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Old
11-17-2009, 08:45 PM
  #101
Oilerdiehard
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Originally Posted by oil4life34 View Post
Don't give the injury excuses. Lubo missed how many games last season, Souray the season before? The one year that Lowe gave MacT a decent team to work with 05-06 we all know what hapened.
Which part of what happened that season?

The part where it started off near the beginning with a 7 game losing streak? Maybe the part where we played awful down the stretch with the post season in the balance and were out of a playoff spot. Then the Canucks suddenly imploded at the end of the season and handed us their playoff spot? I guess you probably mean the part where the team suddenly caught lightning in a bottle and had a nice playoff run? Same team and that run very nearly never happened.

For the record I think both the players and coaching staff deserve responsibility for our record. They changed out a lot of players and you knew when the same sort of thing kept on coming season after season. It would eventually lead to a coaching staff change when that staff had been in place near a decade.

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11-17-2009, 08:57 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
So Mact was wrong when he cited himself as responsible? That doesn't mean he was all at fault. Penner also deserves responsibilty for his past play.

Lets be clear. I am not a MacT hater but to pretend he bared NO responsibility last year is going to far the other way.
Sure MacT was in the relationship and hes the big man with the big shoulders admitting he could have done a better job.

Heres a news flash for you, smart people always know they could have done a better job when they fail.

Its the stupid ones who dont realize theyve failed and go on like it was on somebody else.

Lets be clear here, Mact was the coach and Penner was the player. MacT gave Penner the opportunity to succeed, Penner just couldnt handle the pressure.

On that vein, I remeber what Mact said, he said he would take his share of the blame.

Personally I would divide it 90-10.

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11-17-2009, 09:09 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by AM View Post
Sure MacT was in the relationship and hes the big man with the big shoulders admitting he could have done a better job.

Heres a news flash for you, smart people always know they could have done a better job when they fail.

Its the stupid ones who dont realize theyve failed and go on like it was on somebody else.

Lets be clear here, Mact was the coach and Penner was the player. MacT gave Penner the opportunity to succeed, Penner just couldnt handle the pressure.

On that vein, I remeber what Mact said, he said he would take his share of the blame.

Personally I would divide it 90-10.
this is actually a fine turn of events. Two years ago I am labelled a macpologist and now I am defending Mactavish having some responsibility for their bad record

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11-17-2009, 09:16 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
this is actually a fine turn of events. Two years ago I am labelled a macpologist and now I am defending Mactavish having some responsibility for their bad record
I actually wasnt implying anything about you.

I actually liked Penners game last year, in as much as he did whatever he did on the ice.

But his preparation was poor and likely as his coach that can fill up your cup pretty quickly when the ass jack is getting you fired.

Just look what he did this year with better preparation.


Last edited by AM: 11-17-2009 at 09:24 PM.
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11-17-2009, 09:18 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Gone View Post
Hey for the last 3 years or more, there have been a lot of people here stating that KLowe was the problem not MacT. He has lost far more trades than he has won, he has signed way more bad contracts than good, and he has made more poor draft decisions than good.
I was backing up MacT on here until the last 20 games last season, I finally knew then that something was amiss with his leadership. I went through a lot of MacT arguments, I still feel he is a good coach his time had come here though.

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If you call the original Pronger signing and Penner his two shinning moments, I say even a "Blind Squirrel" will find a nut now and then.
He did fleece the Blues but what goes around comes around.

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The problem with the organization is they did not recognize who to blame. Rather than fire KLowe they rewarded him with a promotion. Hence, his poison is still in the system. Until he is gone, the organization will not have rid itself of one of its biggest anchors'.
I talk with my mother about K Lowe every time she calls, don't understand why the guy is still around. My Mother adores the guy, she feels an obligation to the guy because he came in the league the same time the team did, she always asks everyone she sees - do you know who scored the first Oiler goal in team history? she pauses briefly and then yells Kevinnnnnnn Lowwwwwwwww. freaking hilarious... I agree though, the guy has got to go.

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Again, several people have called this for the last 3 years. But a lot of the lightbulbs in the crowd, who love to sip the Oiler Kool-Aid, would just bash away at those like DSF who laid out nothing but common sense.
under appreciated poster is all, there are actually a few more under appreciated posters on here too

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What are we destined for, hmmmm, if the past 25 years have anything to say, i can guarantee this team will compete for 7th to 12th spot for the next 25. Rarely better and rarely worse. That is the sorry future of this team.
Well this last bit may be going a little far..

