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Could Minnesota support 2 NHL teams?

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Old
11-14-2009, 10:58 AM
  #1
fatloui
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Could Minnesota support 2 NHL teams?

Minnesota is probably one of, if not the, most popular hockey spots in the US, but could the state support 2 NHL teams? I would think a second team would have to be Minneapolis/St Paul based as well, but I'm not really sure.
I'd think it obvious to say the area is more deserving of having two teams teams than the Los Angeles area having two or the New York City area having three. I don't hear it talked about ever, though, so I'm wondering if Minnesota natives think the area could financially support a second team (assuming that's why it's not discussed despite all the struggling franchises in the league).

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11-14-2009, 11:36 AM
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No chance. Only if you took away the University of Minnesota's team and forced all the Gopher fans to become season ticket holders and support this new NHL franchise. Okay, you'd have to take away St. Cloud State and Minnesota State's programs too. What I am getting at is there are just too many other hockey options out there from Div 1 and High School all the way down to minor hockey. For hockey parents every weekend is tournaments (many times out of town) and most weeknights is practices and games (often multiple children playing). Junior hockey (USHL) couldn't even survive here. One very healthy franchise is all we need. Give us another one and it becomes two average at best franchises.

Thats my two cents.

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11-14-2009, 12:37 PM
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I agree. While Minnesota is a strong hockey market, they would be hard pressed to support 2 franchises. They would both need to be in the Twin Cities area, which is most likely not big enough to support two franchises in the same league. If any new teams were brought into the Minnesota area, it would have to be a USHL team or some other minor league team. However, even that may be a problem because of how many other hockey programs are in the state already.

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11-14-2009, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Pioneer13 View Post
No chance. Only if you took away the University of Minnesota's team and forced all the Gopher fans to become season ticket holders and support this new NHL franchise. Okay, you'd have to take away St. Cloud State and Minnesota State's programs too. What I am getting at is there are just too many other hockey options out there from Div 1 and High School all the way down to minor hockey. For hockey parents every weekend is tournaments (many times out of town) and most weeknights is practices and games (often multiple children playing). Junior hockey (USHL) couldn't even survive here. One very healthy franchise is all we need. Give us another one and it becomes two average at best franchises.

Thats my two cents.
Makes a lot of sense, now I won't wonder anymore, thanks.

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11-14-2009, 03:32 PM
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It would probably do better than some of the more failing ones, but I don't think its logical. If anything, give one to Milwaukee or something. Minnesota needs geographically closer rivalries.

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11-15-2009, 05:36 PM
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No chance, but Personally I would like to bring our AHL affiliate to Duluth. I live the same distance from St. Paul as I do Duluth, so being budget minded I would love that option even for ECHL. I know there's no chance of that either, but its fun too dream.

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11-15-2009, 06:17 PM
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The MSP area isn't close to being large enough for two. Heck, we can barely support one team right now. We're an overrated fan base. The passion isn't present.

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11-15-2009, 07:44 PM
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No chance, but Personally I would like to bring our AHL affiliate to Duluth. I live the same distance from St. Paul as I do Duluth, so being budget minded I would love that option even for ECHL. I know there's no chance of that either, but its fun too dream.
That would be amazing in Duluth!

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The MSP area isn't close to being large enough for two. Heck, we can barely support one team right now. We're an overrated fan base. The passion isn't present.

We rank 10th out of 30 in merchandise sold. 360 Sellouts (which will probably end against Phoenix coming up according to Leiopold) and a fan base that isn't fair weather (although it is beginning to show a lot more) and is knowledgable about hockey make it a pretty prominent fan base wouldn't you agree?

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11-15-2009, 08:11 PM
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11-15-2009, 09:31 PM
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We rank 10th out of 30 in merchandise sold. 360 Sellouts (which will probably end against Phoenix coming up according to Leiopold) and a fan base that isn't fair weather (although it is beginning to show a lot more) and is knowledgeable about hockey make it a pretty prominent fan base wouldn't you agree?
Prominent? Yes. Special? No. In the end, the Wild run second fiddle here to multiple sports. We may buy tickets and jerseys, but the passion isn't there. There's no hype on the streets, little talk in the media, and the fans are often dead at the X. Too much Minnesota nice.

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11-17-2009, 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
Prominent? Yes. Special? No. In the end, the Wild run second fiddle here to multiple sports. We may buy tickets and jerseys, but the passion isn't there. There's no hype on the streets, little talk in the media, and the fans are often dead at the X. Too much Minnesota nice.
I hate to say it but I agree. There are a lot of great Wild fans in the state but the Twins and Vikings trump the Wild.

