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Do the Oilers lack size / have too many talent smurfs?

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Old
11-14-2009, 05:16 PM
  #1
HockeyNoob4u
 
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Do the Oilers lack size / have too many talent smurfs?

Both the Edmonton Oilers and the Montreal Canadiens are widely regarded as having small rosters. During the recent PPV game vs. the Ottawa Senators, Oilers associate coach, Tom Renney, was asked if the Oilers could survive in the Western Conference with its small hockey team. Renney shrugged off the question with a smile.

In terms of player size, how do the Oilers compare to our despised brethren from the south (Calgary Flames)?

Here's a look: Oilers vs. Flames - line by line look at player weight!

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11-14-2009, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyNoob4u View Post

In terms of player size, how do the Oilers compare to our despised brethren from the south (Calgary Flames)?
Oh thanks, I never would have guessed.

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11-14-2009, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyNoob4u View Post
Both the Edmonton Oilers and the Montreal Canadiens are widely regarded as having small rosters. During the recent PPV game vs. the Ottawa Senators, Oilers associate coach, Tom Renney, was asked if the Oilers could survive in the Western Conference with its small hockey team. Renney shrugged off the question with a smile.

In terms of player size, how do the Oilers compare to our despised brethren from the south (Calgary Flames)?

Here's a look: Oilers vs. Flames - line by line look at player weight!

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Old
11-14-2009, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Discipline View Post
Oh thanks, I never would have guessed.

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11-14-2009, 05:53 PM
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Guys like Gagner, O'Sullivan are about 1 inch shorter than Dan Cleary. Cogliano is close as well. I'm taking these from NHL.com.

If our guys had the strength and smarts of a Dan Cleary, they would be so much more productive. Cleary is hard to knock off the puck. he seems like he has a good center of gravity.

For some reason, most of our guys are not even close to Cleary in terms of keeping the puck. Not all small guys are as soft as the ones on the Oilers roster.

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11-14-2009, 05:54 PM
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and here we go

yet again

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Old
11-14-2009, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyGM82 View Post
Guys like Gagner, O'Sullivan are about 1 inch shorter than Dan Cleary. Cogliano is close as well. I'm taking these from NHL.com.

If our guys had the strength and smarts of a Dan Cleary, they would be so much more productive. Cleary is hard to knock off the puck. he seems like he has a good center of gravity.

For some reason, most of our guys are not even close to Cleary in terms of keeping the puck. Not all small guys are as soft as the ones on the Oilers roster.
Well to be fair, Dan Cleary's listed at 6'0" / 205lbs. It seems like the players who're south of 200 lbs often have trouble being strong on the puck--though there are several exceptions.

Of the smaller players on the Oilers roster, Gilbert Brule's improved quite a bit from my perspective. During the preseason, he was getting knocked on his a$$ every time he stepped on the ice which I haven noticed much lately.

I am not quite sure why but Brule's not getting very much ice time from Quinn.

Unrelated but what is this VCASH and what can you do with it? I don't imagine that I can buy an Oilers jersey at a game and tell them to put it on my HF Board account, lol

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11-14-2009, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyNoob4u View Post
Well to be fair, Dan Cleary's listed at 6'0" / 205lbs. It seems like the players who're south of 200 lbs often have trouble being strong on the puck--though there are several exceptions.

Of the smaller players on the Oilers roster, Gilbert Brule's improved quite a bit from my perspective. During the preseason, he was getting knocked on his a$$ every time he stepped on the ice which I haven noticed much lately.

I am not quite sure why but Brule's not getting very much ice time from Quinn.

Unrelated but what is this VCASH and what can you do with it? I don't imagine that I can buy an Oilers jersey at a game and tell them to put it on my HF Board account, lol
vCash is used to bet on games in this thread: http://hfboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=171

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Old
11-14-2009, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Gagster View Post
vCash is used to bet on games in this thread: http://hfboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=171

Awesome, I've been on this site forever and I never noticed that.

thanks! I can't wait to play!

