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How good was Bob Probert? (Awesome Tribute Video @ Post #1)

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Old
01-13-2012, 05:25 PM
  #1
Lexus
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How good was Bob Probert? (Awesome Tribute Video @ Post #1)

I started following the NHL in the late 90's, when they actually started to air NHL games over here.

Anyway, im just wondering how good Bob Probert was during his hey-days? Both as a player and a fighter, was there anybody who was superior to him during his time in the NHL (fight-wise)? Especially during his years in Detroit uniform.

Any input is welcome.


Oh! and btw.
If you haven't seen this tribute of him yet, which HockeyWebCaster put together when he passed away you sure have missed out of something.

I've seen it probably 20 times. One of the best tribute videos ever.



Last edited by Lexus: 05-23-2012 at 12:06 PM.
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01-14-2012, 03:20 PM
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His season with 400 pims 62 pts and almost 30 goals has to be one of the most impressive in history really. He made the all star game and he was pretty much untouchable when the gloves were off.

Definitely the toughest to ever play and has some skill to boot. I still prefer Kocur's fights but Probie was king thats for sure. Cant believe those 2 were on the same team

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01-14-2012, 03:24 PM
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If another Bob Probert came around in today's NHL, he'd be arguably the most valuable hockey player in the world. They simply don't make heavyweight enforcers capable of playing on the first line.

If another Probert played with Sidney Crosby, 87 wouldn't have to worry about getting his next concussion (at least not by getting hit by an opponent).

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01-14-2012, 08:56 PM
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Probert with the Wings was the best enforcer to ever play. When he signed with the Blackhawks, not so much. Heck he said in his book he almost got waived in Chi town.

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01-14-2012, 09:02 PM
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for how he abused his body, his fighting stamina was unreal. A lot of fight he would allow the other guy to tire then beat the piss out of him.

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01-14-2012, 09:34 PM
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Probert; Definition: One of the top 3 fighters in the league that can play on the 1st line and score 20 goals.

One of the best "enforcers" to ever play.

He'll never be Clark but he's ahead of Domi.

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01-14-2012, 09:45 PM
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He destroyed guys in full force, always willing to fight anybody. He was pretty much unstoppable before the drugs started getting to him. Even the fights he lost, he didn't take a beating. His hands were like bricks, he would drop guys. He was also amazingly fast and full of energy for a guy his size, just throwing punches from every angle


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01-14-2012, 10:52 PM
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Ogie Goldthorpe
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Probably the most valuable HW of all time. He could beat down pretty much anyone, and still play in your top 6.

Are there guys who have come along since that could take him? Yeah, maybe... in the 2-5 minutes a game that they're on the ice. Even then... Probie would stand a good chance.

Probert didn't win every fight... you can find footage of him losing several. The thing was, if you beat him once, you'd have to look out because he'd fight you again, and probably destroy you the second time. And he'd go with you again and again, if you so chose. Plus he'd give up and coming HW's a chance to test their skills... often to their chagrin.

All this comes from a guy who, back in the day, hated Probert... mostly because he destroyed my team's "tough guys".

Woulda loved to have seen Probert and Kocur (or Nilan or Kordic) have a proper fight or five.

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01-14-2012, 10:59 PM
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We can say that Probert was 'good'.

Read his book a few months back, interesting story and insightful on how things were/are for enforcers. Worth the time IMO.

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01-14-2012, 11:07 PM
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seeweed
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the man was unreal. his stamina was off the charts.

in his prime, probert was the most feared heavyweight ever. yzerman was a lucky SOB!

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01-16-2012, 05:05 PM
  #11
Mike Liut
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Post roids Twist was the best fighter of all time. But Probert was 100X better hockey player. Probert could actually play hockey.

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01-16-2012, 05:40 PM
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The salary cap era can't really afford to have enforcers, unless they can actually play hockey. Its a wasted roster spot when teams really need 3-4 lines skating into the 3rd period. Probert would have thrived in the current era. Really, the only complete enforcer in say the last 25 years.

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01-18-2012, 01:47 PM
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Thanks alot for the nice input guys.

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01-20-2012, 11:27 AM
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Great. But he was no Schultz.

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01-20-2012, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogie Goldthorpe View Post
Probably the most valuable HW of all time. He could beat down pretty much anyone, and still play in your top 6.

Are there guys who have come along since that could take him? Yeah, maybe... in the 2-5 minutes a game that they're on the ice. Even then... Probie would stand a good chance.

Probert didn't win every fight... you can find footage of him losing several. The thing was, if you beat him once, you'd have to look out because he'd fight you again, and probably destroy you the second time. And he'd go with you again and again, if you so chose. Plus he'd give up and coming HW's a chance to test their skills... often to their chagrin.

All this comes from a guy who, back in the day, hated Probert... mostly because he destroyed my team's "tough guys".

Woulda loved to have seen Probert and Kocur (or Nilan or Kordic) have a proper fight or five.
Clarke Gillies was the exact same. As was Rick Tocchet. And those two had some pretty amazing stats for guys who were so tough.