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11-17-2009, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
Prominent? Yes. Special? No. In the end, the Wild run second fiddle here to multiple sports. We may buy tickets and jerseys, but the passion isn't there. There's no hype on the streets, little talk in the media, and the fans are often dead at the X. Too much Minnesota nice.
I would disagree. Being a medium market. Not NY but a one team town either.

Aside from football fans. I would say the wild rank right up there in passion. I love all the MN teams with the Wolves ranking behind most gopher sports. We will never be able to have the passion of the Candadian teams.

Its a case of too many teams. A fan cannot live and die with the Vikes, Wild, Twins, Gopher hockey, football, basketball, high school sports, town ball baseball, or what ever you get behind.

Yeah i talked about JJ Hardy at a gopher hockey game, i also talked abut Havlat and Buddish at twins games, or Royce White tail gating for the Vikes.

Come play off time, i get behind that team and go wild(no pun inendend)there aren't enough teams and not enough people where the true one sport die hards come trough.

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11-20-2009, 08:56 AM
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you're not even selling out home games this year. to even begin to think a 2nd team is feasible, you'd have to have continuous sellouts, regardless of team success and a boat load of pent up demand to sell another 20,000 tickets, 41 nights a year. i see no way minnesota even gets a sniff at another franchise.

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11-20-2009, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonGoldenFlames View Post
you're not even selling out home games this year. to even begin to think a 2nd team is feasible, you'd have to have continuous sellouts, regardless of team success and a boat load of pent up demand to sell another 20,000 tickets, 41 nights a year. i see no way minnesota even gets a sniff at another franchise.
While I do agree that MN wouldn't be able to handle two teams, the Wild has sold out all 350something games played in club history. We hold the longest sellout streak. Oh, and the Xcel only holds 18,064.

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11-21-2009, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonGoldenFlames View Post
you're not even selling out home games this year. to even begin to think a 2nd team is feasible, you'd have to have continuous sellouts, regardless of team success and a boat load of pent up demand to sell another 20,000 tickets, 41 nights a year. i see no way minnesota even gets a sniff at another franchise.
[mod: deleted] and yes the Wild are selling out their games and have been. Don't be so about it.


Last edited by Fugu: 11-21-2009 at 07:12 PM. Reason: flame
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11-21-2009, 09:14 PM
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sorry guys, calgary sports radio had said that even minnesota is not selling out lately. if i'm mistaken, then so be it. but there won't be a 2nd team coming regardless.

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11-21-2009, 11:49 PM
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sorry guys, calgary sports radio had said that even minnesota is not selling out lately. if i'm mistaken, then so be it. but there won't be a 2nd team coming regardless.
I'm sorry but they're mistaken. And we've already established that MN cannot support another team.

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11-22-2009, 11:11 AM
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sorry guys, calgary sports radio had said that even minnesota is not selling out lately. if i'm mistaken, then so be it. but there won't be a 2nd team coming regardless.
Would absolutely love to see the evidence that your sports radio has in regards to that. According to everything I have seen, they have sold every game out 100%. The only major difference this year from previous years is that we are not selling it out at over 105% like they were doing practically every beforehand. This is from the last two games:

PHX vs. MIN
Quote:
Arena: Xcel Energy Center
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Referees: Kelly Sutherland, Stephen Walkom
Linesmen: Darren Gibbs, Don Henderson
Attendance: 18,110 (100.3% full)
NYI vs MIN
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Arena: Xcel Energy Center
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Referees: Dennis LaRue, Tom Kowal
Linesmen: Darren Gibbs, Don Henderson
Attendance: 18,114 (100.3% full)
So yes the sellout streak is still alive. It has once again been established that Minnesota could not support another one. Granted the Twin Cities metro area is a large chunk of people, it wouldn't be nearly enough like Chicago has with the White Sox and Cubs. I would be happier with it in Milwaukee or even Winnipeg so we can at least have a geographically regional rivalry between another city/state instead of the closest team being like an eight hour drive. Its too expensive to go on the road with your team.

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11-22-2009, 11:22 AM
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I lived in Minneapolis for about a year and a half and Minnesota for a total of almost six years. Based on my opinion, the state currently cannot support two NHL teams.