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11-14-2009, 07:29 PM
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I don't think the fact the Oilers have too many talented smurfs is really the problem, I think the problem is with the position those talented smurfs play. Your centerman is traditionally the guy who is supposed to bring the puck up ice, create plays, and defensively, he's supposed to disrupt plays before they get to his side of the ice.

Quinn has this whole thing about having one "crusty" guy on each line, but those crusty guys that he loves so much are playing on the wing [when they're playing it all] and not really where the Oil need crust. [Of course they need it from every player, but I'm talking about the primary need].

The Oilers need size at center - and not just size, but players who can skate and at least make a receivable pass. I think the talented smurfs in the line-up would be just fine on the wing, but as is, we're kind of expecting them to be able to battle through each and every game while almost always being out muscled and under-sized at that position.

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11-14-2009, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGM82 View Post
Guys like Gagner, O'Sullivan are about 1 inch shorter than Dan Cleary. Cogliano is close as well. I'm taking these from NHL.com.

If our guys had the strength and smarts of a Dan Cleary, they would be so much more productive. Cleary is hard to knock off the puck. he seems like he has a good center of gravity.

For some reason, most of our guys are not even close to Cleary in terms of keeping the puck. Not all small guys are as soft as the ones on the Oilers roster.
So you've only been here a week, maybe you did not see the hate for Cleary when he was here. The guy was put into the exact role he is suited for on the Wings. As an Oiler he was almost a waste of skin. I did not mind Cleary when he was here but he has certainly moved on. Never misses a chance to take a jab at the Oiler organization. So **** him...

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11-14-2009, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Meanashell11 View Post
So you've only been here a week, maybe you did not see the hate for Cleary when he was here. The guy was put into the exact role he is suited for on the Wings. As an Oiler he was almost a waste of skin. I did not mind Cleary when he was here but he has certainly moved on. Never misses a chance to take a jab at the Oiler organization. So **** him...
Cleary credits the Oilers coaching for teaching him how to play the game and be an effective NHLer. Chimera might be the ***** you are thinking of, he hates the Oilers.

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11-14-2009, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Cleary credits the Oilers coaching for teaching him how to play the game and be an effective NHLer. Chimera might be the ***** you are thinking of, he hates the Oilers.
Yes it's Chimera. Chimera always takes pot shots at the Oilers whereas Cleary credits the Oilers for his improved play.

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Old
11-14-2009, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MePutPuckInNet View Post
I don't think the fact the Oilers have too many talented smurfs is really the problem, I think the problem is with the position those talented smurfs play. Your centerman is traditionally the guy who is supposed to bring the puck up ice, create plays, and defensively, he's supposed to disrupt plays before they get to his side of the ice.

Quinn has this whole thing about having one "crusty" guy on each line, but those crusty guys that he loves so much are playing on the wing [when they're playing it all] and not really where the Oil need crust. [Of course they need it from every player, but I'm talking about the primary need].

The Oilers need size at center - and not just size, but players who can skate and at least make a receivable pass. I think the talented smurfs in the line-up would be just fine on the wing, but as is, we're kind of expecting them to be able to battle through each and every game while almost always being out muscled and under-sized at that position.
Well, from looking at this issue, it's probably not so much that the Oilers are a small team, but the bigger problem is that they're not really a physical team.

Some of the Oilers relatively larger forward players like Penner, Horcoff, and even Moreau don't really play very physical. Moreau takes plenty of offensive zone penalties, but he's way down on the Oilers in terms of hits.

Really, the only "crusty" forward players on the team are Stortini, Stone, Jacques, and Brule. Well, Stone and Jacques have both been out with injuries and Stortini plays limited 4rth line minutes. As for Brule, he's physical but not so much since he's small. Also, Stone and Jacques are physical, but they're not top six caliber players.

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11-14-2009, 10:54 PM
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Not trying to be rude but, DUH ! Kidding, in fact we have too many semi-talented smurfs.

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11-15-2009, 11:21 AM
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Not trying to be rude but, DUH ! Kidding, in fact we have too many semi-talented smurfs.
Or as Pat Quinn calls them, we have too many morning glories!

