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Could Minnesota support 2 NHL teams?

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11-24-2009, 03:00 PM
  #26
MonctonGoldenFlames
 
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Originally Posted by BigT2002 View Post
Well now that we are actually having a legit discussion about something and it isn't coming off as if you are trying to put not only our team down, but our fans as well. Now that this has been rectified for me, I have zero issue talking hockey.

This was posted on 27 Oct 2009 by HackandLube in the General Hockey Discussion. The link if from www.fromtherink.com:



Now, I also know that many people on this board do not trust ESPN for anything; however, they do have a little tool on their recap portion of every type of game that tells you the result of how many tickets were sold...NOT how many butts were in the seats as reported by the team. I've watched this like a freakin hawk ever since mid October because there were a few games that had me concerned, to include the Wild's Front Office. Prior to the Yotes game, one of our most trusted reporters did an article on how Leipold is trying to get the Winter Classic and the 2011 Draft in St. Paul. It also had a small portion about the sellout streak and he figured it was going to finally end against Phoenix. Checking the numbers from that game and the one against NYI, and we still have 100% sellout. However, once again...its by sheer tickets sold and not attendance. Whether or not the team bought them all up I have no idea. I can tell you this though. As a STH, I get asked probably 5-10 times a week for tickets because they can't find them or they don't want to pay the obscene overprice on places like Stubhub or TicketMaster. Not to mention, if that sucker broke I can very much assure you that:
1) It would have been in our newspapers as soon as the game was finished.
2) It would have been in the General Hockey Discussion as well because it would have meant that Vancouver had the longest sellout streak in the NHL.
3) It would of more than likely made ESPN because it is the 2nd or 3rd longest in all North American sports.

While listening to that broadcast, I'm sorry but just like any sports loyal radio, it doesn't exactly wow me in the shock factor that they are taking a minute to slam another division rival on something they pride themselves in. I can assure you that they are not just giving away tickets. They've had a few times during the season where if people brought in specific items (typically hockey equipment) they would give them a stab at some seats for a later game. Whether or not you account that as free is totally up to your opinion, but to mine and knowing how expensive hockey equipment is....that is a pretty fair trade.
ok, neither one us can proove exactly what is going on as far as attendance. you believe espn, thats fine. i believe a hall of fame broadcaster, who has front office connections with your team. either way, the sellout streak in minnesota is as close to coming to an end as it ever has.

sidenote, to say that our radio was slamming your team is completely false. it was news brought up by peter maher. our station follows the nhl as well as the flames. they are pretty good at getting different takes from around the league. you got defensive, which leads me to believe you are worried about the subject. it is news right? you said yourself it's one of the longest streaks in north american pro sports, so it must be worth mentioning, right?

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11-24-2009, 03:37 PM
  #27
GopherState
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About hockey in minny, I heard , dunno if it's true, that college hockey is more popular than the wild in minnesota. Is it true?
I'll give this a shot, although BigT2002 did a great job too.

From my experience, I'd say that the Wild are more popular than any D-1 hockey team, but the sum of the college teams and WCHA creates a lot more hardcore college fans than NHL fans. Many people are fans of their college or HS team first and follow the Wild with a passive interest; mainly because they are "Minnesota's team." Maybe this will change if the Wild have another deep playoff run [everyone jumped on the bandwagon in 2003] or contend for the Stanley Cup, but it's pretty hard to compete with an institution when you are the youngest team in the NHL that hasn't accomplished anything.

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Also you guys being a hockey city, why are there so few ppl on hf boards, i mean where do you fans show your interest for hockey...
(im not saying that the more ppl on hf boards a team has, the better the fans are) but do you have your own equivalent of hf boards...
As I said before, there are plenty of options for a hockey fan in Minnesota to get their hockey fix since the market is unique amongst other NHL cities. While the official Wild boards do get a lot of traffic [along with one of the beat writer's blogs], there are plenty of people who would rather discuss their HS or college team [as various message boards show] and put the Wild on the back burner. I'll be honest, I'm one of them although it doesn't help that there are plenty of other NHL teams I'd rather watch and follow.