The metropolitan Twin Cities area of Minneapolis - St. Paul - Bloomington has a total population of around three million. They are only one of a handful of cities in the entire continent to have the five major sports franchises (basketball, football, baseball, hockey and soccer). Not even Los Angeles has that... In some ways, the sports market is saturated. Nonetheless, the Twin Cities residents are fairly affluent for most city standards and the Germanic-Nordic roots of the people there really value sports (Minnesotans are some of the biggest people on earth, imo).

The true problem however is that hockey is huge in Minnesota but more at a high school and college level. I have literally met dozens of diehard hockey fans there who worship high school and Gophers hockey but have not an inkling of passion for the Wilds. For some reason, the professional level simply doesn't resonate with the Minnesotans there. For example, one of my former roommates was a great hockey player from this Northern Minnesotan town. Grew up playing hockey and was one of the best friends of Alex Goligoski growing up. He also played with 1st rounder, Patrick White... He knows the in's and out's of high school hockey and watches college hockey but has never been to a Wilds game...

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11-22-2009, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by BigT2002 View Post
Would absolutely love to see the evidence that your sports radio has in regards to that. According to everything I have seen, they have sold every game out 100%. The only major difference this year from previous years is that we are not selling it out at over 105% like they were doing practically every beforehand.
in a previous post, i was going on recollection of hearing the wild are not selling out, well, here is my evidence. and after listening to this, i stand by my claim from my previous post.

this interview is with rob kerr and hall of fame broadcaster and flames play by play announcer peter maher. peter maher is saying that the wild have been giving out tickets for free to recent games to fill the building. the nhl counts people in attendance, not tickets sold for some reason. so, the wild are not selling every ticket, yet they are giving some away in order to get a technical sellout. this is even more evidence that minnesota can't support 2 teams. it's dated to wednesday, november 18. go to 9:40 mark to hear the beginning of the wild talk.

http://www.fan960.com/ondemand/media...18_231622_5308

sidenote: i'm not here to troll or cause trouble. i'm here for good hockey talk with knowledgable hockey fans.

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11-23-2009, 12:01 PM
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I'm sorry but they're mistaken. And we've already established that MN cannot support another team.
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Originally Posted by BigT2002 View Post
Would absolutely love to see the evidence that your sports radio has in regards to that. According to everything I have seen, they have sold every game out 100%.
now that i have presented my evidence. i would love to see your evidence that disproves mine. you guys seem pretty knowledgable, but i won't give you a free pass on this. please do some homework and see if you can find my claim to be untrue.

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11-23-2009, 09:03 PM
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No chance. Only if you took away the University of Minnesota's team and forced all the Gopher fans to become season ticket holders and support this new NHL franchise. Okay, you'd have to take away St. Cloud State and Minnesota State's programs too. What I am getting at is there are just too many other hockey options out there from Div 1 and High School all the way down to minor hockey. For hockey parents every weekend is tournaments (many times out of town) and most weeknights is practices and games (often multiple children playing). Junior hockey (USHL) couldn't even survive here. One very healthy franchise is all we need. Give us another one and it becomes two average at best franchises.

Thats my two cents.
Agree with this 100% - hockey's popular but it goes beyond the NHL, which dooms any chance of a second team. There was something like another 16,000 people between Mariucci and the NHC Friday night at the same time as a sold-out Wild game.

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11-24-2009, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by MonctonGoldenFlames View Post
in a previous post, i was going on recollection of hearing the wild are not selling out, well, here is my evidence. and after listening to this, i stand by my claim from my previous post.

this interview is with rob kerr and hall of fame broadcaster and flames play by play announcer peter maher. peter maher is saying that the wild have been giving out tickets for free to recent games to fill the building. the nhl counts people in attendance, not tickets sold for some reason. so, the wild are not selling every ticket, yet they are giving some away in order to get a technical sellout. this is even more evidence that minnesota can't support 2 teams. it's dated to wednesday, november 18. go to 9:40 mark to hear the beginning of the wild talk.

http://www.fan960.com/ondemand/media...18_231622_5308

sidenote: i'm not here to troll or cause trouble. i'm here for good hockey talk with knowledgable hockey fans.
Well now that we are actually having a legit discussion about something and it isn't coming off as if you are trying to put not only our team down, but our fans as well. Now that this has been rectified for me, I have zero issue talking hockey.

