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Nov 14 09 || Flames @ Leafs || Start Each Game 2-0 Down

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Old
11-15-2009, 12:01 AM
  #101
mapes
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Originally Posted by no13matssundin View Post
Wow. I have no words. A game that we honestly should have... could have won thru 2, we lose b/c Toskala is the only goaltender in the league who is paid to NOT stop pucks. I'm befuddled and pretty p-oed actually. This was a winnable game. They we're playing great. Then Vesa showed up.

A real let down.
Weren't we down 3-1 when he showed up? Could have won through 2? Vesa didn't give one up until the third. Did you even watch the game?

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11-15-2009, 12:25 AM
  #102
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Realistically, how much longer can the status quo be carried out for the Leafs? Even if they win their next two games, they'll be 5-10-5. That's a 25% win rate through the first 20 games, which is an entire quarter of the season.

For the people bagging on Gustavsson, remember that this is his ROOKIE season in the NHL. Yes those first three goals were horrendous and shouldn't happen, but remind yourself why the Flames were even in the zone. Horrible turnovers (at least on the first two, I didn't catch the third goal).

If you can't play smart hockey then you sure as hell better have an explosive offensive game to make up for your gaffes. The Leafs have neither going for them right now, so every game will be put upon the goalie's shoulders whether they stand on their head (which doesn't happen all to often) or not. Tuesday the team in front of him let him down big time in their loss, and then he doesn't get the nod in their next game on Friday. Coming into tonight's game he must've been nervous as hell and it definitely showed. I don't believe Wilson called a timeout after either of the first two goals to settle his shaky team down after the two weak goals and turnover after turnover, and it sort of boggles my mind why he wouldn't do so (unless he's just content at this point to always play from behind).

The horrible turnovers, the inability to clear pucks out of their own end in many situations, and their general lack of smart hockey play all desperately reek of both non-committed players and bad coaching. Yes I understand that a lot of it has to do with their skill (which would lead one to question why we're up near the salaray cap), but then why aren't they playing a system more suited to their abilities?

If the coach can't be held accountable because of his relationship with his boss (which is starting to bug me as it screams conflict of interest at this point), and there is an unwillingness to shuffle bodies to/from the AHL, then are we just supposed to be content as they continue down their current non-playoff road?

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11-15-2009, 12:26 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by levski87 View Post
Is RW going to try trapping anytime soon?
Should have started three weeks ago. Would have calmed down our D-core and maybe, just maybe salvaged our faint playoffs hopes at the end of October. I would have started trapping after our 7th game. I'm not sure what the Leafs brass is seeing in these guys - this is not a win-through toughness/wear-the-opponent-down play-off team that we were sold on.

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11-15-2009, 12:32 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Punch Imlach View Post
Cherry is bang on with Wallin.
Cherry made Wallin look guilty for wearing a gold chain. That clip was so stupid, many human beings & NHLers wear chains because it means something to them or simply because they never take it off. The clip looked like some cheap propaganda act and was unprofessional of Cherry IMO

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Old
11-15-2009, 12:44 AM
  #105
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I'm telling you right now The Monster looked bad his last two starts. I know you 'fans' will say that this leaf fan is a troll but I can't believe the lengths you'll go to blame Toskla for any loss. This team continues to stink. We have all over estimated the 'talent' that we have.
Excuse me? Speak for yourself when you make such statements!

I was one of the minority on this board who said, during last summer's off-season I might add, that the Leafs were very likely going to be a lottery-pick team this season with a very good shot at drafting the likes of Taylor Hall or any other top draftee at the next Draft.

I see that my prediction currently remains correct.

Unfortunately though, due at least in part to Burke's massive ego, Boston will be the benefactors of a young potentially elite prospect which the Leafs have desperately needed for quite a long time.

If anyone's to blame here, I think it's Brian Burke as he's the main one who over-estimated the "talent level" of this team. You can also lay a large amount a blame at the feet of Ron Wilson because he was given some say as to whom he wanted to see on the roster. Many Leafs fans who post here just simply followed their lead, as far as I can tell.

