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Give Brule more minutes? Lines when we're healthy?

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Old
11-17-2009, 08:55 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
I admit to have had a major bias pro Schremp. That said that went out the window once he left the organization and to be quite frank, it was a relief. I am now looking at being much more objective with every player. You on the other hand can't be objective about Quinn, Penner, Brule, and Torres. I had that hang up with a single player, you sir are doing this far too often of late. The team isn't winning and the Oiler that you hate most is playing the best. You don't need to be right on everything, just enjoy Penner's play and hope that Brule, Gagner, Cogliano, etc. can grow as players this season while guys like Horcoff and especially Moreau can do SOMETHING positive out there.

As for the AHL, you don't need to score a ton to be an effective player. Brule showed me elite skill (at that level) at times and that led me to believe that he could make the next step. He also IMO didn't look out of place last year with the big club. IMO he's better this year because he isn't trying to hit really big guys when they are prepared and he is being better in terms of passing the puck.
I agree with most of what you said but this here is the key. Brule is now playing a very controled game. He is no longer taking himself out of position to make the big hits nor is he running around wasting his speed anymore. Brule as a result is playing exceptional hockey without the puck and is doing a very good job of supporting his teammates. He as you said as well is doing a much better job of utilizing his teammates and isnt trying to do too much on his own. He still has some stuff to work on like using his shot more and not rushing plays in the offensive zone, but I believe he has really turned the corner and will be an impact player at both ends of the ice in a couple of years.

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11-17-2009, 09:15 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
I admit to have had a major bias pro Schremp. That said that went out the window once he left the organization and to be quite frank, it was a relief. I am now looking at being much more objective with every player.
Not only Schremp Bryan but JFJ, Stone, other AHL players I can't even remember.

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You on the other hand can't be objective about Quinn,
I've been quite objective about Quinn for two months now. Maybe you didn't notice.

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Penner
Again its going to take more than 20 games to get over feeling about how a player getting paid 4.25M/ season dogs it for two years. Or a player that basically went in the sulk tank to get a coach fired. I don't have respect for that kind of action. Thats going to be the hardest thing to get over.

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Brule,
Not bias here, just waiting for results. ftr Brule has 3pts in his last 11games. I've pointed out he's looked good in the last couple but theres been some dog games in there for him already.

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and Torres. I had that hang up with a single player, you sir are doing this far too often of late.
Smyth and Torres. Shoot me.

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The team isn't winning and the Oiler that you hate most is playing the best. You don't need to be right on everything, just enjoy Penner's play and hope that Brule, Gagner, Cogliano, etc. can grow as players this season while guys like Horcoff and especially Moreau can do SOMETHING positive out there.
Gagners always been one of my favorite players here.

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As for the AHL, you don't need to score a ton to be an effective player. Brule showed me elite skill (at that level) at times and that led me to believe that he could make the next step. He also IMO didn't look out of place last year with the big club.
Brule was no different last year than Pouliot, a player who you would ****can in an instant.
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IMO he's better this year because he isn't trying to hit really big guys when they are prepared and he is being better in terms of passing the puck.
My foray in the thread was originally about Sully being a better playmaker and player and who should be in top 6 and not Brule.

Sully is a far better NHL player and its not even close.

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11-17-2009, 09:20 AM
  #103
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Give Brule more mins? sureee..

Lines when\IF we are healthy:

Penner-Cogliano-Hemsky (Penner taking faceoffs)
Brule-Gagner-O'Sullivan
Moreau-Horcoff-Stone <- tough mins
Jacques-Comrie-Stortini
Potulny, Reddox

Nilsson - waive
Pisani- retire

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11-17-2009, 09:28 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenzOil View Post
Give Brule more mins? sureee..

Lines when\IF we are healthy:

Penner-Cogliano-Hemsky (Penner taking faceoffs)
Brule-Gagner-O'Sullivan
Moreau-Horcoff-Stone <- tough mins
Jacques-Comrie-Stortini
Potulny, Reddox

Nilsson - waive
Pisani- retire
Id like to see Brule with Gagner and O'sullivan. However I don't like Cogs on the first line with the way he has been playing so far this year. I would somehow really like to upgrade the Number 1 centre position and have horc on the third line as you have him. Maybe Gilbert/Grebs, Cogs and 2nd round pick for an impact center if ones availible. If Capspace is an issue, throw Nilison in to even it out.