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11-17-2009, 09:21 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by theranfordflop View Post
Flu or no flu... Injuries or no injuries... The team is competing night in and night out.

That's a positive step.
I don't agree with this

and even if they did compete night in and night out....they're still losing....whats that say about the talent level?

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11-17-2009, 09:28 PM
  #107
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I see lots of positives this year.

I am looking forward to what happens and not gloomy about it at all.

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11-17-2009, 09:36 PM
  #108
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I don't agree with this

and even if they did compete night in and night out....they're still losing....whats that say about the talent level?
We have to remember just how horribly this team played last season. Last season it wasn't just mistakes. It was laziness, apathy, fear.

This year so far, the only thing holding these guys back is the mistakes. The last thing you can say about these guys is that they're lazy.

As I've said since the beginning, this team cannot be measured in wins and losses, not with where they're at right now. They need to be judged by how they perform on the ice. And right now they're putting it all out there. The skill will come as they get more comfortable with the effort it takes to win (something they never even thought to put out last year).

Now, I'm not saying a move or two wouldn't be nice. But even then, it'll take a while before this team develops a winning attitude.

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11-17-2009, 09:39 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Oilerdiehard View Post
Which part of what happened that season?

The part where it started off near the beginning with a 7 game losing streak? Maybe the part where we played awful down the stretch with the post season in the balance and were out of a playoff spot. Then the Canucks suddenly imploded at the end of the season and handed us their playoff spot? I guess you probably mean the part where the team suddenly caught lightning in a bottle and had a nice playoff run? Same team and that run very nearly never happened.

For the record I think both the players and coaching staff deserve responsibility for our record. They changed out a lot of players and you knew when the same sort of thing kept on coming season after season. It would eventually lead to a coaching staff change when that staff had been in place near a decade.
The Oilers made the playoffs that year and that's the bottom line. Should there be an asterisk beside the Oilers surge that year -> Would not have made playoffs if not for Canucks implosion?

It seems absurd to me to read and hear that about the Oilers run. A twisted sort of logic like we as Oiler fans should be upset at the Canucks for allowing us to get within 1 game of the Stanley Cup and then the ensuing 3 years of shame.

You're right though about responsibility.Both coaches and players share responsibility for the mess that followed post 06.

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11-17-2009, 09:45 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by oil4life34 View Post
u think Horcoff being a 7 million dollar man isn't Lowes fault. How bout all the assets remaining from Pronger and Smyth?
how about stealing penner and signing hemmer to ridiculously good contracts?

how about signing souray and lubo

lowe did everything he could to help this team, including almost landing vanek, trying to sign a legit #1 centre....

the current group was headed in the rioght direction before the flu injuries etc...

i think before the season ends you will see this team show some serious promise

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11-17-2009, 09:51 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Oilerdiehard View Post
Which part of what happened that season?

The part where it started off near the beginning with a 7 game losing streak? Maybe the part where we played awful down the stretch with the post season in the balance and were out of a playoff spot. Then the Canucks suddenly imploded at the end of the season and handed us their playoff spot? I guess you probably mean the part where the team suddenly caught lightning in a bottle and had a nice playoff run? Same team and that run very nearly never happened.

For the record I think both the players and coaching staff deserve responsibility for our record. They changed out a lot of players and you knew when the same sort of thing kept on coming season after season. It would eventually lead to a coaching staff change when that staff had been in place near a decade.
lightning in a bottle??????? The trades Lowe made at the deadline is what made that team a playoff team. Had MacT had that roster the whole season we wouldn't be talking bout the nucks handing us a playoff spot. Remember the three headed goalie monster all bloody season???? add roloson spacek samsonov and tarnstrom for 60+ games in 05-06. What would their record have been?? Probably better than 8th place.

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11-17-2009, 09:54 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by GDU View Post
how about stealing penner and signing hemmer to ridiculously good contracts?

how about signing souray and lubo

lowe did everything he could to help this team, including almost landing vanek, trying to sign a legit #1 centre....

the current group was headed in the rioght direction before the flu injuries etc...

i think before the season ends you will see this team show some serious promise
everyone talks about Hemsky's contract being soooooo good . Is it really?? Does the guy even have 100 career goals yet? Hemsky would be a 2nd line player on many teams.