Another factor is something that BigT2002 touched on, namely that most fans couldn't give two ***** about what has happened around the league. While it's good to get a cross-section of hockey fans across North America and the world, I'm very busy these days and there are plenty of better places to discuss the hockey issues I'm interested in. There's not a big college or MN HS section on HF Boards [especially compared to a site like USCHO, which focuses solely on US college hockey] because that's more of a niche audience [especially compared to the amount of Canadians on the boards who follow major junior] and not one most fans outside of Minnesota, Colorado, Detroit and Boston would be interested in [with the exception of trying to follow prospects]. Hell, half of my posts on HF Boards are just trying to rebut misinformation about players and prospects people haven't seen.

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I mean latendresse was acquiered by you guys, and in 2 page posts, 90% are from habs fans... if not more....
Shouldn't be a big shocker given it's a trade between the team with the most threads and posts in their forum and the team with the least threads and posts. As far as my thoughts, Pouliot looked okay in the only game I saw him play this season [@ Washington] - he's essentially a player that needs to play top-six minutes but hasn't really gotten that opportunity due to better players and laziness. Don't know if he'll get that opportunity in Montreal, but it's probably for the best that Pouliot has a change of scenery. Well that or the Montreal media will eat him alive.

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im just curious, not trying to sound like a troll, although it may sound a lil harsh.. but why so few ppl on hf boards ? (where do you guys talk hockey or you ''just'' enjoy the games... dunno how it is)
I think in the end, a lot of this has to do with some combination of the market, keeping hockey local and the team itself. The Twin Cities and state of Minnesota are unique in that while there are other NHL markets that have college and major junior teams, the NHL teams have been prominent for longer [i.e. Toronto is a "Leafs town, not a hockey town" and the Bruins and Red Wings are both Original Six franchises that have existed for decades despite having a number of nearby college teams]. In the case of Minnesota, both college and HS hockey had been around for decades before the North Stars arrived in 1967, and remain ingrained in the fabric of the state despite thirty-odd years of having a professional team at the highest level.

Along with the Twin Cities being a unique market of hockey fans, not NHL fans, there is a prominent idea in Minnesota to keep hockey local. To be honest, I didn't realize how much this was the case until I moved away for work and law school, but going back to the 1950s with John Mariucci the idea has been to challenge high school coaches across the state to develop better hockey players by only taking Minnesota-born players at the U. While Minnesota doesn't completely adhere to this policy anymore [although I believe they are all-Minnesotan at the moment], it's become a source of pride for Gopher fans and has been a huge boost for NHL players coming out of the state. In addition to the college game, this is followed on all levels - kids grow up dreaming to play for their HS and win the State Championship and stay "in-house" [i.e. rejecting the US Development program or USHL and not traveling for tourneys] and most Minnesota-born NHLers are cheered upon by both Wild and hockey fans due to making it to the highest level.

Finally, I believe the biggest reason for there being few Wild fans on HF Boards is the team itself. There was a seven-year period with no NHL team and plenty of hockey fans [especially older ones] don't have the same connection to the Wild that they did for the North Stars despite selling out every game of their existence. There's also no history or real rivalries due to isolation [could care less about of the three Western Canadian teams or Colorado - each has a better rival or two and there's something like six teams who are closer to St. Paul than Denver], being moved out of the old Norris Division [losing a good one with the Black Hawks] and not being in the same division as the previous Minnesota team [yes, Dallas has the former North Stars but at this point it is more between Norm Green than the team itself], which leads to there being no reason for smack talk against the other 29 teams when there are plenty of great WCHA or HS rivalries. Plus throw in the fact that Minnesota hockey is its own little bubble that has enough hockey to discuss between themselves and you can begin to see why hockey is very popular in the state, but the NHL is not.

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11-24-2009, 03:43 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by MonctonGoldenFlames View Post
ok, neither one us can proove exactly what is going on as far as attendance. you believe espn, thats fine. i believe a hall of fame broadcaster, who has front office connections with your team. either way, the sellout streak in minnesota is as close to coming to an end as it ever has.

sidenote, to say that our radio was slamming your team is completely false. it was news brought up by peter maher. our station follows the nhl as well as the flames. they are pretty good at getting different takes from around the league. you got defensive, which leads me to believe you are worried about the subject. it is news right? you said yourself it's one of the longest streaks in north american pro sports, so it must be worth mentioning, right?
See I would have said "Agree to disagree" but you still come off as slandering me because I have at least documented proof of what I'm backing up. You're going off of "hear say" from yes a hall of fame person, but he isn't the only one with connections inside our organization.