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11-17-2009, 09:38 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
Id like to see Brule with Gagner and O'sullivan. However I don't like Cogs on the first line with the way he has been playing so far this year. I would somehow really like to upgrade the Number 1 centre position and have horc on the third line as you have him. Maybe Gilbert/Grebs, Cogs and 2nd round pick for an impact center if ones availible. If Capspace is an issue, throw Nilison in to even it out.
I like the Brule Gagner O'Sullivan idea too. Comrie is just not cutting it on that 2nd line. All too often O'Sullivan is left to play all by himself because Comrie and Gagner just can't keep up. I can tolerate Gagner ok, he does things that can make up for his lack of speed, but you have to get this second line some chance to be successful. I don't like what Quinn has done with it so far. I know most people are down on O'Sullivan because he hasn't hit the back of the net yet, but I really believe he'd play a lot more relaxed out there if he was getting some support from his linemates. So far, he's the only guy on that line driving to the net, sure he shoots the puck a ton, but there's never anyone else there to maybe capitalize on the opportunities he creates either. I think the key to getting the Oilers out of their losing ways is to get that second line productive, and to do that Quinn HAS to change up the personnel. Comrie is the weak link there as far as I'm concerned.

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11-17-2009, 09:52 AM
  #106
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The only place Brule is a top six player is in the magical fantasy land of HF where youth, "potential" and intangibles count on the scoreboard.

He's a bit better than I thought he'd be, but he's not very good. Certainly not worth this amount of discussion.

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11-17-2009, 10:44 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
Id like to see Brule with Gagner and O'sullivan. However I don't like Cogs on the first line with the way he has been playing so far this year. I would somehow really like to upgrade the Number 1 centre position and have horc on the third line as you have him. Maybe Gilbert/Grebs, Cogs and 2nd round pick for an impact center if ones availible. If Capspace is an issue, throw Nilison in to even it out.
and how exactly is that? Cogliano has been one of our best forwards lately.. He is not Penner good but definately better then Brule.. The guy is best suited as a center but sux at faceoffs.. With Penner taking faceoffs this line could go long ways.

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11-17-2009, 11:00 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Little Fury View Post
The only place Brule is a top six player is in the magical fantasy land of HF where youth, "potential" and intangibles count on the scoreboard.

He's a bit better than I thought he'd be, but he's not very good. Certainly not worth this amount of discussion.
How about being tied for 2nd in goals on the team and (points wise) being the 4th best forward ?

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11-17-2009, 11:10 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by PenzOil View Post
How about being tied for 2nd in goals on the team and (points wise) being the 4th best forward ?
Agreed. We also have to remember that Brule is only 22.

He looks on the verge of breaking out to me and this is a kid that was drafted 6th overall. It's not like his talent is a surprise.

I think we may just be touching the surface here.

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11-17-2009, 11:15 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Not only Schremp Bryan but JFJ, Stone, other AHL players I can't even remember.

JFJ and Stone looked pretty damn good to me this season

I've been quite objective about Quinn for two months now. Maybe you didn't notice.

While taking stabs at them by declaring teh previous coaching to not have been a problem?

Again its going to take more than 20 games to get over feeling about how a player getting paid 4.25M/ season dogs it for two years. Or a player that basically went in the sulk tank to get a coach fired. I don't have respect for that kind of action. Thats going to be the hardest thing to get over.

You hated him from the moment he got here, I could care less what happened in the past as long as he's here to play now, MacT dicked him around and ripped into him publicly, not too many people would want to bust their butts for a clown like that.

Not bias here, just waiting for results. ftr Brule has 3pts in his last 11games. I've pointed out he's looked good in the last couple but theres been some dog games in there for him already.

Flu? Besides it's not as if when he's "bad" that he's any worse than the "NHLers". Face it Brule, Jacques, and Stone are all NHL players no matter how you and a few others want to slice it. You were wrong in this regard.

Smyth and Torres. Shoot me.

Especially Torres, you elevate this guy to HOF status. You want to talk about AHL production? How was he with the Roadrunners and in Bridgeport? Better yet has he learned how to pass yet?

Gagners always been one of my favorite players here.

IMO there are games that Brule looks like the more dangerous player out there and maybe even the more talented player this year.

