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Old
11-15-2009, 11:56 PM
  #51
gravytrain6t
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Man oh man, i know hindsight is 20/20.

But John Lennon even said it's alright to "imagine."

Imagine it's the 2001 draft and the Rangers skip over Dan Blackburn and instead take Hemsky!

Then in 2003, the Rangers pass on Jessiman and take Parise.

And of course our first round pick in 2007 does not end in a tragedy!

There's some much needed offense for ya. Plus Hemsky would have had the opportunity to play with Jagr.

But going back to the answering the original thread. I think to improve the Rangers now, is to keep doing what they're doing to prepare for the future. There's no quick fix here.
Scouting young talent and developing from within the organization is key.

And for the person who said Staal is expendable because DZ and Gilroy are here, if anything it would make more sense to say one of the latter two names are expendable.

Staal is not the same type of defense man as DZ and Gilroy. But trust me. For those who would give up Staal, I'm sure most teams in the league would be more than happy to work out some kind of a deal to acquire him.

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11-16-2009, 12:08 AM
  #52
NYR Viper
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Here is the way I see it:

Things the Rangers need:
1) Big, physical d-man who can play in the top-4
2) Secondary scoring/1st liner who can play with Gaborik
3) Size with skill in the top-6


Players that come to mind for each need:

1) Bieksa, Komisarek, Beauchemein, Phaneuf, Hamuis, Weber, J. Johnson
2) Hemsky, Kovalchuk, Savard, Richards, Statsny, Marleau, Spezza,
3) Brown, Lucic, Clarkson, Clowe, Horton

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11-16-2009, 12:23 AM
  #53
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Drury & Sanguinetti for Richards.

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11-16-2009, 12:37 AM
  #54
SomebodySaveKreider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
Here is the way I see it:

Things the Rangers need:
1) Big, physical d-man who can play in the top-4
2) Secondary scoring/1st liner who can play with Gaborik
3) Size with skill in the top-6


Players that come to mind for each need:

1) Bieksa, Komisarek, Beauchemein, Phaneuf, Hamuis, Weber, J. Johnson
2) Hemsky, Kovalchuk, Savard, Richards, Statsny, Marleau, Spezza,
3) Brown, Lucic, Clarkson, Clowe, Horton
Make it happen Slats!

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11-16-2009, 12:42 AM
  #55
I Am Chariot
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Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
I think to improve the Rangers now, is to keep doing what they're doing to prepare for the future. There's no quick fix here.
Scouting young talent and developing from within the organization is key.

Well you are 100% correct. It's a process. A process that evolves as the game evolves.

They have Lundqvist and Gabby signed. That's 2 elite players in key positions/roles

They have promising young talent in Staal, Girardi, Gilroy and Del Z, Dubinsky, Callahan

They have some gristle in Avery - could be a little more gristly this season for my tastes but lets see what happens.


That amounts to a fun team to follow, but not really a big threat in the playoffs imo. I know anything can happen but you can't just lean on that, you have to build a contender and it can take time.

There was a rebuild plan in place coming out of the lockout but Henke and Jagr looked too good not to try to catch lightning....but they came up short.

The Rangers are short on impact players. They have 2 GREAT players, a few very promising rooks and a logjam in the just ok department.

If you disregard Chris Osgood, teams that contend ALL have great goaltending when it counts the most. So Henke in goal doesnt really give the Rangers the edge over a quality opponent. Evens out...

And Gabby is not enough to go up against the competition this season. Other teams just have too many multi threats to throw out there....

Pens with Sid and Geno and Gonchar

Flyers with Richards and Carter and Gagne and Pronger

Caps with AO and Semin and Backstrom and Green

The Debbies with Lou Lams and Parise

NYR have to build a better team. They need a bona fide 2nd threat in the top 6 and some more grittiness in their own end. Teams need to PAY THE PRICE for paying Henke a visit. Teams need to pay the price period.

At times this roster has shown some Grit, but its unsustainable. Cally brings it regularly, Avery, but that's really it. Those two need to be here but they need a real finisher on their line.

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Old
11-16-2009, 01:06 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I wouldn't make any blockbuster deals right now.

However, i would look to improve the team based on the style of play Tortorella likes to employ.

I.E. fast skaters, hard workers.

I would have a list of untouchable players:

Lundqvist
Gaborik
Del Zotto
Staal
Gilroy
Kreider
Stepan
Werek
McDonagh
Sanguinetti
Grachev

After that, anyone is movable.


