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Howard gets 4th straight start vs. Dallas

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Old
11-16-2009, 04:08 PM
  #1
zetterberg40
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Howard gets 4th straight start vs. Dallas

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....-+MLive.com%29

Larsson was sent back Saturday and they said Ozzie is still battling the Flu and they hope he could be well enough to be backup.

Quote:
The lines remain the same:

Bertuzzi-Datsyuk-Holmstrom
Leino-Zetterberg-Cleary
Draper-Helm-Eaves
May-Abdelkader-(Maltby and Miller rotating)

Lidstrom-Rafalski
Kronwall-Stuart
Ericsson-Lebda
Meech-Lilja

Howard (starting)

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11-16-2009, 06:40 PM
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Good, he's earned it. Or at least I like the fact he's getting his feet more and more wet.

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11-16-2009, 06:41 PM
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Hopefully Howard will buck his trend of playing progressively worse the more starts he gets in a row. He needs another 1 or 2 goal against effort.

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11-17-2009, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Hopefully Howard will buck his trend of playing progressively worse the more starts he gets in a row. He needs another 1 or 2 goal against effort.
I agree. That would be a huge confidence boost for him. We need Howard; even though (some of us) donít think he is a NHL goaltender.

Like zetterberg40, I am a huge Howard fan

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11-17-2009, 04:28 PM
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He's never gotten this much playing with the Wings but he's done well when given the opportunity. I don't think he's unseeded Ozzie but I'm feeling better about him than I did early on. His best game as a Red Wing was that win last week against Vancouver...albeit against a shorthanded Canucks team but he out-dueled Bobby Luo.

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11-17-2009, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by TOPGUN View Post
I agree. That would be a huge confidence boost for him. We need Howard; even though (some of us) donít think he is a NHL goaltender.

Like zetterberg40, I am a huge Howard fan
I'm not a 'fan' per se, but I always want a Wings player to be successful.

Unfortunately, I can't disconnect my prediction of whether he will be from that.

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11-17-2009, 10:30 PM
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I like seeing him get more time, since I'm curious as to whether or not he really has improved with his rebounds or if its just a fluke that they've been fewer and further between of late. Other than his rebounds, his confidence needs a big boost. Hes looking like he has the mentality of Manny Legace: Let in a weak goal in a tight game, and you might as well chalk him up for a 3+ GA night. This has happened against the Blues and now the Ducks.

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11-18-2009, 10:41 AM
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I hope you all see what happens when you give the kid time and patience. We've been spoiled over the years but its good he has taken the job when its given to him and has ran with it for the most part.

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11-18-2009, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
I like seeing him get more time, since I'm curious as to whether or not he really has improved with his rebounds or if its just a fluke that they've been fewer and further between of late. Other than his rebounds, his confidence needs a big boost. Hes looking like he has the mentality of Manny Legace: Let in a weak goal in a tight game, and you might as well chalk him up for a 3+ GA night. This has happened against the Blues and now the Ducks.
He actually seems to be a bit mentally unstable in the fact that if he makes a few easy stops and no big rebounds in the first 10-15 min of the game he appears to be able to play a solid game, but if he lets in a weak goal he gets rattled right away and subsequently gets lit up. If that is who he is I guess we just have to make sure our D plays a solid first period so he can gain the confidence he needs for the rest of the game.

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11-18-2009, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
I'm not a 'fan' per se, but I always want a Wings player to be successful.

Unfortunately, I can't disconnect my prediction of whether he will be from that.
Understandable. But like zetterberg40 said: Give the kid some time and maybe he will succeed

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11-19-2009, 01:04 PM
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I hope you all see what happens when you give the kid time and patience. We've been spoiled over the years but its good he has taken the job when its given to him and has ran with it for the most part.
Okay, let me preface this by saying that I want Howard to succeed. I don't know if he will or not, but it would be wonderful if he surprises me and becomes a legitimate NHL starting goaltender.

That said, I would like to take a moment to point out that he is inferior statistically to Chris Osgood in every category right across the board, and people are saying that Osgood has been pretty bad this year. And Howard's had the lighter opponents by a significant amount.

In other words, expressing jubilation regarding Howard performing at a level inferior to what the other goalie is getting slammed for seems a bit odd.

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11-19-2009, 01:21 PM
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ES sv%
howard: .931 (good)
osgood: .905 (bad)

SH sv%
osgood: .870 (decent)
howard: .793 (terrible)


howard let in bad PP goals in several games.

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Old
11-19-2009, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
ES sv%
howard: .931 (good)
osgood: .905 (bad)

SH sv%
osgood: .870 (decent)
howard: .793 (terrible)

howard let in bad PP goals in several games.
You mean like the one Ericsson deflected right past him where he had no chance to stop it?

Or the 5 on 3 where he was actually in position to stop anything but a perfect shot and got beaten by a perfect shot?



I could go on about sample sizes and whatnot, but nah, it's not worth it.

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11-19-2009, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
ES sv%
howard: .931 (good)
osgood: .905 (bad)

SH sv%
osgood: .870 (decent)
howard: .793 (terrible)


howard let in bad PP goals in several games.
Howard's played lighter competition. His stats should be significantly better than Osgood's across the board if the assumption is he's been playing better.

Again, I hope I end up being wrong about Howard, but people crowing about how well he's played and/or how much respect he's earned from Babcock when a guy who gets knifed about every day in here has better numbers against better opposition... well, I would suggest a bit more hesitation.

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11-19-2009, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
You mean like the one Ericsson deflected right past him where he had no chance to stop it?

Or the 5 on 3 where he was actually in position to stop anything but a perfect shot and got beaten by a perfect shot?



