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Comments on the Ducks/What they need.

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Old
04-07-2004, 11:38 PM
  #1
S.S. Giggy
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Comments on the Ducks/What they need.

In my opinion, I think the Ducks need to get older(In Experience). I think that they were just too young of a team and don't have what it takes to play on the level that they should've played this entire season. They need size on the forward lines. Ducks need 2 or 3 guys who are 6-3 and up(excluding enforcers), Rucchin's the only guy who fits the belt and he could barely hit. Ducks also need grit on the 3rd line, they're just too skilled and needs some grit and grinders, Neidermayer and LeClerc fitted that belt but, they were injured practically half the time. These are my comments on the Ducks.

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04-08-2004, 01:07 AM
  #2
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I think the Ducks need better 3rd and 4th Lines. The only guy they got who is a good grinder, gritty player is Severson. Is this pretty close to their lines? :

Sykora-Fedorov-Prospal
Leclerc-Rucchin-Niedermayer (Lupul?)
Lupul-Pahlsson-Chistov
Bylsma-Krog-Severson

Lupul & Chistov can stay but they need somebody else besides Pahlsson, Krog, and Severson. They need like a Turner Stevenson, or a Jay Pandolfo down there, perhaps a Grant Marshall. The defense is fine to me.

Havelid-Ozo
Skoula-Carney
Vishnevski-Salei

So that takes care of the Forwards, and Defense, now all they need is Gerber to start. Maybe package Giguere for a player up front?

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04-08-2004, 01:35 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiesAreLikeWins 2 Us
I think the Ducks need better 3rd and 4th Lines. The only guy they got who is a good grinder, gritty player is Severson. Is this pretty close to their lines? :

Sykora-Fedorov-Prospal
Leclerc-Rucchin-Niedermayer (Lupul?)
Lupul-Pahlsson-Chistov
Bylsma-Krog-Severson

Lupul & Chistov can stay but they need somebody else besides Pahlsson, Krog, and Severson. They need like a Turner Stevenson, or a Jay Pandolfo down there, perhaps a Grant Marshall. The defense is fine to me.

Havelid-Ozo
Skoula-Carney
Vishnevski-Salei

So that takes care of the Forwards, and Defense, now all they need is Gerber to start. Maybe package Giguere for a player up front?
What they need, IMO, is nearly the polar opposite of that. I figure their 3rd and 4th lines are very good, but they need to stock up at top. Here's my projected lines for next year:

?-Fedorov-Lupul
Prospal-Pahlsson-Sykora
Chistov-Rucchin-Niedermayer
Severson-Krog-Holmqvist

Ozolinsh-Vishnevski
Skoula-Carney
?-Salei

Giguere
Bryzgalov

That means two players need to come in, while Schastlivy, McDonald, Havelid, and Gerber are on the way out. Leclerc can go once he's all healed up too.

The first defensive pair is to reward Vish with a great season, and put him with Ozolinsh. That could make for a good offensive d pairing, and not too shabby in their own end either. The second one is almost a given, Skoula, the offensive guy, with Carney, the stay-at-home guy. If Skoula keeps hitting, that'll be a tough pairing to face. The third pairing gets a bit trickier, Salei with whoever the Ducks get. Popovic will likely take the spot unless a trade is made, or Havelid stays.

The 4th line can change at any moment. The Ducks will oviously need an enforcer, who will likely take Holmqvist's spot from time to time. Ryan Getzlaf may impress Babs so much that he'll take any one of those three out. The third pairing is the "grind line" from the run, without injury prone Leclerc. In comes Chistov, who has been hitting quite well lately(take that Eric Weinrich) and can add a scoring touch to the third line. The second pairing should have the most chemistry. Prospal and Sykora probably have the most chemistry on the team, while Pahlsson could find some with that line. Pahlsson will make it steardier defensively, and is poised to make a breakout next season. The first line is the biggest issue. Obviously there is Fedorov as the 1st line C, and he seems to have found chemistry with Joffrey Lupul, who could do well as first line RW. The problem is, I'm not comfortable with Andy Mac or Schastlivy as the first line LW. Both had the spot at times during the season, and didn't do as well as expected. A UFA signing is likely to fill this hole, and if he was willing to come back, Paul Kariya would be the perfect addition.