The players i would target for now:

I would contact Vancouver about Mason Raymond.

Edmonton about Patrick O'Sullivan or Andrew Cogliano.

I'd look into that rumored deal for Andrei Kostitsyn.


Guys who would supply secondary scoring.


Later in the year, at the trade deadline i would focus on the bigger fishes, again keeping a smaller list of untouchables. And going after a top line center, a legit top line center. Specifically Brad Richards. He would be my #1 target.

I wouldn't dare go after Kovalchuk until July 1st if he isn't already resigned with Atlanta by then.
Only three I'd say are untouchable. The rest I'd trade easily.

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Old
11-16-2009, 06:41 AM
  #57
DutchShamrock
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
The guy who embodies a big part of what this team lacks is Dustin Brown. Seems unlikely that LA would trade him to the Rangers, but that's the kind of player I would like to see Sather go after.

Too many leaners on the present roster. Need a few more lifters.
The problem with players like Brown, Mike Richards and Iginla is that every quality that makes them attractive are also the same qualities that would make them never leave their team. I'm talking about loyalty, effort, passion, consistency and results. Their teams will never trade them and those players will never jump ship for a contract elsewhere. We have to find our own.

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11-16-2009, 07:18 AM
  #58
The Perfect Paradox
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Originally Posted by gilles lupien View Post
Huh? Staal being the leader of the defence for a decade? No way. With Gilroy and DZ here now? Staal is perfect trade-material. Rangers can get someone good for him in a package trade. He's not lousy by any stretch but he's expendable for sure, for the right trade.
Yes he will be. There's a reason why the position is called DEFENSE. Don't get me wrong, DZ and Gilroy are great rookies to have and the potential they have is incredible. But, Staal will most likely be our shut down man in the future.

People forget that this whole team is adjusting to a new system, under a new coach. Before the coaching change last season, Staal was taught how to play the game from the mind of a defensive coach, now he's asked to also chip in some offense. I don't know about you, but I've seen improving slowly every game, and sooner or later he'll go back to his original form. Some of us on here forget about how young he is, and defense is the hardest position in hockey to adjust to IMO.

Again, Gilroy and Del Zotto are great talents as puck moving d-man but can't play defense as well as we've seen Staal play.

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Old
11-16-2009, 07:35 AM
  #59
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Bergeron? Lucic? Bieksa? So many of the names that have been mentioned are never going to come here. Lets be realistic...the Rangers are stuck with what they have and will have to work with it. Maybe closer to the deadline things will look better but not right now.

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11-16-2009, 07:50 AM
  #60
Trxjw
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Nice to see that "What have you done for me, lately?" is in full effect.

Staal goes from untouchable to "I'd trade him easily," in a span of 18 games.

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Old
11-16-2009, 08:13 AM
  #61
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the following players would be available

Girardi
Higgins
Callahan
Gilroy
Roszy
Redden
Lisin
Brashear
Boyle
Voros
Drury
Kotalik.

I would try to find a way to improve the team by looking at deals that would move some if not all of the players mentioned above.

Girardi is a player that should be starting to display some nastiness to his game. He's got a nice frame for it, but his temperment is all wrong. I like him, but he's not consistent nearly enough.

Higgins is a player that I had hoped would come in and find new life, but other than being a decent penalty killer, he's not impressed me one bit.

Callahan is a guy that I really do like, but he's a 3rd liner and because of his hustle and grit he's been put onto this untouchable pedastal by the fan base that is beyond my understanding. A 15-20 goal 3rd liner.

Gilroy is a decent defenceman that is getting better defensively. However, we are pretty deep in the system on Defence and truth be told, with Sangs in the fold, I'm not sure I see much of a future here for Gilroy. Perfect trade bait.

Both Roszy and Redden have been beaten to death.

Lisin is a nice speed player, but not much else. One would expect better results playing with the red hot Prospal and Gaborik. That alone says alot about him.

Brashear has been an absolute waste and seems to have slowed a great deal this year. I supported the signing over the summer, but it's not turned out well at all.

Boyle is what he is, a big lumbering 4th line center. OK speed, but I'f swap him out for a smaller faster but equally physical player any day of the week.

Voros, do I really need to get into that here?

Drury, sorry, but for the money they are paying him we can have 2 players giving this team the same production at both ends of the ice. His leadership is overstated and his offence is in decline and he's not an elite defensive specialist so he's making about 3.5 more than he's actually worth. Not worth keeping around. Not at all.

