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Is Kessel about to be "Sundined"?

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Old
11-14-2009, 11:07 AM
  #26
Al14
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Originally Posted by HellasLEAF View Post
patience guys. we got capspace and a highly motivated buyer in Burke who is known to get what he wants when it comes to free agents. he's bringing the cavalry I have no doubt, but it won't be until the summer.
Patience? I've already spent 42 years being PATIENT!

Will Burke realistically be able to get the RIGHT free agent in the summer! He may just have to settle for someone less than ideal.

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Old
11-14-2009, 11:11 AM
  #27
Mess
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Originally Posted by LeafsInSeven View Post
Mythbusting:

Mats Sundin had plenty of quality teammates over his career with the Leafs. He was a terrific power center but he seldom substantially elevated the production of his linemates, snipers especially looked better on another center's wing (Mogilny, Berezin).

Testament of the type of player Sundin really was: whether he was playing with Gary Roberts (future HofF) or Alex Mogilny (future HofF) or Steve Thomas or Jonas Hoglund or Fred Modin or Mike Johnson or Doug Gilmour (HofF) or Derek King or Lonny Bohonos, he produced goals and points at approximately the same rate.
I agree fully .. Sundin was always accountable for himself and played a high level, but his teammates were just followers and were never elevated by his play. Even when he had Mogilny, Nolan, Roberts etc as wingers and Newy as his support center or Ron Francis.

The perfect example is Gary Roberts .. In the 2002-03 playoffs, with an injured Sundin and Alyn McCauley as his center now Roberts elevated his and his linemates/teammates play.. Leafs went to the third round with Sundin mostly on IR.. McCauley was barely able to hold down a roster spot on the team but as Roberts linemate he tore up the playoffs with 15 points..

Kessel is a lot like Mogilny rather then Sundin, in that he is very skilled offensively and will score a lot of goals, but he is not a catalyst that will make his teammates better. Kessel is essentially a support player then by definition of stand alone offensive player.

Yesterday's game was a prefect example.. In the first half the game you wouldn't even have known Kessel was dressed, and then he snipes a couple of goals and now he is in the spotlight.

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Old
11-14-2009, 11:13 AM
  #28
hullsy47
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Originally Posted by Brentbreakaway23 View Post
Burke has GOT to make it priority #1 to get Kessel a real center. We have plenty of wingers. Kadri or Stalberg and Kessel will be very good together one day, but won't do squat with Mitch or Stajan as their centers.
he ws drafted as a potential franchise player .and he has a chance to be a prolific goal scorer fot the next 10 years or so .i like kessel because he shots with a purpose to score .right now hes the leafs best offensive player and its only star ......so ya hes sundined ..lmao

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Old
11-14-2009, 11:31 AM
  #29
Hurt
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I don't think at this point we can afford to wait till 2010 Free Agency to get a center. Thoughts?

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11-14-2009, 11:32 AM
  #30
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Yep, 5 games in and he will never play with anyone worthwhile.

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Old
11-14-2009, 12:30 PM
  #31
iPunch
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Its funny, I think Sundin in his prime would have had good chemistry with Kessel now.

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Old
11-14-2009, 12:34 PM
  #32
Volcanologist
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Don't worry, Burke knows we need more elite talent. Kessel is awesome even surrounded by a group of relative plumbers, but you need teams to be worried about more than one player.

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Old
11-14-2009, 01:01 PM
  #33
spitfires07
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can we all just stop worrying that kessel will never get a legit first line centre to play with?

Burke knows what he is doing people, just have some patience and the leafs will be a playoff contender in no time

On a side note, I really hope the leafs call stalberg back up and give him a chance to play with kessel

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Old
11-14-2009, 01:07 PM
  #34
dubey
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
Don't worry, Burke knows we need more elite talent. Kessel is awesome even surrounded by a group of relative plumbers, but you need teams to be worried about more than one player.
Imagine him playing with players that could create space for him? Rather than him having to find it himself?


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Old
11-14-2009, 01:18 PM
  #35
mapes
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Stumpy Thomas was a pretty skilled player (regarding you saying only Mogilny and Roberts..).

But I don't see that as being the case. Tlusty and Kadri are waiting in the wings and might both become skilled NHL'ers

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Old
11-14-2009, 01:19 PM
  #36
zeke
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Yeah, poor sundin ever only got to play with crap like Mogilny, Nolan, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Thomas, Gilmour, Clark, Leetch, Kaberle, Mccabe, Svehla, Belfour, and Joseph.

poor guy.

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Old
11-14-2009, 02:06 PM
  #37
no13matssundin
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Yeah, poor sundin ever only got to play with crap like Mogilny, Nolan, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Thomas, Gilmour, Clark, Leetch, Kaberle, Mccabe, Svehla, Belfour, and Joseph.

poor guy.
Wow, I guess I must have missed those games when Belfour and Joesph we're powering their way into the offensive zone and dishing to Mats.... but otherwise, I get what you're saying

Like I said, he had some players that we're good (forgot about Nolan and Niewy... and don't even think about putting Berezin in there... he, like Blake, was a puck hog and thought he could do it all himself; exactly what Sundin/Kessel DIDN'T/DOESN'T need... If I had a dollar for every time he did a sole man rush into a zone 1-on-2/3, only to cough up the puck, I'd own a yacht) but, again, they we're on the downside of their careers when Sundin got them. I hear what you're saying, but let's not overplay the fact that Sundin had multitudes of awesome wingers. Fact is, he should have had better.

And, also, to the person who said "Jonas Hoglund" and "Good" in the same sentence, you are either very very optimistic in life, or never saw him play with Mats. A rusty nail had more finish than that guy.