I could go on about sample sizes and whatnot, but nah, it's not worth it.
did i say howard allowed only bad PP goals?

it is still true that howard allowed bad PP goals in several games.


he looked terrible vs edmonton. weak vs STL. bad goal vs anaheim.

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11-19-2009, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Okay, let me preface this by saying that I want Howard to succeed. I don't know if he will or not, but it would be wonderful if he surprises me and becomes a legitimate NHL starting goaltender.

That said, I would like to take a moment to point out that he is inferior statistically to Chris Osgood in every category right across the board, and people are saying that Osgood has been pretty bad this year. And Howard's had the lighter opponents by a significant amount.

In other words, expressing jubilation regarding Howard performing at a level inferior to what the other goalie is getting slammed for seems a bit odd.
Its not really that odd. Osgood has higher expectations than Howard, and Howard's first game as the Wings starter this year was an absolute stink bomb. So the jubilation comes from "hey, Howard actually IS capable of winning a game" whereas the criticism of Osgood comes from "Are you just not a good goaltender anymore?" Regardless of whether or not I agree with either of those sentiments.

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11-20-2009, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Its not really that odd. Osgood has higher expectations than Howard, and Howard's first game as the Wings starter this year was an absolute stink bomb. So the jubilation comes from "hey, Howard actually IS capable of winning a game" whereas the criticism of Osgood comes from "Are you just not a good goaltender anymore?" Regardless of whether or not I agree with either of those sentiments.
So, you don't think it's really that odd for one level of performance which allegedly causes people to wonder if a guy is a good goalie anymore to be superior to another level of performance which leads people to conclude a goalie can win a game?

Your description makes it sound more odd rather than less. If Osgood's play is so bad that people don't even know if he's good, I guess I'm just a bit bemused by people who are relieved that Howard hasn't quite reached that level of play yet.

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11-20-2009, 07:27 AM
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Both Osgood and Howard are playing OKAY. Good enough! It just seems the Wings come to the ice some nights are just completely dis-interested in playing Red Wing Hockey. That's huge problem.

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11-20-2009, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
did i say howard allowed only bad PP goals?

it is still true that howard allowed bad PP goals in several games.

he looked terrible vs edmonton. weak vs STL. bad goal vs anaheim.
He has played much better with consistent starts. I would chalk up a portion of his prior sloppiness to the fact that he was playing once every 2-3 weeks. That is difficult for a veteran goalie to adjust to, much less a rookie.

Not perfect, but much better.

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11-20-2009, 11:42 AM
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He has played much better with consistent starts. I would chalk up a portion of his prior sloppiness to the fact that he was playing once every 2-3 weeks.
Obviously a bit of an exaggeration on your part, but even deflating the exaggeration out of the sentiment, it's still wrong. Howard's three worst games of the year were his first, his fifth, and his eighth appearance.

His first apperance was the teams second game of the year. Granted, I don't have a problem writing that off to jitters, but the idea that it was coach-induced inaction would be faulty.

His fifth appearance (10/29) was his third in 6 days. He started on 10/24, relieved Ozzy quickly on 10/27, and then started on 10/29. He was demonstrably better in the first two showings than he was in the third.

His eighth appearance (11/14) was his third in 4 days. He started on 11/11 and 11/12 and was solid in both. 11/14 against the Ducks? Little shaky.

The TL;DR version? His bad starts didn't come after a stretch of inaction, but of action.

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11-20-2009, 12:48 PM
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And yet he was outstanding in back to backs last Wed and Thurs.

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11-20-2009, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
So, you don't think it's really that odd for one level of performance which allegedly causes people to wonder if a guy is a good goalie anymore to be superior to another level of performance which leads people to conclude a goalie can win a game?

Your description makes it sound more odd rather than less. If Osgood's play is so bad that people don't even know if he's good, I guess I'm just a bit bemused by people who are relieved that Howard hasn't quite reached that level of play yet.
I'm not sure what you're so miffed about. This happens all the time with player assessments. Its just like how Helm can be praised for playing like a wrecking ball yet only nabbing a handful of points, yet Zetterberg can be criticized for not being on pace to score 40 goals to start the season.

People have different expectations for Osgood and Howard. No one else seems to think its that strange.

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11-22-2009, 05:12 AM
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And yet he was outstanding in back to backs last Wed and Thurs.
Yes, that's the point. His worst starts don't come after he doesn't play, but after he does. For your assertion to be quantifyable, shouldn't Howard's worst games be the first in a stretch of starts, rather than the last?

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11-22-2009, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
I'm not sure what you're so miffed about.
Who's miffed?

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This happens all the time with player assessments. Its just like how Helm can be praised for playing like a wrecking ball yet only nabbing a handful of points, yet Zetterberg can be criticized for not being on pace to score 40 goals to start the season.
Setting aside for the moment the obvious silliness of comparing forwards who have specific roles to goalies who don't, are you saying that the expectation for Howard all along was for him to be an inferior goalie to Chris Osgood, a goalie that many (most?) people here see as lamentably below average?

Interesting.

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11-22-2009, 01:11 PM
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Yes, that's the point. His worst starts don't come after he doesn't play, but after he does. For your assertion to be quantifyable, shouldn't Howard's worst games be the first in a stretch of starts, rather than the last?
He's still a young goalie. Let's see what he's like in 2 or 3 years.
I've seen three major improvements
1: Rebounds -- he's giving less out. 100 percent better just since the start of the year.
2: Positioning -- He's coming out better, and giving up less to shooters.
3: Lateral movement -- 100 percent better. He used to go side-to-side and never get there. Still needs to get quicker on his feet, but he looks like a capable NHL goalie. At this point, that's a good thing.

Let's see if he gets better.

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