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Have they changed systems?

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11-13-2009, 11:04 AM
  #1
NikC
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Have they changed systems?

Ever since the whipping from SJ this team looks like they've
stopped playing the same hockey that got them their 7-1 record.

They're backing up now, dumping the puck, and not chasing, not
forechecking.

I can see being off a game, but they never returned...

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Old
11-13-2009, 11:33 AM
  #2
mullichicken25
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i dont think they've switched philosophies, rather they're trying to do too much

its never good when players try to do this

they're a little too eager to out of their own zone, our forwards,centers especially, aren't begin responsible on the back check and it doesn't help to lose 2 of your top 3

but, when they get in the zone, it seems as if they're being cautious. I think its actually a case of them trying too hard to set up better plays as opposed to moving the puck quick and playing off of their instincts. They hit a bump in the road and they started thinking

i think that's a result of completely dominating some games in that west coast trip and not having much to show for it.

They need to go back to going wide open on both backcheck and forecheck and the pieces will fall in place, and it won't hurt to get a healthy dubinsky and drury back

but again, i don't think its a change in philosophy, more likely a case of a team in little rut trying to do too much

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11-13-2009, 11:37 AM
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Bleed Ranger Blue
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Torts helped throw a monkey wrench into this team after the San Jose debacle.

First by switching the lines (Enver Lisin on the first line?? Really??!), and then by micromanaging (benching Dubinsky after one turnover).

The philosophy/system hasnt changed, but Torts' bullying behavior and propensity to needlessly shake things up has this team walking on eggshells, and it shows.

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11-13-2009, 11:43 AM
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McMonster
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the SJ game was the beginning of this disaster.

Does anybody remember that questionable decision the coach made? Like, starting Valiquette for absolutely no reason and then proceeding to get crushed?

IMO, that game is what caused all of this. They were playing awesome up until that game.

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11-13-2009, 12:12 PM
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King of cool
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckhead71 View Post
the SJ game was the beginning of this disaster.

Does anybody remember that questionable decision the coach made? Like, starting Valiquette for absolutely no reason and then proceeding to get crushed?

IMO, that game is what caused all of this. They were playing awesome up until that game.
Yes and no, we were just on a roll benefiting of the confidence earned early in the streak. A few games before that Sharks games, against the Leafs and the Kings if I'm not mistaken, the team already showed some weaknesses. We wouldn't have pushed that streak to 7 without Lundqvist. I would consider the rupture point right after the game against the Ducks.

EDIT: We would have started losing that week anyway, with or without Lundqvist in goal against the Sharks. The whole team collapsed that night, not only Valiquette.


Last edited by King of cool: 11-13-2009 at 12:57 PM.
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Old
11-13-2009, 12:55 PM
  #6
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I think they played better hockey in at the start, but in the end this team just isn't very good. Some aspects like fundamentals can definitely be improved, but they will struggle irregardless. Even with Gaborik this could be a rebuilding year for the team, especially now with Drury and Dubinsky out.

I do think they have just enough to maybe squeeze into the playoffs like in previous years. Guess we'll have to see though. Both the coach and the players will have to get their heads out of their ***** for that happen

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Old
11-13-2009, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Torts helped throw a monkey wrench into this team after the San Jose debacle.

First by switching the lines (Enver Lisin on the first line?? Really??!), and then by micromanaging (benching Dubinsky after one turnover).

The philosophy/system hasnt changed, but Torts' bullying behavior and propensity to needlessly shake things up has this team walking on eggshells, and it shows.
i have to agree with this a little bit, because a player like Dubinsky makes a move to create a play and gets burned for it. then he is sat and the next few games becomes really tight with the puck. It wasnt so much he tried to make a move and gave the puck away, it was the area of the ice where he did it.

Tortorella wants the Rangers to win the neutral zone, and when they were winning all those games had a total different look in that zone and specifically on the Rangers blue line side of it.

I dont see as much pinching, stepping up to break up plays at the line and moves to free up space coming into the zone. Its going to be a learning process here, because the dust has settled from the hot start. If you watched the games closely they were getting away from this leading up to the Sharks debacle, and it was masked by the W's.

The unfettered attack on the puck has regressed for a number of reasons, one being Tortorellas punishment by example on a few occasions. So you cant ask for two things at once, especially when you have a very young inexperienced defense to fall back on. This is why I was begging for another veteran defenseman. Del Zotto and Gilroy have played as well as they possibly can as rookies to this point IMO. But even still there is going to be bumps. These guys will not hold up for a full season and like i said, when the games start piling up there will be mental mistakes all over the place because of their inexperience with the NHL game and the rigors of a full season. I dont think anyone could expect this defense to hold up at a 7-1 click all season - but you have to adjust for that and i havent seen that as of yet, in the form of a replacement or fill-in - or a change in the game systems to compensate.

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Old
11-13-2009, 01:38 PM
  #8
GeorgeHamiltonsTan
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ask yourself this...where would this team be right now if it werent for a hot pp early on, and lundqvist? not so pretty...
majority of folks seem to think everyone (myself included) is over-reacting to this "skid" when the truth of the matter is, the rangers couldve and probobly shouldve lost another 3-4 games at least.
No one in thier right mind (that means you Torts) would implement this "system" on a team with 2 rookie defenseman, 2 very young dmen and 2 old financial abatross' that are coming off of horrendous seasons. Not sure why everyone is so shocked this team has been getting scored on at will.