So, IMO, going out is Havelid, Andy Mac, Schastlivy, and Gerber. Add in Leclerc, too, I guess. Offer away at any of them, and don't be afraid to add picks and prospects from the Ducks side of things to make it a deal for a first line LW. A 6th/7th d-man could be included also.

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04-08-2004, 03:05 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksflytogether
What they need, IMO, is nearly the polar opposite of that. I figure their 3rd and 4th lines are very good, but they need to stock up at top. Here's my projected lines for next year:

?-Fedorov-Lupul
Prospal-Pahlsson-Sykora
Chistov-Rucchin-Niedermayer
Severson-Krog-Holmqvist
I don't see how this solves any of the Ducks' problems. It's no grittier a team than the one from this year, and you can pretty much count on almost zero offense from that 4th line. Which is fine, but I'm not sure that having Lupul and an unknown on the first line will make up for the lack of production on the lower lines. And while I love Pahlsson, if he's your 2nd line center then chances are your offense will suck bigtime. He's not going to all of a sudden pop in 25 goals or anything.

Plus, I'd be real hesitant to dismiss Leclerc so easily, considering we saw just how much the Ducks missed him this year. Bringing back Kariya will only further insure that the Ducks will be even softer. You can't have a team with all perimeter skill players on the scoring lines, and with the only gritty players being guys who don't score. Well, you can, but you'll suck.

The Ducks' most obvious problem this year was that the offense would go dry for long periods. The Niedermayer and Leclerc injuries pretty much wiped out an entire scoring line for Anaheim this year. Then throw in Chistov's tank job, and the lack of anyone really breaking out on the 3rd line, and the Ducks were basically getting by with two fewer scoring lines than they had last season.

They lost 20 goals of total production offensively in one season, despite getting a comparable goal total from their top offensive players (Kariya, Oates, Sykora vs. Fedorov, Prospal, Sykora). The dropoff came from elsewhere, obviously.

Too often, they had at least 4-6 guys in the lineup who you knew weren't much of an offensive threat. Absolutely, the lack of 3rd and 4th line production KILLED Anaheim. The only way the top lines could have made up for that is if Fedorov, Sykora, and Prospal combined for about 100 goals. Which wasn't going to happen. You can't have half your roster as offensive dead weight; they don't have to be stars, but they can't all be single digit goal scorers either.

I think you're kidding yourself when you say the Ducks' 3rd and 4th lines were very good. Pahlsson had a great season for a guy who isn't an offensive player, Lupul did some good things for a rookie, but that was it. Chistov dropped 10 goals in productivity, McDonald scored more in half a season last year than he did in a full season this year, and there was no Steve Thomas coming in and giving the Ducks 10 goals in 12 games. Right there, you've got your 20 missing goals, easily.

And this doesn't even begin to address the 20 extra goals they gave up, mostly through defensive gaffes that they hadn't been making for the prior couple years.

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04-08-2004, 10:59 PM
  #5
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The 4th line does not get much ice time. In the ice time we see them get, a line that includes Holmqvist, Krog, and Severson will score right at the amount we need them to.

The problem this season was grittiness, but bigger issues were lack of scoring and turnovers from the point. Havelid gone from the point nearly solves one problem, and adding a first line LW to bump down Prospal to line two nearly solves another.

Lupul and an unknown(good LW) should easily make up for lack of offense from line 4. A good lw should rack up points well, and unless Lupul pulls a Chistov, he's poised for a breakout. Also, while Pahlsson had the "hands of stone" stigma at the start of the season, he scored quite a bit near the end of the year. Putting him with Prospal and Sykora could see him find that offensive game he's been lacking. Also, there's no doubt he'll try to develop his O in the offseason.

While Jerky is gritty, he's also injury prone. If a grittier Chistov does his job well, he's usless to the team. We already have a Leclerc anyway, in the faster Rob Niedermayer. We don't need two if Chistov can fill the role well.

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04-09-2004, 08:38 AM
  #6
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BTW, the D's pretty good except for the fact of Havelid. Is there any chance for Quenville?