This was posted on 27 Oct 2009 by HackandLube in the General Hockey Discussion. The link if from www.fromtherink.com:



Now, I also know that many people on this board do not trust ESPN for anything; however, they do have a little tool on their recap portion of every type of game that tells you the result of how many tickets were sold...NOT how many butts were in the seats as reported by the team. I've watched this like a freakin hawk ever since mid October because there were a few games that had me concerned, to include the Wild's Front Office. Prior to the Yotes game, one of our most trusted reporters did an article on how Leipold is trying to get the Winter Classic and the 2011 Draft in St. Paul. It also had a small portion about the sellout streak and he figured it was going to finally end against Phoenix. Checking the numbers from that game and the one against NYI, and we still have 100% sellout. However, once again...its by sheer tickets sold and not attendance. Whether or not the team bought them all up I have no idea. I can tell you this though. As a STH, I get asked probably 5-10 times a week for tickets because they can't find them or they don't want to pay the obscene overprice on places like Stubhub or TicketMaster. Not to mention, if that sucker broke I can very much assure you that:
1) It would have been in our newspapers as soon as the game was finished.
2) It would have been in the General Hockey Discussion as well because it would have meant that Vancouver had the longest sellout streak in the NHL.
3) It would of more than likely made ESPN because it is the 2nd or 3rd longest in all North American sports.

While listening to that broadcast, I'm sorry but just like any sports loyal radio, it doesn't exactly wow me in the shock factor that they are taking a minute to slam another division rival on something they pride themselves in. I can assure you that they are not just giving away tickets. They've had a few times during the season where if people brought in specific items (typically hockey equipment) they would give them a stab at some seats for a later game. Whether or not you account that as free is totally up to your opinion, but to mine and knowing how expensive hockey equipment is....that is a pretty fair trade.

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11-24-2009, 11:20 AM
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About hockey in minny, I heard , dunno if it's true, that college hockey is more popular than the wild in minnesota. Is it true?

Also you guys being a hockey city, why are there so few ppl on hf boards, i mean where do you fans show your interest for hockey...
(im not saying that the more ppl on hf boards a team has, the better the fans are) but do you have your own equivalent of hf boards...

I mean latendresse was acquiered by you guys, and in 2 page posts, 90% are from habs fans... if not more....

im just curious, not trying to sound like a troll, although it may sound a lil harsh.. but why so few ppl on hf boards ? (where do you guys talk hockey or you ''just'' enjoy the games... dunno how it is)

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11-24-2009, 01:18 PM
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About hockey in minny, I heard , dunno if it's true, that college hockey is more popular than the wild in minnesota. Is it true?
Well, here is what you have to remember with any fanbase....you like to win championships. The Gophers have done that pretty damn well and you can make the argument that the WCHA is probably the toughest conference in NCAA hockey. Just by looking at past championships and the amount of all star caliber talent that has left the conference to the NHL, even just winning the WCHA equates to the SEC fanboys winning their football championship. Also keep in mind, that while the team is almost a decade old, we went a huge stint without a professional hockey team. That too should be added to the equation because we had to find something else to watch during that hockey season with no team to cheer for. Also, we are a state that prides ourselves in homegrown talent. Many top talented players, to include Crosby, have played at the high school level in our state. So to us, our high school winning a state title is basically like winning the Stanley Cup.

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Also you guys being a hockey city, why are there so few ppl on hf boards, i mean where do you fans show your interest for hockey...
(im not saying that the more ppl on hf boards a team has, the better the fans are) but do you have your own equivalent of hf boards...
Our official Wild.com message board is probably the largest fanbase out of all the NHL teams bar none. Typically most Wild fans don't GAF about any other teams or news regarding them so they just stay on their own board where its a little more friendly and typically everyone is from Minnesota. That and my own personal opinion that they don't like to be judged by other teams fans....but thats just me.

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I mean latendresse was acquiered by you guys, and in 2 page posts, 90% are from habs fans... if not more....
Well...what do you expect? We don't exactly have a fanbase as large as the Red Wings or the Rangers so it takes a little bit more for it to grow outside of the states of Minnesota/North and South Dakota/Wisconsin/Iowa. And really Wisconsin and Iowa people tend to lean towards the Hawks moreso than the Wild because they are moving in a more forward direction and have been over the last couple years.

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im just curious, not trying to sound like a troll, although it may sound a lil harsh.. but why so few ppl on hf boards ? (where do you guys talk hockey or you ''just'' enjoy the games... dunno how it is)
Def. not coming off as a troll dude. A lot of us keep it very in house thats all. Go to the Wild.com board and you'll see where they are all at.

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