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Old
11-13-2009, 01:43 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHamiltonsTan View Post
ask yourself this...where would this team be right now if it werent for a hot pp early on, and lundqvist? not so pretty...
majority of folks seem to think everyone (myself included) is over-reacting to this "skid" when the truth of the matter is, the rangers couldve and probobly shouldve lost another 3-4 games at least.
No one in thier right mind (that means you Torts) would implement this "system" on a team with 2 rookie defenseman, 2 very young dmen and 2 old financial abatross' that are coming off of horrendous seasons. Not sure why everyone is so shocked this team has been getting scored on at will.
And they could have easily have won another 3-4 games as well if it wasn't for a few posts (Isles game and yesterdays game comes right to mind). So it goes both ways.

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11-13-2009, 01:47 PM
  #10
t3hg00se
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This team won't be running Torts' system in it's true form until 50-60 games into the season. He's said that and we all know that. The D is too young, and showing they are not nearly skilled enough to do so.

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Old
11-13-2009, 01:47 PM
  #11
HockeyBasedNYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
And they could have easily have won another 3-4 games as well if it wasn't for a few posts (Isles game and yesterdays game comes right to mind). So it goes both ways.
They hit three or four last night, and Hedberg and Kipper were fantastic in the last two as well.

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Old
11-13-2009, 01:49 PM
  #12
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Have they changed systems? Absolutely not. This team is lucky to have the amount of wins they have now though. Some fans are expecting to see results on the ice immediately, when in reality that is never going to happen.

This team is way different from last year, two new coaches and a whole new group of players pretty much, I didn't expect them to win 7 straight games in the beginning, but then again who did? Some people on this board are forgetting that pretty much everybody besides Prospal came to this team without knowing the system fully yet.

We are approaching our 20th game soon and we're lucky to have a winning record. We have 3 rookies, 2 on defense. We have one of the youngest teams in the NHL, lets also not forget that many come from different backgrounds of playing style. To ask for a group of 21 players who had very little to no chemistry coming into the season to be a above average team in the NHL, is a little ridiculous.

Even though we are losing games, I'm seeing that the players are getting closer to playing the style that Torts likes. I know I've said this many times, but were seeing some flashes where they are dominating periods/multiple periods of play. We just have to learn how to do that constantly, while maintaining average defensive play. Again, that's very hard considering the age and background of this team.

Just my two cents.

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11-13-2009, 03:00 PM
  #13
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Everyone is discounting other teams' efforts.

During the 7 game winning streak, the Rangers weren't terribly effective in moving the puck up ice consistently. They were quite successful in separating the puck from other team, especially with an aggressive forecheck

Opposing teams success in capturing and moving the puck out of the defensive zone are two-fold:

1) Getting up to game speed: It takes time for players to get used to the pace of the NHL game. I can put together clips comparing defensemen recovering and moving the puck in week 1 and now. There is no comparison. Players are making passes they couldn't see or execute during the first few weeks.

2) Video Preparation: Tortorella doesn't believe in showing video of opposing teams to his players. Other coaches do. Other teams have exposed the Rangers forecheck by giving defenders more exit/breakout choices. Couple this w/ defenders now back in the groove of playing full speed hockey. If you compare the 2 game videos of the Rangers v. Devils, the Devils employed a few more successful breakout schemes.

While there was a popluation of Ranger fans jubilant during the 7 game winning streak, they were ignoring the fact that the Rangers weren't able to control the puck from one end to another. They were very good at separating the puck from the opposing team and doing something w/ it.

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Old
11-13-2009, 03:21 PM
  #14
HAPPY HOUR
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Torts system is based on speed and puck pursuit.

Lately this teams looks a step behind and takes more penalties because they don''t have the puck.

Defense looks slow going back to retrieve the puck also..

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11-15-2009, 10:24 AM
  #15
mhurley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Torts helped throw a monkey wrench into this team after the San Jose debacle.

First by switching the lines (Enver Lisin on the first line?? Really??!), and then by micromanaging (benching Dubinsky after one turnover).

The philosophy/system hasnt changed, but Torts' bullying behavior and propensity to needlessly shake things up has this team walking on eggshells, and it shows.
Last night Kotalik made a turnover that was far worse then Dubi's. And, to add insult to injury, Kotalik took another reaching penalty with one minute left in OT that forced his teammates to bust their balls defending it.

I don't care if Kotalik scored in the shoot out. If Tortorella wants to send a consistant message he should bench Kotalik next game and explain why to the fans and the press.

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Old
11-15-2009, 05:44 PM
  #16
RangerFan10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckhead71 View Post
the SJ game was the beginning of this disaster.

Does anybody remember that questionable decision the coach made? Like, starting Valiquette for absolutely no reason and then proceeding to get crushed?

IMO, that game is what caused all of this. They were playing awesome up until that game.
If that's the one reason for any bad play after that game, then it was only a matter of time. You mean to tell me the team's psyche is ****ed after one horrible game? Because if that's the case the team wasn't going to go anywhere anyway.

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Old
11-15-2009, 05:45 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhurley View Post
Last night Kotalik made a turnover that was far worse then Dubi's. And, to add insult to injury, Kotalik took another reaching penalty with one minute left in OT that forced his teammates to bust their balls defending it.

I don't care if Kotalik scored in the shoot out. If Tortorella wants to send a consistant message he should bench Kotalik next game and explain why to the fans and the press.
On top of Kotalik dogging it on the only goal the Sens scored on the backcheck...

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Old
11-15-2009, 09:29 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR PowerForward View Post
....They're backing up now, dumping the puck, and not chasing, not forechecking....
That is exactly what I have noticed too. Recently, attackers have had a fair bit more time to set things up. Maybe it's a hard thing to sustain, but I don't see as many neutral zone challenges when the opposition is advancing the puck.

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