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04-09-2004, 08:51 AM
  #7
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The Ducks should be playing Lupul and Chistov on the top two lines. Stick them with Fedorov and Rucchin. If you want them to develope you have to give them the minutes.

Sykora - Fedorov - Lupul
Prospal - Rucchin - Chistov
Leclerc - Pahlsson - Neidermayer

The third line gives you an awesome checking line. The only problem is there isnt that much grit, if any, on the top two lines.

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04-09-2004, 11:13 AM
  #8
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What they need in my opinion are experienced 4th liners, that play hard every time they hit the ice. Some examples could be Begin, Wilm, DiMaio etc.

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04-09-2004, 11:58 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksflytogether
The 4th line does not get much ice time. In the ice time we see them get, a line that includes Holmqvist, Krog, and Severson will score right at the amount we need them to.
Krog scored at a significantly lower rate than he did last season, which hurt the 4th line. You may not expect much from your 4th line offensively, but when you get as little as the Ducks do from them you'd better get even more from the other lines. But add in a 3rd line that produced barely more than the 4th line, and you've put a massive burden on the top 2 lines. Now take away 2/3 of the 2nd line due to injury, and you've got a popgun offense.

The difference in offense last year was the Ducks had a reasonable level of scoring from every line, as opposed to this year where they had a lot of dead weight. I mean, Prospal-Fedorov-Sykora actually slightly outproduced Kariya-Oates-Sykora in goals, yet the Ducks' overall offense went downhill by 20 goals... that tells you all you need to know.

Quote:
The problem this season was grittiness, but bigger issues were lack of scoring and turnovers from the point. Havelid gone from the point nearly solves one problem, and adding a first line LW to bump down Prospal to line two nearly solves another.
But the scoring rate for the top players on the Ducks wasn't the problem! They scored at a very reasonable 1st line rate. What they didn't do was score at a rate that could compensate for an injured 2nd line and two lower lines that were below average offensively.

Remember, McDonald had 10 goals the previous year in half a season mostly on the 3rd line. Then Thomas came in and gave them 10 more in the 2nd half. Between those two, that's almost like they had a 20 goal scorer on the 3rd line. Chistov popped in a dozen or so, and even without factoring in guys like Pahlsson you're talking over 30 goals of production last year that they didn't get this year. They didn't even come close getting that much out of their 3rd line, in fact ... they had a bunch of single digit goal scorers there.

Besides, the lack of scoring is tied to the lack of grit on the top 3 lines. You're not going to score much no matter how skilled you are if you don't have any guys who can get ugly goals. Not in today's NHL. A gritty, net-crashing 15 goal scorer won't just bring his goals, he'll collapse the defenses and give all those Anaheim perimeter players more room to do their thing.

Quote:
Lupul and an unknown(good LW) should easily make up for lack of offense from line 4.
That's bad strategy ... it's still way too early to be counting on Lupul to produce at a first line rate. If he blossoms, then great, but when you go into a season counting on something like that to happen, more often than not your season will suck.

Quote:
Also, while Pahlsson had the "hands of stone" stigma at the start of the season, he scored quite a bit near the end of the year. Putting him with Prospal and Sykora could see him find that offensive game he's been lacking. Also, there's no doubt he'll try to develop his O in the offseason.
Even if he improves, it's a real stretch to consider him a legitimate 2nd line center. At least on any team with playoff hopes. He's just not that kind of player, which is perfectly fine because he's a heck of a checker on a 3rd or 4th line. His limited scoring would be ideal for that role, but as a 2nd line center he'd have to be producing around 50-60 points a year. There's about as much chance of that as there is of Leclerc staying healthy for a full season.

Quote:
While Jerky is gritty, he's also injury prone. If a grittier Chistov does his job well, he's usless to the team. We already have a Leclerc anyway, in the faster Rob Niedermayer. We don't need two if Chistov can fill the role well.
You're kidding, right? The Ducks are so soft precisely because they ONLY have those one or two players in the lineup who can play on a scoring line and have grit. You act like the had enough grit, but they actually need more power forwards, not less.

And while I think Chistov's tougher than people realize, no one's going to confuse him with a power forward. I'm sorry, but if your #2, "power forward," is 5'10" and 190 lbs, you've got a serious problem.