On Kessel... yes, it's early, but all I was wondering was whether I was alone in my assessment that Kessel could be hung out to dry a-la #13.

Good discussion though.

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Old
11-14-2009, 02:24 PM
  #38
EazyB97
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Sundin had a drought in linemates, but he started and finished on strong lines. He started with Gilmour and usually Clark, Gartner or Andreychuck (and sometimes both wingers if he wasn't with Gilmour), then finished with Roberts and Almo. In the middle he suffered through Hoglund, Renberg, Modin, etc..

As for Kessel, he's suffering a bit now, I'm sure it'll be addressed.

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Old
11-14-2009, 02:59 PM
  #39
zeke
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yeah, Modin was so bad that he ended up a first line winger on a cup winner.

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Old
11-14-2009, 03:05 PM
  #40
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4 goals in 5 gives without a "Real" center

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Old
11-14-2009, 03:15 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Al14 View Post
Patience? I've already spent 42 years being PATIENT!

Will Burke realistically be able to get the RIGHT free agent in the summer! He may just have to settle for someone less than ideal.
42 years isnt an excuse to be impatient and make hasty decisions, Leafs GM should play the same field as everyone else

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Old
11-14-2009, 03:16 PM
  #42
My Sweet Shadow
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Is his career going to end after this season? With all the capsace coming off the books in the offseason, Burke will make considerable changes. Last year was defense and goaltending; this year it's forwards.

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Old
11-14-2009, 03:44 PM
  #43
Calacatz
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Originally Posted by Al14 View Post
Lol, Hoglund and good!!! Hoglund was a plug that couldn't finish much of what Sundin started!!!
I was gonna say!

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Old
11-14-2009, 03:47 PM
  #44
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Kovalchuck Kadri Kessel

the "Special K" line!

Thse are my dreams for 2010-2011

If they can somehow swing both Savard & Kovi by dumping the terrible contracts they currently have then I will say Burke means business.

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Old
11-14-2009, 04:07 PM
  #45
johnny_rudeboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calacatz View Post
Kovalchuck Kadri Kessel

the "Special K" line!

Thse are my dreams for 2010-2011

If they can somehow swing both Savard & Kovi by dumping the terrible contracts they currently have then I will say Burke means business.
He better get Savard if he plan to have Kovalchuck and Kessel on the same line seeing as neither of them can score with out him.

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Old
11-14-2009, 04:11 PM
  #46
dimi78
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Originally Posted by 2plus50equalsCup View Post
You scared the crap out of me. I thought your title read "sidelined" not "Sundined".

On your topic, I'm fairly confident that this time around the Leafs will get some "grade A" talent to play with our skilled players. It may take 2-3 more years but you'll see an influx of more top talent via free agency or our own development. I say development since I see the organization is actually letting some of our younger talent grow on the farm instead of playing them with the big team prematurely.
Maybe because your a Leaf fan you probably don't know that development doesn't just occur on the farm in fact organizations who are successful in player development develop players in the NHL something the Leafs never do and it's really tiresome to see all the time.

Bozak, Stalberg, Hansen and Tlusty are NHL ready with NO NHL OPPORTUNITY TO DEVELOP IN THE NHL. All 4 of these kids are just as effective and defensive responsible to a large part of what is on the big club only they have a greater upside so please don't give me this crap of bringing them up prematurely when and if they get a proper chance and by proper I mean a full 82 game season playing in all situations they will have ups and downs developing even when you think it's time.

Very few young players come into this league with all guns blazing consistently game in and game out so when you have a mediocre roster as the Leafs have right now it's counter productive to try and win with this group you know is not good enough to win in the playoffs to not develop NHL capable young guys IN THE NHL.

How else can one get experience when the opportunity isn't there. Why is it that other teams take what has been a number of our young guys and develop them into star NHL players playing with there NHL team when we trade them yet here they don't get a sniff of an opportunity.

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Old
11-14-2009, 04:21 PM
  #47
Rusty Shackleford
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Burke's got money to spend this off-season, Savard has the connections here, his family lives here, I'm not worried.

He'll be our 1st line centre next year, and him and Kessel will be back to doing business.

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Old
11-14-2009, 04:29 PM
  #48
Kamal007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calacatz View Post
Kovalchuck Kadri Kessel

the "Special K" line!

Thse are my dreams for 2010-2011

If they can somehow swing both Savard & Kovi by dumping the terrible contracts they currently have then I will say Burke means business.
If Kovalchuk hits the open market, which he most likely won't, he is gonna want 10 mill a year. Savard will be looking anywhere from 5-7, I think. Are we really going to have upwards of 23 million locked in Kovalchuk, Savard, Kessel? I certainly hope so.

And isn't it widely rumored that if Kovalchuk doesn't sign in ATL, he will go to Russia? That would be terrible.

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Old
11-14-2009, 05:41 PM
  #49
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I haven't read any of the posts, but I feel very confident that BB will add significantly to the forward units during his time here. Kessel will be getting the right support, I'm sure.

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Old
11-14-2009, 06:11 PM
  #50
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My dream off-season would be to sign Savard (6.0) and Jokinen(5.0), and let all other RFA's (other than Gustavsson) and UFA's walk. Bring up Kadri, Hanson, Stalberg and Bozak as regulars.

Stalberg-Savard-Kessel
Kadri-Jokinen-Hagman
Blake-Grabovski-Bozak
Rosehill-Hanson-Orr

Kaberle-Komisarek
Beauchemin-Schenn
Gunnarson-Finger

Gustavsson
Reimer

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