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11-17-2009, 09:56 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by theranfordflop View Post
We have to remember just how horribly this team played last season. Last season it wasn't just mistakes. It was laziness, apathy, fear.

This year so far, the only thing holding these guys back is the mistakes. The last thing you can say about these guys is that they're lazy.

As I've said since the beginning, this team cannot be measured in wins and losses, not with where they're at right now. They need to be judged by how they perform on the ice. And right now they're putting it all out there. The skill will come as they get more comfortable with the effort it takes to win (something they never even thought to put out last year).

Now, I'm not saying a move or two wouldn't be nice. But even then, it'll take a while before this team develops a winning attitude.
Exactly. Record aside, this team is playing leaps and bounds better than last year. The results will come as soon as they're healthy again. Hopefully that's soon.

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Originally Posted by VincenzosOil View Post
The Oilers made the playoffs that year and that's the bottom line. Should there be an asterisk beside the Oilers surge that year -> Would not have made playoffs if not for Canucks implosion?

It seems absurd to me to read and hear that about the Oilers run. A twisted sort of logic like we as Oiler fans should be upset at the Canucks for allowing us to get within 1 game of the Stanley Cup and then the ensuing 3 years of shame.

You're right though about responsibility.Both coaches and players share responsibility for the mess that followed post 06.
I was pretty much at that point by the end of last year. We paid very heavily for that playoff run, which as great as it may have been, still came up a win short. Essentially each round they won cost us an additional write-off of a season down the road. If Vancouver doesn't tank even harder than we did to get Crawford fired, MacT is the one getting canned, and we probably don't endure three years of unwatchable garbage (and yes, I know it wasn't ALL MacT's fault). If they'd won the 16th game, I'd have taken another full decade of MacT and been more than happy with the trade off. But they didn't, and it's now extremely debatable in my mind whether or not the run was worth it. With Quinn in charge, I can now finally see some light at the end of the tunnel.

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Old
11-17-2009, 10:03 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by oil4life34 View Post
lightning in a bottle??????? The trades Lowe made at the deadline is what made that team a playoff team. Had MacT had that roster the whole season we wouldn't be talking bout the nucks handing us a playoff spot. Remember the three headed goalie monster all bloody season???? add roloson spacek samsonov and tarnstrom for 60+ games in 05-06. What would their record have been?? Probably better than 8th place.
Probably not. Do you not remember how AWFUL they played down the stretch, after all those guys were brought in? Just as bad as last season, if not worse. The only difference was the team we were fighting with for a playoff spot somehow managed to be even worse. That team had the talent to win the division for sure. They lacked goaltending, and also effort and motivation. They actually pulled their heads out of their arses for two months and played up to their potential once they had backed into a playoff spot that they didn't look like they even wanted. Even with a week to go in the season there were still calls for Lowe to gas MacT and take over himself as a last ditch desperation move.

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11-17-2009, 10:49 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
What about the other seven years? Quinn gets twenty games? You draw good conclusions.
Yeah exactly, people are already throwing the new coaching staff and Tambo under the bus because of what's happened over the last seven years, apparently people expected crap to turn into gold overnight.
Although it seems that the OP is blaming Lowe which i would agree with and is even more reason why it will take time to clean up the mess that he created.

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11-17-2009, 10:53 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by oil4life34 View Post
8-13 with new coach

I wonder who the real culprit was????

The guy who drug this team into the sewer gets a promotion.
Injuries? The Flu? Lee Harvey Oswald? And I'd gladly take looking dumb than have MacT behind the bench again.

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11-17-2009, 10:54 PM
  #117
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Your brilliant, hope you enjoy the mediocrity of the Edmonton Oilers this year and the next 20. Keep drinking the cool-aid.
It's Kool-Aid and what the hell does the last 20 years have to do with this year?

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11-17-2009, 11:05 PM
  #118
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If you are such a KLowe supporter then where are the results. It has not been as even as you suggest. You think Horcoff was just a lowlight, it is one of the bottom 10 worst contracts in the history of the NHL and will handcuff this team for years, letting Smyth go was not a good move, you think the Moreau-Pisani contracts were good. Penner's contract is only looking reasonable in year 3. MacT was right about Penner last year. We only had Pronger one year BTW.