Kotalik, he's been used perfectly here and his numbers reflect that. I'd preferto keep him in that regards, but he's not a deal killer for sure.

The team needs a #1 center. They need players that understand how to play the puck along the boards. They need to be a bit tougher to play against. They need 2 big strong defenceman that lay people down in front of and around the crease.

Defensively alot of what they needed was traded to Philly over the summer. Pronger would have addressed a leadership role (on D) as well as a physical presence and would add a bit more offence.

Offensively, seeing as Brad Richards is an unrealistic option due to his salary a guy like Marc Savard would be sweet to have here. He's one of the best passers in the league. And while he's not a big player, he's smart along the boards and is fiesty in his own right.

Part of me says it would be nic eto add Lucic, another part of me screams over rated. Skating is poor, his D zone coverage is suspect. And for as tough as he is supposed to be, he does a pretty good job picking his spots. Still a player that I think would be an upgrade over 1/2 of our forward group.

A player I would like to add would be Brooks Laich. Solid frame with good wheels.

Finally, I'm not sure if it's the players not getting the system or the system not being effective because what we are seeing is mistakes all over the place and if not for the goalie we have, the record isn't what it is. I don't remember a game where we lookedlike the more dominant team since the Anaheim/Toronto games in October. Since stealing the game aginst the Kings this team has been medicore at best and ha splayed that way. More often than not they are being out played and allowing teams to dictate pace and control tempo.

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Old
11-16-2009, 11:51 AM
  #62
I Am Chariot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Nice to see that "What have you done for me, lately?" is in full effect.

Staal goes from untouchable to "I'd trade him easily," in a span of 18 games.
Nobodys untouchable right?

What if the dealine comes and Kovulchuk is still unsigned?

What if his agent gives Sather the wink wink nudge nudge as per Kovulchuks intentions on July 1st?

Have to give to get right? Have to make a series of move to make cap space for another Elite player.

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11-16-2009, 12:03 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
Nobodys untouchable right?

What if the dealine comes and Kovulchuk is still unsigned?

What if his agent gives Sather the wink wink nudge nudge as per Kovulchuks intentions on July 1st?

Have to give to get right? Have to make a series of move to make cap space for another Elite player.
Guy's like Staal are important pieces on successful teams. Kovalchuk is great and all, but do you give up your potential future to be a one line team again? (Granted, a good one, but I digress.)

If Kovalchuk is available, thought I doubt that will be the case, how much 'gutting' are you willing to do to acquire him? For that matter, what makes you think we could retain him? Surely Atlanta isn't going to take Rozsival back in the deal as a salary dump, so where does the money come from?

This fanbase is so finicky. They want their youth to play, but they're only as good as the next high-priced FA that comes along. If we can get Kovalchuk with a contract extension for Dubinsky, Rozsival, and Kreider, that's great, but I don't see it happening.

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Old
11-16-2009, 12:06 PM
  #64
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This will never happen. Glen Sather is our GM.
Can you explain a little more? I tried to find a trend with all the players you highlighted but I couldn't find one. Sather hasn't traded away a valuable prospect in years unless he was getting one back. That lineup is very possible in the future.

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Old
11-16-2009, 12:18 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
Nobodys untouchable right?

What if the dealine comes and Kovulchuk is still unsigned?

What if his agent gives Sather the wink wink nudge nudge as per Kovulchuks intentions on July 1st?

Have to give to get right? Have to make a series of move to make cap space for another Elite player.
Are you kidding me? Staal is the real deal here and is one piece of our puzzle, that should not be in the equation. Kovy or not, give to get doesn't mean gutting our core. Maybe Sang, Gilroy, Dubi and picks or some other combination.

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Old
11-16-2009, 12:26 PM
  #66
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I would hate to do it, but the onlyway I include Staal is for a Cap-Friendly signed Kovalchuk.

I am not moving my best defenceman for a player based on a wink and a nudge.

10 years at 7 million per is deal I would consider cap friendly.

if not, then I'll take my chances over the summer

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Old
11-16-2009, 01:03 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Nice to see that "What have you done for me, lately?" is in full effect.

Staal goes from untouchable to "I'd trade him easily," in a span of 18 games.
And in the meantime Heatley goes from 'over my dead body' to 'can't miss, shouldn've traded Staal for him when we had the chance.' Both guys are the same exact players they were last season, but since one is a Ranger and the other isn't, the desire for each has changed.