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04-09-2004, 12:04 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S.S. Giggy
BTW, the D's pretty good except for the fact of Havelid. Is there any chance for Quenville?
To fill in for Havelid? I dunno, seems like a stretch to me.

No chance of him coming to Anaheim, I don't see Babcock getting dismissed unless there is a huge disaster to begin next season.

I'm of the opinion that the Ducks sorely lack two items. A number 1 defenseman. I love Carney, and I like Ozolinsh. At this point in their careers however, I feel they are both better suited for a 2nd and 3rd dman role. Its not easy to acquire that workhorse number one guy, and failing that certainly they should go get a decent middle-level dman to provide some depth. They may be alright that way. However, getting the big, 28 minutes per game d-man to play in all situations would slide all the guys down a notch, and really anchor the blueline.

Similarly, rather than bolstering the third and fourth lines, I feel that the Ducks could use a second line center. I love Rucchin, and I always like the job he does. I think he's best suited anchoring a checking line. I wouldn't really call this a third line, because I envision this line being as important as any, and getting near as much ice time as any. But, if a line of Rucchin, Leclerc, and Niedermayer was viewed primarily as a checking line and if the other two main lines were strong enough offensively to shoulder the main load, the Ducks would be better off. Obviously given the softness of the top-six presently, it'd be desireable if this center were a bigger, tougher sort.

Prospal-Fedorov-Lupul
Chistov-new big center-Sykora
Niedermayer-Rucchin-Leclerc
Krog-Pahlsson-Schastlivy

Obviously the 4th line isn't your typical fourth line, and I probably wouldn't want to go forward with it that way. I like Pahlsson and Krog. Schastlivy I'm not too sure about just yet, but he's there for depth. I don't even know who's availiable, truthfully...so its difficult for me to estimate how attainable this second line center is. This is just ideally what I'd like to see (I'd also be more confident going in not relying on Chistov for offense, because I want to see him given patience and time to round into form. But, we cant always get what we want.

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Old
04-09-2004, 05:30 PM
  #11
mmbt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenabnrmal
But, we cant always get what we want.
But if you try sometimes well you might find,
You get what you need ...

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04-09-2004, 09:36 PM
  #12
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The Ducks need a healthy Leclerc. He and Nieds are critical for our forward depth. Here are my projected lines for next season:

____? Fedorov Niedermayer
Prospal Rucchin Sykora
Leclerc Pahlsson Lupul
____? McDonald Getzlaf

Carney ______?
Ozolinsh Salei
Vishnevski Skoula

Giguere
Bryzgalov

If anything, the Ducks need to make a play for Scott Niedermayer if he becomes UFA. The defense killed us the first half of the season with Carney recoving from a broken foot.

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Old
04-09-2004, 10:15 PM
  #13
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The main issue I have with all these projections is that Bryan Murray has already clearly stated that there will be changes, for harder working grinding team type players. Which means a few if not many of the names you have on this list won't be back next season.

Guys like Havelid, Sykora, McDonald, Schatslivy, Krog, Prospal. I can easily see being dealt away this summer or just not offered a contract.

I agree with Ken's look of the team much more than I do Jerky's.

Jerky having Getzlaf on the 4th line is a complete waste.

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04-10-2004, 12:40 AM
  #14
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This lineup is working great for me in NHL 2004:

Sykora-Fedorov-Prospal
Williams-Rucchin-Chistov
McDonald-Niedermayer-Lundmark
Laraque-Zholtok-Smirnov

Ozolinsh-Carney
Bouwmeetser-Havelid
Vishnevski-Sauer

Giguere-Oullet

Maybe that will work in real-life ?

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04-10-2004, 02:30 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_dub
This lineup is working great for me in NHL 2004:

Sykora-Fedorov-Prospal
Williams-Rucchin-Chistov
McDonald-Niedermayer-Lundmark
Laraque-Zholtok-Smirnov

Ozolinsh-Carney
Bouwmeetser-Havelid
Vishnevski-Sauer

Giguere-Oullet

Maybe that will work in real-life ?
so how do we get Bouwmeester then?