To build a winner, you have to win more deals than you lose. It's not even close for KLowe.
What are you a 12 year old who had too much sugar? Or, just a Flames troll? You been on "leave Britney Spears alone" type rant since you got on this thread. Give it a rest ...


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11-17-2009, 11:17 PM
  #119
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Title doesn't make sense for what you said OP. I need an explanation.

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11-17-2009, 11:22 PM
  #120
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Yeah exactly, people are already throwing the new coaching staff and Tambo under the bus because of what's happened over the last seven years, apparently people expected crap to turn into gold overnight.
Although it seems that the OP is blaming Lowe which i would agree with and is even more reason why it will take time to clean up the mess that he created.
Idk, throwing them under a bus? I think you may be overstating your point here.

I haven't read or heard of anybody here or elsewhere claim that the present coaching staff is at fault. I think you are confusing the MacT defenders (myself included) with the Quinney detractors, of which I don't believe are throwing Quinney under the bus. I think you underestimate that groups ability to grasp the pretty simple concept of 20 games vs 7 yrs.

What you are saying, in essence, is that MacT had 7 yrs to turn crap into gold and now it's Quinn's kick at the chance to be a miracle worker. Certainly, 20 games is not nearly enough but if at the end of the season we are still MIA that speaks more to the roster than it does the coaching staff. Same crap, different pile, maybe more entertaining but still the same results.

So, if Quinn succeeds in getting this team into the P/O's, is he a better coach because he polished a turd? Or is he buying time with his coaching prowess until Tambo supplies him with an upgrade on the roster?

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11-17-2009, 11:24 PM
  #121
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I wanted MacT gone and I'm still glad he is no longer our coach.

He was not the sole problem last year, but him and the rest of the coaching staff simply wasn't getting it done. If you compare the way the team has played this year and last, I don't think there is anyone who would take last year's version over this year.

We can base MacT on his final few seasons here which were resounding failures.

For some reason some want to judge Quinn & Co. on 20 games. That doesn't make sense to me.

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11-17-2009, 11:50 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by AM View Post
I actually wasnt implying anything about you.

I actually liked Penners game last year, in as much as he did whatever he did on the ice.

But his preparation was poor and likely as his coach that can fill up your cup pretty quickly when the ass jack is getting you fired.

Just look what he did this year with better preparation.
I know you were not. I just think it is funny that I find myself defending my criticism of mactavish when in reality while I believe mactavish shared a part of the blame i do not believe it was the lion's share.

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11-17-2009, 11:55 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by AM View Post
I actually wasnt implying anything about you.

I actually liked Penners game last year, in as much as he did whatever he did on the ice.

But his preparation was poor and likely as his coach that can fill up your cup pretty quickly when the ass jack is getting you fired.

Just look what he did this year with better preparation.
I know you were not. I just think it is funny that I find myself defending my criticism of mactavish when in reality while I believe mactavish shared a part of the blame i do not believe it was the lion's share.

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11-17-2009, 11:58 PM
  #124
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Normally I wouldn't comment in threads like this but its becoming the norm around here to have really assinine threads

I will say this again and yes it is true so get it through your heads

Edmonton is not a city that will attract the top notch free agents or get players to drop NTC to come here. Pronger did not want to be here, Hossa did not want to sign here and Heatley did not want to come here.

If those 3 players are not convincing enough than nothing will convince that Edmonton is not a first chose city in the NHL

Secondly. When I first came here all heard was "We the fans were PROMISED by the management that the Oilers will spend near the cap and ALWAYS try to be competitive. No selling off players for draft picks etc.."

Forget about going after the big fish. Draft smartly, Develop your players in your system and roll them out year after year. Find the right free agents for your team. Roll 4 lines. Play tough defensively. Be a hard team to play against night after night

But they can't do that. I guarantee you the same people *****ing and moaning in this thread would be first ones to crucify whoever is running the team if they decided to do just that. "Oh no were back to being the farm team for the league!!. They promised us we would spend and bring in big names!".

You can't have your cake and eat it too.
We should have some kind of feature on this site like the opposite of the ignore feature . Let's call it a gold miner . I almost missed this gem of a post among all the whining and name calling . Thank you Mr Hallenback for summarizing the situation so concisely .

