and can live with some dumb penalties as long as their is a balance; that balance is kicking other team's respective ***** all over the ice. The guy is a joke and instead of inspiring his team like he is supposed to do, he further demoralizes them and gets Richardson's ass kicked in the process as well.
Harrold is useless out there and so is Richardson for the most part. I can live with Richardson out there but some changes need to be made in regards to toughness and agressiveness from the 4th line.
My biggest issue with this game is that I am officially done with Ivanans. So TM sends him out to send a message and Atlanta has two fighters out there to choose from. He "challenges" Boulton in passing and Boulton declines. Ivanans continues to skate his shift and, instead of FORCING the other team to respond, he is REACTING instead of ACTING again as Schubert had to make him do something with that cross-check. To top it all off, he looks like complete **** against a glorified middle-weight and BAILS ON THE FIGHT!!!
I emphatically believe in carrying an enforcer and can live with some dumb penalties as long as their is a balance; that balance is kicking other team's respective ***** all over the ice. The guy is a joke and instead of inspiring his team like he is supposed to do, he further demoralizes them and gets Richardson's ass kicked in the process as well.
Harrold is useless out there and so is Richardson for the most part. I can live with Richardson out there but some changes need to be made in regards to toughness and agressiveness from the 4th line.