Brule was no different last year than Pouliot, a player who you would ****can in an instant.
My foray in the thread was originally about Sully being a better playmaker and player and who should be in top 6 and not Brule.

Maybe because of my Schremp bias and I saw them as competitors? I said that I saw Brule as an NHL talent as do I see Pouliot. It's a shame that he's been hurt or he could've helped down the middle, you know his natural position which our former coach wouldn't play him in?

Sully is a far better NHL player and its not even close.

He's also older and not burying his chances, I thought that he could be a 30 goal guy for us this year, to do so he needs to work on that as well as not always look to shoot, shooting isn't always the best choice to make.
Answers are above in bold

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11-17-2009, 11:16 AM
  #111
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Agreed. We also have to remember that Brule is only 22.

He looks on the verge of breaking out to me and this is a kid that was drafted 6th overall. It's not like his talent is a surprise.

I think we may just be touching the surface here.
Agreed, he looks like he's nearly ready to live up to his lofty draft status. What a coup it would be for us to have him do that and just for Torres to boot.

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11-17-2009, 09:16 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
While taking stabs at them by declaring teh previous coaching to not have been a problem?Answers are above in bold
How the hell am I taking stabs at the present coaching staff by indicating the past ones weren't the problem?

I don't follow that logic at all.

Hint: I'm saying the lineup is the problem and exactly what I've been saying all along.

Thats not taking a jab at coaching but again at the lineup.

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11-17-2009, 09:19 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by PenzOil View Post
How about being tied for 2nd in goals on the team and (points wise) being the 4th best forward ?
He's 5th in points and almost all of it accomplished in the first 7games.

Wheres the indication he's maintaining anything like that?

Again he has 3 pts in his last 11 games.

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11-17-2009, 09:28 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
He's 5th in points and almost all of it accomplished in the first 7games.

Wheres the indication he's maintaining anything like that?

Again he has 3 pts in his last 11 games.
When in the season he got his points doesn't change the fact he is 5th in points on the team. A large majority of players in this league does not get points every game. A large majority of players go through portions of the season where they get less points than other parts.

Smyth only has 4 points in his last 7 games. Does that discount his season as well?

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11-17-2009, 09:37 PM
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When in the season he got his points doesn't change the fact he is 5th in points on the team. A large majority of players in this league does not get points every game. A large majority of players go through portions of the season where they get less points than other parts.

Smyth only has 4 points in his last 7 games. Does that discount his season as well?
3 in 11 is a 22 point pace.

4 in 7 is a 46 point pace.

Do I get to vote?

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11-17-2009, 09:38 PM
  #116
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Iginla had a string of 8 games with 4 points.
Morrow had a string of 10 games with 3 points.
Doan had a string of 10 games with 4 points.
Stastny had a sting of 9 games with 4 points.
Torres had a string of 10 games with 4 points.
Jokinen had a string of 9 games with 3 points.
Gagner has a string of 10 games with 1 point.
Toews had a string of 8 games with 3 points.

I can go on. These are all quality players and the majority of them have a stat line that are little different from the one you are constantly flaunting as if Brule were the only player that goes through point droughts.

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11-17-2009, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
3 in 11 is a 22 point pace.

4 in 7 is a 46 point pace.

Do I get to vote?
Way to miss the point.

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11-17-2009, 09:39 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Datsun View Post
When in the season he got his points doesn't change the fact he is 5th in points on the team. A large majority of players in this league does not get points every game. A large majority of players go through portions of the season where they get less points than other parts.

Smyth only has 4 points in his last 7 games. Does that discount his season as well?
It was convenient for you to defend Brule using "current" results and production before but when thats no longer current and 11 games removed you change the goalposts.

Heres something interesting.

Brule got 3pts in 11 games with the Oilers last year.

In his last 11 games played this year he has an identical 3 pts.

Maybe there really hasn't been that much change and the 7game hotstreak was not at all representative of where the player is at.

As far as the Smyth segment above I tend to look at slightly larger sets say 10 or 20 game sets to trend but 4pts in 7 games possibly means something. Its at least a momentary cooling off. But with established players you know what their valleys will look like. With Brule that isn't the case and production could virtually dry up like it has before.

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11-17-2009, 09:43 PM
  #119
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It was convenient for you to defend Brule using "current" results and production before but when thats no longer current and 11 games removed you change the goalposts.