When I started reading this site in 04 most posters were exactly as you describe - paranoid that Edmonton was just a glorified farm team that could never spend to keep up with big boys . There were massive arguments about how cheap the EIG was . Some posters pointed out that there was no point in spending money just for the sake of spending it . They were ridiculed . The only way to see the Oilers rise to their rightful place was to get a cap and spend right up to it , or so we were told .

Fast forward five years and the Oilers have ( aside from a few magical months ) been at least as bad as they were pre-lockout . I'd say worse because they've played a much uglier brand of hockey imo . They spend money hand over fist and never get anywhere .

I would be in favor of the organization adopting the philosophy you suggest in the bolded part above . In fact its the direction I expected Tambellini and Quinn to take the team . So far Tambellini hasn't delivered much . Quinn I'd say has done pretty well considering the bad luck the team has had . I've seen some really exciting Oiler games this season , and that's a step in the right direction .


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Originally Posted by alphahelix View Post
Penner wouldn't be the player he is today if it wasn't for his time spent under MacT.
Wrong . The team could have had this version of Penner a lot sooner had MacT not let his room slip away and decided to try to right the ship by choosing a few convenient scapegoats . Penner has been a good player for three years now . I was a MacT supporter right up until he decided to take out his frustration on Penner . He showed himself to be a petty man . And yeah , Penner showed himself to be a guy willing to dog it when he thinks he's getting the shaft .

The only credit you can give MacT for Penner's play is the motivation Penner must be feeling to stick it to him .

Edited to add - those people who keep on insisting that Penner was fat are only making themselves look foolish . Fat is a relative term . It is ridiculous to suggest that poor conditioning and "fatness" for a professional hockey player - in the middle of an 82 game season - is the reason Penner had a bad year . It might explain slow start to a season , but Penner was hot out of the gate last year too . Face it . The hotdogs and the fatty jokes are just as o/t and silly as the hugging and humping talk about Stortini was last year .


Last edited by harpoon: 11-18-2009 at 12:13 AM.
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11-18-2009, 12:08 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by VincenzosOil View Post
The Oilers made the playoffs that year and that's the bottom line. Should there be an asterisk beside the Oilers surge that year -> Would not have made playoffs if not for Canucks implosion?

It seems absurd to me to read and hear that about the Oilers run. A twisted sort of logic like we as Oiler fans should be upset at the Canucks for allowing us to get within 1 game of the Stanley Cup and then the ensuing 3 years of shame.

You're right though about responsibility.Both coaches and players share responsibility for the mess that followed post 06.
First off please show where I was upset that the Canucks plugged up the drain in the toilet before we went down it? I was happy we made the playoffs and that run was great fun. Saying I am upset at the Canucks for that is putting words into my post (mouth) that were not there.

For me it is not the bottom line. Especially when people always shake their fingers around and say look at the 05-06 team. Look what MacT could do when handed a great team. That team was not all roses all the time. We did not run into the playoffs with the division title tucked under our arms and a top four finish in the conference.

But you would think that was the case the way some talk about it. We started the season early on with a 7 game losing streak. When the playoffs were on the line that team did not exactly grab things by the throat by any means. Even with all those great additions etc... I am not knocking it down but at the same time to point out only how wonderful they were in the playoffs and not even mention they came within a hair of not making the playoffs at all is also not very balanced. Maybe we should only judge that team by the first 15-20 games like the OP of this thread seems to be doing this this years team?

Well at least we agree on the last part.


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Originally Posted by oil4life34 View Post
lightning in a bottle??????? The trades Lowe made at the deadline is what made that team a playoff team. Had MacT had that roster the whole season we wouldn't be talking bout the nucks handing us a playoff spot. Remember the three headed goalie monster all bloody season???? add roloson spacek samsonov and tarnstrom for 60+ games in 05-06. What would their record have been?? Probably better than 8th place.
What would you call it? Did we have a record through the first 82 games that was similar to shorter sample size of the playoff run? I know you mention the big trades. But after the trade deadline there was what 20 games left? If memory serves I think we only won 8 or 9 of that final twenty games. That was with us on the outside looking in at a spot most of that time. Just a bit of perspective.

You tell people in the post I quoted above not to bring up injuries etc... and missing this player or that as the reason we did poorly. But then you seem to be doing the exact same thing in the opposite direction with the goalie situation and the deadline players (though let's not forget Spacek and Tarnstrom came earlier and were around a large chunk of the season). We would have done better if we had this player or that player...

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