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11-15-2009, 09:07 PM
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what do you guys think about trading for Fabian Brunnström, rumor has it he's on the trading block and at 6'2" 203lbs, would give us a little size... now the trick would be to find a trade which would work...

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11-15-2009, 09:50 PM
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what do you guys think about trading for Fabian Brunnström, rumor has it he's on the trading block and at 6'2" 203lbs, would give us a little size... now the trick would be to find a trade which would work...
Me? I would be happy to see just about any trade at this point.

Brunnstrom plays left wing and after Penner, we're pretty thin in depth at left wing.

I think our defensive unit's pretty good (excluding strudwick), but we're pretty weak at LW (after Penner), RW (after Hemsky), down the middle (3c), and in the bottom six. Anything to try to address one of these issues would be fine with me.

Brunstromm got the interest of a ton of GM prior to ending up in Dallas. I haven't paid much attention to him, but he's talented with some size.

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11-15-2009, 09:52 PM
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Eh, I dunno. Brunnstrom strikes me as another skilled, underachieving forward.

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11-15-2009, 10:06 PM
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Honestly, I don't really think size has anything to do with it. In the new NHL, its how you play, not what size you are.

Our problem is we have the same type of forwards that play the same sort of game. Gagner, Nilsson, Cogliano, P'OS, Comrie all play pretty similar games. All aren't overly effective along the boards(Gagner I feel regressed in this regard), all aren't big scoring threats(P'OS regressed in this regard), all aren't really good two-way players at all(Though Cogs and P'OS are best of the bunch).

I really don't think you can win with too many guys who play such a passive game. Sure they are good play-makers, but they hurt you so many other areas of the game, I'm not sure you can win. For example, alot of these guys turn the puck over in the neutral zone quite frequently, they get hemmed in their own a fair bit also.

Stuff that hurts your team.

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11-16-2009, 09:20 AM
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I would like to see the Oilers' ice a lineup with, at most, one smaller player per line - smaller player of the type 'we' seem to be 'filled-to-the-brim' with. It would require a few trades, but so be it.

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11-16-2009, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
Honestly, I don't really think size has anything to do with it. In the new NHL, its how you play, not what size you are.

Our problem is we have the same type of forwards that play the same sort of game. Gagner, Nilsson, Cogliano, P'OS, Comrie all play pretty similar games. All aren't overly effective along the boards(Gagner I feel regressed in this regard), all aren't big scoring threats(P'OS regressed in this regard), all aren't really good two-way players at all(Though Cogs and P'OS are best of the bunch).

I really don't think you can win with too many guys who play such a passive game. Sure they are good play-makers, but they hurt you so many other areas of the game, I'm not sure you can win. For example, alot of these guys turn the puck over in the neutral zone quite frequently, they get hemmed in their own a fair bit also.

Stuff that hurts your team.
Oilbleeder, I would tend to agree with you. With several of our recent losses to NYR, NYI, Boston, and Atlanta, we just plain look out-matched during the games. Those teams haven't been particularly physical. Lately, while watch games, it always seems to feel like a lot of things need to go right and the Oil has to play exceptional to get a win. We're not dominating anyone really.

As for your second point, yeah, it seems that Oilers have too many players with duplicate skill sets--a point that Lowetide's been making for a long time. Unfortunately for many players, those skill sets don't include winning puck battles along the board or winning faceoffs.

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11-16-2009, 10:16 AM
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Well in answer to the thread title. Yes. And anyone with a brain could see that. And the gm after his stern speech at last year talked about how we were going to be much grittier this year. Therefore he went out and signed a goalie and Comrie.

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11-16-2009, 11:36 AM
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The Oilers lack size, but some of that size is out of the line up. As for the second part I wouldn't exactly call them talent smurfs. Doesn't it take more than a point every handful of games to be considered as having talent?

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11-17-2009, 05:14 PM
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The Oilers lack size, but some of that size is out of the line up. As for the second part I wouldn't exactly call them talent smurfs. Doesn't it take more than a point every handful of games to be considered as having talent?
I think Quinn referred to some of them as "Morning Glories." Perhaps suggesting that guys like Nilsson look incredible during a morning practice, but are not nearly as impressive during an actual game.

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