HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

What's Worked, What Hasn't...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-15-2009, 05:55 PM
  #1
trentmccleary
Registered User
 
trentmccleary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alfie-Ville
Posts: 18,805
vCash: 500
What's Worked, What Hasn't...

There probably won't be any trades until much closer to the trade deadline again this season, so improvement will have to come internally by using the players we already have to best use... and most of them have been successful in some situation.

To choose a frame of reference, I'm picking Spezza's injury.
- The first 10 games, we averaged 3.40 goals.
- Then 1.50 the two games Spezza missed.
- And 2.20 the past 5 games.

The Alfie-Fisher duo was doing great up to Spezza's injury and was mysteriously broken up when Spezza returned.
The Spezza-Michalek duo was starting to catch fire (Spezza & Michalek with 7 pts each in 6 games before Spezza's injury). Now Michalek has 2 points in his last 5 games and Spezza has 3 (all in the same game).

Let's get back to the Fisher-Alfie, Spezza-Michalek situation that was working.

Kovalev wasn't doing much with Fisher and Alfie, yet has looked better in recent games making plays for teamates now that he's been returned to RW (the position he's spent the majority of his career playing). Play Kovalev at RW.

Cheechoo's looked better in recent games, I'm not entirely sure if that's related to any particular change in position or linemates. For now, just move Cheechoo around looking for a scoring role.

Foligno could become a clear option to try on that Fisher-Alfie line due to his success on the similar, but lesser Fisher-Shannon last season.

Michalek - Spezza - Kovalev
Cheechoo - Fisher - Alfredsson
Foligno - Regin - Neil
Ruutu - Kelly - Donovan

Ruutu - Kelly - Donovan/Neil... have played together before and have done great work so far early this season. Don't mess with success.

Foligno - Regin - Shannon/Neil... don't really seem to have much of an identity or chemistry with Shannon playing on the line. They may have even been their best when Cheechoo was on it, as they seemed to be cycling/eating up ice time quite well. Neil would better help them as a grinding, cycle line and Donovan has outplayed Shannon thus far.

Michalek - Spezza - Kovalev
Cheechoo - Fisher - Alfredsson
Foligno - Regin - Neil
Ruutu - Kelly - Donovan


Phillips - Volchenkov... works.

Campoli - Kuba... Kuba on the right side is a failed experiment IMO that needs to end. He helped make Picard look like a competent D-man early last season and Lee played the best he ever has in a Sens uniform down the stretch with him. Put Kuba back on the left, pick one of Lee/Picard and make the change.

Picard - Carkner... Carkner's still playing well himself, but cracks are starting to show in this pairing. Campoli played well down the stretch last season moving the puck on pairings with bigger, more defensive types like Smith and Schubert. I'd try Campoli here with Carkner for a while and see how that goes.

Phillips - Volchenkov
Kuba - Lee/Picard
Campoli/Picard - Carkner


Special teams - IMO, there seems to be a lot of mixing and matching on special teams, more than we've become accustomed to. We have a lot of new players trying to build chemistry with one another and I think it would better if they played as much as possible together... and not trying to get used to say, 3 different partners depending on the situation. Also, mixing and matching means that somebody is always coming onto the ice with less rest than the others. The 06-07 team for example had the Cash line as the 1st PP and the Schaefer- Fisher - Comrie line as the 2nd.

PP 1
Michalek - Spezza - Kovalev
Kuba - Alfie


Alfie's the only player who has move from another line; but he's our best player, we need him on the top unit and our PP has only ever been great with him on the point. That Spezza line has more of an opportunity to build chemistry by playing more together.