Regardless, it is my belief that in order for this team to get better, certain things must happen:

1) A new owner, like Jim Balsillie (but not necessarily him) must be found ASAP. Group-ownership is just a recipe for disaster.
2) Management must be willing to be patient and intelligent when making player transactions.
3) The Leafs must be completely torn down to its basic core of REAL TALENT and subsequently re-built with players who truly have NHL-caliber talent, not with a bunch of glorified AHL'ers.

If these things aren't done soon, the Leafs will forever remain a pathetic bottom-feeder and laughing-stock.

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Old
11-15-2009, 12:53 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Cherry made Wallin look guilty for wearing a gold chain. That clip was so stupid, many human beings & NHLers wear chains because it means something to them or simply because they never take it off. The clip looked like some cheap propaganda act and was unprofessional of Cherry IMO
I'm sorry but Cherry is right. Wallin has no place on this team and looks like an idiot wearing that gold chain. I've played hockey 20 years and never seen anyone who didn't take their jewelry off before going on the ice. You're playing hockey not going to a night club.

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Old
11-15-2009, 12:55 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by EucaLEAFtys View Post
3) The Leafs must be completely torn down to its basic core of REAL TALENT and subsequently re-built with players who truly have NHL-caliber talent, not with a bunch of glorified AHL'ers.
2 Things:

1. Are you suggesting they play Kessel and Kaberle and nobody else until they bring them in? You have to have 23 players and you can't bring them in overnight.

2. I actually agree with your statement, but I also believe that is exactly what BB is doing, he is just early in the game. Give it the rest of the year, and you will see the light at the end of the tunnel.

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11-15-2009, 12:57 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Curtis Belfour View Post
I'm sorry but Cherry is right. Wallin has no place on this team and looks like an idiot wearing that gold chain. I've played hockey 20 years and never seen anyone who didn't take their jewelry off before going on the ice. You're playing hockey not going to a night club.
I've been around hockey of many levekls, and have seen many players wear their chains. However, I've also seen old school coaches who are driven crazy by players wearing jewelry.

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11-15-2009, 12:57 AM
  #109
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We have no talent and suck at scoring garbage goals. We are doomed.

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Old
11-15-2009, 01:07 AM
  #110
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We have a few players with better talent on the marlies right now, but no experience. We need a powerforward badly, Hanson or Stalberg should be called up. Size up front is lacking. We don't have the skill to score consistently and we can't rely on Kessel to do it all the time. If that's the case, then we need dirty garbage goals. You need big forwards willing to work for it to do that.

They could replace most any of our forwards and this team would probably benefit as a result.

Yet I still maintain as I said long ago, that Burke is showcasing the guys on the roster right now so he can deal them and bring the kids up. He must know we have better pure talent on the farm than what we have up here.

This is embarrassing.

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Old
11-15-2009, 01:13 AM
  #111
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As a Flames fan I feel sorry for all you fans, please don't take this the wrong way as I'm not trolling but your team needs a total re-build, that was the worst the Flames have played in 10 games (Kipper excluded) but yet we win 5-2. Your forcheck was great and the use of the defense but there's not much talent to finish opportunities.

As an outsider i see a resemblance of the Flames 10 years ago, no where good enough to make the playoffs but too stubborn to suck enough to get a great pick in the draft to rebuild with a great talent (not that it matters this year now)

I was looking forward to watching Kessel and possibly it was just an off-game but what I saw was a guy who doesn't use his teammates at all....maybe just a one game problem.

Just an outsiders view..please don't shoot!

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11-15-2009, 01:16 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
2 Things:

1. Are you suggesting they play Kessel and Kaberle and nobody else until they bring them in? You have to have 23 players and you can't bring them in overnight.

2. I actually agree with your statement, but I also believe that is exactly what BB is doing, he is just early in the game. Give it the rest of the year, and you will see the light at the end of the tunnel.
No. What I'm suggesting is to remove as much of the useless deadwood from the roster as possible and replace it with some actual talent, that's all. If you can only take out say, three or four players, at any given time, then I say "Do it!" Even that kind of talent infusion can be fairly easily done. The Leafs have nothing left to lose, so why not?

I fully realize that a 23-man roster must be maintained, but from where I'm sitting, Burke has failed thus far to follow through regarding statements he made earlier this year that he wasn't afraid to send down players on one-way contracts. I have yet to see this happen, so maybe those statements were just lies.