But yes I am worried about it because it is the one thing we have over every other NHL team. To lose it means we fall back to the expansion era teams. I like being on top with something.

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11-24-2009, 03:46 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by GopherState View Post
I'll give this a shot, although BigT2002 did a great job too.

From my experience, I'd say that the Wild are more popular than any D-1 hockey team, but the sum of the college teams and WCHA creates a lot more hardcore college fans than NHL fans. Many people are fans of their college or HS team first and follow the Wild with a passive interest; mainly because they are "Minnesota's team." Maybe this will change if the Wild have another deep playoff run [everyone jumped on the bandwagon in 2003] or contend for the Stanley Cup, but it's pretty hard to compete with an institution when you are the youngest team in the NHL that hasn't accomplished anything.


As I said before, there are plenty of options for a hockey fan in Minnesota to get their hockey fix since the market is unique amongst other NHL cities. While the official Wild boards do get a lot of traffic [along with one of the beat writer's blogs], there are plenty of people who would rather discuss their HS or college team [as various message boards show] and put the Wild on the back burner. I'll be honest, I'm one of them although it doesn't help that there are plenty of other NHL teams I'd rather watch and follow.

Another factor is something that BigT2002 touched on, namely that most fans couldn't give two ***** about what has happened around the league. While it's good to get a cross-section of hockey fans across North America and the world, I'm very busy these days and there are plenty of better places to discuss the hockey issues I'm interested in. There's not a big college or MN HS section on HF Boards [especially compared to a site like USCHO, which focuses solely on US college hockey] because that's more of a niche audience [especially compared to the amount of Canadians on the boards who follow major junior] and not one most fans outside of Minnesota, Colorado, Detroit and Boston would be interested in [with the exception of trying to follow prospects]. Hell, half of my posts on HF Boards are just trying to rebut misinformation about players and prospects people haven't seen.


Shouldn't be a big shocker given it's a trade between the team with the most threads and posts in their forum and the team with the least threads and posts. As far as my thoughts, Pouliot looked okay in the only game I saw him play this season [@ Washington] - he's essentially a player that needs to play top-six minutes but hasn't really gotten that opportunity due to better players and laziness. Don't know if he'll get that opportunity in Montreal, but it's probably for the best that Pouliot has a change of scenery. Well that or the Montreal media will eat him alive.


I think in the end, a lot of this has to do with some combination of the market, keeping hockey local and the team itself. The Twin Cities and state of Minnesota are unique in that while there are other NHL markets that have college and major junior teams, the NHL teams have been prominent for longer [i.e. Toronto is a "Leafs town, not a hockey town" and the Bruins and Red Wings are both Original Six franchises that have existed for decades despite having a number of nearby college teams]. In the case of Minnesota, both college and HS hockey had been around for decades before the North Stars arrived in 1967, and remain ingrained in the fabric of the state despite thirty-odd years of having a professional team at the highest level.

Along with the Twin Cities being a unique market of hockey fans, not NHL fans, there is a prominent idea in Minnesota to keep hockey local. To be honest, I didn't realize how much this was the case until I moved away for work and law school, but going back to the 1950s with John Mariucci the idea has been to challenge high school coaches across the state to develop better hockey players by only taking Minnesota-born players at the U. While Minnesota doesn't completely adhere to this policy anymore [although I believe they are all-Minnesotan at the moment], it's become a source of pride for Gopher fans and has been a huge boost for NHL players coming out of the state. In addition to the college game, this is followed on all levels - kids grow up dreaming to play for their HS and win the State Championship and stay "in-house" [i.e. rejecting the US Development program or USHL and not traveling for tourneys] and most Minnesota-born NHLers are cheered upon by both Wild and hockey fans due to making it to the highest level.

Finally, I believe the biggest reason for there being few Wild fans on HF Boards is the team itself. There was a seven-year period with no NHL team and plenty of hockey fans [especially older ones] don't have the same connection to the Wild that they did for the North Stars despite selling out every game of their existence. There's also no history or real rivalries due to isolation [could care less about of the three Western Canadian teams or Colorado - each has a better rival or two and there's something like six teams who are closer to St. Paul than Denver], being moved out of the old Norris Division [losing a good one with the Black Hawks] and not being in the same division as the previous Minnesota team [yes, Dallas has the former North Stars but at this point it is more between Norm Green than the team itself], which leads to there being no reason for smack talk against the other 29 teams when there are plenty of great WCHA or HS rivalries. Plus throw in the fact that Minnesota hockey is its own little bubble that has enough hockey to discuss between themselves and you can begin to see why hockey is very popular in the state, but the NHL is not.
I def. applaud this post.

