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Old
11-17-2009, 05:23 PM
  #76
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the team made its biggest mistake when it lost igor ulanov and chad kilger! i say bring them out of retirement.

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Old
11-17-2009, 05:30 PM
  #77
VincenzosOil
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
Nowhere it my post did I deny that SOME of the problems were not attributable to Mac-t?
The OP should be commended for a provocative thread title. Another new spin on the love me, love me not MacT saga.

Just curious, what problems exactly are attributable to MacT? We can certainly quantify and substantiate Lowes missteps to an extent but what of MacT?

And the disclaimer: Imo, MacT was a good coach but this team needed a change. Quinn and Renney both have excellent coaching pedigrees but need more time to turn things around.

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11-17-2009, 05:55 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by oil4life34 View Post
Don't give the injury excuses. Lubo missed how many games last season, Souray the season before? The one year that Lowe gave MacT a decent team to work with 05-06 we all know what hapened.
Agreed.

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Old
11-17-2009, 06:00 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VincenzosOil View Post
The OP should be commended for a provocative thread title. Another new spin on the love me, love me not MacT saga.

Just curious, what problems exactly are attributable to MacT? We can certainly quantify and substantiate Lowes missteps to an extent but what of MacT?

And the disclaimer: Imo, MacT was a good coach but this team needed a change. Quinn and Renney both have excellent coaching pedigrees but need more time to turn things around.
I agree with your disclaimer by the way.

How bout the misuse of Penner and his lack of confidence. Even Mactavish on air admitted he had some of the blame on this one but not all of it. That is one example, I am sure that the people that really hate Mactavish could give more examples.

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Old
11-17-2009, 06:09 PM
  #80
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Penner wouldn't be the player he is today if it wasn't for his time spent under MacT. I think Quinn has MUCH less to do with his current success than MacT does. (Not that I'm giving MacT credit for a coaching job well done, just saying that his influence most likely what the catalyst for this resurgence).

If Quinn was Renney, Crawford, Daum, or George W. Bush I think we would have seen the same start to the year from Penner.

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Old
11-17-2009, 06:13 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil4life34 View Post
Don't give the injury excuses. Lubo missed how many games last season, Souray the season before? The one year that Lowe gave MacT a decent team to work with 05-06 we all know what hapened.
Why are you not supposed to give the injury excuse when it happens? Thats such a silly thing to say and shows that you dont want to discuss things realistically but instead just want to vent.

Yes, Visnovsky was hurt last year, but they have a relatively healthy team for the first half of the season and still went no-where. They were healthy when they were booed of the ice after losing at home to the lowly Leafs. They were healthy when they were booed off the ice after getting blown out against the Sabres. They were performing poorly before they lost Vish, so the injury excuse didnt fly last year since they werent playing much better when they were healthy.

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Old
11-17-2009, 06:20 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by oil4life34 View Post
MacT Haters Looking Smart
Oh yeah, and Haters never look smart.

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Old
11-17-2009, 06:33 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Cawz View Post
Why are you not supposed to give the injury excuse when it happens? Thats such a silly thing to say and shows that you dont want to discuss things realistically but instead just want to vent.

Yes, Visnovsky was hurt last year, but they have a relatively healthy team for the first half of the season and still went no-where. They were healthy when they were booed of the ice after losing at home to the lowly Leafs. They were healthy when they were booed off the ice after getting blown out against the Sabres. They were performing poorly before they lost Vish, so the injury excuse didnt fly last year since they werent playing much better when they were healthy.

And considering they have roughly the same cast of characters this go round, what you're saying is that regardless of injury or sickness, this team sucks, and more than just a coaching change is needed. We need roster changes. I agree with you.

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Old
11-17-2009, 06:46 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphahelix View Post
Penner wouldn't be the player he is today if it wasn't for his time spent under MacT. I think Quinn has MUCH less to do with his current success than MacT does. (Not that I'm giving MacT credit for a coaching job well done, just saying that his influence most likely what the catalyst for this resurgence).

If Quinn was Renney, Crawford, Daum, or George W. Bush I think we would have seen the same start to the year from Penner.
You've got to be kidding. MacT repeatedly throwing him (and only him) under the bus publicly and benching him for sticking up for teammates at times throughout the year was crucial to his development, and now we're reaping the rewards...for sure. Now I've heard everything.