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04-11-2004, 10:57 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_dub
This lineup is working great for me in NHL 2004:

Sykora-Fedorov-Prospal
Williams-Rucchin-Chistov
McDonald-Niedermayer-Lundmark
Laraque-Zholtok-Smirnov

Ozolinsh-Carney
Bouwmeetser-Havelid
Vishnevski-Sauer

Giguere-Oullet

Maybe that will work in real-life ?
This line-ups working great for me on NHL 2004:

Kariya-Fedorov-St.Louis
Heatley-Lemieux-Morrow
Leclerc-Draper-Richards
Chistov-McDonald-Laraques

Niedermayer-Ozolinsh
Rafalski-Salo
Kaberle(F)-Regehr

Giguere
Leclaire



Seriously, Chistov maybe should be given a shot on line #1. I'd like to see him with Fedorov, and maybe Lupul too. That could make for serious scoring from Lupul's side of things. Prospal and Sykora should stay together on a line, but I'm not sold on Rucchin. Pahlsson is a chance I'd like to see taken as 2nd line center, but it likely won't happen. Everyone needs the shot if they're going to break out offensively, and maybe for just a couple games in the preseason, but he needs that type of chance. If not, give Mac a shot at line 2, or trade/sign for that 2nd line center. Babs has got to let Rucchin know his job as 2nd line C is not secure. It did wonders for Vishnevski, and it could work for him.

Goals for offseason:

-Convince Louie Lams that Scott Niedermayer isn't worth 70 cents
-While BM's at it, convince him that Havelid is the future Paul Coffey
-Tell JFJ that they'll trade Gerber and a 3rd/2nd for Coliacavo, and then raise the price to straight up for Coliacavo once Belfour retires

Seriously...
-Do whatever it takes to pry Scott Niedermayer out of the swamp
-Trade(not over-pay) for Fedor Fedorov(a happier Sergei is a better Sergei)
-Get Ryan Smyth(now you can overpay) in a Ducks uni

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04-12-2004, 12:26 AM
  #17
mmbt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksflytogether
Seriously, Chistov maybe should be given a shot on line #1.
I just don't understand this. Why should he be GIVEN anything? He should have to earn it. Hey, I like Chistov, but you don't promote a guy to the first line when he fails to produce all year long. It's not as if Chistov didn't get PLENTY of opportunity on the PP earlier this year, and he was even playing with the Ducks' more proven scorers for a while and he still couldn't find the back of the net.

If he has a great camp, then we'll talk. Until then, he'll have to earn an NHL job in camp, nevermind get handed a 1st line gig.

Quote:
Everyone needs the shot if they're going to break out offensively, and maybe for just a couple games in the preseason, but he needs that type of chance.
That's just not how it works. This is the big leagues, you earn a shot at a scoring role by putting up points despite a smaller role. It's not a charity where you try to make struggling players feel good. The only time completely unproven offensive guys are put in big offensive roles are when a team sucks.

You don't stick a kid with 2 goals on your first line or a checking center as your 2nd line pivot, just like you don't make a .200 hitting prospect into your cleanup hitter, a kid with shaky confidence your closer, or a scatterarmed rookie your starting QB. Not unless you're more concerned with developing players than trying to win games.

Quote:
Seriously...
-Do whatever it takes to pry Scott Niedermayer out of the swamp
Very unlikely. Lou may be a cheap, vindictive ******* sometimes, but he's still the best GM in the league; he's not stupid, he knows that he still needs Niedermayer.

Quote:
-Get Ryan Smyth(now you can overpay) in a Ducks uni
Again, unlikely. At least not without creating as many holes as you plug.

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04-12-2004, 01:14 AM
  #18
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They need to move Martin Gerber... immediately.

To Toronto.

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04-12-2004, 07:34 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbt
I just don't understand this. Why should he be GIVEN anything? He should have to earn it. Hey, I like Chistov, but you don't promote a guy to the first line when he fails to produce all year long. It's not as if Chistov didn't get PLENTY of opportunity on the PP earlier this year, and he was even playing with the Ducks' more proven scorers for a while and he still couldn't find the back of the net.

If he has a great camp, then we'll talk. Until then, he'll have to earn an NHL job in camp, nevermind get handed a 1st line gig.