PP 2
Cheechoo - Fisher - reward for somebody playing well
Campoli - Lee/Picard


OK, two players have to move from another line... what can ya do?

trentmccleary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-15-2009, 06:00 PM
  #2
sensfan83*
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,625
vCash: 500
Those ES lines look great to me. I think those line combos are obvious to everyone other than Clouston at this point. The only other option is to try Michalek-Fisher-Alfie out. I don't see why you would put Fisher on the 2nd PP unit when he is leading this team in PPG and PPP though.

sensfan83* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-15-2009, 06:07 PM
  #3
trentmccleary
Registered User
 
trentmccleary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alfie-Ville
Posts: 18,805
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sensfan83 View Post
Those ES lines look great to me. I think those line combos are obvious to everyone other than Clouston at this point. The only other option is to try Michalek-Fisher-Alfie out. I don't see why you would put Fisher on the 2nd PP unit when he is leading this team in PPG and PPP though.
Michalek and Spezza were lighting it up, so I'd rather not break up that combo.

Fisher has 5 of our 9 PP goals ... freaky. Still trying to avoid breaking the lines up a tonne, because I believe that a lot of these guys need to play together as much as possible.

trentmccleary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-15-2009, 06:17 PM
  #4
Senateurs
No rispek!!
 
Senateurs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,355
vCash: 500
I'd like to see Kovy play with Regin for a while. We could have 3 scoring line if these two starts to produce away from top opposition.

Michalek-Spezza-Cheechoo
Foligno-Fisher-Alfi
Shannon-Regin-Kovy
Ruutu-Kelly-Neil

Winchester/Donovan

Senateurs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-15-2009, 06:19 PM
  #5
trentmccleary
Registered User
 
trentmccleary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alfie-Ville
Posts: 18,805
vCash: 500
Will Cheechoo start to produce anything with Spezza?

trentmccleary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-15-2009, 06:20 PM
  #6
Icelevel
little bit better
 
Icelevel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,263
vCash: 500
If only Clouston would read these boards. I've been hoping for these lines for the last 2 weeks when things started to go downhill. It worries me that these needed changes are painfully obvious to most people watching except the one guy who should be taking notice and on them right away.
I'm starting to question Clouston's intelligence and ability at this point. He's made some very disappointing decisions that i think have cost the team some points, momentum, and confidence.


Last edited by Icelevel: 11-15-2009 at 06:25 PM.
Icelevel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-15-2009, 06:21 PM
  #7
Icelevel
little bit better
 
Icelevel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senateurs View Post
I'd like to see Kovy play with Regin for a while. We could have 3 scoring line if these two starts to produce away from top opposition.

Michalek-Spezza-Cheechoo
Foligno-Fisher-Alfi
Shannon-Regin-Kovy
Ruutu-Kelly-Neil

Winchester/Donovan
I would hope that Clouston has learned not to scratch Donovan unless he is injured or the line completely dries up.

Icelevel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-15-2009, 06:31 PM
  #8
MatthewT
Registered User
 
MatthewT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,588
vCash: 500
Bingo! You hit the nail on the head. I don't understand why Clouston hasn't tried Kovalev with Michalek and Spezza. Its not like Kovalev has chemistry with Fisher. Why keep them together?

MatthewT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-15-2009, 06:33 PM
  #9
aragorn
YES WE CAN
 
aragorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Azores
Posts: 11,026
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
There probably won't be any trades until much closer to the trade deadline again this season, so improvement will have to come internally by using the players we already have to best use... and most of them have been successful in some situation.

To choose a frame of reference, I'm picking Spezza's injury.
- The first 10 games, we averaged 3.40 goals.
- Then 1.50 the two games Spezza missed.
- And 2.20 the past 5 games.

The Alfie-Fisher duo was doing great up to Spezza's injury and was mysteriously broken up when Spezza returned.
The Spezza-Michalek duo was starting to catch fire (Spezza & Michalek with 7 pts each in 6 games before Spezza's injury). Now Michalek has 2 points in his last 5 games and Spezza has 3 (all in the same game).

Let's get back to the Fisher-Alfie, Spezza-Michalek situation that was working.

Kovalev wasn't doing much with Fisher and Alfie, yet has looked better in recent games making plays for teamates now that he's been returned to RW (the position he's spent the majority of his career playing). Play Kovalev at RW.

Cheechoo's looked better in recent games, I'm not entirely sure if that's related to any particular change in position or linemates. For now, just move Cheechoo around looking for a scoring role.