I'll guarentee this: If Sanguinetti makes this team and puts up points his rookie season, watch for the 'Trade Gilroy Now' threads.

edit: wow, I posted this immediately after reading Trxjw's post, before I saw pld's post right after. I guess I'm already too late on my prediction.

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Old
11-16-2009, 01:22 PM
  #68
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Some people here need a reality check.

IMO, we should have kept Antropov. Use him as 2C. Even that is no longer possible let alone the rest.

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11-16-2009, 01:26 PM
  #69
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Obviously the team as it stands now is not enough to beat say, Detroit in the playoffs. Put Zetterberg to shut down Gaborik and this team has no scoring whatsoever.

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11-16-2009, 01:50 PM
  #70
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Not to put all our eggs in one basket, but that could easily be Grachev by the time next season is ready to start.
In which case three 30 goal scorers is better than two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Henrik 30 View Post
I know this was a pretty early post in the thread, but I'm just wondering, why Vanek? Capgeek says he is signed until 2014, and I don't think we should give up the pieces necessary to acquire him.

I do agree that we do need another offensive threat. So we canm have a one-two punch type of thing on offense.
I don't think there is another 40 goal scorer that would be easier to acquire. Not saying it will be easy, I'm just saying he is not as untouchable as a world class player as some people think. He averages only about 60 points a season. He has a huge contract that Buffalo might not be willing to pay. There has been rumors of him getting traded, causing trouble with the coaches, and wanting out of Buffalo. Although he is uber talented and a first class goal scorer, if all of the things above are true he could be a realistic target.

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Old
11-16-2009, 02:13 PM
  #71
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Well I am an Islander fan and I watch a lot of ranger games(50ish per year) so I can give you some of my input if you want. Don't kill me since I am biased because I hate the Rags. I will try to be as honest as I can.

IMO the rangers are counting on Gabroik to stay healthy this year and for Prospal to keep this up. I think at some point this season Gaborik will be hurt and Prospal will get tired. It is a very long season with the Olympics and even longer if you make the playoffs. This being said, you need a legit player who can score 35 goals and I do not see it happening this year. Gaborik is not going to score everygame and the Rangers are not going to win 1-0 every game. Players like Higgens, Drury, Avery will put in goals but not close to what you need, IMO.

The cap will make it imposible for you to get a player like this. You got lucky getting rid of Gomez, and lightning does not strike the same spot twice. I think you are stuck with this team until Drury/Redden are off the team. Kovi is a pipe dream, you will never be able to fit him under the cap. Savard too. The only good thing is you have lots of young d-man who you can trade to pick up some offense. Maybe get a young player with a low cap hit. You would have to really overpay because what team is going to give up a young scoring threat with a low cap?

Sorry to be so negative but I do not see anything changing with this team for some time.

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11-16-2009, 02:31 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islanderfan72 View Post
Well I am an Islander fan and I watch a lot of ranger games(50ish per year) so I can give you some of my input if you want. Don't kill me since I am biased because I hate the Rags. I will try to be as honest as I can.

IMO the rangers are counting on Gabroik to stay healthy this year and for Prospal to keep this up. I think at some point this season Gaborik will be hurt and Prospal will get tired. It is a very long season with the Olympics and even longer if you make the playoffs. This being said, you need a legit player who can score 35 goals and I do not see it happening this year. Gaborik is not going to score everygame and the Rangers are not going to win 1-0 every game. Players like Higgens, Drury, Avery will put in goals but not close to what you need, IMO.

The cap will make it imposible for you to get a player like this. You got lucky getting rid of Gomez, and lightning does not strike the same spot twice. I think you are stuck with this team until Drury/Redden are off the team. Kovi is a pipe dream, you will never be able to fit him under the cap. Savard too. The only good thing is you have lots of young d-man who you can trade to pick up some offense. Maybe get a young player with a low cap hit. You would have to really overpay because what team is going to give up a young scoring threat with a low cap?

Sorry to be so negative but I do not see anything changing with this team for some time.
Don't totally disagree here, but we can move some salary out the doorto fit a Kovy.

For instance, I agree that Drury and Redden are not moving, but the team can trade Roszival and a pick for garbage. They can allow Higgins to walk via UFA and if he continues on this pace, there will be a market for Kotalik.

Rozy - 5 million
Higgins - 2 million
Kotalik - 3 million.