EDIT: And will that "light at the end of the tunnel" be attached to a subway train barrelling down the track?


Last edited by EucaLEAFtys: 11-15-2009 at 01:34 AM.
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Old
11-15-2009, 01:47 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Cherry made Wallin look guilty for wearing a gold chain. That clip was so stupid, many human beings & NHLers wear chains because it means something to them or simply because they never take it off. The clip looked like some cheap propaganda act and was unprofessional of Cherry IMO
Yeah the gold chain thing was unnecessary but Wallin is a bum.

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Old
11-15-2009, 01:50 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Iggy-4-50 View Post
As a Flames fan I feel sorry for all you fans, please don't take this the wrong way as I'm not trolling but your team needs a total re-build, that was the worst the Flames have played in 10 games (Kipper excluded) but yet we win 5-2. Your forcheck was great and the use of the defense but there's not much talent to finish opportunities.

As an outsider i see a resemblance of the Flames 10 years ago, no where good enough to make the playoffs but too stubborn to suck enough to get a great pick in the draft to rebuild with a great talent (not that it matters this year now)

I was looking forward to watching Kessel and possibly it was just an off-game but what I saw was a guy who doesn't use his teammates at all....maybe just a one game problem.

Just an outsiders view..please don't shoot!
So you admit there is no talent yet you want Kessel, who, forget about a PPG pace, but the guy was almost at a GPG pace to pass? No thanks. That is one guy who I don't mind hogging the puck.

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11-15-2009, 01:57 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Poggemon Destiny View Post
So you admit there is no talent yet you want Kessel, who, forget about a PPG pace, but the guy was almost at a GPG pace to pass? No thanks. That is one guy who I don't mind hogging the puck.
A little confused here! where did I say I "want him"? I knew he had some points since his start but I was commenting on his overall play IN THIS game.

FYI, there is no such thing as a good puck hogger in the NHL. well, maybe AO

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Old
11-15-2009, 02:00 AM
  #116
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Again a game where Leafs worked hard, somewhat dominates ocasionally and yet lose. We need talent in the lineup. I don't see any reason why the college guys and Tlusty aren't getting a shot. They can't be any worse than some of the forwards we have in the team. Sometimes working hard isn't good enough, talent is needed. Hopefully Burke/Wilson realizes this before its too late.

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Old
11-15-2009, 04:12 AM
  #117
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Guys, we were 2-0 down after less than 2 minutes. Since this is a more or less repeating phenomena, I think there's something wrong with the guys' mindset/confidence/motivation or all 3 of these. I am worried that the players are turning against RW, I know this has been up before and I hope I'm wrong, but that's EXACTLY when you get these kind of reactions on the ice.

Another point, why has it become so "cool" and "hip" to blame Jason Blake for everything that goes wrong? Some writers on this board just seem to blame him routinely...to jump on the wagon and be a part of a revolutionary anti-blake group that seems to have some kind of super-status and makes you look good on this board.

For example, tonight he was not on the ice for ANY of Calgarys goals, got an assist himself and looked fairly solid. Sure, he turns the puck over a bit too much in the offensive zone, but so does everyone else on the team, I would say...

He's a -3 this season compared to for example Stajan -8, Beauchemin -9, Komisarek -9 a.s.o. I totally agree that he is overpaid and that the contract length totally sucks for us, but is that HIS fault? I would say it's the Toronto Management's fault who decided to give him such a deal. I think Blake does his very best and considering his age I think he's doing alright.

Players that make MY eyes bleed:

Schenn (should be scratched a couple of games or sent down)
Komisarek (slowly getting better though, very unfortunate injury)
Beauchemin (in his own zone, useful on PP though)
Toskala
Mitchell (looks like an AHLer. Send him down, give Bozak or Hanson a shot).
Stajan (see Mitchell)

These are the most underperforming players atm IMHO. Ponikarovsky looks to lack skill as well, and Grabo turns the puck over just as much as Blake - if not more.


Last edited by Svartsyn: 11-15-2009 at 04:23 AM.
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Old
11-15-2009, 04:27 AM
  #118
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If Cherry doesnt like Wallin wearing a gold chain...he must hate this guy too.




Cherry is right about Wallin, but shouldnt be basing it on a chain. If it annoys you fine, but as much as I like you Cherry, talk about his hockey, not something no one gives a flying **** about.