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11-24-2009, 04:25 PM
  #30
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I def. applaud this post.
Thanks. The question seems to come up enough where I figured someone needed to answer it once and for all.

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11-24-2009, 04:35 PM
  #31
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Thanks. The question seems to come up enough where I figured someone needed to answer it once and for all.
To me, its just like football in Florida. Yes, there are pro teams who have been successful as hell...but college is God there. We are the same way with hockey. Will always be that way.

The reasons for HF not having a ton of Wild following is simply because of that. That and I never understood how one message board could determine the loyalty and dedication of a fanbase

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11-24-2009, 06:02 PM
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thanks for you answers you 2, you have enlighten me quite a bit on hockey in minny (which i know little about heh)

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11-24-2009, 06:21 PM
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Just FYI, the team has given away free tickets to recent games. But I don't think it's to make a sellout, as the radio guy apparently claimed. It's a twitter contest. One pair (I think) to whoever answers a trivia question first. I believe they may use the tickets that the opposing team gives back. That's where a lot of those extra tickets come from, if I recall.

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11-24-2009, 06:23 PM
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Wild.com boards were more popular from the start. I used to read there back when I had time. I believe a lot of folks didn't like hfboards because of the stricter moderation. Those wild fans like their flame wars... or used to.

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11-24-2009, 06:28 PM
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There's also no history or real rivalries due to isolation [could care less about of the three Western Canadian teams or Colorado - each has a better rival or two and there's something like six teams who are closer to St. Paul than Denver], being moved out of the old Norris Division [losing a good one with the Black Hawks] and not being in the same division as the previous Minnesota team [yes, Dallas has the former North Stars but at this point it is more between Norm Green than the team itself], which leads to there being no reason for smack talk against the other 29 teams when there are plenty of great WCHA or HS rivalries. Plus throw in the fact that Minnesota hockey is its own little bubble that has enough hockey to discuss between themselves and you can begin to see why hockey is very popular in the state, but the NHL is not.
Nice post all around. Just wanted to comment on the division. Wouldn't realignment be fantastic? I used to spend hours trying to think up ways to get a bunch of the 80s Norris teams back together. I think it would be easy to restore the rivalry with CHI. STL could turn into a good one, too, based on some of our previous games. I like watching the Oilers, but that's more of a childhood fondness than anything else.

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11-24-2009, 09:28 PM
  #36
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Wild.com boards were more popular from the start. I used to read there back when I had time. I believe a lot of folks didn't like hfboards because of the stricter moderation. Those wild fans like their flame wars... or used to.
I stopped posting after they changed the message board layout to flow with the rest of the NHL boards. My username was already taken and I never got the email what it was. So screw it.

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Nice post all around. Just wanted to comment on the division. Wouldn't realignment be fantastic? I used to spend hours trying to think up ways to get a bunch of the 80s Norris teams back together. I think it would be easy to restore the rivalry with CHI. STL could turn into a good one, too, based on some of our previous games. I like watching the Oilers, but that's more of a childhood fondness than anything else.
They need to put Dallas in our division and put Vancouver in the Pacific. There is no excuse why two Central Standard Time teams are playing in Pacific Standard Time when there is a team that could play in it. Stupid and was used to appease Canadian fans I believe since they would be the only Canada team in the Pacific Division.

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11-24-2009, 11:52 PM
  #37
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See I would have said "Agree to disagree" but you still come off as slandering me because I have at least documented proof of what I'm backing up. You're going off of "hear say" from yes a hall of fame person, but he isn't the only one with connections inside our organization.

But yes I am worried about it because it is the one thing we have over every other NHL team. To lose it means we fall back to the expansion era teams. I like being on top with something.
in no way was i slandering you and i never said peter maher was the only guy with connections to the wild front office, so don't put words in my mouth. i know and trust my source, and i can't believe he would report something that wasn't true, plain and simple.

you clearly understood that we have different opinions, so to keep you content and use terms you prefer...it is your forum afterall, shall we just agree to disagree?

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