Now, getting Kovy here pre UFA period would cost additional players, not the optimal solution.

But lets assume for a minute we make the above moves.

We get Kovy and Grachev in the line-up to replace Higgins and Kotalik. I'd take that trade off.

The we bring in either Sanguinetti or Sauer or Potter to replace Rozy.

All in all, we actually get better.

And it's not un-realistic to think that those three players can't find homes elsewhere.

Likely? not really, but it can happen.

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11-16-2009, 02:33 PM
  #73
NYR Viper
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Does anyone think a player like Jack Johnson or Nick Petrecki would be available? They would fill a large hole in the entire organization as the smooth skating hard-hitting d-man.

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11-16-2009, 02:34 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Islanderfan72 View Post
Well I am an Islander fan and I watch a lot of ranger games(50ish per year) so I can give you some of my input if you want. Don't kill me since I am biased because I hate the Rags. I will try to be as honest as I can.

IMO the rangers are counting on Gabroik to stay healthy this year and for Prospal to keep this up. I think at some point this season Gaborik will be hurt and Prospal will get tired. It is a very long season with the Olympics and even longer if you make the playoffs. This being said, you need a legit player who can score 35 goals and I do not see it happening this year. Gaborik is not going to score everygame and the Rangers are not going to win 1-0 every game. Players like Higgens, Drury, Avery will put in goals but not close to what you need, IMO.

The cap will make it imposible for you to get a player like this. You got lucky getting rid of Gomez, and lightning does not strike the same spot twice. I think you are stuck with this team until Drury/Redden are off the team. Kovi is a pipe dream, you will never be able to fit him under the cap. Savard too. The only good thing is you have lots of young d-man who you can trade to pick up some offense. Maybe get a young player with a low cap hit. You would have to really overpay because what team is going to give up a young scoring threat with a low cap?

Sorry to be so negative but I do not see anything changing with this team for some time.

Going to be very hard to move Redden for sure with 4 years left after this season on his current contract. There's a possibility (a real longshot) that a team that comes well under the cap might take a shot at Drury in the next year or so but not if he can't put up some numbers and I imagine we'd have to take some kind of toxic asset(s) back. We can only hope that the NHL might allow some teams to slide out from under contracts at the next CBA ala Holik. Rozsival might be moveable though.

The truth is teams cannot get away these days without player development. Free Agency should not be the norm so much--the Rangers and other teams should use it as a way to enhance the team and leave it for that. We've got a lot of players coming along who are very intriguing anyway--so there is much to hope for.

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11-16-2009, 02:56 PM
  #75
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Don't totally disagree here, but we can move some salary out the doorto fit a Kovy.

For instance, I agree that Drury and Redden are not moving, but the team can trade Roszival and a pick for garbage. They can allow Higgins to walk via UFA and if he continues on this pace, there will be a market for Kotalik.

Rozy - 5 million
Higgins - 2 million
Kotalik - 3 million.

Now, getting Kovy here pre UFA period would cost additional players, not the optimal solution.

But lets assume for a minute we make the above moves.

We get Kovy and Grachev in the line-up to replace Higgins and Kotalik. I'd take that trade off.

The we bring in either Sanguinetti or Sauer or Potter to replace Rozy.

All in all, we actually get better.

And it's not un-realistic to think that those three players can't find homes elsewhere.

Likely? not really, but it can happen.
Letting those three frees up 10 million but you have to resign staal, girardi and prospal. I do not know how much Staal and Girardi want but I think it would be atleast 2 million per season for each of them. Prospal is not going to play for 1.2 million if he keeps this up(think more 4 million at the least) If you let Prospal go then you have 6 million left with 10 forwards 5 deffenseman and 1 goalie. If you just bring up players to fill a forward and deffensive spot plus re-sign Valiquette that leaves about 4 million(.750 each). Kovy will not sign for 4 million. I do not see any possible way for the Rangers to be in the market for an impact player this FA season(I know it is really early to say this).

To say something about Drury and Redden, no GM would touch these guys. Gomez has some skill and is why Montreal wanted him. Can you tell me with a straight face that Drury and Redden come close to his skill? Gomez was the one guy last year who came close to making his money out of those three. Drury and Redden will have to be bought out or you will be taking equal money back in a trade. (Drury+really good prospects/top picks for Vinny. This would be awful for the rags)


Last edited by Islanderfan72: 11-16-2009 at 03:08 PM.
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