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11-15-2009, 04:29 AM
  #119
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I'm really starting to dislike Ron Wilson. Not only does he seem to be a poor coach, but his arrogance is really irritating. I'm sure the players are getting tired of him.

Against Minnesota, the Luke Schenn was absolute wasted and he iced the puck. Clearly, they should have called a time-out. Off the face-off, Schenn gets beat to the front of the net, and his guy scores. The next day, all the reporters are slamming Schenn for being lazy. Ron Wilson should come out and say he should have called a time-out, and take some heat off Schenn. I don't care that he didn't call the time-out... I coach, and I make mistakes all the time.... but, for Wilson to let Schenn take the heat is just rediculous.

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11-15-2009, 04:32 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
I'm really starting to dislike Ron Wilson. Not only does he seem to be a poor coach, but his arrogance is really irritating. I'm sure the players are getting tired of him.

Against Minnesota, the Luke Schenn was absolute wasted and he iced the puck. Clearly, they should have called a time-out. Off the face-off, Schenn gets beat to the front of the net, and his guy scores. The next day, all the reporters are slamming Schenn for being lazy. Ron Wilson should come out and say he should have called a time-out, and take some heat off Schenn. I don't care that he didn't call the time-out... I coach, and I make mistakes all the time.... but, for Wilson to let Schenn take the heat is just rediculous.
Even if he doesnt take the blame, he should have done something to get the heat off of him. Talk about some good plays he made, or anything for that matter. Just dont let your player burn under the heat of the media. Sad that a coach would do that.

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11-15-2009, 04:34 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Cherry made Wallin look guilty for wearing a gold chain.
Yeah that was just being picky, but you can't say he didn't have a point about the rest. Wallin doesn't score, doesn't make plays, doesn't fight, doesn't bang bodies. I know a lot of players you can say played well if you didn't notice them, but Wallin is just a mystery. He might not do anything "wrong", but what exactly has he contributed to the team?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartsyn View Post
Another point, why has it become so "cool" and "hip" to blame Jason Blake for everything that goes wrong?

For example, tonight he was not on the ice for ANY of Calgarys goals, got an assist himself and looked fairly solid. Sure, he turns the puck over a bit too much in the offensive zone, but so does everyone else on the team, I would say...
Because he's a play-killer, you can bank on him shooting at the worst time and/or angle, and when he does shoot it's either in the middle of the chest or 4 feet wide of the net.
He's got wheels with rockets on them, he's a little fiesty, but he just has no sense about him.

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Old
11-15-2009, 07:46 AM
  #122
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I know they preach patience.. But you cannot continue to put a lineup like this out there.

As Burke, your making yourself look silly by threatening to send people on 1 ways down to the minors, and not following through.

But whatever. He's trying to retain value for the trade deadline. I don't think anyone is going to want this crap.
The team isn't significantly worse than prior seasons talent wise-- but it's looking more and more like they played way above their head last year. None of this would be an issue if we had our first round pick, but we don't. At this point, ALL we can hope for is that we haven't tossed away the #1 overall pick. That is a ****ing depressing reality.

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11-15-2009, 07:51 AM
  #123
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Gunner, Orr, Mayers, Beuchemin were our best players last night. Not going to win many games when that's the case. (Kaberle goes without saying)

Toskala looks much better, I think he's earned the start next game.

To those who think we could have won this one, no chance. Calgary stopped playing once they were up and turned it back on when needed. It was very apparent from the stands.

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11-15-2009, 08:42 AM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Cherry made Wallin look guilty for wearing a gold chain. That clip was so stupid, many human beings & NHLers wear chains because it means something to them or simply because they never take it off. The clip looked like some cheap propaganda act and was unprofessional of Cherry IMO
Wonder if he has a problem with this guy too..


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11-15-2009, 09:05 AM
  #125
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Everything has to go right for the Leafs to win a game. They aren't good enough to have one aspect of their game(goaltending, defence, offence) have an off-night and still get any points. If they play even one bad period of the 3, that's enough to sink them most times.

Only question now is when does Burke start putting his money where his mouth is and waive some guys and change things up. Because it doesn't look like Wilson can get anything more out of this group.

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