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Old
11-17-2009, 06:49 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
I agree with your disclaimer by the way.

How bout the misuse of Penner and his lack of confidence. Even Mactavish on air admitted he had some of the blame on this one but not all of it. That is one example, I am sure that the people that really hate Mactavish could give more examples.
Penners performance is all on Penner.

If Penner would have showed the last two years what would have been the result?

Bah, I'm sick and tired of petulant millionaire hockey players.

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Old
11-17-2009, 06:52 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VincenzosOil View Post
And the disclaimer: Imo, MacT was a good coach but this team needed a change. Quinn and Renney both have excellent coaching pedigrees but need more time to turn things around.
I agree with this as long as it means roster changes. This group of players (especially the forwards) are undersized, lack grit, lack high end talent and play very poorly without the puck. Quinn/Renney may be able to help with the last issue but their hands are tied on everything else.

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Old
11-17-2009, 06:55 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
You've got to be kidding. MacT repeatedly throwing him (and only him) under the bus publicly and benching him for sticking up for teammates at times throughout the year was crucial to his development, and now we're reaping the rewards...for sure. Now I've heard everything.
Get a grip. Penner was fat, out of shape & played like a lazy dog at times. Mact called him on it at times, AS VIRTIUALLY EVERY COACH WOuLD DO.
Like, did you just start following hockey?

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Old
11-17-2009, 06:57 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by jet228 View Post
Maybe I'm just a blind, Kool Aid drinking idiot that loves punishment but I still hold out hope for this season.

But I guess that seperates me from many on here. I prefer to see things in life in a positive light, even when they aren't looking great.

Some of you should try it. You might actually enjoy your life.
I agree. If I stay away from these boards for a few days, I start to think the oilers are much better team, and much more enjoyable to watch than the consensus here. After I've been on here for a few days all I can see is Horcoff sucking, Hemsky spinning in circles, and Tom Gilbert doing his best to never, ever tie up the opposing forward's stick.

I think 5000 sets of eyes see a lot of mistakes. Compounding this is that about 4860 of those sets of eyes (including my own) might not be connected to sophisticated enough hockey fans to actually see what the team and players are doing right. I think it's much easier to see Horcoff blatantly fanning on a perfect one timer than it is to catch Cogliano actually setting up in the right place in the defensive zone. And a lot more fun to talk about.

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Old
11-17-2009, 07:01 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
And considering they have roughly the same cast of characters this go round, what you're saying is that regardless of injury or sickness, this team sucks, and more than just a coaching change is needed. We need roster changes. I agree with you.
No, I'm saying that the coaching change has looked like it has improved the team. And I'm not even blaming the old coach. It was just pretty obvious that the team was not responding to him anymore. It happens, unfortunately

As said by many others, this same team looked a lot better than last year before they ran into injury and sickness problems. Of course they are not perfect and could use some personnel changes, but this team can make the playoffs if they can stay healthy. Thats not a stretch by any means.

And they should have played better last year as well, but they didnt. A team that challenges for the playoffs like they did last year should not get booed off home-ice as many times as they did. That shows that a team is underperforming, and that goes on the coach, even if its not 100% his fault.

This year, Quinn is not without fault (Penner in the shootout last night for example), but the team is responding much better to him so far. If anyone contests that, they should go back and read some of the praise he got during the team's hot start. We will have to see how the team responds now that they are at home and playing the Avs on the 2nd half of a back-to-back tomorrow night. Its all about how a team responds. They played a good game last night with a key member of the team back from injury. They have to build on that.

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Old
11-17-2009, 07:10 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy View Post
Get a grip. Penner was fat, out of shape & played like a lazy dog at times. Mact called him on it at times, AS VIRTIUALLY EVERY COACH WOuLD DO.
Like, did you just start following hockey?
And despite this, Penner still provided more value to this team over the last two years than, oh lets say, Shawn Horcoff and Ethan Moreau, MacT's two favorite sons. Why weren't those two stiffs thrown under the bus as well? I didn't disagree with MacT calling Penner out, the problem is that several other players should have been called out as well, instead of given a free pass because they were "his boys".