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01-20-2012, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Liut View Post
Post roids Twist was the best fighter of all time. But Probert was 100X better hockey player. Probert could actually play hockey.
Twist was tough and rarely lost but he also didn't fight nearly as much as Probert. According to hockeyfights.com Twist only reached 15 fights once in his career which spanned 10 seasons and Probert reached 15 fights in 11 regular seasons. Twist seemed to only fight on his terms where as Probert would take on anyone and often let young up and coming heavies fight him

Also is it confirmed that Twist did roids? It certainly seems like he did

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01-20-2012, 12:44 PM
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Great. But he was no Schultz.
Indeed. Probert never got his ass kicked by Larry Robinson.

But Probert was a beast. He was just insane when the gloves came off and hardly lost as a Red Wing.

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01-20-2012, 12:50 PM
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Mike Liut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moog35 View Post
Twist was tough and rarely lost but he also didn't fight nearly as much as Probert. According to hockeyfights.com Twist only reached 15 fights once in his career which spanned 10 seasons and Probert reached 15 fights in 11 regular seasons. Twist seemed to only fight on his terms where as Probert would take on anyone and often let young up and coming heavies fight him

Also is it confirmed that Twist did roids? It certainly seems like he did


Twist went from like 200 lbs to 240+ pretty quick. No question he roided up. Hell, I would too if my job was revolved solely on fighting. Twister could never play in today's NHL. But he was the most feared fighter in the league in his prime. I think he would have trouble with the taller fighters like Scott and Boogy imo. Too much reach advantage. Kind of like when Tyson would fight the taller guys like Lewis and Douglass.

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01-20-2012, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryb View Post
Clarke Gillies was the exact same. As was Rick Tocchet. And those two had some pretty amazing stats for guys who were so tough.
Both good examples of guys who could fight and play... both are different than Probert, though.

Gillies was the most similar, but he only fought about 1/3 as much as Probert. He was used more as a "nuclear deterrent". If you were smart, you didn't piss Gillies off.

Tocchet was a far better scorer, and although a good fighter in his own right, I wouldn't really qualify him as a "heavyweight"... just not quite big enough. He fought significantly less than Probie too, although that was probably a product of not wanting to have a 50 goal scorer sitting in the penalty box all the time. See also, Clark and Neely.

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01-20-2012, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogie Goldthorpe View Post
Both good examples of guys who could fight and play... both are different than Probert, though.

Gillies was the most similar, but he only fought about 1/3 as much as Probert. He was used more as a "nuclear deterrent". If you were smart, you didn't piss Gillies off.

Tocchet was a far better scorer, and although a good fighter in his own right, I wouldn't really qualify him as a "heavyweight"... just not quite big enough. He fought significantly less than Probie too, although that was probably a product of not wanting to have a 50 goal scorer sitting in the penalty box all the time. See also, Clark and Neely.
Let's not forget the original role model for the thread, Gordie Howe. He could lay you out quickly too.

Clark Gillies did not go out looking to fight, but he almost always ended it. Same with Neely.

Probert went out looking for it.

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01-20-2012, 04:21 PM
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Probert was a beast. You could say he was a fighter who could really play the game.

Gillies was a player who could fight at the highest HW level. Gilles was an All-Star defensive winger who scored 319 goals, 378 assists in his career but was as good a defensive winger as there was with the exception of Gainey.

Shanahan was a scorer who could fight at a HW level.

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01-22-2012, 12:18 PM
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29 goals 62 points and 398 PIM's in 74 games in 1987-88.... Really an amazing season if you take into account that he also fought 24 times that year and none were easy as he took on the toughest of the tough in the league at the time. Guy was an animal, sad to see how his career ended. Always made me think what could have been if he didnít live life as hard of the ice as he did on it.

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01-22-2012, 12:35 PM
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Probert was/is "The King." As far as enforcers are concerned, he is #1 all-time... and no one touches him. Not Wendel Clark... not Schultz... not Twist. No one. As a matter of fact, most "top three" lists are 1) Probert; 2) Behn Wilson; and 3) Dave Brown. Who's #2 and #3 is debatable.

Probert is #1 for a few reasons. When judging fighters, you have to look at:

- Fight Card - His is top three.
- Results - He beat just about everyone he fought.
- Avenging Losses - He lost some too; but he came back to beat guys like Domi, Ewen, D. Brown, and Crowder.
- KO/TKOs - Curran, Nylund, Semenko, D. Brown, McGill, Crowder, Maguire, Grimson, Odgers, Smith, Quintal, Simpson, Kimble, Domi, Parker.
- Enforcing - He was a legendary enforcer. He protected Yzerman. Look no further than --- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOI3mwK5YLw

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01-22-2012, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
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Great. But he was no Schultz.
he was better....

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01-23-2012, 09:01 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by edog37 View Post
he was better....
Not at all. Schultz, in the enforcer role, was the most effective tough guy in the history of the game. He was the most effective on-ice policeman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogie Goldthorpe View Post
Both good examples of guys who could fight and play... both are different than Probert, though.

Tocchet was a far better scorer, and although a good fighter in his own right, I wouldn't really qualify him as a "heavyweight"... just not quite big enough. He fought significantly less than Probie too, although that was probably a product of not wanting to have a 50 goal scorer sitting in the penalty box all the time. See also, Clark and Neely.
I get what you're saying with Gillies, but Tocchet? C'mon man. Go look at his fight card and tell me he's not a heavyweight. And since when does size decide who's a heavyweight fighter? Engelland, Domi, and Berube were/are all smaller than Tocchet and wouldn't you consider them heavyweights?

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