How convenient that you are doing the same. Those first seven games do not count! I just listed players around the league (taking about 2 minutes of my time) that have the same valleys has you have listed. It doesn't seem like you've paid enough attention to Brule, because as most people have said all year they were pleased with his play. Only after this topic sprouted up has it seemed like you paid attention. He played very well at the start, then the flu slowed him down and now he's getting his legs back.

If in 30 games, he has 12 points, you know, I will acknowledge that. But at this point, there is no reason to assume that if he gets his leg back that the points wont come again.

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11-17-2009, 09:47 PM
  #120
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How convenient that you are doing the same. Those first seven games do not count!
Its not whether they count or not of course but whether they are truly representative of where the player is at.

Are they?

If you think so feel free to prognosticate this soon being a ppg player.

I certainly don't see anything close to that.

All I'm trying to do here is trend where the player is really at. i.e. what level of production can we reasonably expect going forward.

I certainly don't see Brule being more prepared for top 6 than Sully.

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11-17-2009, 09:50 PM
  #121
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Right on.

The Datsun vs Replacement deathmatch continues

(No, really, it is entertaining)

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11-17-2009, 09:52 PM
  #122
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Iginla had a string of 8 games with 4 points.
Morrow had a string of 10 games with 3 points.
Doan had a string of 10 games with 4 points.
Stastny had a sting of 9 games with 4 points.
Torres had a string of 10 games with 4 points.
Jokinen had a string of 9 games with 3 points.
Gagner has a string of 10 games with 1 point.
Toews had a string of 8 games with 3 points.

I can go on. These are all quality players and the majority of them have a stat line that are little different from the one you are constantly flaunting as if Brule were the only player that goes through point droughts.
All of the players above are bonafide established players and we know that despite peaks and valleys the likelihood is there that the players have found some nature of NHL scoring niche and that they will continue to produce here at some level.

This isn't the case for brule. He's still a bubble NHL player. 7 good games out of 170 doesn't change that.

He's still very much an unknown quantity at this level. His production could entirely shrivel up at this point. AS it has before. Such is sometimes the case with players still at the "project" or "prospect" stage.

A prospect does not offer any certainty at the NHL level. A known NHL player is at least a known. You have a good idea what you have.

Brule was AHL when we got him, he only made this squad as easily as he did because we're so weak at forward to begin with.


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11-17-2009, 09:57 PM
  #123
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Its not whether they count or not of course but whether they are truly representative of where the player is at.

Are they?

If you think so feel free to prognosticate this soon being a ppg player.

I certainly don't see anything close to that.

All I'm trying to do here is trend where the player is really at. i.e. what level of production can we reasonably expect going forward.

I certainly don't see Brule being more prepared for top 6 than Sully.
Is this what you are arguing against Brule for...just to promote Sully getting more icetime? I have nothing against Sully. I like him in fact.

I do not think Brule is a PPG player though. Good lord no. I've already said that I think at this point he can be a 20-20 guy, and since he has 10 points even strength he has demonstrated he is effective at putting up points without depending on the PP.

Players who show the ability to put up even strength points in little ice time I feel should be given the chance for more ice-time to see if that trend continues. If they do, and it doesn't work...fine. Try someone else. O'Sullivan and Brule have both shown an ability to put up respectable EV strength points this season so both should be given the chance to get more EV time at some point of the season.

I do think that Brule is capable of putting up points in bunches, as many players who sit in the 35-60 point range do. He has his legs back, and I think Quinn noticed because Brule got about 20 minutes of icetime last game.

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11-17-2009, 09:58 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
This isn't the case for brule. He's still a bubble NHL player. 7 good games out of 170 doesn't change that.

He's still very much an unknown quantity at this level. His production could entirely shrivel up at this point. Such is sometimes the case with players still at the "project" or "prospect" stage.

A prospect does not offer any certainty at the NHL level. A known NHL player is at least a known.

Brule was AHL when we got him, he only made this squad as easily as he did because we're so weak at forward to begin with.
Sounds like when we got Torres.

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11-17-2009, 09:59 PM
  #125
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Right on.

The Datsun vs Replacement deathmatch continues

(No, really, it is entertaining)
Well, it is a honest debate. No real hate.


YET.

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