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Old
11-17-2009, 07:14 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
And despite this, Penner still provided more value to this team over the last two years than, oh lets say, Shawn Horcoff and Ethan Moreau, MacT's two favorite sons. Why weren't those two stiffs thrown under the bus as well? I didn't disagree with MacT calling Penner out, the problem is that several other players should have been called out as well, instead of given a free pass because they were "his boys".
Drunk much?

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Old
11-17-2009, 07:20 PM
  #92
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Drunk much?
Wow... ZING!

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Old
11-17-2009, 07:26 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by AM View Post
Drunk much?
Not sure I understand this. Since he arrived in Edmonton, which Oiler player has scored more goals than Dustin Penner? The answer is none. Despite the crap the fans dumped on him here, only Ales Hemsky scored more goals over the span of the two seasons prior to this one. I'm glad I never jumped on the Penner hating bandwagon, I said all along the MacT was the main reason for his struggles. I've been proven at least partially right up to this point. To suggest that Penner was any worse than the two aforementioned "MacT's boys" is laughable.

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Old
11-17-2009, 07:56 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
Since he arrived in Edmonton, which Oiler player has scored more goals than Dustin Penner?
This sounds like a trick question. Is it Dustin Penner?

Quote:
Despite the crap the fans dumped on him here, only Ales Hemsky scored more goals over the span of the two seasons prior to this one.
Yeah, ok. Penner was a goal scoring machine. An overweight, unmotivated enigma of a goal scoring machine.

Quote:
I'm glad I never jumped on the Penner hating bandwagon, I said all along the MacT was the main reason for his struggles.
I'm glad you called this and now it appears you have been vindicated by Penners' play so far this year and are free to gloat. But remind me again who was the coach of the Oilers top goal scorer the past 2 seasons?


Quote:
I've been proven at least partially right up to this point. To suggest that Penner was any worse than the two aforementioned "MacT's boys" is laughable.
Moreau I agree with. MacT cut him too much slack. Horcoff is a different story. There is a reason why MacT played Horcoff so much and it had nothing to do with favoritism. I am curious how much TOI time Quinn is giving Horcoff?

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Old
11-17-2009, 08:04 PM
  #95
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The real culprit? At this point, it's the injuries.

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Old
11-17-2009, 08:05 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AM View Post
Penners performance is all on Penner.

If Penner would have showed the last two years what would have been the result?

Bah, I'm sick and tired of petulant millionaire hockey players.
So Mact was wrong when he cited himself as responsible? That doesn't mean he was all at fault. Penner also deserves responsibilty for his past play.

Lets be clear. I am not a MacT hater but to pretend he bared NO responsibility last year is going to far the other way.

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11-17-2009, 08:17 PM
  #97
VincenzosOil
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
So Mact was wrong when he cited himself as responsible? That doesn't mean he was all at fault. Penner also deserves responsibilty for his past play.

Lets be clear. I am not a MacT hater but to pretend he bared NO responsibility last year is going to far the other way.
Yep, there is no middle ground with some. It's all on MacT, and the players bear no responsibility for their questionable play. But I guess it doesn't work the other way. It seems the only thing the players are responsible for is their fine play. Nothing on MacT.

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Old
11-17-2009, 08:26 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by oil4life34 View Post
Don't give the injury excuses. Lubo missed how many games last season, Souray the season before? The one year that Lowe gave MacT a decent team to work with 05-06 we all know what hapened.
Although I'm not happy with the team right now, how are they suppose to be under any coach when they were hit as bad as they were with the flu? Maybe the injuries aren't the excuse but the flu sure has been. If they fail on this home stand I will officially believe that the players are where the problem lies. Until then, I'm still loving the new system when it's played right and Mac t's boring defensive system was not welcome here any longer. I mean how long did you want him here as the coach? 10 years...15 years? It happens, coach's move on in every franchise and he was here far longer than he would have been on most teams. obviously any real fan of this team knows that Lowe screwed this team for years to come, no new news here.

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Old
11-17-2009, 08:28 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Im not saying that there isnt roster problems. Do you pay attention around here? There are two facts here.

1. Mact was balls as a coach.

2. Drawing conclusions based on the last ten games is balls.
Yup!

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Old
11-17-2009, 08:43 PM
  #100
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Flu or no flu... Injuries or no injuries... The team is competing night in and night out.

That's a positive step.

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