That's just not how it works. This is the big leagues, you earn a shot at a scoring role by putting up points despite a smaller role. It's not a charity where you try to make struggling players feel good. The only time completely unproven offensive guys are put in big offensive roles are when a team sucks.

You don't stick a kid with 2 goals on your first line or a checking center as your 2nd line pivot, just like you don't make a .200 hitting prospect into your cleanup hitter, a kid with shaky confidence your closer, or a scatterarmed rookie your starting QB. Not unless you're more concerned with developing players than trying to win games.



Very unlikely. Lou may be a cheap, vindictive ******* sometimes, but he's still the best GM in the league; he's not stupid, he knows that he still needs Niedermayer.



Again, unlikely. At least not without creating as many holes as you plug.

Smyth and Niedermayer are both so unlikely. Unfortunately they're both exactly what this teams needs.

Otherwise, I don't necessarily agree with your assessment of Chistov. I think you're right, in MOST cases players don't get handed the first line job. However, I think we often get too caught up in the labelling of lines, 1st to 4th. Its not so much that playing on the first line should be considered a promotion, its just wherever the players fit in best. The only real promotions are the ones from Cincy to Anaheim. With Chistov, if he gets a promotion from Cincy to Anaheim, it had better be to play on one of the top two lines. Its simply where the player fits in best. Especially on this team, a job on the checking line isn't necessarily a demotion for some guys, because often times its the team's most important line and gets a good deal of ice time. In most cases players don't get placed on lines to boost confidence or develop skills, but I think at the beginning of the season its not entirely surprising to see a guy who hasn't performed before at this level, be placed upon a line due to his skill set. Chistov obviously has a first line skill set, and if he's ever to succeed in the NHL, this is where it must be done. Nothing should necessarily be handed to him. He has to come in to fall and have a very good camp. But, should that happen, I tend to think he should be played with one of the offensive lines. Not simply because he deserves to have a first line job handed to him, but because thats simply where he fits in best, and where he's most likely to help the team the most.

Just a slightly different way of looking at it really.

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04-12-2004, 06:18 PM
  #20
Hussar
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They need to move Martin Gerber... immediately.

To Toronto.
give em nolan .... murray LOVES nolan

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04-12-2004, 07:20 PM
  #21
chris_dub
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Originally Posted by McDonald19
so how do we get Bouwmeester then?
I think I dealt Salei & a pick for him. He's been one of my best players ever since.

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Old
04-12-2004, 11:00 PM
  #22
Gibsons Finest
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That's just not how it works. This is the big leagues, you earn a shot at a scoring role by putting up points despite a smaller role. It's not a charity where you try to make struggling players feel good. The only time completely unproven offensive guys are put in big offensive roles are when a team sucks.

You don't stick a kid with 2 goals on your first line or a checking center as your 2nd line pivot, just like you don't make a .200 hitting prospect into your cleanup hitter, a kid with shaky confidence your closer, or a scatterarmed rookie your starting QB. Not unless you're more concerned with developing players than trying to win games.
Pahlsson had 8 goals this year, which is not much, but scored like 6 of them in the last quarter of the season. IMO, he was our best player all season, and is primed for a breakout. He also played well with Pete and Vinny earlier this year, so maybe they could do well again.

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04-16-2004, 12:19 PM
  #23
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I think that everyone is underestimating the possibility of Getzlaf breaking into the line-up next year. Getz had an absolute MONSTER (Look at me, I'm Pierre McGuire! ) season with the Hitmen of the Dub this year and was the best player on the "Goof Troop" line at the WJC's IMO because he did everything that Burns and Carter did and other things that they couldn't/wouldn't. He was the glue of that line and was deceptively un-noticeable (i.e. his presence was over-shadowed by the hype that Carter and Burns received).

Questions last year about his skating let him slide to the Ducks. Remember that he was a top ten pick on many draft lists (I had him at 9), and only his skating was questioned, and that has quite obviously been answered this year with another question: What skating problems? 19th overall was one of best steals of the draft, behind only Dion Phaneuf but ahead of Zach Parise and Eric Fehr IMO.

If he has a camp that even closely resembles last year, he'll start the season on the third line at the very least. I don't think that there's anything wrong with a Pahlsson-Getzlaf-"Special Nieds" line at all. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he cracked the top-six by season's end next year.

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