Foligno could become a clear option to try on that Fisher-Alfie line due to his success on the similar, but lesser Fisher-Shannon last season.

Michalek - Spezza - Kovalev
Cheechoo - Fisher - Alfredsson
Foligno - Regin - Neil
Ruutu - Kelly - Donovan

Ruutu - Kelly - Donovan/Neil... have played together before and have done great work so far early this season. Don't mess with success.

Foligno - Regin - Shannon/Neil... don't really seem to have much of an identity or chemistry with Shannon playing on the line. They may have even been their best when Cheechoo was on it, as they seemed to be cycling/eating up ice time quite well. Neil would better help them as a grinding, cycle line and Donovan has outplayed Shannon thus far.

Michalek - Spezza - Kovalev
Cheechoo - Fisher - Alfredsson
Foligno - Regin - Neil
Ruutu - Kelly - Donovan


Phillips - Volchenkov... works.

Campoli - Kuba... Kuba on the right side is a failed experiment IMO that needs to end. He helped make Picard look like a competent D-man early last season and Lee played the best he ever has in a Sens uniform down the stretch with him. Put Kuba back on the left, pick one of Lee/Picard and make the change.

Picard - Carkner... Carkner's still playing well himself, but cracks are starting to show in this pairing. Campoli played well down the stretch last season moving the puck on pairings with bigger, more defensive types like Smith and Schubert. I'd try Campoli here with Carkner for a while and see how that goes.

Phillips - Volchenkov
Kuba - Lee/Picard
Campoli/Picard - Carkner


Special teams - IMO, there seems to be a lot of mixing and matching on special teams, more than we've become accustomed to. We have a lot of new players trying to build chemistry with one another and I think it would better if they played as much as possible together... and not trying to get used to say, 3 different partners depending on the situation. Also, mixing and matching means that somebody is always coming onto the ice with less rest than the others. The 06-07 team for example had the Cash line as the 1st PP and the Schaefer- Fisher - Comrie line as the 2nd.

PP 1
Michalek - Spezza - Kovalev
Kuba - Alfie


Alfie's the only player who has move from another line; but he's our best player, we need him on the top unit and our PP has only ever been great with him on the point. That Spezza line has more of an opportunity to build chemistry by playing more together.

PP 2
Cheechoo - Fisher - reward for somebody playing well
Campoli - Lee/Picard


OK, two players have to move from another line... what can ya do?
Good lines - on defense I remember that Picard had all kinds of trouble playing on the right side, of course he isn't much better on the left either. I would have Picard as the 7th d sitting out as soon as Volchenkov returns. Of course, Murray could also send Lee back to save some money (cap space) for down the road. If that is the case I would put Picard with Kuba again & Campolli with Carkner.

Kuba - Lee
Phillips - Volchenkov
Campolli - Carkner/Picard

You make good points but IMO Murray has to be working the phones to try & make some deals asap if this team has any chance of making the playoffs, I just don't see this lineup making the playoffs. They are just not playing very well against mediocre teams & the longer he waits the less chance this team has. I guess we wait & see.

aragorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-15-2009, 06:40 PM
  #10
trentmccleary
Registered User
 
trentmccleary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alfie-Ville
Posts: 18,805
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
I would have Picard as the 7th d sitting out as soon as Volchenkov returns. Of course, Murray could also send Lee back to save some money (cap space) for down the road.

Kuba - Lee
So would I, which is why I'd keep Lee up and move a forward. No point having two extra forwards watching games and having to constantly call up an extra D-man because we aren't keeping any extras.

trentmccleary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-15-2009, 06:46 PM
  #11
Icelevel
little bit better
 
Icelevel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,263
vCash: 500
Listening to the post game 1200 show on Saturday, Mike Eastwood was saying the same things about Fisher-Alfie, Spezza-Kovalev, and Donovan on the fourth. It was nice to hear on the radio. Eastwood did not sound impressed with Clouston.

Icelevel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-15-2009, 06:53 PM
  #12
Karl Cowensson
Two Headed Monster!
 
Karl Cowensson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northern Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,125
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dred View Post
Listening to the post game 1200 show on Saturday, Mike Eastwood was saying the same things about Fisher-Alfie, Spezza-Kovalev, and Donovan on the fourth. It was nice to hear on the radio. Eastwood did not sound impressed with Clouston.
No one seems to be lately. I gave Clouston the first 20 games to juggle the lines and see what works and doesn't. Obviously even we've noticed what has and hasn't been effective. Time for Clouston to take notice and stabilize the lineup. A tweak here and there is okay, but its time to stick to what seems best and build some chemistry in the lines.

Karl Cowensson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-15-2009, 06:58 PM
  #13
Senateurs
No rispek!!
 
Senateurs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,355
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dred View Post
I would hope that Clouston has learned not to scratch Donovan unless he is injured or the line completely dries up.
Unfortunately, Donovan is the easy choice. He doesn't deserve to be a scratch but that's just how it goes for a 4th line player. Personnaly, I would scratch Ruutu once in a while. He takes a lot of stupid penalties.

Senateurs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-15-2009, 07:01 PM
  #14
PoutineSp00nZ
Beat that $%^& Bryan
 
PoutineSp00nZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,649
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senateurs View Post
Unfortunately, Donovan is the easy choice. He doesn't deserve to be a scratch but that's just how it goes for a 4th line player. Personnaly, I would scratch Ruutu once in a while. He takes a lot of stupid penalties.
He takes one every once in a while, but thats a side effect of being an agitator. He wouldn't be doing his job if he wasn't skating alone the line that way.

All that being said, I think Ruutu has been awesome this year! By far the Sen's best bottom 6 forward. What is he, fourth or fifth in team scoring playing like 12 minutes a night? All that is just gravy, but its sweet, succulent, artery clogging gravy.

PoutineSp00nZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-15-2009, 07:54 PM
  #15
SNAPshot
Registered User
 
SNAPshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: OTTAWA
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,331
vCash: 500
Personally, there are two other options I'd like tried out:

1) Foligno back on the PP
2) Re-unite the Kovalev-Regin-Fisher line

SNAPshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-15-2009, 09:13 PM
  #16
The Mars Volchenkov
Everberg flow
 
The Mars Volchenkov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Colorado
Country: United States
Posts: 37,619
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to The Mars Volchenkov
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senateurs View Post
Unfortunately, Donovan is the easy choice. He doesn't deserve to be a scratch but that's just how it goes for a 4th line player. Personnaly, I would scratch Ruutu once in a while. He takes a lot of stupid penalties.
Scratch Ruutu? He's been the best bottom 6 forward on the team all year long. Yes, he takes a few dumb penalties, but he plays a big role on the PK and is putting up offensive numbers too. No way you take him out of the lineup.

The Mars Volchenkov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-15-2009, 11:04 PM
  #17
Laoghaire
Registered User
 
Laoghaire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,265
vCash: 500
Michalek - Spezza - Kovalev
Foligno - Fisher - Alfredsson
Ruutu - Regin - Cheechoo
Donovan - Kelly - Neil

I liked how Cheechoo has looked with Regin and simultaneously Foligno and Fisher will outwork any defence down low giving Alfredsson lots of room. Plus I think given how well Ruutu has played lately he should be given a little more of a role on the thrid line.

Laoghaire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-15-2009, 11:04 PM
  #18
Pangu
Registered User
 
Pangu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,531
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
Scratch Ruutu? He's been the best bottom 6 forward on the team all year long. Yes, he takes a few dumb penalties, but he plays a big role on the PK and is putting up offensive numbers too. No way you take him out of the lineup.
If anything, they should play him more. The guy is the second most efficient scorer on the team - and that doesn't even consider that his minutes haven't been primo scoring minutes.

Pangu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2009, 11:05 AM
  #19
Icelevel
little bit better
 
Icelevel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,263
vCash: 500
If anyone is going to the game tomorrow, can you do us a favor and bring a sign for Clouston that says,

Fisher needs Alfie, Kovalev needs Spezza, the fans need entertainment.

In case the lines aren't fixed by tomorrow. Looking at the player stats lately, i'm getting worried.

Icelevel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2009, 11:17 AM
  #20
Puckhog27
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 783
vCash: 500
I have noticed that coaches seem to like certain line combos and will stick with them. They will try a new one for and if it doesn't produce right away then they will switch it back to the combos that they like even if those combos aren't producing. This team has struggled a little of late on the offensive side of things and they need a little spark IMO. Even the consistent players like Alfie, Spezza, and Michalek haven't been producing much during small skid. On the flip side there has been at least one weak goal from the goalie every game and the team defense has been pretty bad at times. There have been a lot of turnovers right in the Sens own end with no pressure on the puck carrier. Defense is a big issue for the team right now more then anything else.

Puckhog27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2009, 11:25 AM
  #21
Iggy77
Registered User
 
Iggy77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 1,431
vCash: 500
Lines at practice today:

Michalek-Spezza-Alfredsson
Foligno-Fisher-Kovalev
Cheechoo-Regin-Neil-Winchester
Ruutu-Kelly-Donovan-Shannon.

I don't understand CC's line combos at all.

Iggy77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2009, 11:28 AM
  #22
Icelevel
little bit better
 
Icelevel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy77 View Post
Lines at practice today:

Michalek-Spezza-Alfredsson
Foligno-Fisher-Kovalev
Cheechoo-Regin-Neil-Winchester
Ruutu-Kelly-Donovan-Shannon.

I don't understand CC's line combos at all.
He is a complete moron if that is true.

Icelevel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2009, 11:45 AM
  #23
senators2007
Registered User
 
senators2007's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 222
vCash: 500
Personally from what I have observed over the past few games I have thought that Cheechoo and Kovalev have played well together, it looks as though those two have some chemistry when they played on the same line and if Clouston kept them together perhaps they could develop it. The only problem with this is that Cheechoo still isn't able to finish as well as he can, these two were getting atleast one high quality- if not more than one- scoring chance during the past 3 games, just my two cents here. While I have been impressed with Mike Fisher's play, I wouldn't mind seeing a line consisting of Cheechoo - Regin - Kovalev.


Last edited by senators2007: 11-16-2009 at 11:51 AM.
senators2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2009, 11:50 AM
  #24
Icelevel
little bit better
 
Icelevel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by senators2007 View Post
Personally from what I have observed over the past few games I have thought that Cheechoo and Kovalev have played well together, it looks as though those two have some chemistry when they played together and if Clouston kept them together perhaps they could develop it. The only problem with this is that Cheechoo still isn't able to finish as well as he can, these two were getting atleast one high quality- if not more than one- scoring chance during the past 3 games, just my two cents here. While I have been impressed with Mike Fisher's play, I wouldn't mind seeing a Cheechoo - Regin - Kovalev.
Agreed. Cheechoo was playing well with Kovalev. Why Clouston is breaking up all things that work is beyond me. At least let them play a few. Guess we'll see what the lines are tomorrow.
Quote:
While I have been impressed with Mike Fisher's play, I wouldn't mind seeing a Cheechoo - Regin - Kovalev.
Or you could try Cheechoo - Spezza - Kovalev


Last edited by Icelevel: 11-16-2009 at 11:56 AM.
Icelevel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2009, 02:31 PM
  #25
Nestea
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 630
vCash: 500
I like the OP's logic in line combinations and duos.

I'd like to shake up the lineup completely because this lack of offense recently has been frustrating.

Michalek - Spezza - Cheechoo
Shannon - Fisher - Alfredsson
Foligno - Regin - Kovalev
Ruutu - Kelly - Donovan/Neil

Although, I'd like Neil and Donovan to be in the lineup every night.

Some notes:
- I'd like to give Kovalev a smart, skilled center like Regin who knows where to go and is smart with his passes.
- I'd like Cheechoo and Spezza to get a longer look, it's bound to catch fire. Cheech knows where to go.
- Fisher and Alfredsson are proven together.
- Shannon can move around the lineup. I could see Ruutu, Neil or Winchester up there as well.

Nestea is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:00 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.